104 replies to this topic

[Raylen]

What is needed for Nightmist?

I noticed that in the last few events I have entered, there have been a number of experts taking part. It reminded me of the good old days when I used to enter on experts. Sometimes you would even have 48 people joining the Triplex.

So what's gone wrong?

- New players are now totally outclassed by experienced players, mainly in terms of playing style and account size. I don't think it's an automatic thing for someone to enjoy playing the game on 20 fairly similar alts - I think it's an acquired taste. So new players often won't hang around long.

- Older players are finding the game repetitive and unchallenging - no matter where you go, you'll always end up doing something you've done before

- As the playerbase gets older, they stop playing. This is just a fact of life. The key is to recruit new, younger players. What do younger players want? Something they can get a quick buzz from, without having to do weeks of training - they want to be able to get a lvl 15 fighter and pk some noobs!

What are the possible solutions?

- The game doesn't need a major code change or anything like that.
- I would suggest lowering alts from 20 down to something like 6-8 - still enough to have power and variation, but not so big that it puts people off. Stats of some monsters/bosses might require some tweaking - not everyone wants to run round with a buddy the whole time.
- Get some (lots of) gold out of the game. People need an incentive, a goal - when I started it was rare to see a cobalt. Now, people have 5+ cobalts each. If you were to remove most of the gold, and create a new item that sells for say 20 mil, you've got a target.
- Active recruitment! It's been suggested before (by me), but why not have something like "if you go to ubergameswebsite.com and vote for nightmist, you'll get 10k gold, can be done once a week" - this way, nightmist is around and about for people to find.
- New areas to explore will help keep players interested


Any comments/suggestions plz


Thanks,

Alan

[Hansol]

I totally agree. Nightmist needs fresh blood. It needs advertising. It needs to make a name for itself. And with the crack down on theft. It can deffinatly do this.

(also i think alan should be staff so he can sort all this out himself)

Although i like my party of 20.. I could still do most of the things i do on 10 alts. Not 6 - 8 please. still need double figures... 8 just sounds crappy

i don't know what else to say. so.. GO TEAM

[Gaddy]

I agree that something needs to be done to pull in more new players, but I don't think giving gold for clicking a vote button is quite the way to go about it.
I can see what you said with the alts and the ammount of gold, but many new players do pull in large groups, and it isn't as if people didn't use big parties a long time ago, they just also used smaller sets and there were players who did just use a couple of characters.
Now people are only online to hunt down bosses with a huge team or to sit and talk at gates.

It used to be that there would be a lot of people on and some would just be setting vines and such and wandering around...just doesn't seem like people play NM anymore, they run it like a business.



Ahh--so I will add in my suggestion about it then.
-Push for more areas with alt limits and character per square limits. This would be key.

New class restricted areas that keep out PKers, IE- thieves cannot enter.

-More level limited areas such as the Swamp
---Not like Genderas where you're as likely to die as if you take a set of level 20-25s to Chronos, or the catacombs where you need a party of 10+ to get through.


And finally- combine alt limited areas with level limited areas and give good exp in them with limited gold and be sure it cannot be abused too much.
IE- Make it so clerics cannot go so someone can't simply do a zerk with full spells instantly to level 20 or the sort, and make sure people cannot simply use multiple computers to bring in extra help.

[Hansol]

As for the cobalt thing. I remember when i first played. and some one had his cobalt stolen, and it was all funny. and there was this guy with a crit called steel. Who was training and making gold all the time. then when i saw him with his cobalt.. it was just.. Phwoar. really nice to see some one work for it for a change. Joe did it once. But he's lazy now.

infact. It seems all NM is, is a lazy greed hungy environment.

[EvilDognapot]

splendid observational skills there m'boy. notice also that rarely more than three dozen players are ever logged in, though the crits count for over 100 most of the time. notice also that of those three-dozen, most of them are idle. luckily I've been working on this problem for years, I believe if nightmist were to take on more depth or specialties it would entertain a mature playerbase, and help along new players also. let me introduce you to five years without success...

http://www.nightmist.../...s&highlite=

do go to the old forums, also.

