59 replies to this topic

[Stotic]

I was looking over this area and noticed it was no-pk. I originally intended to make the area pkable, but I might of missed it when designing the area. I don't want to go changing the area to pkable without the majority of players for it.

[menardi]

voted no reason is, only place where u can actually train your cleric without possibility of dying. If u make it un NOPK it will just be like museum and barley anyone is gonna train

[Trevayne]

I think that it is actually a much more interesting area because it is no-PK.

With nothing able to attack, the only way to damage the tomb spirits is by healing. This makes the area useful only to clerics, paladins, and pacifists. Even with an arch cleric or pacifist with full wis/cha boosting equipment, you cannot make enough gold from the tomb spirits to cover the cost of mana. You *lose* gold training there. If other classes could attack here, this would not be the case.

The area requires a key from within the dungeon (and thus a dungeon keyand some effort or some gold to buy the key), which means that people are not swarming into the area continuously.

It's a nice trade off between cleric experience and making gold. Keep it unchanged.

[Tadpole]

Trevayne has a point

[Thunderja]

What makes this area so special that it can be nopk? Nothing that I can see so why is it different?

Seems to me with it anyone can train a cleric with no problems, which is a problem as arching a crit should be a challenge.

[Nocturnal]

It's fine the way it is. There isn't too many Spirits down there and they die quickly making it possible for only 1 or 2 clerics to be trained in there at a time, even then they have a bit of a wait for the spirits to respawn.
I agree with Trevayne, you have to spend alot just to get there so why not reward those that spend the gold with safe cleric training for 1 or 2 clerics at a time? Not like anyone will become the best overnight training in there compared to over areas. Not all training areas have to be pk-able.

[Crane]

Pacifists are not allowed in there anyway - which means I can't get the Tomb Spirit on my kill list! I like it being no-PK, as players who cannot log on many alts have a chance to train their Clerics versus high-XP monsters. The gold is just about right so what you spend on mana is only bade made up for (or even slightly less), and the 10-minute spawn time cause it to be a problem training too many crits down there (which is good in a few ways). If the area is made PKable, classes can attack them with their regular weapons and cause that deliberate gold loss to lose effect.

One thing I found with the area is that the real killer for me is hunger and thirst - they really do start to kick in if you are down there for a long time, unless you have a Druid logged down there.

It is also still part of the castle and quite close by to the guard's barracks and King Housmeld himself, so it makes sense for it to be no-PK.

I think also, if it is made PKable, other classes can attack the Tomb Spirits, and considering their high experience, Druids and Mages will have quite an easy time training on them.

[Thunderja]

Yes, it is a training bliss for everyone involved blah blah blah.

Crane said

It is also still part of the castle and quite close by to the guard's barracks and King Housmeld himself, so it makes sense for it to be no-PK.

That may be the reason they are locked down there, and if the guards are so close why don't they go down and smash them. But thats an o.k reason.

Crane said

I think also, if it is made PKable, other classes can attack the Tomb Spirits, and considering their high experience, Druids and Mages will have quite an easy time training on them.

Not if they get pk'ed.

Anyway I'm not for or against, I just don't see why clerics get a ride on easy street like that when they are already the easiest class to train by quite a bit. (I don't count pacifists.) And once again what is so special about this area that it gets to break the trend of all other ones?

[Payne]

lets put it this way if it was set to pk id leave crits down there and pk anyone training who wasted their gold on a key and all that mana. lol id be having fun pking people down there

Voted no, its a good place for people who i pk in zeum /racks /tunnels to train their clerics without worrying about getting pked

[Momba]

I voted yes. Having it nopk makes it to easy to train healers. Unless we even the playing field and bring make normal exp to arenas so fighter and other classes have the same advantages as clerics, pallies and pacis.

Easiest solution to the problem would be to lower the exp and damage caused by monsters yet keeping the spawn rate the same.

[Dark]

id like to see exp returned to arena, neway i voted no, clerics are so easy to pk its only place there safe

[Stotic]

A new element has been added to make it a little more challenging. Go experience it and write some feedback. I want to make it a challenge, but I don't want it to be overwhelming.

