25 replies to this topic

[Stigmata]

Basically at the moment the class system is structured so that the classes are seemingly well balanced vs monsters and for general exploration. However pvp balance is severely lacking, in that certain classes will stand 0 chance vs others in a one on one fight.

This makes using 1 alt seemingly pointless, as no matter how good you make your crit, you'll always end up losing to something simply because of the way the current skills work.

I suggest a few simple changes to the classes 'left out' of the past class updates to rectify the imbalances.

Fighters -
Problem: No chance vs anything with armor spells.
Fix : % chance to strike a critical hit, which ignores armor.
Example : A round could look like this on a well armored mage 10/miss/10/55/blocked/8

Paladins -
Problem: Stat spells seem to be too ineffective.
Fix: Increase the chance to hit for paladins based on dex to be more proficient.
Divine prayer raises wisdom as well.

Druids -
Problem: Mana draining is too powerful.
Fix: Edit mana draining to be effective like hp drain where damage dealt is turned into mana, as opposed to the current base % of the target mp.
Example: Hit target for 20 damage, gain 5 mana. Instead of gaining a large chunk as it is now (prob something like 50 mana)

Zerkers -
Problem: Smite seems too powerful. Seems to hit too often and for too much damage compared to a thieves assassinate - renders thieves pointless in 1 vs 1 combat.
Fix: If smite misses berserker looses a greater portion of their current hp (something like 150 hp or perhaps half)

Thieves -
Problem: Just useless 1 vs 1.
Fix: Nothing major - increased chance for assassinate to hit depending on dex, and perhaps an increased dodge skill.
Example: Increased dodge raises dex by 3 and decreases strength by 3 for duration similar to rage.

Mages -
Problem: They could be altered to be better all round characters as opposed to just quick killers.
Fix: A hp drain spell, reduction in dmg to beam so it no longer rounds everything with sub 300 hp.
Example: You cast blah at target for 30 damage gaining 15 hp back!

Clerics are fine, should the mana draining effects of the drain weapons be toned down.

Rangers -
Problem: They get eaten alive by armored spell users.
Fix: Make hypnosis effect chance to cast spells, but alter how hypnosis works slightly.
Example: Hypnosis will reduce the rangers dexterity by 2 for duration. (concetrating on keeping user hypnotised so isnt as concentrated on dodging etc etc blah blah)

Read and imagine what the classes would be like with these changes, and how everything would play together. I think it would eliminate the boring repetivness of joining an event/fightning someone 1 vs 1 knowing you're going to lose if you meet a specific class, regardless of their experience/equipmenet/skill.

[Dark]

Hmm i like most of the ideas tho i dont agree with the Thief one or Rangers, just increaseing the dodge rate of thiefs as a general thing would most likly be sufficient, as for Rangers, when you hypnotise somone in real life once there hypnotise no real effort in keeping them in that state is really needed, plus if hypno works same way it does now decreasing hit rate, if thats combined with lower dex on the ranger with melee will it even make a differnce?

[Stigmata]

I think thieves should hit assassinate more often, maybe thats just me.

And the reason i suggested lowering ranger dex is because hypnotise would also affect spells, making them be resisted more frequently.

[Prophet]

Fighter - Supported.

Paladins - Need something extra apart from just that aswell.

Druid - Supported, sometimes can end up leeching 100+ if done correctly.

Zerkers - Would make smite pointless pvm which it isn't at the moment so not supported, perhaps making it weaker vs such high armor.

Thieves - Again need something extra on top of this to make them useful.

Mages - Still need a spell that can round things otherwise they are pointless, they just run out of mana and bang dead.

Clerics - Nothing to change so.

Ranger - Hypno should perhaps not reduce stats but just reduce the chance of getting hit by spells,as if you are hypnotized you're less likely to see be able to cast accurately

Edited by Prophet, 03 April 2006 - 06:09 PM.

[Rappy_Ninja]

Fighter - supported

pally - something that lame ? gimme a break they should be able to spell stack JUST as much as druids seeing as druids can be arched in 2-3 days of good training without any trouble then for store bought eq can beat any fighter ranger or pally 1v1 with all the questies on it ingame pallys take 20m+ of eq to even be noticed in 1v1s and still get raped 1v1 by druids

mage - -20 damage from beam

druid - cut the max ac they get from all spells when casted in half

zerk - triple smite damage on targets with 140+ ac

ranger - any time a druid/mage attacks them they get the damage reflected back like a paci

"because your a cheap moosetard and have no skill on this game and you are trying to use overpowered classes you slit your wrists and receive 60 points of damage"

Beatrix - +300 hp

Edited by Rappy_Ninja, 03 April 2006 - 06:29 PM.

[Stigmata]

Prophet -
Agreed with zerkers, changing smite damage to be lowered depending on armor will work.

Paladins would be fine if there spells were effective, especially if divine prayer raised wisdom as well.

If assassinate hit more frequently for thieves I think they'd be fine, especially if they had the ability to dodge melee attacks more often.

