36 replies to this topic

[Adultery]

i wanna get the player basis opinion on this...


seeing that Clerics and Druids are the only two classes that get jippted with 7 stam... why not give them 5 stam regain instead of 4...

being one of the two clerics with 7 stam i feel massivly screwed over... ive put nearly a years worth of work in to still have the same stam regain as i did 6 months ago... why continue to play the class? (holy might is also the same as before)

im fairly sure Druids feel the same... for the very few that actually made it to 37...


I dont mean to sound emo... tho seriously... whats up with that?

[Trendkill]

Legendary clerics and druids should have a 5 stamina regain....after all your suppose to be legendary o0

[Adultery]

just because a class is easy to train doesnt mean it should be penalized for it sir... zerks are cake with a cobalt... so should we remove vamp from cobalt or lower zerk stam? no... because it doesnt make the game enjoyable for people...

[Woodstock]

give em something like 10-20 bonus health at 40 and call it a day.

[Cruxis]

Clerics have a regain spell, they don't need more stamina, especially for one that lasts so long and improves dodging, compared to haste.

Druids..I could actually see using another stam regain, but not for their base, it'd have to be a spell, pretty much just like haste. It should be short, not yeilding too much of a bonus when training due to the stam cost of casting, and it should be mana exspensive, as they don't really use mana to attack often. This would make it more so being for PvP, where I feel they lack in the "kill you instantly before I kill you instantly" department. They are about survivability though, and may outlast in a duel, and may not have a need for a "kill you instantly" scheme like the other classes when it comes to PvP. They do seem to train kinda slow, but any class that 3stam regain at 31+ is gonna seem slow, they get wicked better at lvl 33.

In that sense, mages haste time should be raised to be more like HM, but they also got another stamina.
I don't much like the thought of a mage having 8 stamina at 40, and would perfer they went back to 7stam and have their haste time upped, but eh, just my bias opinion.

Edit #246504
Rick, by the way your post is worded, I feel you didn't know 7stam would continue to yield 4 regain, yes? Here's the formula (may not be correct but hasn't failed me yet!) X/2+1, rounded down. It could also just be every 2 stamina gain, you get a regain, which..would actually fit with the formula, the rounding down accounting for the first 2 stam giving 2 regains.
Math is fun

Edited by Cruxis, 24 April 2012 - 08:07 AM.

[Apocalypto]

I kind of agree with a haste spell for druid.

/t terron Zerkers are just as easy and get way more stamina. And are retarded player vs player. Wouldnt cause anything to be unbalanced. And druids dont hit solid 100+ at all.

[Trendkill]

Wish my druid hit solid 100+ every stam. lol

[Trendkill]

Ok your bit about the average 94.5 damage per stam on Bandit leader...

Wasn't your lvl 35 druid an elf? Doesn't elves get a damage bonus in forests? Doesn't druids get a damage bonus in forests? I bet hitting that 130+ was witha cobalt? Of course an elf druid would pwn Bandit leader.

Instead of new spells/skills just give them another stam at 40 and a 5 stamina regain. I mean who is going to level a druid or a cleric to 40 when they are just going to keep that 4 stamina regain when they can have that at 37? If they had a 5 stamina regain at LEGENDARY maybe it would spark interest in people training druids/clerics to 40. After all, arent you suppose to be Legendary? Here take my legendary 4 stamina to your face!

Edited by Trendkill, 24 April 2012 - 05:18 PM.

[oldfart]

Clerics do not need 8 stamina. Having a 6 stamina regen is way too powerful for what clerics are already capable of.

[Trendkill]

In fact here is some rounds on Bandit Leader with Justice when I hit full round...with Cobalt...

You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 87 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 48 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 47 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 98 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 75 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 77 points of damage.

Average: 72 Damage

You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 58 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 98 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 103 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 96 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 54 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 110 points of damage.

Average: 86.5 Damage

You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 69 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 60 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 92 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 85 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 47 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 90 points of damage.

Average: 73.8 Damage

You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 88 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 64 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 106 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 65 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 99 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 67 points of damage.

Average: 81.5 Damage

You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 62 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 79 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 75 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 108 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 72 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 62 points of damage.

Average: 76.3 Damage

You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 106 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 109 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 66 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 82 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 58 points of damage.
You attacked a Bandit Leader with a Jaws for 100 points of damage.