[Kakarott]

i agree i asked JLH like maybe 4 months ago if it was ok for me to advertise on some of my sites and on my Myspace and he said it was ok so i currently have 7 sites advertising Nightmist.. so i think that that is going to be a big inprovement to the player database .. ... We The People of the Nightmist community need to get ads on our favorite, or our own sites.. we need some more players it gets boring for the older players that has played for 5-6 years

[Redheart]

Good Topic with great suggestions !

[Trevayne]

Like many of you, I've thought about these issues for years now. Since becoming staff, I've spent literally hundreds of hours working out solutions for this. As I see it, Nightmist needs two things:

1) An influx of new players.

2) A way to keep the older players entertained without unbalancing the economy further.

How do you accomplish these? There are many good suggestions here, some of which are impractical given the situation that already exists in game. Here are my best solutions of what needs to be done:

1A) Improve the reputation of the game. It is becoming harder and harder to compete with both pay-to-play and free-to-play commercial games. If we are going to attract players to NM rather than some other online game, we need to clean up the environment here. No more thieves. No more abuse. The new theft policy is a start toward that, but has not gone far enough.

1B) Make it easier for players to get hooked. New players need to experience some of the good things in the game within the first hour of playing. I've watched dozens of times in the last six months a new player come into Boar's, explore south of Nightmist, get killed four times by the same person and finally just abandon NM. Gaddy's suggestion for class-restricted low-level training areas is a good start for this, but we also need to provide more incentives and protections to new players. How else can we do this? Maybe we charge an account 25k to PK any player with less than 24 hours game time.

1C) Balance out the economy. New players need to have some valuable rewards that are worth working for that are attainable in 1 hour, 10 hours, and 100 hours. Drops that are for higher-level characters should take more work to obtain and should not be allowed to drop in value so low that new players can easily get them. (more on this below).

2D) A prestige/title/fame system for experienced players. We need to give experienced players something to do that does not involved hording more gold, getting more experience, finding more drops. Can we find a way to reward these players who have accounts worth 50mil+ a reason to play that encourages new players? The clan system originally did this for NM, but that has failed as the playerbase dwindled. Perhaps players can establish a family lineage, or obtain a position of royalty, or somehow obtain a ranking based on their contributions toward encouraging younger/less-experienced players. This would both help with recruitment and with retention of long-time players.

2E) Balance out the economy (again). For experienced players, this typically means reducing account sizes and removing gold from the game. More gold was deleted in the last week than in the entire rest of Nightmist's history. The new theft policy is helping with that, but it is not enough. I'd suggest we add two things to make this happen:
--- Remove clan sales. If you want to build a clan, that should use up gold permanently.
--- Encourage players not to pass on wealth to others when they leave. We should set the standard that gold/characters/equipment dies with you rather than re-circulating through your friends.

Let me comment on one other thing... while reducing the alt limit sounds really nice, this would require not minor tweaking... it would require almost complete redesign of almost everything in game. It's impractical.

[Jigsaw]

It'll never be the same.. bringing back stam bug and power-training thieves with the stealing gold ability might help though...

One serious suggestion that would be cool is make all bosses one hour respawn and lower xp if needed as well as drop rate of course. Yeah you'd get campers still but they can't stay on forever and eventually it'd give us something to do all the time.

If not I guess I'll stay inactive and carry on playing WoW.

[GOgeta_SS4]

WE Need more levels! 30 isntt enoguh! and more places to train like far aways, with more exp and like monsters drop the potions! its hard to train 10 to arch and everyone else already has

[EvilDognapot]

[quote]Like many of you, I've thought about these issues for years now. Since becoming staff, I've spent literally hundreds of hours working out solutions for this. As I see it, Nightmist needs two things:

1) An influx of new players.

2) A way to keep the older players entertained without unbalancing the economy further.

How do you accomplish these? There are many good suggestions here, some of which are impractical given the situation that already exists in game. Here are my best solutions of what needs to be done:

1A) Improve the reputation of the game. It is becoming harder and harder to compete with both pay-to-play and free-to-play commercial games. If we are going to attract players to NM rather than some other online game, we need to clean up the environment here. No more thieves. No more abuse. The new theft policy is a start toward that, but has not gone far enough.
[/quote]

the theives are a symptom of NM stagnation and an odd competition. players themselves raise the stakes, and fill the pot, people will continue to take the pot without playing for it until the players no longer see it as tremendously beneficial. i've talked about secure accounts and anti-sharing methods at length and it's possible to curb this without strict administrative punishment.

