26 replies to this topic

[Woodstock]

Ok this is a post to the 3 or 4 people i see constantly complaining about mages and the few that also looked forward to my long winded explanation on how/why mages spells are fine.

To start, you have the choice of what race you roll, and you have the choice picking its strengths and weaknesses. Some races excel at some aspects yet are rather shabby in others. In essence, you rolled that character for a different purpose than the one you are complaining about. Lets start the racial breakdown.

Humans:
Will be all around balanced for all use in the game, at level 30 they arent likely to be rounded by mages or fighters and also have a decent hit rate with 19 dexterity.

Halflings:
Will excel in hit frequency and dodging but drop a little in the hit point total, strength, and magic resistance, making them easier to kill by magic users. They have an armor bonus that also helps against melee.

Elves:
Will excel in healing, magic damage, and magic resistance but are a bit more vulnerable to melee attacking and have a lower hit rate and strength.

Half-Elves:
While being a cross-breed between a human and an elf, they take a little from both, they have slightly higher magic damage and healing than a human and slightly less magic resistance and hit points than an elf. They excel a little over an elf in melee and a little over a human in magic.

Dwarves:
Will hit a good bit harder than any other race but not as frequent. Melee has a good chance to hit a dwarf as well due to the lower dexterity. They also have higher hit points than most so can afford the loss in dexterity and wisdom. Magic users will do more damage them as well, but again, the HP makes up for it. They dont make the greatest healers unless you are looking to soak up damage.

Gnomes:
Will hit weaker than anyone in melee but as hard as anyone else in magic. They also have a higher dodge rate and hit frequency than most as well, and can handle themselves decently against magic. they are roughly below average healers and dont get the most hp or mp either.

Half-Orcs:
Hardest hitting but lowest frequency to hit in the game, to go along with the lowest dodge rate, but in turn they have the highest hp to take the damage given out. They also have a minor armor bonus to make up for some of the melee they will likely take.

As you can see, Its your choice what kinda of character you want to make, so if you choose a race that isnt hot against mages, chances are, a mage will rip you apart. Same goes for a race that is weak against melee, a fighter or a zerk will have at you just as well. For the most part, many of the classes are fairly balanced bar a few tweaks that arent so obvious. By weakening anything in any one class will require full restructuring of the class to make up for what you take away.

And for the record, this is directed to the few people i see complaining about mages being overpowered, lets have a look at reasons given:

A mage's beam does around 57-60 damage on 19 wisdom characters. At archmaster (level 30) this is enough to drop most halflings, some low hp elves, most gnomes, and the occasional human or half elf. the time it takes to level to the required level for the best spell is strenuous and time consuming. Also keep in mind that mages have the lowest hit points and lowest armor base. Even a spelled mage without Aura of Protection still has rather low armor.

Some people have suggested making beam as weak as stormwrath. Why though? if that is done, a mage will be nothing short of a nerfed druid. Druids have melee counterparts in morphed forms, higher hp, higher base AND spelled armor, better hit rates, and they recieve stormwrath at level 10 rather than level 25. Weakening a mage's beam is not the answer to it, and nor does its strength make them overpowered.

What can a mage's beam actually drop? Any character below level 25 bar a zerk or some fighters can be dropped by 1 round of a level 26+ mage. That seems rather reasonable seeing they are lower level and it is the top mage spell, doesnt it? At level 30 only roughly half the total archmasters can be dropped in one round by a perfect round of beam. That doesnt happen all that often, and when it does, its more or less due to the race of the character, not the strenght of the spell being used against you.

Mages are not overpowered, and if you really think so, then roll one, by all means, and post your comments.

EDIT: also take into consideration a mage's uselessness in pvm. mages run out of mana far too fast and drain the group far more rapidly than any other class.

Edited by Woodstock, 16 April 2007 - 04:00 PM.

[Outlaw]

meh, all i can say is, if you think there overpowered, then roll one, and train it...mages i find are ideal for pking...bout it, i wouldnt take it to a boss.So even if there overpowered than u gotta train yer donkey off to get there.

