39 replies to this topic

[PureMourning]

Hey everyone! There are a few things I want to get off my chest. I'm pretty sure that this is going to be diarrhea of the mouth, so buckle up, as I ask you all of two things:

1. Please take the time to read my entire post. One of the most important aspects of online game development is having strong 2-way communication between staff and players, and I want all of us to have a voice. Even if you strongly disagree, that's perfectly fine. But try to be respectful and constructive criticism is always a plus.

2. I have put a lot of thought and time into this. This may seem over the top, but I'm very serious and I'm genuinely looking for support.

So the rock bottom-line is this:

Nightmist has fallen into a state of utter despair - we are all vagrants in a realm without administration, and "we" constitute a few players who are still around because of the way this game has impacted us during its glory days. I'm sure most of us would love to see real improvement, and a lot of us have some ideas, but we're at a point where this is not enough. Someone needs to be appointed to take charge. To seriously make upper-echelon, big decisions to slowly get the game back on track.

I want to be this person.

There has been a half dozen "staff" threads over the past two years. These have ranged from heated discussions about whether a server should have more staff, to polls discussing who should step up... put all that together and look at where we are today. Have things gotten significantly better?

Let me take a few moments to explain how this thread is different. First off, in an ideal world, I would never jump right to creating a thread such as this, but its simply a matter of necessity now. My first course of action was approaching admin directly. To sum up their response, "night mist pretty much runs it self". The truth is, JLH does not check on things on a daily basis - this makes it apparent that there is no bridge between admin and staff.

The response I got actually shocked me. The first thing that came to my mind was, "Why would you allow a game that you pay to manage just float away like that?" Well, the answer is simple. Mr Gigabit Internet Services pays for the server. This is costing JLH nothing.

Aha! Now we're getting somewhere. Why invest time and energy into a game that requires you to do nothing? This is all fine and dandy and all of us willingly give props to the big man for initially creating NM, and whatever he wants, or doesn't want, is perfectly up to him. But where does that leave us the players?

My next point of conversation focuses on that essential point... the players. An online RPG is NOTHING without its players. But also, NOTHING without a staff who truly understands game design and development communication. These are fundamental concepts that I believe I have a strong grasp on. I haven't actively played since 2009 but why do I still check the forums every day? Why am I putting time and energy towards a desolate community? The answer is simple: I've been around since the beginning. I created my first account before reset, and there's only a few of us around who can still say that. I have literally observed all the ups and downs that this game community has to offer for 10 years now.

A big part of successful game design and community management is looking at this data, the changes, and doing what's called trend analysis. Once again, I am familiar with these terms because I've studied them at college (yes, I was a game design student - hardcore nerd!) I don't want to turn this already-ramble into an epic dialogue so I'll sum up with some bullet point thoughts:

I want recognize and want to restore the following:

Technical / Management:
- I want to turn this game into a professional atmosphere. The staff should act well-mannered and never, never bash the players. The players are the fruit of the product, and even if someone doesn't like an implementation or change, the staff should never blatantly show distress and become emotional on the boards. This is a proper etiquette to follow that WILL yield results.
- I want to restore player - staff communication. This is achieved through a shared development atmosphere (usually on-line software that even the pros in the industry use) that track whats needs to be done, prioritizes tasks, and incorporates work delegation and efficient communication.
- I want to thoroughly review the ToS with both staff and players. I want to come to a consensus and publicly notify everyone on what to expect. In the past, transparent rules have been "broken" and the punishments handed out were very subjective. There should be NO floppiness about this at all.
- I want to organize the inner-echelon of staff organization that yields team-work and maximum production efficiency.
- I want to incorporate a change-log that neatly illustrates to the players what's going on behind the scenes.

Game Design:
- I want to do some REAL GAME design, and breathe new life into the realm. Not just balancing and designing new items and mobs, but bring the players together through story driven quests that not only revolve around combat, but also emphasizes team work and creative problem solving.
- I want to put pressure on the holes to analyze the cause-and-effect of imbalances, and work to resolve things the right way (in contrast to quickly coming up with a quick fix which later rips off like a band aid).
- I want to run (and also implement new) events that the players can count of being consistent.


I want to say in closing, thank-you SO MUCH for reading this, and I applaud you for making it this far. I want to sincerely say that I'm doing this because I care about the community that I grew up with and I cannot do this alone. The players need to bound together and I want to make serious improvements!

[Dangerous]

Supported.

If your willing to put effort into a dying game then fair play and goodluck.

[Autek]

GG

[Abstract]

Just a quick warning, dont turn this post into a "flame current staff" post. He has a genuine interest in the game, and put some thought into this post.

