41 replies to this topic

[vex]

Instead of raising the price to make Unknown brew #124470 I think they should just make the colliseum so you cant throw things onto the squares much like the clan houses, this may hurt some and help others but either way i think its a good solution

[katja]

i agree, almost seems like cheating to win. i didn't even know that was possible. i'm for the change.

[deadman]

If we can't throw onto the monsters square and are forced to go up there with just an inventory on how many people we got to go with us(usually 9-10) we will more than likely die. The throwing is necessary and the price of the brew is fine as well.

[Sausage]

Supported. 100%

[deadman]

The funny thing is that the 3 that support it don't play/barely play at all and log on to chat on the 1alt server so they know barely anything about what we have to do over here just to level.

[Black Prince]

I agree, being able to stockpile potions on a boss square means i could go solo every boss ingame as long as i threw enough potions onto the square before hand. I mean, shoot, why not just make me staff so i can 1 hit kill all the bosses and save time. its the same idea. What do 1 hit kills and 1million potions chilling on a boss square have in common? They both take NO SKILL! Its cheating, its cheap, and its pathetic. Gladly pwnt 1a. Supported

[joanna]

ive said this ever since it happened, especially on the multi server where there is no problem with people chucking 700-800 124470's into the arenas. on nm multi the cheap 124470's allowed people to use parties other than 2-4 clerics+16-18 rangers/zerks economically.

when they were 5 gold it allowed players other than those that were very rich to experiment with parties consisting of just thieves, druids, fighters, rangers.... and using about as much gold outlay as a cleric+hitters standard party.

heres the math
124470's (5 gold for 100 hp) - 0.05 gold per point of HP
Lodestones (250 gold for 135mp) - assuming a decent cleric , works out at 0.07 gold per point of HP

So both are similar in terms of overall cost per point of HP

[deadman]

For the main players, stockpiling brews is the same way you guys stockpile alts, being this is the 1alt we are forced to have people help from our clan/friends. With this being said if we can get only 9-10 ppl to kill something such as Gristle if we go with only the inventory of brews we take in without throwing we will not survive.

You can sit there and say well get more people, but not everyone has the same kind of character as someone else, is on at the same time, not everyone has an extra of that class to loan out to others, and the enemy clans would not want to help their enemy level.

The current system is just fine we need the extra brews to be able to kill, and we cooperate within our clans and with our friends to kill the bosses over here we can not just load up our alts and go kill whatever we want solo.

[katja]

For the main players, stockpiling brews is the same way you guys stockpile alts

the only flaw i see in that arguement is; on main, there is a limit to how many alts one person can use. there is no limit to how many pots you can throw.

[vex]

You say that stockpiling brews is like stockpiling alts well with enough brews you wont need another player to help you in the colliseum so you can just solo it anyway. where the cooperation that the server was supposed to bring?

[Autek]

You have to have enough people to overcome the self healing of a lot of bosses. . . It would be impossible to solo them with 10000000000000000x brews. . . lawl

[Autek]

Also, cooperation is EVERYWHERE on 1a . . . Regardless of clan size, big or small. Sometimes you go for weeks without leveling. Hell, I've been capped for 3 weeks now, but that's just fine. I prefer the challenge of the 1a server.

[joanna]

Self healing? It dosnt matter how mant brews you have, if a monster can outheal your party, you will never kill it however many brews you bring.

My main issue here is how the chosen method to defeat bosses in 1a (ie stockpiling brews) has had an effect on the multi server (ie raising the cost of brews). On Multi the brews brought an extra dimension of play, would anyone other than the super-rich ever try to get to and kill TK with just thieves mages and rangers (NO healers) without the 5gp brews? Knowing that they would probably fail?

Also, you say you cannot kill the colisseum bosses without using stockpiled brews.

Yes you can.

A Jaguar Potion costs 1 mill

A CJ (needed to level druids in multi) costs around 2.5 mill. A BoT costs around 1.5 mill

So the Jag Pot, which is an almost assured kill, is still cheaper than the multi equivilants


EDIT
------
(quote from Autek) Also, cooperation is EVERYWHERE on 1a

Really?