Average: 86.8 Damage

Total average of those full 6 stamina rounds= 79.48 Damage.

Just give clerics/druids 5 stamina regain! They deserve it!

[Adultery]

Clerics do not need 8 stamina. Having a 6 stamina regen is way too powerful for what clerics are already capable of.

what are clerics and druids capable of? hitting the 7 stam mark and never advancing? why continue to play the class? literally nothing happens after hitting that mark...

[Trendkill]

4 stamina regain at lvl 40 is rediculous. They are supposed to be legendary for fk sake. Give them 5 stam regain at lvl 40. How is that unreasonable? Yes druids absorb and dodge alot as they are meant to be with the armor spells. No they do not average 94.5 damage.

[Freek]

Actually druids should get a haste or 8th stam at 40.

Since fighters now have crit there is no reason why a druid shouldn't have a form of 5 stam regen.

Druids the best tanks? Maybe if this was WoW and they "pulled aggro". Most high end mobs these days either ignore armor or still do high damage. HP? Low compared to that of a Zerk/Fighter. Paladins make better tanks. They can dodge and heal all day.

As for PvP whats the ac gonna protect the druid from? Pally and Ranger shots? It sure isn't going to protect from Beams, Crits, Smites or Stormwraths.


Clerics already do and are a support class. Get over it.

[Cruxis]

Druids are good tanks, but yeah..without aggro, it really isn't noticable in parties, but at that point, they usually get spelled for super damage with a great hit rate.

Like paladins, I can understand druids lower average rounds being yucky, the pod system itself makes higher damage/healing train easier. I don't think that merits more power through stamina, they have great defense.

I'd still support a haste spell (maybe lasting 10 seconds longer than haste) though, something not too great, but helpful.

I'd also support a 25+ druid area that has slightly higher pod than the average stuff throughout the rest of the realm (90-120).
^Maybe paladins too.

[Woodstock]

Fix thieves and stop crying about classes that are good in almost any given situation.

lol 154 dmg assassinates on 4 stam with a cobalt - edit - on a 35 dwarf thief.

Also, im sure when more players hit that legendary level 40, we can see how things are and balance from there.

Edited by Woodstock, 25 April 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[Adultery]

heres my largest complaint or argument for all this on a the cleric side of things...


people are saying that holy might is OP or would be if a cleric got 5 stam regain with 7 stam instead of 4... however what you fail to realize is that at ever level leading to 37 HM is -1 of stam at all times... tho when you reach that 1 level higher your -2...

secondly... not many clerics actually train with holy might... i never once used it for training and leveled faster then john and everyone else for that matter... (that wasnt a stab at john, just a fact) and as you probably know most of my training was in rax... 21k demonic soldier kills proves that. so no where near OP POD!


if its simply the pvp factor of things that seems to throw ppl out of whack then rest assured! clerics cant pvp! lol 24 wis and i still only hit 25-26's with Wrath of the gods and if im lucky a solid 40 with a cobalt and hance with holy might up lol

Dwarfs do have a larger advantage for pvp cause of the 21 str and high HP, however they suck at healing and have low dex.



List of class's a cleric can take pvp...



Zerk - without a cobalt (but EVERYONE AND THEIRE GRANDMA OWNS A COBALT) your still likely to get clicked
thief - also without a cobalt.
fighter - you guessed it... without a cobalt...
mage - that ones fair and square
Ranger - thats iffy... if the ranger has iboc... youll likely have an issue


argue with that all you want. its simple facts. tried tested and true.

[Sandy]

I agree that clerics should either: Get another stam Or get another Stam Regen. What is the point in getting to 40? Nothing to look forward to past 37.



And Shud Up Piddy u Hater

[Woodstock]

Again, get to 40 and we can talk about balance at 40. There isnt anything to compare since theres only 2 level 40s atm. And as it stands, piddy laid out the arguement against more stamina pretty well. Also the pvp argument, on a pure healing class, is bunk. No one can pvp on a pvp game in a pure heal spec viably. You'd need to bust out all the dps modifiers to make it happen, and i doubt you are willing to bust out str mods to make your cleric a hitter. Even then, you still shouldnt compare to say.. a paladin. The only class busting out 150+ stamina over 35 is crying to be even more ahead of the pack in dmg/exp per dmg?