Mages - How about reducing beam damage a bit, lowering its mana cost alot, and giving them a small vamparic spell?

Rangers - yeah just making hypno effect spells is fine, no real need for stat reductions now i think about it.

Rappy - suprise.

Edited by Stigmata, 03 April 2006 - 06:18 PM.

[§møké]

well i agree with the idea's for the paladins

clerics-well their all good for now

mages- well honestly i think their ok...i just think that you should be able to resist a little more..i mean seriously...should one character be able to round another one so easily? allthough i do think that they should still keep the mana cost up and the damage up...just let the chance of the spell doing such a high damage be reduced

fighters-i like the idea of having a critical hit as a %...seriously their fighters, they should be good enough with their melee that they have a chance to get arround your armor every once in a while and get that fresh flesh hit...lol

druids- well i like druids the way they are atm allthough i think the armor does make pretty much all melee class's useless....i cant really think of any way to improve them myself and the reduction of the mana leech? well i do see how it does cost a problem with overpowering them but then if we reduced it to much wouldnt they be more useless against other mage users? reduce the leech only by a little i think..thats just me

and for thiefs well how about when you assassinate you have a chance of stealing life back..above it was suggested that mage's have a spell to steal small amounts of life...well iam not sure how it would work out with the uhmm "idea" of thiefs but it would help them out in pvp...anyways thats just my idea

[Sneaky]

Leave mages alone...if you're obsessed about them hitting too much, wear wis equipment (theres plenty of it in game).

Fighters- Critical hit sounds good.

Berserkers- Make smite ignore armor 50% if possible (not totally ignoring armor, but still penetrating some if possible)-- not only saying this for mages, as zerkers can click rangers/mages/thieves too....

Paladins- Make 26 dex be 26 dex. Supported on the wis thing as well.

Druids- Don't convert damage to mana, the whole concept of that is horrible. Reduce the leech value for all mana leech weapons by 50%.

Thieves- increase chance of assassinate to hit, and spell to put +3 dex -3 str. Supported your idea.

Rangers- Hypnotise affect fizzle rate/dodge rate of the opponent.

Mages- Indirect change-- Give all crits half of what mages have for ability to "counterspell" it--just need a new name. If mages had something like 5% chance to counterspell, give melee classes a 2.5% chance to "counter" this spell. Note: magic users WOULD have counterspell with this addition; paladins would have 1.25% counterspell 1.25% counter, for example.

Deimos for staff please

[Prophet]

Mages need the ability to round lol, otherwise they are just completely pointless. All other classess have the ability to round somehow except for paladins and clerics, and thats because theyre designed for long drawn out battles yet I don't see mages as being like either.

[DemonBlade]

personally i think that mages need a small mana drain spell. Say mana cost 1 mp, and take 10 of targets MP. Its not major, but it could become rather effective for low level mages.

[Prophet]

Leave mages alone...if you're obsessed about them hitting too much, wear wis equipment (theres plenty of it in game).

Fighters- Critical hit sounds good.

Berserkers- Make smite ignore armor 50% if possible (not totally ignoring armor, but still penetrating some if possible)-- not only saying this for mages, as zerkers can click rangers/mages/thieves too....

Paladins- Make 26 dex be 26 dex. Supported on the wis thing as well.

Druids- Don't convert damage to mana, the whole concept of that is horrible. Reduce the leech value for all mana leech weapons by 50%.

Thieves- increase chance of assassinate to hit, and spell to put +3 dex -3 str. Supported your idea.

Rangers- Hypnotise affect fizzle rate/dodge rate of the opponent.

Mages- Indirect change-- Give all crits half of what mages have for ability to "counterspell" it--just need a new name. If mages had something like 5% chance to counterspell, give melee classes a 2.5% chance to "counter" this spell. Note: magic users WOULD have counterspell with this addition; paladins would have 1.25% counterspell 1.25% counter, for example.

Deimos for staff please

Tbh I think damage should be converted to mana leech, its a very good idea, although the mana leech amount might want to go up slightly, as unspelled druids don't exactly hit clerics and mages for giant amounts.

[Stigmata]

Sneaky-
How about making wis equipment more useful then - i still hate the idea of them being able to round players so easily. Hp drain spell, small reduction to beam damage, but a large reduction in its mana cost would completely sort mages out in my opinion. They'd still be very damaging, but they would no longer be a class soley reliant on rounding something as quickly as possible.
I understand that the ability to round is important for some classes as things stand at the moment - but should these changes be added, mages would be extremely overpowered if left as they are. Try not to get caught up on the fact that your main is a mage and it no longer may be able to win in 1 second. (you didn't supply any reason why to leave mages as they are so thats what im assuming).

Prophet - They don't NEED the ability to round at all with these new changes. They'd be much more lastable characters - They'd still be as damaging as they were meant to be, just not to the extreme of where they can end a fight without the other playing having a chance to react or not being able to really damage them at all. Hitting 5 out of 5 stamina, then regening 4 on a skill that is the most likely to land in the game as well as being the most reliably damaging spell is just destroying 1 vs 1 alt combat (1 alt prof and most events are druids/mages/zerkers and its plainly obvious why).