[Gaddy]

Momba, on Jul 3 2005, 03:24 AM, said:

I voted yes. Having it nopk makes it to easy to train healers. Unless we even the playing field and bring make normal exp to arenas so fighter and other classes have the same advantages as clerics, pallies and pacis.

Easiest solution to the problem would be to lower the exp and damage caused by monsters yet keeping the spawn rate the same.

I agree here.

Lower the experience or make clerics deal damage similar to Aet'Thol or less.
There is no reason for an NOPK area to have higher experience for healers than the 2nd floor and such.
It makes it WAY too easy to train healers; I know because I've used it...but it got boring and I moved Effort to Time Mummy.


Edit- The only reason people don't want it to be changed is because they like being able to train their crits there so easily. I don't care if anyone bitches at me for saying it. It's a fact.


Edit #2- To adjust it, make the area level limited- 20+ or something like that (keep mana holders out) and class limited---to keep people from just using normal alts as mana carriers. Make it cleric/pally only + level limited, and people cannot abuse it very well.


And the big #3 Edit- People in clan told me the additon (I've been gone this weekend, didn't see for my self). By the sound of it, it helps keep mana holders out, but a thief mana holder can log on and covert---keeping the Dog from stopping people from keeping a TON of mana down there.
I simply think it needs a level and class limitation, along with lower exp in one way or another.

Edited by Gaddy, 04 July 2005 - 05:37 AM.

[Payne]

Ok i think that dog is gay hitting so hard? and moving around following u? low lvls now cant train there #1 and 2 what if it hits u and a tomb spirit hits u thats 200+ + 90+ thats instant death lol i think u should come up with a better idea than a wanabe time master


And BTW i have not trained here in months and months but it sounds gay

Edited by Payne, 04 July 2005 - 07:28 AM.

[vex]

I say everything is fine the way it is right now leave it be and let em struggle with the new addition, if the game was meant to be a cake walk then the whole game map would be nopk and ppl could just go about thier buisness and train without worry.


Hey I'm just a nub who likes a challenge, now you have my opinon.

[Tadpole]

Add a Horror Hound to Southern Gatehouse... now that would be a challenge

[Sublime]

It's not like training in the tombs is actually all that easy, i meen if you fizzle once on a heal or accidently run out of stamina then you die, some of you must be overlooking the fact that tomb spirits can hit for 100+ with very fast bursts, and as said before the spawn time is slow. From what i gather the new mob added to the tombs, moves and attacks? thats kind of lame since that makes it close to impossible to even use the tombs at all. My vote is NO, leave the tombs the way they are it adds a differant feel to the game, and im not saying this because i train in the tombs because hell i havent trained a cleric since i arched Drexil. but i have to say i think Trevayne summed it up pretty well, leave the tombs alone!

[Gaddy]

105xpd
100-120 damage per stam
4 stam per round (holy might)

Do the math. The place wasn't right.



Hit and move = Tomb Spirits do very little damage to your clerics/pallys.
The area is NOPK.
The area allows players to take as much mana as they can load on alts.

It's one thing to say "Let there be a different type of area." It's another to say let us have as many arch clerics as we want without difficulty...a simple matter of time.

[Raylen]

Make the dog healable? So it's actually fun/challenging, rather than just being an annoyance (which is what it seems to be right now).

Doesn't need to be good exp, or have a drop really, or gold...just make it killable

[Sneaky]

I like the idea of making it killable. But make the damage done to it similar to healing Aet'thol, and give it high hp. Maybe make it a random hourly spawn? No drop, no gold...I'd even go as far as saying 0 exp. Make it a necessary task to train in that area peacefully.

Maybe add on to the look-over description?

