49 replies to this topic

[Freek]

Although, 2 alts in my opinion would balance the classes, and more so than 3+.
With 3+, clickers obviously become OP due to speed being a necessity with more alts, and everyone would have a cleric + 2 hitters. Look at main.
With 2 alts, you get one super crit with healing, or 2 regular hitters. It mostly seems to balance out zerks/thieves and makes other classes better since they can be paired with a cleric. The same issues eventually will show as with 1a though, 2 fighters/pallies would be useless, and 2 thieves/zerks would be very strong. A possible fix for that would be you can't log 2 of the same classes.

After reading alex's post and thinking a lot about 2a over the last couple weeks, I have came to the conclusion that not only would 2a make the current server more balanced but it would also make things more interesting. Here are my thoughts on 2a.

First lets start off with what is "wrong" with the current 1a server.

Dagger of the Winds - This makes one class the easiest and safest class to train on 1a. Not only does this class exceed well in pvm due to this but they are also very strong pvp characters at high levels.

High Tier Bosses/Player base - A lot of the high tier bosses are difficult to complete. Not just because it takes a certian number of people (who live in different time zones) but also because it takes a long time to even get to the bosses. Not only do you have to get enough people on at one time but then you have to hope they have an hour or two to spare.

Leveling 30+ - With the new system leveling to 35 is accomplished solo easily, just time consuming. However, 35+ takes a ridiculous amount of gold to achieve and I don't think that anyone besides cole has level'd to 37 without a sharer (basically 2alt).

Class Balance - As we will never know how the classes will balance out until every class achieves 40, balance isn't just about pvp. Balance leads into what a class can do solo, in a party, pvm and pvp. Right now Thieves are the dominate class due to being able to excel pvp and pvm (also because of dotw). Some classes that are really strong such as Berserker's seem to be OP. On the other hand zerks are the hardest class to solo train (pre cobalt) so do they deserve it?

Dominate Clans - Right now if you ever want to progress far into the game you either have to be in one of the two dominate clans. If you choose to be a "loner" then you are likely to get chain pk'd and never going to get past 35.

These are the "major problems" with the current server. How would 2a change these?

Dagger of the Winds - Would no longer make one class the bread and butter pvm class. Would allow any class to be trained "solo" if the player decided to take that route.

High Tier Bosses/Player base - Would be a lot easier to get a group together strong enough to take on such bosses. Instead of needing 12-13 different people it would only take 6-7.

Leveling 30+ - Would make token runs easier and would make farming gold/items more realistic.

Class balance - Would lead to more diversity due to being able to train all classes in more locations. Would change the DoTW thief game to more diversity. Also would balance pvp a little better.

Dominate Clans - Being able to due things with less people would allow a group of friends to start up their own clan and be able to accomplish things that used to only be accomplish by the dominate clans.


Anyways, this is just my thoughts on how 2a would benefit the 1a server. Yes I understand that if you want to play with alts then go play the multi server but then your just "gimping" yourself. Playing multi with 2a would be like playing a pally on 1a. Why play a pally when you could play a thief? I don't see 2a becoming a problem unlike 3a where you would see cookie cutter combos. Also I think it would change the way the current game is played. The thief and 2 dominate clan game would be more likely to change if this was implemented. I also liked Alex's idea about maybe only being able to log one of each class on but at the same time that could go either way. As in everyone running a thief/mage or everyone running two thieves.

That about sums it up.. Looking for post with a lot insight and clearly stating if you support or not and why. Also, if you do not play 1a and have no intentions on playing 2a keep it to yourself.

Edited by Freek, 15 November 2010 - 11:54 PM.

[Crane]

The main problems I'm seeing with having any alts at all is only certain combinations will start to appear... the Cleric + attacker combo will generally be the one of choice. A nasty one, which might be all but unstoppable, are two Thieves with Daggers of the Winds. Either way, Paladins will still be underused, even though they can take care of themselves.

[Apocalypto]

I see what your saying, but paladins arent really used all that much anyways. IMO, this post makes alot of sense, but im still sceptical because i agree with gareth that everyone will have a ranger/cleric or a zerker/cleric. Or 2 7 stam thieves since almost everyone in game has 1 or 2.

Edited by Apocalypto, 16 November 2010 - 02:21 PM.

[Abstract]

I like the well thought out and formulated arguments, freek. Very well done.

I would like to formally say, i approve of 2alt. But i also see that it has some draw backs. Its just right now, it would solve alot of problems (Possibly creating new ones).