Edited by Outlaw, 16 April 2007 - 03:59 PM.

[Jphattyjr]

Like I've been saying a lot lately. People just want more things to whine about. They should just play the game for what it is, not what they want it to be.

[shomer]

anyone remember when noobs would always post saying why do i get pked so much? just about everybody would just tell them to train their characters up so they can be good enough to kill them too. now all of you people, instead of just training up to be able to manage yourself against someone, you sit there and whine about it. a bit hypocritical if you ask me

[Redheart]

I don't think mages are overpowered.
Mages are great fun and my favorite class.

[Piggy]

wb to the forum Mike

[Hansol]

Being clever and witty is a thing of the past... Like when I played.. To be honest.. My flame was as good as balancing a chair on my chin hehe. But you do make a good point i suppose.. But you have to think of how many people your post will actually make an impact on. Now at the minute.. we have what.. An average of 10 - 20 people on the main server.. and at peak times 20 - 35 on the one alt...

A year ago.. we had around 45 - 75 people on the main server.. I still think the main problem with the game isnt how it's played nor what the classes are capable of or whats over powered... Only that we need more people to give the player base a wider diversion of players and attitudes towards playing. Now i'm being bias cause i've had enough of doing the same thing over and over, but i still like to give my two cents... As amy would put it. But still. The game will eventually die, ever though it is rather remarkable how much effort has been put into it and how long it has been sustained for. Don't get me wrong there are still things to work out and the new one alt server will only give the multi server less priority while the new one gets sorted.. But after a few months.. it'll be the same thing over and over. It'll be a long time before we have a lvl 32 fighter thief ranger or zerker... Clerics will come first. Pallys will follow second. And mage raging retards will maybe follow third... (my predictions) but still.. The more players, the more friends, the more people to play with, the more the game can give, the more competition, a generally better feeling to the game.

I'm hoping this will spark a few light bulbs in staffers minds and that they come to a good revised conclusion on how to do it.. I only play the game now and then, I have no idea how it works

Edited by Hansol, 16 April 2007 - 09:49 PM.

[Freek]

Mage raging retards!!!!!! Long before we get a lvl 32? What about a lvl 40? <3

And only reason "Mage raging retards" will come 3rd is because <= teh good trainer!

Edit: Red

Edited by Gaddy, 17 April 2007 - 02:03 PM.

[Gaddy]

Most of Woodstock's original post pretty much sums up the races.
His argument is only strenghtened when you look at the classes, but I won't bother typing that out---
Basically out of the simple fact that I doubt we'll see any changes to the mage class that will dampher their damage spells.

I do think you were a bit too hard on the gnome race though, not looking at their 5% no-fizzle bonus, which makes them a strong argument as a top clerical class, and it pushes them even further in the lime-light of mages.
Any wisdom difference is easily cancelled as far as casting by that bonus, and their dex puts them in quite good standing since NM is all about dex to most players...which to be honest is kind of foolish.
I wish people would explore the equipment a bit further, and I think that will happen on the 1-alt server.

Anyway, good post and argumentative case.
-Gaddy

[sly]

races are fine the way it is, any alteration or changes is not required.

[Gaddy]

That is not what the post is about.

[Freek]

Basically out of the simple fact that I doubt we'll see any changes to the mage class that will dampher their damage spells.

Anyway, good post and argumentative case.
-Gaddy

Finnaly someone see's why mages are not overpowerd. It is simple, if you want to be good vs casters make something with high hp or wisdom.

Also, funny on multiserver mages are nothing except in PT's or Moshes.
And even in those a mage can be beat by a Pally (holds aid till mage outta mana), Cleric (same as pally), Druid (leeches mana/Nice damage), Thief (click), and a Zerk (click/mass hp) a good percent of the time.
The only reason people are complaing about mages being over powerd is because two mages have worked hard to get beam (lvl 25 I remind you) then lvl 26+ for more stam. Sure they got the majority from there exp from Gate training but if I remeber right, the 1a sever opend at the same time for everyone, others chose not to train as hard and now wish they would of, after staff saying "we are thinking about stoping gate training" weeks before it happend. If a zerk or something would have trained as hard or would of settled for max wisdom or a high wisdom character when rolled they would not be paying the price they are paying now. Right now either one of the beam mages should not be able to take a lvl 31 cleric in an arena 1v1. Should clerics be lowerd? Mabe there buffs? Mabe there hit rate? Mabe there resistance rate? I think not.