The Horror Hound is surprisingly small for its vicious growl and demeanor. Its ill complexion is only a hindsight for its face is covered in rotten soils and spilled guts. Its claws seem to only get sharper from use hence its long sharp claws. The creature's body is barely perceivable as there seems to be some sort of spirit influence in its function. This evil demon guards the tombs from intruders, acting upon the will of the deceased. The Horror Hound is in a healthy condition.

[Stotic]

The area was set to min lvl - 20 and the area doesn't allow the ability covert.
I am still deciding on what to do with the monster there.

[Crane]

I quite like the Horror Hound, although I am not sure about its name (personally, I would have named it Cerberus, but I'm not the one designing the monster). Trying to dodge the dog while training keeps me on my toes, and in an odd way I enjoy it! Although... if the task of the monster is to stop mana carriers, it should have a Vision spell (if a spell-casting description can be found for a dog with such an ability). Only that I use Druids as my mana carriers rather than Thieves, as I can Nourish my healers if I am down there for a long time.

I tend to log off any mana carriers, and all I have to do with my Druid is cast Camouflage to keep that hell-hound off of me. Making the area log-to-local would also make mana carriers' lives more difficult.

[Gaddy]

I think the hound and level limit should make the area a decent challenge. Well done with those changes Stotic.


Making the Hound an undead monster is a decent idea. It could have fair exp---It sounds stronger than Tomb Spirits; so I'd think it'd have good exp.

I'd still like to see the gold lowered, even though it's not very high right now. It's basically an arena without half-exp or really low gold. The exp being half would make the monsters ridiculously hard and useless, but taking the gold away...


Edit- My 25 level 3 mana holding thieves are still there by the way...hehe.

Edited by Gaddy, 04 July 2005 - 10:09 PM.

[Vodka]

I happened to like it the way it was. Thanks for ruining the training that I actually did.

[Crane]

Gaddy, on Jul 4 2005, 11:07 PM, said:

Edit- My 25 level 3 mana holding thieves are still there by the way...hehe.

If they're not on the first square of the Abandoned Tombs you might have a hard time getting them out!

I feel that the Tomb Spirits' gold is fine as it is. It roughly pays back what you spend on mana, but only just, and getting a pair of Tomb Gloves is quite rare these days!

I agree that the Horror Hound should be undead, mainly because I can't see a live dog surviving in the tomb for very long, especially with Tomb Spirits around who hate all living things. But the HP should be very high; as for the prize for slaying it, it need not be a good prize, as just getting rid of the mutt for a while is a prize in itself!

[Sneaky]

You basically repeated what I said Crane . High hp, no gold/item dropped, and 0-low exp.

[Ryuku]

I have a better idea. Make it all the way it was before this topic, and make the whole place log to local. Problem almost solved!

[Crane]

Sneaky, on Jul 5 2005, 04:29 AM, said:

You basically repeated what I said Crane . High hp, no gold/item dropped, and 0-low exp.

Sorry!

Removing the Horror Hound and setting the whole area to log-to-local will not fully solve the problem. Players tend to log off crits to train them later or to keep mana carriers safe, but the way around that is to have a few hours free for uninterrupted play and to keep the mana carriers near the start of the area where there aren't any Tomb Spirits spawning.

[Gaddy]

Log to local would really ruin the area, in my opinion.
It's a training area. Training areas aren't log to local because most players do have things aside from Nightmist to do...and we don't sit online for shifts that we know ahead of time.

I think the level cap and the hound probably solve a good bit of the problem.
The reason I said less gold dropped is because they would no longer pay for mana that way.
Basically, players would then lose gold for training there....which makes sense if he exp won't be lowered.

[Momba]

Gaddy, on Jul 5 2005, 05:49 PM, said:

Log to local would really ruin the area, in my opinion.
It's a training area. Training areas aren't log to local because most players do have things aside from Nightmist to do...and we don't sit online for shifts that we know ahead of time.

Log to local would make the area better. It would be less over populated, The keys to get in would be valued at much more, and of course someone would have to farm these keys.

If everyone had to start at the same spot each time they logged on it would change the face of the game for the better. To many people have boss checkers, huge amounts of alts stored in areas, etc. . .