Dont spam it up with drivle and risk it getting locked.

- Jase

[Trendkill]

Very supported.

[Pureza]

/t Puremourning Are you stating this for both servers? As in you'd be interested in working and improving both servers. Or just for the 1 alt server?

In any case, Very much supported. Though if you are only willing to work on 1 server or the other, i'd like to see someone do the same for the other server.

[Eternyte]

Sounds good to me, if JLH approves it I nominate myself for Staff

I would suggest though that this "overhaul" happens on a separate server so that the world can be created/balanced properly over the next 12 mths or so, and the game released for general population when deemed appropriate.

Either way it's for the greater good of the Nightmist community, so naturally Supported!

[Freek]

I "Like" this post.

[PureMourning]

It is really good to see the quick response for support! This is exactly the first step I feel we need to take as a community to stride for change. Thank-you Dangerous, Autek, Trendkill and Jase (and for keeping the peace)

/t Puremourning Are you stating this for both servers? As in you'd be interested in working and improving both servers. Or just for the 1 alt server?

In any case, Very much supported. Though if you are only willing to work on 1 server or the other, i'd like to see someone do the same for the other server.

I am definitely willing to work on both servers. I am however, more partial towards 1-alt server for the single fact that I haven't played multi in years. However, I've never been one to partake in the "which server is better" battle and I equally respect the challenges of both (probably because of all the time I've put into both of them). But especially when it comes smaller, but equally important tasks, I would be willing to focus on developing for both servers. For example, I envision designing a series of new events that I would implement and test with both servers' mechanics in mind. And I would dedicate the time to equally distributing and running said events across both servers. I would also find time to game design for multi as well.

But the truth is, I am only one person and true committal change will take a strong team of people. I can readily think of a few people who I think would be great to help out with developing and balancing primarily for multi-alt (someone with a lot of experience like you)

Sounds good to me, if JLH approves it I nominate myself for Staff

I would suggest though that this "overhaul" happens on a separate server so that the world can be created/balanced properly over the next 12 mths or so, and the game released for general population when deemed appropriate.

Either way it's for the greater good of the Nightmist community, so naturally Supported!

First off, I've always looked at you as a solid figure in the Nightmist community. I think you exhibit the perfect traits to help support and develop the game!

This is tricky because I just done describing my support for both servers - but the reality is that you bring up a very important point. What I described as game management / technical / and game design improvement were ideas and proposals that can be executed within any domain, but you're bringing up a much bigger (and very valid) idea - to cultivate a new server that is designed, balanced, and tested from the ground up before release.

This is something I DO agree with. However, a decision such as this falls solely in the hands of JLH. If this did happen, I would suggest scrapping both servers and eventually migrating to the new and well-tested server. And trust me, I totally understand that players would not want to lose all their belongings they worked so hard for. If something as drastic as a new server opening happened, I would suggest implementing an Account Evaluation Credit System:

This means that everyone's account would be analyzed for total values (based on static monetary value, items, and characters) and transferred over to novel currency that could be used to purchase unique content on the new server. This content would NOT give players of the new server an unfair edge over anyone else (such as spending gold, items, ETC...),but allow them to show off their previous hard work and wealth through character customization. Such as renamed items, player housing, and so on...

BUT, these are all details which don't need to be discussed yet! I'm willing to work and make changes in NM's current state (dual-servers) and / or in the event of a major over haul. Some issues are beyond are grasp at the moment!

[Catalyst]

Supported. I'll play everyday again!

[Sarah]

Completely and totally supported.
I think anyone that knows Rob knows that he would do a great job revamping everything that we all have enjoyed at one time or another. Nightmist has needed someone to step up and make major changes for a long time, and Rob is definitely the guy for the job.

[Cadabra]

Supported.

One change i think that probably wont come up is removing clans, this would be a big step to improvement.

At the minute Major bosses a rarely done and its been this way for a long time because of the whole clan ego nuts.

[PureMourning]

Admin has gotten back to me and restored this original thread. I'm not sure who deleted it or why it was deleted. Stig and Gaddy both claim they did not do it.

Anyways, here was my response I wanted to post yesterday before this was deleted.

Thanks to Catalyst, Freek, and Sarah for taking the time to read this thread and for vocalizing your support!

Supported.

One change i think that probably wont come up is removing clans, this would be a big step to improvement.

At the minute Major bosses a rarely done and its been this way for a long time because of the whole clan ego nuts.

Thanks for voicing your opinion on the removal of clans. This would be a bold change and I think it nicely shows that you care about the game.