I am not familiar with any other game that has such extreme class vs class balancing issues - it can be changed for the better so easily - so lets make this happen people, good ideas so far. I'll update the suggestions when people have had their say.

[§møké]

Sneaky-
How about making wis equipment more useful then - i still hate the idea of them being able to round players so easily. Hp drain spell, small reduction to beam damage, but a large reduction in its mana cost would completely sort mages out in my opinion. They'd still be very damaging, but they would no longer be a class soley reliant on rounding something as quickly as possible.
I understand that the ability to round is important for some classes as things stand at the moment - but should these changes be added, mages would be extremely overpowered if left as they are. Try not to get caught up on the fact that your main is a mage and it no longer may be able to win in 1 second. (you didn't supply any reason why to leave mages as they are so thats what im assuming).

Prophet - They don't NEED the ability to round at all with these new changes. They'd be much more lastable characters - They'd still be as damaging as they were meant to be, just not to the extreme of where they can end a fight without the other playing having a chance to react or not being able to really damage them at all. Hitting 5 out of 5 stamina, then regening 4 on a skill that is the most likely to land in the game as well as being the most reliably damaging spell is just destroying 1 vs 1 alt combat (1 alt prof and most events are druids/mages/zerkers and its plainly obvious why).

I am not familiar with any other game that has such extreme class vs class balancing issues - it can be changed for the better so easily - so lets make this happen people, good ideas so far. I'll update the suggestions when people have had their say.

ok now i do understand what your geting at....yes i do agree with what you say about mages pretty much now...now that i imagine if all them changes were put into place...then mages would be able to last a little longer and aswell i think that would make them a little more usefull in pvm...who actually takes a mage arround with them atm unless leading a thief party(and then i even use a druid anyways) or unless your maping out a place...but yeah lol good work on the idea's everyone lets keep em coming...


sry my ideas arent the greatest LETS OVERPOWER PALADINS SO THEY CAN OWN FOR ONCE!

[alone]

Rangers - Flaming Arrow

Maybe a little too complex for this stage of NM?

[Äññöÿäñcë]

You mean too complex because of the coding or to complex for this stage of NM to understand

[alone]

Both

[Äññöÿäñcë]

How rude! Hehehe.

The flaming arrow idea was pretty amazing though, seems like everyone else was astounded by it aswell "I didn't think you could come up with such material.." etc lol


I like it

[fallen]

Some Decent ideas.

[AnEskimo]

I like the ideas. I like the thief idea especially, cause they are worthless 1 and 1. I also agree with alone about flamming arrow.

[Sneaky]

Ok stigmata, on that same note, I don't think berserkers should be able to click -anything-.

[combusta]

Ok stigmata, on that same note, I don't think berserkers should be able to click -anything-.

then why would they be ingame? they just rangers w/ no armor, higher hp(assuming that means lower their dmg)

[Stigmata]

theres quite a difference - you can get away with saying keep mages as they are without many people batting an eyelid due to the fact that most people accept things the way they are.

[Gaddy]

I think you're all bias for your styles, classes, and equipment.

I agree with 4 things-
1. Fighters need something to make them interesting, at least a little interesting.
2. Mana leech works too well; it shouldn't be entirely based on damage delt because it is magic, not hp, but it shouldn't drain every bit the druid wants as long as mana on the enemy is high.
3. Paladins need to be made more useful, but I think it should be done by making Righteous Fury not work for player vs player combat.
4. Classes like Berserkers and Mages should not deal damage that consistently rounds an un-flawed archmaster.

[Stigmata]

I was just commenting really on his lack of reasonining why to leave mages as they are. If you're gonna reply may as well give some detailed reasons to help progress the discussion. Wasn't needed really, and I don't know it for sure - so I apologize for making the original comment! Back to discussion ?

I'll be remaking the post soon using some of the updated ideas/suggestions mentioned here - so if you like an idea please state so/if you don't please state why.

Edited by Stigmata, 06 April 2006 - 02:43 PM.

[Wolfgang]

Something I came up with... it would do fairly little, but still. Umm. Check it out? Its a basic idea for paladins and clerics, that occured to me while reading through this list.

http://www.nightmist...showtopic=19078

Edited by Wolfgang, 17 April 2006 - 09:24 AM.

[Ryuku]

Taking RF out of pvp combat won't make paladins any better imo, but would hella make zerkers hit as much as their freakin supposed too, and not more than rangers.

Mages aren't all as strong as people think, only class that can't beat them is fighters. Thieves can hold assassinate macro at 2 seconds before duel starts, odds are they'll win, zerk can hold zerk, ranger can hold RF.

Also, as a little added suggestion, AoP should be multi-castable, like RF, casting it more than once doesn't give you any benefit, but it'll waste your mana if you're stupid with it.
-Reason: Mages can't hold AoP macro at beginning of a duel, would waste all of stam and alot of mana. Theyfore making mages not as strong

And anyone ever notice how people only care about PvP?