[quote]
1B) Make it easier for players to get hooked. New players need to experience some of the good things in the game within the first hour of playing. I've watched dozens of times in the last six months a new player come into Boar's, explore south of Nightmist, get killed four times by the same person and finally just abandon NM. Gaddy's suggestion for class-restricted low-level training areas is a good start for this, but we also need to provide more incentives and protections to new players. How else can we do this? Maybe we charge an account 25k to PK any player with less than 24 hours game time.[/quote]

once again, symtoms but not the disease. people work hard to excercise control over others, and the power differential is very great between classes and levels. we implemented the +/-10 level pk restriction and people just went to terrorizing noobs with lvl 15 berserkers. we made pacifists and they became a huge resource for the pking, competitive alts in a players stable. the game doesn't need to defend losers who aren't winners yet, the players themselves need a more varied toolset to defend themselves. limited magic defense or something of that equivalent might save them from a killing blow, but to simply restrict pking has not ever been an effective soltion.

[quote]
1C) Balance out the economy. New players need to have some valuable rewards that are worth working for that are attainable in 1 hour, 10 hours, and 100 hours. Drops that are for higher-level characters should take more work to obtain and should not be allowed to drop in value so low that new players can easily get them. (more on this below).[/quote]

once again, agreed, but this is the same old story and it doesn't work. we have low level drops and they do less for less people than when there no low level drops at all. also it's not viable to raise the bar for older players any more than it is already since alt use is determentally out of hand. once again, let new players use the tools they have, and give them more tools. we don't need to reward them after paving the road for them. challenge is best, but it has to be fair.

[/quote]
2D) A prestige/title/fame system for experienced players. We need to give experienced players something to do that does not involved hording more gold, getting more experience, finding more drops. Can we find a way to reward these players who have accounts worth 50mil+ a reason to play that encourages new players? The clan system originally did this for NM, but that has failed as the playerbase dwindled. Perhaps players can establish a family lineage, or obtain a position of royalty, or somehow obtain a ranking based on their contributions toward encouraging younger/less-experienced players. This would both help with recruitment and with retention of long-time players.[/quote]

some of this could work, but remember that there's not so much to experience, and newer players come to that ever faster. rewards for running a hamster wheel have been a joke, but the ability to modify the world for all who can see would be great. we should allow experienced players to have a piece of nightmist. there's not many left nowadays, because we have nothing to do or worth doing. if we could put our names somewhere that would be a step in the right direction, and even better, a reason to keep your name forever. only scream has his name written on the walls, and how many people remember who he was?

[quote]
2E) Balance out the economy (again). For experienced players, this typically means reducing account sizes and removing gold from the game. More gold was deleted in the last week than in the entire rest of Nightmist's history. The new theft policy is helping with that, but it is not enough. I'd suggest we add two things to make this happen:
--- Remove clan sales. If you want to build a clan, that should use up gold permanently.
--- Encourage players not to pass on wealth to others when they leave. We should set the standard that gold/characters/equipment dies with you rather than re-circulating through your friends.

Let me comment on one other thing... while reducing the alt limit sounds really nice, this would require not minor tweaking... it would require almost complete redesign of almost everything in game. It's impractical.
[/quote]

i actually like selling clan houses. if we want to remove gold there needs to be more ways to spend it. clan houses weren't built from good intentions they were built from hard work which is still done. gold is the most common item in the game, and the easiest thing to come buy. it needs to be more usefull, but now it's only to buy stuff for your crits. it could be more.

[quote name='Jigsaw' date='Nov 14 2006, 09:11 PM' post='179415']
It'll never be the same.. bringing back stam bug and power-training thieves with the stealing gold ability might help though...

One serious suggestion that would be cool is make all bosses one hour respawn and lower xp if needed as well as drop rate of course. Yeah you'd get campers still but they can't stay on forever and eventually it'd give us something to do all the time.

If not I guess I'll stay inactive and carry on playing WoW.
[/quote]

i actually believe that bringing back the stam trick and power-training would be beneficial for the game. i've outlined it before, and if i find the time i'll outline it again here. there's actually a very fun story to why it left, and how i was personally wronged.

edit: i'll try and fix this quote thing too... argh.

