196 replies to this topic

[Flux]

Note: I understand the admin have some significant changes planned for the not-so-distant future, but I still feel that these points are important to reiterate. If you agree that changes such as these are important to the lifeblood of the game, please dont hesitate to show your support.

Like many people here, I hope to bring Nightmist back to a one-crit-at-a-time game. When I mean one-crit, I don't advocate only being allowed one per account. I just infer that only one can be online at a time. I understand that people want to experience the game in many different ways, and I wouldn’t want to stop people from having different characters.

There are many solid arguments regarding the benefits of bringing Nightmist (back) to a one-crit game. One of the primary arguements against this movement is the concept that Nightmist is "tailored to multiple crits" or "its too hard to function without alts". To say that Nightmist isn't set up for such a change is true. However, there are several adjustments that can be implemented that will facilitate such a change. I can say with a completely clear conscience that these changes will make Nightmist a better game.

[ Short Term Solutions ]

Increase of the level cap: It honestly doesn’t take that much time to fully train a crit to level 30. Many MUDs have leveling engines that require years of training to fully master a character. If players continue to keep maxing out characters in such short periods of time, the next logical step is to create an alt, and begin work on him/her.

Suggested solution: Raise the level cap to 100, with required xp increasing in a similar exponential fashion, and hp/mp rising accordingly. This will allow for more time to be spent mastering a character, will allow for an even greater variety of weapons/equipment, and will make single-alt PvP more exciting.

Increase base hp/mp: To ease the blow of single-alt training, and to allow single characters to become more self-sufficient.

Stronger Mana Crystals/Healing Pots: Once again, to allow for single characters to train, duel, and boss-battle without the use of “mule alts.”

Implement a Short-Term Compensation Period for “Alt-Loaded Accounts”: I understand that bringing in a system such as this might come as unfair for people who have upwards of 20 alts. People put lots of hard work and time into training these characters. Therefore, a formula could be devised to appraise characters and allow players to trade in all their extra crits for gold. This way, people can focus on strengthening their one or two main characters.

[ Long Term Solutions ]

Note: All of these are purely hypothetical, and not really here as full-out suggestions, but for the sake of discussion as to how to better drive this game towards a single-character world.

Innate Skill system: Characters would be able to choose three innate skills from a list of around 30 (one at level 1, one at level 20 and the final at level 30). This would allow for further customization of a single character. Skills would allow single characters to potentially make up for shortcomings in one’s class/race.

Alignment System: I wrote a long guide on a potential alignment system that now rests in the hands of a few players and the staff. Alignment is a logical addition to the game, and would bring both RP value and potential benefits to single characters. Also, it may be a sensible replacement to the 'attack within 10 level' limit.

Deity System: Once again, a way to bring added depth to the (currently shallow) system. Another way people can use a set of custom skills to “fill in the chinks” (as someone had put it) for one’s character.

Clearly, it is possible to make Nightmist a single-character game. It would be a lot of work, but the final result would be a game with infinitely more depth, character, and RP value.

[Aidon]

I agree full-heartedly with this. Another idea that could help with this limit would be the idea of backpacks/storage devices.

It is impossible to Roleplay an army of characters, and as of now it is one of the few ways to make it in the game today.

[Deathwish]

This sounds like an excellent idea it is also well planned on your part but one thing that bothers me is the experience. I wouldn't like to be the one that tries to get to lvl 100 from lvl 99 the experience gain needed for lvl up would be to high... Maybe make the monsters give more experience?

[Oracle]

As much as everyone loves this idea, it's not going to be added until the admins have finished their big project currently being developed.

[PureMourning]

I'm fully aware of staff's feelings about sharing situations but, what about those who share accounts? Would it be enabled so that 2 different IP addresses could log onto the account and still play 1 character at a time? Would be annoying setting up 2 accounts just so the both people who share can access the client.

[Oasis]

It would be just like rev if all thoughs changes were made...

But I would like to see 1 alt limit. *Starts training a pally*

And ogod dont try to make nightmist 2d.....