Get to 40, or wait until someone else does... then lets talk balance. What if your cleric is healing for 170+? It wont need 8 stam then either. Like i said- wait.

Edited by Woodstock, 26 April 2012 - 05:02 AM.

[oldfart]

pretty sure rick u didnt get to 37 before i did, so idk how u say u trained faster. i dont use hm either while training, waste of mana tbh. i got the exp and stopped playing for the most part. and if you wanna do more damage, get a cleric with better str. i can do 76 damage with a 21 base weapon and with being able to heal along with that, i dont see any need for more stamina. what do i have to look forward to getting to 40? 2 more added onto my hances seems pretty awesome to me, not to mention 530+hp...again ill state, clerics dont need an 8th stam. Milagros is the only character i play and train and has been that way for a couple years now it has performed more than adequate against pve and pvp. there is no need to improve clerics any further.

[Adultery]

pretty sure rick u didnt get to 37 before i did, so idk how u say u trained faster. i dont use hm either while training, waste of mana tbh. i got the exp and stopped playing for the most part. and if you wanna do more damage, get a cleric with better str. i can do 76 damage with a 21 base weapon and with being able to heal along with that, i dont see any need for more stamina. what do i have to look forward to getting to 40? 2 more added onto my hances seems pretty awesome to me, not to mention 530+hp...again ill state, clerics dont need an 8th stam. Milagros is the only character i play and train and has been that way for a couple years now it has performed more than adequate against pve and pvp. there is no need to improve clerics any further.

first off i destroyed you to 37. you may have got there first. but you were GM when i was lvl 30... look at the game time on both crits. (anyway not a pissing contest atm)
your trying to say that 1 hance is worth the 9 mill gold? and same stam/stam regain? my friend you are indeed nutso... enjoy the long and painful ride lol

[oldfart]

idk man look at this way...at lvl 40 ill be hitting 102max with GeS...5 stam regen being able to hit that hard and heal...i can make it work lol. dont get me wrong ill take another stam with open robes, but im perfectly fine with the way it is now.

[Adultery]

i dont want the world for druids/clerics


for druids i would simply like to see some form of low end haste spell


and for clerics the -1 from full stam that we got the entire way till 37

Edited by Adultery, 26 April 2012 - 09:50 PM.

[Freek]

1st.

What each class can do at 40 =/= balance..

Balance is a BALANCE of the power of the class at 40 vs how HARD the journey is and countless other factors. If you made 2 level 40's out of thin air and the one beat the other no matter what does not mean that one is OP. The reason why mages ROCKED pvp was because they cost the most to train, had limited areas and were heavily reliant on mana.




2nd.

Rick you might of beat John in game time but thats because you played when the server was all hipsters and everyone held hands, any one can 40 anything in minimum time these days because everyone is holding hands.




3rd.

Clerics actually do have something to look forward to after 37. Clerics enhance for more based on levels, not to mention they will have more hp and a wider mana pool.

[Adultery]

1st.

What each class can do at 40 =/= balance..

Balance is a BALANCE of the power of the class at 40 vs how HARD the journey is and countless other factors. If you made 2 level 40's out of thin air and the one beat the other no matter what does not mean that one is OP. The reason why mages ROCKED pvp was because they cost the most to train, had limited areas and were heavily reliant on mana.




2nd.

Rick you might of beat John in game time but thats because you played when the server was all hipsters and everyone held hands, any one can 40 anything in minimum time these days because everyone is holding hands.




3rd.

Clerics actually do have something to look forward to after 37. Clerics enhance for more based on levels, not to mention they will have more hp and a wider mana pool.

seeing that there will likely never be a lvl 40 of every class because of the time it takes to put in and the lvling costs the subject of balance is out of the picture.



1st. mages are good at pvp... if your a low wis class and or not maxed out. however you forget that mages have it cake after they get beam. so I really dont get your comment. (and yes ive arched a few and 31+ one)


2nd. yes you are correct, john, sarah and a few others had it alot harder. I wont deny that or argue.