[Stigmata]

I think we've got to start accepting the fact that Nightmist just isn't appealing to new players. Online internet games with huge budgets and great graphics are the industry standard now, where as 4 or 5 years ago not many people could afford high speed internet connections and pc's capable of playing these games - so they looked for alternatives.

I'd be interested to see the comparison in new players from the last year or so, compared to that say 3 years ago. The difference would obviously be a large one.

I'd wager that the majority of people still playing don't really enjoy the game itself, but like the community based aspects such as the forum/chatting or interacting with others.

There is lots of reasons why Nightmist is dying, i'm not going to start listing them but I've got a pretty decent perspective on things and I can tell you now that it's never going to improve in the long run. Somethings may spark off momentary excitement, but in my opinion the era for these types of games is over.

[joanna]

On Trevayne's post...

****1B) Make it easier for players to get hooked. New players need to experience some of the good things in the game within the first hour of playing. I've watched dozens of times in the last six months a new player come into Boar's, explore south of Nightmist, get killed four times by the same person and finally just abandon NM. Gaddy's suggestion for class-restricted low-level training areas is a good start for this, but we also need to provide more incentives and protections to new players. How else can we do this? Maybe we charge an account 25k to PK any player with less than 24 hours game time.

When i started it was SDG that got me into this game. Runnin round the area invis with 3 (not 20) babythieves of which my best one could 'assassinate' the monsters in one click (I loved the 'you assassinated a rugged rogue' and your thief stayin hidden in the shadows...). At the time i used to run a football team, and while they were playin think of tactics to improve how i played the thieves (NOT by adding a 4th thief to team) for when i got back, then it was straight back into SDG, lookin for new parts of the area, lookin out for pink floyd lyrics on walls ect ect ect. None of the newer areas have the same charisma as the SDG, just piles and piles of tough monsters, traps that molest your party even if you are on the right path, clueless examines in the middle of nowhere, and other entities designed purely to combat 20-man single player parties.


****2E) Balance out the economy (again). For experienced players, this typically means reducing account sizes and removing gold from the game. More gold was deleted in the last week than in the entire rest of Nightmist's history. The new theft policy is helping with that, but it is not enough. I'd suggest we add two things to make this happen:
**** --- Remove clan sales. If you want to build a clan, that should use up gold permanently.

YES YES YES YES YES!!!!! The sooner the idea that a clan is a CLAN, and not an object owned by the chairperson, the better. TBH id like to see founders be only appointable by vote by other founders, chairperson been able to be changed by vote of founders, founders only removable by vote of founders, and minimum number of founders in clan or clan gets deleted. Although this probably wont happen, it would stop the many cases in game of people gettin rich by /remove all and selling clan, then getting away with it coz 'its my clan i own it'

**** --- Encourage players not to pass on wealth to others when they leave. We should set the standard that gold/characters/equipment dies with you rather than re-circulating through your friends.

again, BIG YES!

****Let me comment on one other thing... while reducing the alt limit sounds really nice, this would require not minor tweaking... it would require almost complete redesign of almost everything in game. It's impractical.

Reducing the altlimit to 10 alts would merely require the bosses that were normally soloable by 1 man on 20 alts to be assaulted by 2 people on 10 each, hence *multi*player... after all, this is a *multi*player game......

and on Gaddy's

****---Not like Genderas where you're as likely to die as if you take a set of level 20-25s to Chronos,

True, but the biggest problem with Gendaras is not its difficulty (very tough level restricted areas are a positive thing IMO, they give more experienced players a challenge with their lower level alts, and show how good the player is rather than merely showcasing his/her shared account with 40 cobaltarchzerkers), its the fact that the area has totally zilch reward. The other high-difficulty level restricted area drops the best archdruid helmet in game, for comparison.

Edited by joanna, 15 November 2006 - 01:17 AM.

[Gnarkill]

I agree with everything exept the pking suggestions, We already gotta wait till they are lvl 5 come on! I think the 10 lvl in either direction boundary is more then enough on this..... Pking is part of the game aswell and I know of many people who enjoy it, even taking out thier new little crits to see what they can do against other little crits out and about, maybe making say the first part of the forest of souls non-pk or something would be a easy solution but add it to the new player tutorial that most areas in game aside from the arena are not safe to venture without warning.