The last 10 times ive logged onto nm1a, ive not had so much as a hello from people online. NM multi, its as good as assured at least 2 people will emote-abuse me at any time of day

Edited by joanna, 19 March 2008 - 03:16 AM.

[Devotchka]

These arguements make no sense..
There is no way one person can solo a token boss on 1 alt, you cannot go in the square with alot of brews on the ground for you would lag and die anyway. We need the few brews we can throw up there, and there is also a limit to how many people we can take into the coli bosses on 1 alt as well. Here's my thing, why suggest something like this on 1 alt when you never have experienced it on 1 alt nor play it, it is alot different over here.
Try it and see, before posting next time.

[Walt]

Let me just say that there is a limit that a square can handle without taking the chance of a lag out. It is around 440-480, depending on the number of characters on the same square.
So your argument of throwing endless numbers of brews/pots is non existent. Most of the time the party we take to coli bosses as Gristle/Demilich now only need around an extra 40-50 brews tossed because of higher level characters with more stamina.

The only reason mass numbers of brews/pots are tossed is it saves a bit of time when you are doing lets say, 3-10 of the same Coli Boss. Load up on enough brews, take the gold you need, and whaola, you saved about 45 minutes of game time.

Now granted, I think some of the colisium Bosses can be dropped without any brews being tossed because of the sheer numbers we have in Pande. If this change is implamented, it will hurt the much smaller clans who do not have the numbers to do such bosses. So if this happens, I would think it would cause more people to stop playing. Not like the two servers aren't strained enough with its small playerbass as it is now.

On a side note, why is it that people who mostly play main are the ones pushing so hard for this change? We even have one or two people who have publicly stated that they hate Nightmist alltogether and want to try to hinder other peoples sucess.

Main has its advantages. 1 alt also has its advantages. Both servers are played a bit differently. That is why there are two completely different versions to chose from.

The argument started out saying why has the unkown brew price been changes. Why did you not make this ardument many month ago when it was first changed? If you do not like the way 1alt is run, then play main where you can self rely and be nonsociable if you like.

[vex]

The argument started out saying why has the unkown brew price been changes. Why did you not make this ardument many month ago when it was first changed? If you do not like the way 1alt is run, then play main where you can self rely and be nonsociable if you like.

Why you ask? well lets start with the fact that while i was in pande i could never get the help i needed to train my low lvl crits it seems that the cooperation of 1a only falls with those who have high lvl crits i went to get some brews and the price had gone up and i couldnt afford to get them so i couldnt afford to train, and to top it all off i try to express myself and get booted and slapped on the kos list such love for a person like that should only be found in a graveyard

[joanna]

On a side note, why is it that people who mostly play main are the ones pushing so hard for this change? We even have one or two people who have publicly stated that they hate Nightmist alltogether and want to try to hinder other peoples sucess.

Because it screwed up people on the NM main server who arnt that rich and the brews brought them something new. If the brews were brought back, blocked from been thrown to coloseeum squares, and the boss monsters changed so a sensible party could kill them without extra pots would you agree?

[Walt]

On Multi the brews brought an extra dimension of play, would anyone other than the super-rich ever try to get to and kill TK with just thieves mages and rangers (NO healers) without the 5gp brews? Knowing that they would probably fail?

Which raised the price on the unknown brews anyway?

Hopefully not the one who participated in the fighter boss and waiting till they got 4 tokens to change it

So 6 months later the cost of increased brews is brought up and is now being challenged?
It makes no sense to me. If you are so adament in your argument, you would have made it within days of the change, not 6 months later

[deadman]

That will never happen, and if the prices got changed on main then fight for them to be put back to where they were on MAIN. Don't try to mess with a server you barely know anything about.

As for Doug just because you did not get helped at some point doesn't mean that no one does that is not a high level or whatever. You could have just picked a bad time to ask I see everyone helping others out in Pande that is what our clan is about. You got removed for trying to make us agree to unecessary changes on a server you barely play. If you play main focus on getting that better for yourself, not trying to make those of us that play 1alt have it harder.

[«¤ºxXl3úÐXxº¤»]

To mention once again the argument is present by players who play main. Second you claim that people with out money are being effected, yet the people i see posting i do believe have a good chunk of change. So you do not fit into the bracket of 1a, or of being poor on main, also as walt mentioned you could have mentioned this months ago...