3rd. ill break the hance thing down for you so that you can understand. now the increase of hance is simple 1 str every 3 levels roughly. (it may differ per class) and it may effect class's differently at different levels. however thats the general rule. now at 37 that leaves 3 levels till 40. which means 1 str hance increase at max level = total leveling costs to about 9 million more gold for 1 str.


i fail to see the value in the continuation to level... hp... mp... are those things factors after 400 hp on a cleric/druid/hling pally/ranger?


and personally i dont even know why your commenting on this forum thread... you got caught auto training... you dont have an opinion on nightmist anymore. thanks for stopping by tho!

[Freek]

That's funny. Apparently I can't have opinions anymore but can still play the game.



But yeah, Mages are cake once they get beam? Maybe now (because again everyone is hipsters so if you want to train a mage now is the time to do it. Just sit in hedges or dessy all day and sing kumbaya)

And by all means, If you don't think level 40 is worth it. Don't spend the gold to get 40. Stay 37 and save your useless millions.

If anything you should be happy clerics "max out at 37" that way you don't have to worry about spending 9m on "useless levels" and making all that exp for no reason.

Edited by Freek, 27 April 2012 - 01:40 PM.

[Wozlan]

Just remove the stoneform spell line from druids and give them same stamina table as mages.

They would have some lower armor and get damaged more but still have a goal and do more damage at level 40 with and extra stam.

If staff does not want to do any stamina changes for the classes the can instead consider giving each class an unique skill with a cooldown timer when reaching level 40.
A few examples could be:

Paladin:

Immunity Undead (skill works 1 min and can first be used 15-20 min later when activated)
For 1 min the paldin won't take damage from the undead monsters on square, will still take damage from non undead monsters.



Ranger: Stealth (skill works 1-2 min and cool down is 20-30 min)

When Stealth is activated ranger can enter squares unseen like thieves cover, mages invised or druids camoed until stealth timer runs out.



Mage: Either a skill to conservate mana or a skill like pacis teleport to local.



People can come out with ideas for unique Legendary skills for each class and if ideas are good staff can consider it.

[Adultery]

funny thing that is. you get caught auto training. deleted etc etc then make some tear jerking post on the leaveing returning thread saying more less FuK you nightmist lol meanwhile the only 1 clannie of yours that was horrified by all of this was the one that wanted your floppy 4 incher... now hows that for being a trolllolllolll! hows your pot habbit treating you by the way? still in moms house? likely.



secondly. yes thank god they max out at 37. that way i can completely quit playing a cleric and do something else like damage for once.



this topic still has no place for you. so do me a favore old chap and piss off

[Gnarkill]

It has no place for me either, but I am bored at work reading and I wanted to say that I really like the idea of unique level 40 spells for each class. Thats actually a really cool idea reguardless of the stam issue.

and come on Rick! cheap shot! don't blame pot for his problems some of us that smoke own our own house, car and business.

[Woodstock]

and come on Rick! cheap shot! don't blame pot for his problems some of us that smoke own our own house, car and business.

[Cruxis]

I don't get the HM not being OP because of not regaining full stam, i.e. regaining -1 from full stam and -2 at 37.

Of..course? It's a +1 to regain, not make you regain full, just because at 4stam, it brings your 3 regain to full stam, it shouldn't hold true that way for each stamina gain. That would basically make any stamina gain for a cleric, a regain gain as well, truely OP.

Clerics don't pvp? Clerics can rape anying that doesn't kill it instantly before it gets spells off, or can drain its mana. i.e., the only thing that can possibly beat a competent cleric is, a hawk talon druid or a paladin. If you lose to anything else, then sorry, you're either not a competent user, or just got unluckily smited/assassinated.

As for both of you guys leveling speeds, I laugh that you guys even try and compare using HM vs not using HM between 2 human entities. There will be times when you're not training as efficiently as possible (healing players, lower pod, ect), or just sitting. I can assure you that the cost of casting HM 2 or 3 times per bar, will save you only about 12 heals, which (not counting the mana of using HM) takes an extra 2 minute atleast, to run out. In that 2 minutes, most people could of easily replaced mana and continued HM training. Especially if you have a cheap refresh less than 10 seconds away (demonic soldiers), not using HM is just rediculous. Rick may have trained faster (excuse me, I meant more) than John, but Rick could've easily gone much faster.

Wasn't this about druids?

Edited by Cruxis, 27 April 2012 - 07:42 PM.