I think a key to new players leaving is in game language as well as action and social behavior too, granted I am not the nicest player in game but I also don't sit at gates and jack-jaw as much as I used to, there is more to be done in game, more so then not we get people loggin on to just scroll or talk crap about how people playing must not have lives or whatever, it gets kinda old... I think if the language,theft and harrasment got cleaned up new players would stick around reguardless of gettin killed. I know when I first started 3 years ago the first person to kill me was named "Fanghorn" (yes I still remember it) and rather then quit I trained till I could kill that person and did once.

EDIT: one other point I think... speaking for myself I dunno about others is that events are dying off because of the use of special pots (I know its been discussed before), not everyone can or wants to use them ...some people would rather donate gold to clans or buy better equips then buy special pots for events and its just not worth it to enter alot now because of all of the special pot use.

Edited by Gnarkill, 15 November 2006 - 01:42 AM.

[Isolated]

I think staff should help newbs more

[Trevayne]

Dognapot: "the thieves are a symptom of NM stagnation "

Absolutely true. However, this is one of those symptoms that must be treated first before you can get to the underlying cause. They are here, they are entrenched, and it's going to take real effort to make that change.

Dognapot: "i've talked about secure accounts and anti-sharing methods at length and it's possible to curb this without strict administrative punishment"

I've yet to see an anti-sharing plan that is both technically feasible and that won't alienate all of the existing playerbase. If you think you have one, please memo me a description.

Dognapot: "the game doesn't need to defend losers who aren't winners yet, the players themselves need a more varied toolset to defend themselves. limited magic defense or something of that equivalent might save them from a killing blow, but to simply restrict pking has not ever been an effective soltion"

Here is the situation I've seen at least 15 times in the last six months. A new player enters Nightmist, trains for a few hours in the arena, and then starts to wander either north or south from Nightmist with their level 8 1-stat cleric. An experienced player with an alt sitting at both north and south gate kills them repeatedly with a collection of five level 15 zerker/thieves/druids and then taunts them for the next ten minutes until the new player finally gives up. We never see that player again. Now, how is it that a limited magical defense is going to prevent this? Nobody is a winner or a loser in their first 5 hours of game time.

Dognapot: "challenge is best, but it has to be fair."

Agreed, but players will not take up a challenge when there are easier alternatives. We don't need more low-level items... we need existing low-level items to be worth going and fighting for them.

Dognapot: "the ability to modify the world for all who can see would be great. "

I implemented this in the Coliseum... it has been in-game for at least six months now. Players who defeat the challenges there will have a statue of themselves put on permanent display. To date, only one person (Sleeping) has attempted it. (He succeeded.)

Joanna: "Reducing the altlimit to 10 alts would merely require the bosses that were normally soloable by 1 man on 20 alts to be assaulted by 2 people on 10 each, hence *multi*player... after all, this is a *multi*player game......"

Unfortunately, it's not quite that simple.

[fallen]

Just to touch on a few different thoughts and suggestions;

I think the alt limit does need to be lowered to around 10 but some plp have been saying that forever. There is no need for 20 crits.

As far as the pay to play and older players ect section written above. I am a older player and currently pay to play 2 differnet games , I would have been more the willing to pay to play NM at one time but would I now?? No the game now has a hard time sparking my interest. I do however think NM could probley be revived with drastic and devouted changes. Not so sure JLH and Staff in genral would have that time or interest to set aside for something like that.

On another note DS has been talk for what ?? ever now.....maybe give the current NM users a beta or somethin to get thier hands on. DS would spark interest and get gamers really wanting to play agian and probley even manage to bring back some of our player base that has left.

I think 80% of the posts here are great idea's but, I think DS is the anwser.