The idea of removing clans transcends into a gray area that has been tap-danced with many times: changes to the game that require editing the source code. The beautiful aspect of NM (it being text-based, of course) is that designers can really capitalize on their imagination. I believe that there is still more power that can be squeezed out of this game without adding any additional lines of code... however, with the capability to do so, serious change could take place.

From my understanding, the source code is very protective (as it should be honestly) but perhaps JLH would entertain the idea of allowing me to setup an SVN (open source control system) that would allow him to share only specific files. For example, if I wanted to add elemental enchants to weaponry, he would only have to upload and share the files needed to make such changes, and then I could edit, then re-commit them to the server for implementation.

This is a long shot and yet another issue that is currently above us.

[Apocalypto]

Please delete this nonsense again..... *eyes*... anyways.. i would deffy support this and have said this numerous times before he posted his interest...

Edited by Apocalypto, 31 May 2011 - 02:14 AM.

[Shane]

Supported ... but I am all for helping this game. I hope that this will fix the current situation.

[ketchup]

[Sandy]

I am very supportive of your ideals. I think it would be good for the game to have an active staff that is willing to better the community. I miss all the old moshes. (Now they were fun!)
One thing i do have to do..is give props to Stig. He did open up a new area that was challanging and exciting. He seems to be very neutral on this game and i think he has done a great job as staff.
/clap stig.
And Rob, I know you from before and you seem like the type of person that would be able to better the game and make it fun.
/clap Rob.

[Apocalypto]

Totally agree with sandy, and i really have been absent because of some of the other stuff thats goin on........

[Cadabra]

Another thing i suggested quite some time ago was doubling HP but this might not be the case if classes are balanced correctly.

PK'ing is a big thing in the game and being killed in 1 shot many of times by Zerks or Thieves shouldnt happen.


Fighters and Paladins need something to up their game as they are very useless at the minute.


I may play again in my spare time if things get changed and the game becomes fun again.

Atm im sticking to Runescape

[Tietsu of TSA]

Just because I'd support the idea doesn't mean I'd support the changes that are made. Major revamping would warrant a total reset of the server, which I've supported for atleast two year. I hope it all works out, goodluck.

Side note, I know the game can be completely redone and retain it's text based format. Dungeons and Dragons theme still holds true to thousands of people out there. Really need to put money toward advertising, it's cheap these days.

[Freek]

I can hit it

[Apocalypto]

And if he isnt on, i can

[Exor]

Wow /applause. It's very very nice and surprising to see such a well thought out and detailed post like this around here.

This is JUST what Nightmist needs. I haven't played Nightmist in years personally because I just didn't think it would be worth the time to play a dying game, but I would totally return to Nightmist for this. Rob you really sound like you know what you're doing and would be perfect to head this up. Nightmist HAS to have a leader in development if it is to continue and get new people to play. JLH tossed in the towel years ago when his life got too busy and you can't blame him, but leaving the game to run itself just does not work.

And like others have said, Nightmist honestly is going to need some kind of reset if there's any hope for it growing. And there really needs to be just one server as well. Separating the small playerbase into two servers was not a good idea to begin with. I also think there needs to be some sweeping changes to balancing the game as well. While I haven't played in ages, I do know even when I played there was glaring imbalances that existed between classes, and from what I've seen things haven't changed. In fact it seems they've gotten worse.

Staff members also need to be monitored in the future. We all know how many staff have cheated and abused their powers in the past. In fact I'd be willing to bet more staff cheated than didn't cheat when you add them all up. That just shouldn't happen at all.

But yeah I'm saying now what's already been said in this thread so I'll stop. I'm just very pleased to see this thread and I really hope it comes to fruition.

[Silk]

Hiya people youre semi-friendly neighborhood Kman here... I dont know how many of you know this but Rob is very and i mean VERY capable of turning this game around. Among the facts that overall hes a great dude with minimal enemies, and the lacking in desire to attain them...He has experience creating and managing games, games far more indepth than this.....That being said I and many other people have already stated In Sipport of Rob, now the ball is in someone elses court

[Trendkill]

Would be nice for a CHANGE!

[Adultery]

highly supported.



-And Justice For All-

[Pok]

i support this fully, if your willing to help out an create new things for this game to make it more fun im all for it

[Tyler]

I definitely support this and know that Rob has what it takes to get the job done. We worked extensively together developing Tales of Agon, which fell through. However, his ideas and work ethic were still prevalent. Even within the realm of NightMist he seems to be very well-liked from what I can tell.