Edited by Oasis, 13 March 2004 - 05:05 PM.

[Squee]

Hanavor, you're a man after my own heart.

One question, though:

How would this Deity system work? If this is put in (at any time in the future) I strongly hope that it is something unique and not just a rip-off of other MuD's Deity Systems.

[Stotic]

Of course I'm a promoter of the no-alts philosophy. If a deity system isn't unique enough maybe some type of citizenship system. Purely experimental.

http://www.nightmist...699;start=18#18

[Gaddy]

If this was the way the game was played I would feel bored a lot of the time. Usually people sit on an alt and talk anymore anyway, but when you actually go to a boss or fight and stuff, doing it on one alt is simply boring. A 1v1 fight isn't even interesting half of the time.

Rather than try to flame the post, I guess i should just ask my ?s about the problems with having alts...


Why is it a problem for people to be able to log on as many crits as they can use effectively?

How would 1 alt improve the game? (not like, people wouldn't be able to jump me with 3-5 crits because that just doesn't seem like much of a reason to me since you can also have on a # of crits of your choice)

Wouldn't increasing the level cap cause people who've played longer to have such a huge advantage over new players that the new players would probably quit or become really annoied and start posting things about a reset?

A 1 alt limit would make pacifists, paladins, clerics, and druids (to an extent) far better than other classes due to their healing abilitys making it a lot easier to save gold and gain exp, how would other classes be able to compete?

I see people posting that they like the idea, but in all truth, do you guys even play the game anymore? I see a couple of you on, but usually just on one alt talking and stuff rather than actually doing anything out of town. Why, if you don't play much, do you guys think the game should be changed so much to suit your liking?

I've never seen a problem with having alts, it makes the game more tactical and entertaining than playing 1 alt. I played 1 alt for about a month when i first started. I remember it being very boring, stamina waiting, having higher lvls kill me (with just their 1 alt, mages usually), and just wasn't anything fun really. If nightmist went to a one alt limit i think it would lose most of its appeal to me. I don't really see why it'd be better than the many 1 alt games of big gamming companies and such, such as Diablo and Counter-Strike (not that CS is anything like NM, but i'm trying to make a point)....

-Gaddy

[Gaddy]

Of course I'm a promoter of the no-alts philosophy. If a deity system isn't unique enough maybe some type of citizenship system. Purely experimental.

http://www.nightmist...699;start=18#18

I went to that link and read the suggestions you had. Those would be pretty awesome additions. I would like to be able to hold some kind of job, have a personal house, and call myself a citizen of a town and stuff. It'd not only add to the roleplaying aspect as you said, it would be cool just cause I could chill and stuff. Sit and be a merchant at SGH and what not. None of them really require a 1 alt limit as long as you can't make multiple ammounts of gold by having extra characters work places and such.

I think it would be nice to be able to do this and have an "Account Leader". Mine would of course be Gaddy. It might let me have all memos comming into my account go to him, he would be the only one able to hold a job or change citizenship of the account or buy a house. It'd just be nifty.

[gnr and safety hazard]

first I have to say this: I support this, considering the fact I made a topic on it not to long ago, but you have put some effort into supporting it, and it looks very good, so I have to congratulate you there.

But, I was talking to JLH about this on MSN, and he said he has some big plans in the near future with nightmist, so be patient, and this 1 character limit may be put in, after they finish their "big plan".

[Perfectionist]

I dont think we should do this! It will just be like revelation!! which i know gets boring easy! because it takes to long to lvl a character!!
Also u have to ask people like to heal u and stuff!! (like on revelation i thing nightmist should just stay how it is now just get abit bigger?(map) and just maybe few more weapons. thats it!

[Stotic]

now where's the perfectness in that?

[Silverwizard]

I like this idea, mostly I have been on a paci recently making me more of a 1 alt person, I also like the strengthening of items, we need it, and the inate skills. Also I agree healers will have a power boost of all time if this was put in, just devil's advocate.