To me the people at higher lvl's before the changes were made should be rewarded for there hard work so fast not punished for using what they had while they had it as much as possible.

To restate the stated.. If you don't wanna be killed by a mage make something strong vs casters and take them down, if you dont wanna do that then live with it. I made a mage knowing I could be clicked by zerks, thieves, and killed 1v1 vs a druid, pally, and cleric. But I made a mage because,

1. Its my favorite class
2. With the intention of leveling it and then pking

Now at lvl 40 when a zerk is rapeing a same lvl mage am I going to say zerks should be lowerd? No.

[Throwback]

yes, yes u are

[Gaddy]

I would; zerks have been overpowered ever since they were made, and so have pacifists...but I doubt any of those classes will be toned down for balancing...

[Freek]

Well thanks Gaddy

[Epic]

I dont know, my elf has max wis and doesnt seem to resist or counterspell very often..plus i'll get hit for 75+ . It just doesnt seem like a mage should be able to do that much dmg with 1 beam at....*shrugs* lvl 24 or so

[Raylen]

lol

imagine a lvl 40 mage with devastate

[Hansol]

Devastate won't be in NM solo but if it was... it'd own the HL solo

[Woodstock]

I dont know, my elf has max wis and doesnt seem to resist or counterspell very often..plus i'll get hit for 75+ . It just doesnt seem like a mage should be able to do that much dmg with 1 beam at....*shrugs* lvl 24 or so

i'd like proof of this, as max damage i ever did to you was 61-62.

[Throwback]

devastate is on NM solo....it's 5bil in dendeya

[Freek]

devastate is on NM solo....it's 5bil in dendeya

Yeah i'm 30k towards it!

[Woodstock]

would help if it was introduced for mages say at 32 or 33

[Gaddy]

I disagree. I do not think we need every mage in game to get the spell, ever.
I'd really think that, if it were re-introduced, it would fizzle a lot more and deal slightly higher damage than beam.
Basically, it wouldn't be made how it is in NM, or I wouldn't support it.

[newb2]

Mages aren't necessarily overpowered. However, they do massacre pretty much anything of a lower level.

[Hansol]

thats what a mage is for.. To pick on lower levels. My mage on the other hand was always used as the last cirt in my order in my party of 20 to get it from master to arch. I finally gave up n gave it to alex to train. Did 20 mil in 3 days. great guy. but i must say. Mages are good for Boss kills cause they just look soooooo sexy.

Hell_Spawn is a Male Elf Archmaster Mage. He looks normal, very wise, fast, and cute. In one hand he holds a Wooden Bracers. He is wearing a Robe of Storms, and a Glacial Crown protects his head. Around his neck sits a Golden Ankh. He is wearing a Crystal Ring, a Crystal Ring, a Platinum Wedding Ring, a Crystal Ring, and Gloves of Vigor on his hands. His feet are protected by Silken Sandals of Time. He is a member (Calzors Party!) of Desperate Housewives and he is in a healthy condition.

8 23 19 18 22 12 - 254 - 417

the only thing it's missing is a staff of light to have 24 int. i dont know if there are any boots of gloves that give int..

only over powering thing about mages is that you can equip them with things to duke em up a little bit cause without any stat mods.. they really arnt all that powerful.

STOP COMPLAINING

[Woodstock]

where's all the people that thought mages were too powerful? i would just like to have them posting their opinions as to why they think so and what they suggest is needed for them to be more balanced.

[joanna]

The problem with Mages is they can massacre anything with sub-archmaster HP once they hit l25. Versus other crits of arch level, they are fine