[EvilDognapot]

yeah i know sleeping got a monument but we should be able to leave something personal that's more than a clan house's front door. at a certain point everyone here gets bored with business as usual. because it's the same thing from day 1, to the very end. build a house, destroy someone else's, erect monuments from public support. the colliseum is another hoop, and our declining populace should make things clear that more contests of strength aren't in great need. when it's all said and done, players don't need a new area to click the button on, they need a new goal. this would be a good direction.

as for pking, there are million ways to treat it fairly if one uses a little imagination. i mean, off the top of my head here, why not offer a spell in the pub that lasts three minutes and offers limited protection against physical attacks from players. it could cost 25 gold and protect the noobs who can't stand the arenas or traveling further outside of town. just off the top of my head.

you see, treating symptoms is bad practice when you know that there are bigger root causes. you can see the effectiveness in NM's own past, if we didn't try and treat pking the way we did, we wouldn't have little purse alts that make thieves primary function practically useless, and allows people to train long-term with little reprocussions. we wouldn't have two sets of pking crits in each players stable. we wouldn't have a class that is pretty much only used for gold farming. that's what happened when we only address the symptoms. pking is a problematic when victims have no defense or sense to help themselves. give them the tools to use or ignore. they use it, good, and if they don't, it's not a lot of exp anyhow. my babies die hundreds of times before lvl 15. players aren't that big of a hassle.

[Gaddy]

you see, treating symptoms is bad practice when you know that there are bigger root causes. you can see the effectiveness in NM's own past, if we didn't try and treat pking the way we did, we wouldn't have little purse alts that make thieves primary function practically useless, and allows people to train long-term with little reprocussions. we wouldn't have two sets of pking crits in each players stable. we wouldn't have a class that is pretty much only used for gold farming. that's what happened when we only address the symptoms. pking is a problematic when victims have no defense or sense to help themselves. give them the tools to use or ignore. they use it, good, and if they don't, it's not a lot of exp anyhow. my babies die hundreds of times before lvl 15. players aren't that big of a hassle.

That is probably the most insightful thing I've seen about how/why things worked on, especially PKing of new players, haven't accomplished much.

[Guava]

hmm maybe its just passed it sell by date...
in fact... in a word...













WoW!

[Bunny]

With the PK thing, should make it a charge for level/amount of alts which would be used to PK... 25k to people with a aprty of 20 level 30's isn't too big of a deal..

[Jigsaw]

It is quite incredible how a game like this can actually keep you addicted and coming back for more as it has done for many of us over the 6 years or longer so a big well done to JLH and team for that. During the Halloween Quest it even kept me away from WoW, but of course things like that can't go on forever and back to normal NM went.

Like others have said with new games that just own NM so much I don't think there's the pull towards NM that I've had other times to get back into it. So unless this DS is closer than we think or something else dramatic happens I can only see the playerbase dropping even more, with maybe a lil peak at Christmas heh.

New awesome suggestion... Double XP all the time?

[MysticStorm]

YES YES YES YES YES!!!!! The sooner the idea that a clan is a CLAN, and not an object owned by the chairperson, the better. TBH id like to see founders be only appointable by vote by other founders, chairperson been able to be changed by vote of founders, founders only removable by vote of founders, and minimum number of founders in clan or clan gets deleted. Although this probably wont happen, it would stop the many cases in game of people gettin rich by /remove all and selling clan, then getting away with it coz 'its my clan i own it'

I'll agree as far as clans not being sold because in all honesty, they shouldn't be sold at all, but for founders only being able to appoint founders and what have ya, I don't agree with you there. Using my clan as an example, I'm the one that made the clan, put the time and effort into my clan and dumped majority of the gold into the clan. I'm not gonna have my founders tell me what I can and can't do with my clan. If I don't want anyone in the clan, i'll just /remove all and let the clan just waste away in all it's glory. Never will happen btw.. but I never plan on selling my clan.

As far as alts being lowered, I can see 10 crits but no lower than that.

As far as an anti-sharing policy, I mentioned a clad iron anti-sharing theft solution months ago. Make it so crits are non transferable!!!!!!! Meaning, any crit you create in an account, it stays in that account period reguardless if someone deletes the crit or not!!! Then no one can steal. Yes, it would cause crits to not be able to sell, but hell, crits shouldn't be sold either. It would make everyone work hard for their arches instead of just being able to buy them. But this solution, people can share accounts and account sharer's can't steal the account unless one of them changes the password. In that case then, all staff would have to do is go into the account, split the entire account in half, problem solved. Either way, every crit in that account is accountable for, can't be transferred out and is trackable. There are too many crits in game as it is. If you create a crit (just like a clan), you should be stuck with that crit. If you don't want the crit. Just delete it and move on.