[Flux]

Wouldn't increasing the level cap cause people who've played longer to have such a huge advantage over new players that the new players would probably quit or become really annoied and start posting things about a reset?

Don't they already? Look at all the complaints about alt armies. Plus, an alignment system would allow newer players to determine with greater ease who has evil intent.

A 1 alt limit would make pacifists, paladins, clerics, and druids (to an extent) far better than other classes due to their healing abilitys making it a lot easier to save gold and gain exp, how would other classes be able to compete?

On the contrary. This is where a system for innate skills could come in, allowing non-healing characters the option to choose skills like "quicker HP regen" or "+5 bonus to natural AC". These are just examples, but you see what i mean, and how it would bring another element of skill into building your character.

I've never seen a problem with having alts, it makes the game more tactical and entertaining than playing 1 alt.

Changes such as these would make the game more tactical and entertaining, while keeping Nightmist as an actual RPG, as opposed to kind of a real-time strategy game, which it is starting to turn into.

Thanks for posting your disagreements intelligently, Gaddy.

[Hatchet Crew]

I agree with it all and think its great.

Sum of this may have been said already but i think that it would bring the nightmist community closer together. You would have to go in partys to do sum things and that would take cooperation. Also i like the idea of working tward customizing your crit(s) and alignment. This would increase Rp value and also add to the game in other ways i'm sure.

For customizing a crit i dont know if its possible because i'm sure it would take alot of programing but you could even go as far as when you roll a crit you just roll it and as you lvl it you make it into what kind of crit you want. Say everyone starts off as a citizen of nm... and then as you lvl you choose skills and alignment and such to make your char into what you want it to be. But again its prolly not possible and would also probly take a reset i dunno. (But if it is possible let me know p/m me and i will give you a more detailed view of it)-staff/jlh.

There is no reason for not having the game a 1 alt game i only see it as making the game much better

[dognapot]

doing anything to the level cap itself is utterly pointless. if you can get to 30 too easy, make getting there tougher. why change the number itself? hell, in a 1-alt enviroment it might not be so easy to get to 30 and there you'd have it. what i'm trying to say here is, that changing the number is a quick fix that doesn't really change much in the long run, and since fixes only come so often in this, why not do one that works?

[newb]

Sorry Gaddy, you contradicted yourself horribly within those two posts.

But anyways, I like it. Cool stuff.

[Flux]

doing anything to the level cap itself is utterly pointless...

Dognapot, I can see where you're coming from but here's my reasoning for raising the level cap as opposed to just retooling EXP or making the game generally harder.


A. It would allow for a greater subdivision for level-specific weapons, spells and areas.

B. Dividing a "two year level span (that is to say, making it so it takes two years for the average player to max level)" across thirty levels could arguably be more discouraging, as towards levels 25-30 levelling up would happen extremely infrequently. I know that this is subjective, but it makes sense from a certain point of view.

C. One could argue that it would be easier to add on to the existing system, keeping all the areas, spells and weapons we have now, and simply adding new sets of weapons and items for the upper echelons.

[Gaddy]

Sorry Gaddy, you contradicted yourself horribly within those two posts.

But anyways, I like it. Cool stuff.

Not really, Stotic's ideas in no way require the game to have an alt limit. They would simply be additions that would add to RPing if people wanted to use them that way.



I think changing Nightmist to a 1-alt game is changing the whole thing. As in if it were added, then they might as well delete the current files and re-do basically the whole game. Everything would need to be changed, monster strenth, each class' abilities and such, hp, mana, items, many of the maps, and a lot of the systems. I don't like the idea simply because I do not see how it would be much fun only using 1 alt, i suppose that is simply because I wouldn't really consider roll-playing. I just don't view games that way. I am not the crit, i use the crit...i cant get into it and play the part of a character, it just isnt the type of 'gamer' i am. If i were i would probably play this game differently or play a game that is that way.

With all of the additions to support alts, such as commands like /invite alts and /clan invite alts...i hadn't really thought it looked like JLH planned on entirly re-coding the game to make it against alts.