Its easy to say now, that people wont play paladins. Because right now, they dont anyway. Anyone that has chosen to play a paladin during 1alt, will most likely continue to do so with 2alt. I would even be tempted when solo training, to go with a Paladin and a hitter, instead of a cleric. This would give me more attack damage to take down certain monsters quicker, while still giving me the healing ability, and survivability required. (We also know how awesome Paladins can be p v p, following your examples on main,when your paladin easily pwned my cobalt bow rangers etc, which is a large incentive)

This is not for staff to discuss anymore though,and you are all probably sick of me giving my opinion! This post is purely for players input into how this would change the game.

Please ask yourself :

- Would it be much different to 1alt now?

- Would it benefit the 1alt server?

- Would you consider playing more?

- Would it bring back older players?

You can say that, its not the multi alt server. Its 1alt. But if you cant see the inherant differences between using 2 alts, and twenty, you obviously dont play enough.

We are looking to improve the game, and if that means changing how the game is played, we will do that.

Also, even if you are for/against increasing the alt limit, would you support a trial period where 2 alts were available. Just to see how it goes. (We can spend months theorising what people would do, but until it actually happens we will never know).

- Jase.

ps. Congratulations to Jordan for a well thought out post, that is not purely based on what would increase there own wealth. More like this, and nightmist will have a playerbase that rivals WoW.

[Crane]

That is true... a Paladin paired with a hitter might make a fairly good combination. Admittedly it won't top a Cleric casting Enhance on them, but it would help, especially as the Paladin is quite the meat shield and can take a lot of damage through armour absorption or Holy Speed / Divine Prayer (for the Dexterity boosts).

I confess that if I played on that server more often and it became 2-alt, by pairing of choice would probably be a Druid and a Paladin - reasonably good damage and very self-sufficient, with the high armour helping to minimise any heals that are necessary, and a buff of Champion's Strength if I want a little bit of extra damage. If the Paladin had a Sword of Light as well, then they would be lethal against the undead.

They are very good arguments, I agree. I admit I'm starting to waver a bit between 1-alt and 2-alt! I would want to see the Dagger of the Winds modified a little bit so a pair of Thieves using them are not the dominant force in the Universe.

I do feel that switching it to 2-alt is a bit of a desperate move, but considering much of the realm was designed with multi-alt in mind, I can understand why, considering all things, it is a good approach, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to not evaluate things like the Dagger of the Winds and levelling costs.

[Autek]

I can say that I personally wouldn't be sticking around. I played on one or three characters on main, depending if I were training or not, and it was insanely easy. I came back to 1-Alt for the challenge of doing it on one character. If it weren't for the obscene leveling costs beyond level 35, people would be leveling in no time. And you can't say 'well if you want to play on one character, you still can' because if that were the case nobody would be playing 1-Alt, they'd still be playing main. If you aren't using all the characters you can you are just selling yourself short and being inefficient.

Sort of got off on a tangent there. I admit I may not be the typical player on Nightmist, but I'd be headed back to main.


I think a better solution than trying to fix all of the problems with 1-Alt with one thing that we really don't have a good idea of how it will affect things, we should just tackle the problems themselves. All we need to get past the thought that if someone will get screwed by fixing an old problem, e.g. leveling costs, it can't be done. It needs to be done! There were a ton of people who quit putting experience on their characters at level 30 on the main server before leveling was allowed to go past 30. They were put at an immediate disadvantage when everyone else who had was able to level their characters several levels above those who didn't level. Those people got screwed, but guess what, it was better for the game as a whole!

Lets just fix the problems like that. The classes need balanced. Some people will win out after the changes, others will be screwed. That's just the reality of it, but the game will be better moving forward. Bosses that can't be killed anymore could be nerfed. The people who managed to get the drops when the bosses were far more difficult would get screwed in seeing that their ultra rare items are now attainable again. It would be better for the game going forward though, by giving the player base much more to do! Every problem can be fixed like this. Let's just fix the glaring problems on the server and move on, with a better game that is balanced at the core.

[Gnarkill]

Not supported. I feel this would be a desperate move and a short term fix just like making main nopk was. A few random inputs below.

-Since DOTW is one of the main points of complaining since 1a started.. its time to do something about it. Either remove it and offer refunds to those with them, or make and balance vampiric 350k gold weapons for each class.

-I see enough people on 1a daily to accomplish killing any boss in-game.. its not staff or anyone elses fault but the playerbase's that we have so much drama and immaturity on the server that we can't get it together enough to work as a team to do the High Tier bosses once and a while.

-leveling 30+ is a peice of cake with the new system in place. It may take some time but you can either take the time to do it yourself or take the time to get people to do tokens.. 35+ may take some tweaking in the gold needed to level department but changing to 2a to make leveling 35+ easier gold wise is silly.

-Balancing does need to be done, instead of staff spending time trying to shake things up by changing the whole server, why not just sit down and take the time to figure all of the balancing issues class/boss whatever needs to be done.