There is cooperation in 1alt. Doug i believe i even gave you a character. As for not having money to buy brews, well hell you don't get to start out with money for a blade of time either. Hit and run, buy advanced healing potions, and rough it out like any other noob. You say there is no skill or challenge but it seems to me, that you're wanting hand outs and very cheap things so it's not so hard?

[joanna]

I did ask for the price to be put back straight away on main, and at the time Trevayne agreed with me, but it was basically us against all the NM1a crew.

Look through the forums, search for '124470' if you want proof.

This is been brought up now coz we have found several old-skool 124470 users in the same place.

[deadman]

Good then attempt to get the brew price changed for main only not try and mess with the status quo on 1 alt.

[vex]

I appreciate that you gave me a character to use and Tony if logging on when theres 13 clannies online and everyone of them asking what they can do is a bad time to ask for help training then whats a good time? a trip to TK perhaps where my low lvl druid will be sure to die? so thnx for goin off topic on this now get back to the issue at hand if your still gonna whine about a suggestion

[deadman]

Seems your suggestion got shot down by those that actually play 1 alt, only ones that supported are those that hate 1 alt or that barely play at all. So the work here is done.

[Walt]

The argument started out saying why has the unkown brew price been changes. Why did you not make this ardument many month ago when it was first changed? If you do not like the way 1alt is run, then play main where you can self rely and be nonsociable if you like.

Why you ask? well lets start with the fact that while i was in pande i could never get the help i needed to train my low lvl crits it seems that the cooperation of 1a only falls with those who have high lvl crits

As I see in clan chat all the time, most people do well enough on their own training. The only time ppl really group together to train is when we go bossing. Maybe you should get a better work ethic?
No one else seemed to have trouble raising a crit from lvl 1 with help training. Main seems to be the best place for players who need help all the time.

[vex]

If you play main focus on getting that better for yourself, not trying to make those of us that play 1alt have it harder.

You chose to have it harder on 1a so why are you now shooting down the idea of keeping it harder and not making it easier?

[Walt]

I would have no problem if the cost of Brews went back to 5gp on Main. It would no effect me in the least. I am all for main to be more productive and having more ppl play, since 1a is not for everyone.

So yes, I support main brews going back to costing 5 gold each.

[Sausage]

I didn't see the 1a part. I guess I don't know/care what should happen.

Seems only fair that you shouldn't be able to beat him by throwing in pots. If you can't beat him, step your game up. Cobalt Bow, DotW on grandmasters with pots could do work.

But anyway. I didn't take the time to read all the arguments. So.. word.

Edit: And for those of you saying cobalt bow? what are you crazy?. No, I'm not. It's a colliseum boss not DG. It should be a pain in the ass and take a whole lot of working towards to be beaten. And on that note, I prolly won't post any more on this topic.

Edited by Sausage, 19 March 2008 - 04:19 AM.

[deadman]

Yeah I want to see you come on 1alt and get a cobalt bow I really do... And yeah not make 1alt harder for us meaning that 1alt is good the way it is in the aspect you are trying to force a change in. It is unecessary change. I also would support 5g brews on multi being that I don't care about that server and don't play. Go make changes on your server not on the 1alt side you don't even play.

[joanna]

I dont 'hate' 1a, i used to play it, just i think its been ruined by certain cliques of people that manipulate clan rules to make sure everyone helps but only the highest levels get the drops (ive been in 5 different top-3-at-time clans and its been same every time). And yes, i was part of the first ever party to do the '500 brews' trick. And yes i thought it was a rather cheesy way to level a crit.

And yes, when the change was made i was one of the first to suggest it was unfair on lots of nm multi players (ie those that were not filthy rich)

As for the 'cliquyness' of the nm1a clans, i think the comment i made earlier about how i can log onto nm1a and people who ive known for ages on nm main would refuse to even acknowlege me sums it up.......

But i believe a lot of here are fighting for the same thing. Leaving nm1a as it is and restoring nm multi to 5gp/brew would be a good compromise for both the 1A and the multi players