I know Rob would act professional in nature and do his best to better the game while providing a fair atmosphere for all users (i.e. unbiased).

I do not mean to turn this toward me, but I have a very good sense of game mechanics and would serve under his wing sort of thing like we did in Tales of Agon, as he can vouch as much as he would like if it came to it on my ideas, intelligence, creativity, and ethic. Honestly, I feel as if we'd make a good team, for we work well together and have a similar grasp of things, though he is a little more... advanced.

If you cba to read what I typed; supported!

[PureMourning]

There are some overdo thanks to be given: Thanks to Terron, Apocalytpo, Shane, ketchup, Silk, Trendkill, Adultery, and Pok.

I also wanted to respond directly to certain posts:

I am very supportive of your ideals. I think it would be good for the game to have an active staff that is willing to better the community. I miss all the old moshes. (Now they were fun!)
One thing i do have to do..is give props to Stig. He did open up a new area that was challanging and exciting. He seems to be very neutral on this game and i think he has done a great job as staff.
/clap stig.
And Rob, I know you from before and you seem like the type of person that would be able to better the game and make it fun.
/clap Rob.

I completely agree with you here. Stig has done a fantastic job has consistently been the ideal model for what the players should expect from a Staff member. Its also good to hear from you!

Just because I'd support the idea doesn't mean I'd support the changes that are made. Major revamping would warrant a total reset of the server, which I've supported for atleast two year. I hope it all works out, goodluck.

Side note, I know the game can be completely redone and retain it's text based format. Dungeons and Dragons theme still holds true to thousands of people out there. Really need to put money toward advertising, it's cheap these days.

I want to reinforce a couple of your points that I agree with. Its smart that you bring up the D&D point, because even the most involved 3D MMORPGs can be stripped down and attributed back to the fundamental RPG elements of D&D. I think that advertising would be great, too! Though, I would only be willing to reach into my own wallet once I felt the game was worth advertising (certain elements ironed out first).

[PureMourning]

I apologize for the double post but it seemed logical to break up the responses since I had about a dozen more people to address!

Wow /applause. It's very very nice and surprising to see such a well thought out and detailed post like this around here.

This is JUST what Nightmist needs. I haven't played Nightmist in years personally because I just didn't think it would be worth the time to play a dying game, but I would totally return to Nightmist for this. Rob you really sound like you know what you're doing and would be perfect to head this up. Nightmist HAS to have a leader in development if it is to continue and get new people to play. JLH tossed in the towel years ago when his life got too busy and you can't blame him, but leaving the game to run itself just does not work.

And like others have said, Nightmist honestly is going to need some kind of reset if there's any hope for it growing. And there really needs to be just one server as well. Separating the small playerbase into two servers was not a good idea to begin with. I also think there needs to be some sweeping changes to balancing the game as well. While I haven't played in ages, I do know even when I played there was glaring imbalances that existed between classes, and from what I've seen things haven't changed. In fact it seems they've gotten worse.

Staff members also need to be monitored in the future. We all know how many staff have cheated and abused their powers in the past. In fact I'd be willing to bet more staff cheated than didn't cheat when you add them all up. That just shouldn't happen at all.

But yeah I'm saying now what's already been said in this thread so I'll stop. I'm just very pleased to see this thread and I really hope it comes to fruition.

Hey Mark! Thank you for well thought out response. It always makes me happy when I see you stop in to post. Not too many ultra-oldies around here anymore like you!

You pretty much hit the major issues on the head, but I do not think a total re-vamp would happen. At this point, I would mainly be interested in just recovering, adding, and maintaining objects to sharpen the game and to treat the loyal players who have been here for years. The way I see it, its like a non-profit business; but like any business, the stakeholders should always be taken into consideration (the players) and decisions should be made on their behalf to nurture a healthy relationship.

I definitely support this and know that Rob has what it takes to get the job done. We worked extensively together developing Tales of Agon, which fell through. However, his ideas and work ethic were still prevalent. Even within the realm of NightMist he seems to be very well-liked from what I can tell.

I know Rob would act professional in nature and do his best to better the game while providing a fair atmosphere for all users (i.e. unbiased).

I do not mean to turn this toward me, but I have a very good sense of game mechanics and would serve under his wing sort of thing like we did in Tales of Agon, as he can vouch as much as he would like if it came to it on my ideas, intelligence, creativity, and ethic. Honestly, I feel as if we'd make a good team, for we work well together and have a similar grasp of things, though he is a little more... advanced.

If you cba to read what I typed; supported!

Thanks for the support, Tyler! ToA was pretty hectic but it was a great learning experience indeed.