Nerutically

Sorry, but other players still need to work up to the high levels and work with their characters.

It seems like every player with a high level character likes the benefits of the specific class. And if players would work together to trade off clericing for bosses and training or the sort, thieves being able to train without clerics would not be such a big issue.I still think clerics need to gain better experience from healing players.


Griping about thieves doesn't change the fact that other classes have been able to get to level 33+ when players worked hard enough. Some people are playing 1-alt harder and getting to high level, and it is not just thieves.
The more arguing over this topic I see, the more it seems that the real case here is heresay and jealousy. I'm not going to punish an entire class just because some players think they have it easy. That's just a comfort blanket for people who have not gotten their own characters trained as much.

Should Torches, Machetes, Dwarven Pickaxes, etc, etc, be damphered if the Dagger of the Winds is messed with?[/b]
Yes, because these are the real best training tools. DotWs is just like a mini-vampire blood potion to go with them. And this is very difficult to work with...
These 'easy' training items are not mentioned though---why? I think because players only want things that they themselves are not abusing to be issues or 'problems' with the game.

[b]Anyway, I've been looking into DotWs, like I said I would.
This wasn't a, "Hey, I'll get this changed in a few hours." type of issue. Please stop treating it like the case has been ignored. It simply takes time to understand what exactly is being done and if/how to dampher it.

Bolds.

#1 - IF players would trade off clericing.. As Angelus said what is the point of clerics and why would someone make and train one up if there is no need for it? As a cleric you miss out on the pking part of the game.. Why would someone train a cleric if you can just train a thief that can heal itself. pk. kill bosses and make gold so much easier?

#2 - Thieves don't have it easy? Are you really that blind? Thats why 1/2 of the lvl 31+'s are thieves... But it can't be because its easy to train them or the advantage they get when they are 31+... If it was as easy to train a diffrent class people would do it but its not so you can't say that its just because those players have worked harder that is bull.. Corey as an example arched a thief in 3 days game time.. Name another class you could do that on..

#3 - Torches etc... These are MULTI class based items almost any class can use these to train with unlike the dagger of the winds witch is why no one complains about these..

As I've said in number 2 you can play the hole "They've worked harder" card all you want.. Everyone knows a thief is far more easier to train then any other class as of right now.. I've posted in this thread the reasons why.. If you want to be blind to those facts so be it.

Sure a level 35 fighter might straigh own a lvl 35 thief who knows but it takes 2x as long to get the fighter there and it cost 2x as much so whats the effing point?

Broc had the right Idea easy train a thief to 35 make mass gold and sell it off and buy a cobalt.. Now he can train pretty much anything he wants with ease where ever he wants. Manda has been stocking gold sense time began and its well deserved, he'll shes even made enough gold to buy a cobalt level 2 thiefs to level 36 almost completly deck them out and still have enough to keep her score at 10k..

The old 2 top player's werent thieves and they did work harder then anyone else and thats why they were the top 2. Memphis/Freek.. When they were around people trained druids/mages but when they left they soon figured out that thieves had it easy and we'll own those 2 classes at the same level. So people stopped training those and got on the thief train.. Even Corey before he left trained one up for that fact and Achilles also bought or trained up a thief because of its advantage...

Character Look over..

Abc is a Dwarf Archmaster Beserker..

Character /who..

Abc Dwarf Archmaster Slayer.

Thieves compared to other classes to train..

Mage - Has to stay pretty close to a pub or has to buy mana every 5 minuets, As gaddy said above they could hit hit invis but thats what 60 mana evey time stam comes back arch mage has 390-420 avg thats 6-7 stam regens and they are already through 1 bar of mp and 1 advanced mana crystal = 1 stam regen. A Mage would go broke from buying mana in order to train like that.. Makes them easy to find and pk

Druid - As for hit hit camo same bit would go broke buying mana.. However a druid can camo run some where and morph and fight monsters but then you have to use pots... Not as easy to find and pk but can be done.

Fighter - Pots always.. Can follow a fighter from the time he leaves town and pk

Zerk - Pots every 3 minutes... Same as fighter to pk

Paladin - Can pretty much do what he pleases only problem with him is his terrible hit rate/dmg and cant do much against undead with 60-65 dmg with aid.. Same as fighter/zerk to pk

Cleric - 100+ Damage to undead things pretty easy to train just mana but you usually make the gold training a cleric to buy it with that problems with clerics are the few amounts of training spots you have IT, rax, and 2nd floor zeum all of witch are easily scanned by pkers... Same as ^^ to pk.

Thief - usually swamps from 1-25 in a matter of no time at all at 25 comes the dotw then they can do two things.. Go sit covert and click small snakes/spiders etc all day... Or grab the dotw stock up on food/water and go to keylike places or places pretty far out of the norm and assassinate however many times it takes covert move on bank all the gold go buy more food and water and repeat... They covert and leave town and then either are still covert killing things or in distant places making them hard to find and pk.


Yes Lethal_Dose/Devotchka have insane game times and yes they do deserve there level but you can't use them as you have above.. They have had those crits sense 1a opend more then a year ago... However other people have sold out of there classes to pick up a thief do to the fact that they bank almost 100% of the gold they make, they are not hard to train as they can do it secretly or out of the norm (more a pk issue here), and ofcourse in the end they are a good pkers/boss killers that you can do without a cleric..

As for Piggy/Achilles/God_Of_Death.. And all the other high exp crits that are not a thief... All these were also trained from almost the begging of 1a and these have the same game times and levels (almost) But now there are lvl 33-34 thieves with 1/2 of those crits game times and 1-2 levels below them? Game time doesnt prove much as Angelus said I can have a level 30 and never train it again and have 128 days game time doesnt mean that its hard to train that character just means when im on i just sit and talk or pk witch is half of Devotchka's/Lethal's game time..

Yes hitting monsters and not coming out is an issue but for thieves to click those without failing and showing themselves/take damage they are usually low pod monsters so that justifys its self not .. As for dotw they can take those to 70-80 pod monsters and just sit and fight until its dead without going under 80% of health. And when they do fail on those low pod monsters and "take a nick" the dotw gives it right back.


Those were the last words from me on this topic as you've said you will look into changing the spawn/dotw issues.

I agree that doing more damage to undead things is an easy way to make paladins better without having to do alot of work.. Also this doesn't have to increase and of the pallys current skills to make them "Overpowerd".

Depurate Undead - Pally Version please!

^^ Agree with everything except mages are now one of the weaker classes.. Thats bs. Mages still rule supreme over all the other classes except thieves and zerks.

However, thieves are a great pvp class and a great pvm class because of the topic. Dotw wouldn't be so much of a problem if it wasn't for that like you have said before a thief just trains with a dotw/farms gold and then switches to an ED when wants to pk.

Witch leads us to the point where either the dotw needs changing or the thieves pvp abilites. Because for a class to rule high in both catagories is why there is no real reason for anyone to train anything else.