I was gonna go as far as to say the same thing with items but that would be harsh being how most people are boss hogs now a days, but if items were non transferable, people might actually go to the harder bosses and the pk'ing would pick up a bit more since here lately, i've seen older players complaining about how there isn't anyone left to pk because no one tries to go to bosses that drop a certain item that isn't sellable since we can just buy them on the site. So obviously, not a good idea for items, but you get the picture and maybe someone can come up with a better solution for items not being able to be stolen.

[Redheart]

Quoting Mysticstorm..."Make it so crits are non transferable!!!!!!! Meaning, any crit you create in an account, it stays in that account period reguardless if someone deletes the crit or not!!! "

But then people would just trade/sell account names and passwords. If a crit had to stay in the account then people would just create a new account with each crit they would want to sell. For example if your rolling to make gold. Simply create an account for each one.

[Hansol]

It would make people create a party, and actually train it from level 1 - 30.

Some one selling an arch would be a very rare thing.

I agree with fudge. double exp please.

And as far as you want to go with the clan business.. DHW was once a clan. Till they started inviting more people.

[MysticStorm]

But then people would just trade/sell account names and passwords. If a crit had to stay in the account then people would just create a new account with each crit they would want to sell. For example if your rolling to make gold. Simply create an account for each one.

That is true, but then think about it.. who is going to want to buy an account that just has 1 crit in it and can't transfer that crit out of the account? Because as I stated, once you create a crit in 1 account, it's permenantly in that account. That would be kinda stupid and I don't think somone is gonna want to keep track of multiple accounts.

[Scripto]

But then people would just trade/sell account names and passwords. If a crit had to stay in the account then people would just create a new account with each crit they would want to sell. For example if your rolling to make gold. Simply create an account for each one.

That is true, but then think about it.. who is going to want to buy an account that just has 1 crit in it and can't transfer that crit out of the account? Because as I stated, once you create a crit in 1 account, it's permenantly in that account. That would be kinda stupid and I don't think somone is gonna want to keep track of multiple accounts.

Actually back in the day.. each crit had its own password and account pretty much and if you wanted more then one crit you had to log on each one seperately, unlike todays multi-crit manager.

[Redheart]

Actually I keep track of multiple accounts.
I might use a Cleric from one account and a Ranger from another.
Also have low level account for places such as Swamps or SDG or Natura.

I always thought if I had a few different accounts and one was hacked into
I would still have the others to fall back onto.

[Trevayne]

Removing the ability to transfer characters might slow down character sales (although not by much), but it does nothing to prevent sharing or theft.

[MysticStorm]

Removing the ability to transfer characters might slow down character sales (although not by much), but it does nothing to prevent sharing or theft.

How do you figure that it wouldn't stop theft? If the inability to transfer crits out of an account was implemented, there is no way someone could possibly steal a crit. The only way to actually steal the account is change the password.

So say for example me and Piggy *gotta show love for the bacon hehehe* were to share accounts. He decides he is sick of sharing with me so he changes the password on me since he can't transfer the crits to another account. I tell ... oh lets go with trevayne since you're already in this topic, you lock the account down, you only have to deal with me and piggy.. and that's it. Half the account gets deleted and what is left is then split again between me and Piggy. End of story. Not much time spent into it and it's easy cleaning!

The way it is now with crits being transferrable, you are possibly dealing with 20 + people because one thief steals an account and sells crits off for dirt cheap to 20 different people and you are having to sort through those 20 different people just to get those crits back! It's a huge, time consuming mess!!

Now, I never said that it would stop sharing. However, if crits are not transferrable between accounts *even if you delete a crit and try to put it in a new account which would also stop that*, someone is not going to want to train crits with a shared partner and risk losing it all if the two or three people or how many are involved in the sharing were to split up or whatever. Can't take the crits out of the account so, you're out on arches or whatever.

There will never be a solution to stop sharing accounts all together. However, when it comes to theft as far as crits goes, then it is 99 percent stoppable. The only thing that would be time consuming would be the items that can still be stolen but then again, as I told Azure, items that are stolen, should just be deleted no matter how rare they are. And that will put a stop to that too.

Edited by MysticStorm, 16 November 2006 - 11:10 PM.