[dognapot]

granted i don't know what the next big thing is (ooh if it's another crappy class...), but two years of leveling in nightmist would be just as discouraging no matter how many numbers you pass along the way. new stuff every once in awhile is cool, but if you're going to spend a long time trying to reach your limits there should be more than numbers and items. you mention a skill system, and i think that could fill in the gap. however, over a long period of time, like you propose, we'd need more than three skills or an overhaul of the stat system to divide things out over that kind of a span. say, when you reach a mark in your experience, instead of automatically putting it into a level, you would have a choice of instead raising a skill point a little bit? anyways, what was i going for...? oh yeah, what's the point in making more levels if the time spent inbetween 1 and the maximum is the same? two years is okay with me, but the space inbetween the minimum and maximum has to justify the time spent on the process whether the process ends at 30 or 200. the number is irrelevant to me, and i only take issue with it because what justifies it is the system of enhancement or character development that it serves as a frame for. if we had a skill system that just worked best over 100 levels then i could understand, but the way i see it is we have 30 levels and no real skill system or character development over it. so i can't imagine why we'd play with the level cap without real good reason. i mean, hell, it works? don't it?

[green_mantis]

i personally do not agree with this idea, however, i will be respectful and even make a suggestion. you could add hirelings (mercenaries, healers etc.) that people could hire for a certain price per day. the number of hirelings and the power of them would be dettermined by the charisma of the character and the level of the character.

i make this suggestion because most people would like to have a healer or vice versa a muscle to help support them in their quests

as another note i would like to take this opportunity to point out that if you make Nightmist a 1 crit game you will need to add some serious storyline to keep RP players even remotely interested

[Flux]

oh yeah, what's the point in making more levels if the time spent inbetween 1 and the maximum is the same?

Refer back to point A: It would allow for a greater subdivision for level-specific weapons, spells and areas. And possibly skills, who knows. Room for expansion, if you will.

[Oasis]

For the first like 20 levels you would only need like 200 exp.

[Flux]

You misunderstand.

We weren't saying "take the total 250 million exp and divide it over 100 levels as opposed to 30". I was saying "Keep the exp/level system the same, and just add on 70 more levels with increasing XP requirements as you go," and Dognapot was saying "What's the point of 100 levels over a two-year timespan as opposed to 30, (among other things)". Anways, none of us were implying the former.

And as for green_mantis: hirelings are a nice idea, but they seem to just be another way to cover what could already be addressed by this system if you think it through carefully. Skills, higher base hp/mp, better pots and the other changes I mentioned would not only allow non-healers to become more self-suffcient, they would address concerns regarding player customization, replayability and other things mentioned prior.

Anyhow, I'm done arguing my side. I've been playing the game for three and a half years now, and feel with a fair amount of confidence that what needs to be done will get done, eventually. These suggestions aren't nifty "what ifs," they are some logical steps for the game to take to evolve into an even greater game. But if you seriously expect Nightmist to continue indefinitely as a multiple-alt game, I have a strong feeling that you will be proved otherwise, in one way or another.

You can quote me on that.

[dognapot]

well, first off, any length is infinitely divisable. furthermore, if training your character was non-linear, there could be no end of the headroom for development (in a more tangible way than eleatic garbage). so, yeah, having 100 levels gives you a lot of room if gaining levels is the only way to advance, but that's boring in the first place and just as limiting as 30 levels.

[Momba]

As much as everyone loves this idea, it's not going to be added until the admins have finished their big project currently being developed.

We already got the Projects. It's called Tribal Street.

[Oracle]

We already got the Projects. It's called Tribal Street.

I've no idea what this is but I assure you there is much bigger stuff planned.

[Stotic]

Momba made a funny Oracle.

[Deval]

I don't get it...

Modify: Unless of course you meant that Tribal Street is an unending part of the game needing constant development due to the ever changing faces of our clans, then I get it...

Edited by Deval, 14 March 2004 - 11:23 PM.