-As for the clan issue ..thats all the playerbase. Sadly we all can't act grown up and accomplish thigns as a group because due to people's online egos we can't set aside rivalries for more than 5 mins without someone coming in and ruining it for the whole group thats trying to do something. Which leads me to a suggestion:

Remove the ability for clan founders to see location or make it toggle. People suggested it before but nothing was done because it was "why are you in a clan where you cannot trust people" well... there are 2 major clans and to regularly boss you need to be in one..most clans run on "vote to get in" rules of course not everyone is gonna get along.. and it would be nice to have the option of hiding loc from the founders that you do not get along with.

-The main people I see posting for this arguement are people who either have 2 big alts or have access to using 2 big alts already, those people will in turn probably start pking and ruining things for everyone who doesn't making even more people turn to main or leave completely.

-The Poll that was held says it all:
19 for 1a
7 for 2a
8 for 3a
1 for 5a

add all the others together and you still get more for 1a than against. why is there even another topic about it?

-In closing I would like to say that I think just up and changing it to 2a is a BIG mistake in my opinion. The only way it can be done properly is closing down 1a, balancing and restructuring then opening it back up as 2a with a FULL RESET(which noone will go for).. and if you're gonna do all that why not just balance it how it is? I see this as another "nm quick fix" and don't get why people feel the need that NM needs to shift to cater to thier wants or needs anytime they get bored or cant work with others well. thats what main is for.. 1a is supposed to be cooperative and its noone's fault but the playerbases that it isnt more co-op.

[Apocalypto]

that poll also has me and jordan as 1a votes, at the least amount of people who had a change of mind. Mind came from this post. But ill post later. on lunch lol.

[Abstract]

It also has alot of multiple, same user accounts who voted for 1alt. Just so you know.

Valid points, from two people who mostly play main.

[Cruxis]

More from my other post that Jordan quoted. It has my views, some suggestions, as well as some added things not in the original post. Some things, in a form, will be repeated, sorry bout it.

"Personally, I'd like to keep it 1a. Though 2a would fix alot of our problems, I believe staff putting the time in to make the game better for 1 character would be better.

1. Dotw is extremely over powered.
2. Playing is becoming very repetitive for people, hitting the same monsters over and over.
3. The only class, thats practical to level without a cobalt staff of the winds, is a thief.
4. With the playerbase diminishing, it is making it extremely difficult for people to achieve certain things (Leveling, etc).
5. The 35+ leveling system requires too much gold.

1. Lower the BD or lower the vamp, take it out of game, or make some vamp weapons for other classes that are as attainable as DoTW. Sadly this would devalue some of the recent quest items.
2. This will always be true for most online games, the only cure is consistently added content. 1a has alot of content undone, we don't need more, we need to make other content more easily available. Though, some of it also needs to be made sensible, the standard seems to be about 4k gold for 1m exp solo, balance some existing under used areas gold/pod, or better, depending on how hard they are to get to or survive in (i.e., if you need a party to train there as opposed to being able to train there solo, disregarding if you needed a party to get there, if you can train solo there, it should have solo standards). Gold also needs to be balanced with the hp though. That would take awhile, but not every area would need to be redone, just a few, preferably far out ones.

Though, perhaps maybe a small lvl 35+ area or two with extremely good gold or 100+ pod that's also good gold, something only for the very high lvls. No boss needed, but perhaps can be added whenever extra time is had.

Because of new mana, fewer people can do longer trips, that's good (wonder how many it'd take to do imhotep with superior mana). If certain healing monsters/bosses were able to be killed faster/easier, the game would be much more active in moving around in parties in areas and taking down bosses. Atm I'd lean toward making 8 people (not specifically all on zerks, maybe account for 3) being able to do the hardest stuff, 5 being able to do the moderate stuff. 3 can pretty much do the easy stuff now, no need to edit those. Aswell, some drops should be upped a bit, but not too much, no more than 50% more of their current % (40% drop would go to 60%). Mostly thinking of imhotep/kunal in that area. Credenza hasn't been killed, so judging if it's drop rates need to be tampered with his hard, but it probably does. Chapel Key and Sword of Light may need to be looked at aswell, I hear they're very low, even by main standards. Most people on main wouldn't want more than 1 or 2 swords anyway, so a low rate is easily justified, but everyone on 1a with a pally would want one.

The clans have been moderately working together lately, but nowhere near enough to rape imhotep or Tirantek regularly. This will probably increase tensions and stop any co op that's been going on between the rival clans lately. Might draw back some of the more of the bloodthirsty type.

3. Only because of dotw, see point 1.
4. The worst problem imo. The only cure is either more alts, stronger single characters, or weakening of healing bosses. Stronger mana will allow for fewer people on longer trips, now they just need to be able to pwn that ending boss. Aswell, many people who still play are either in their lower or mid 20s, and are starting to log less and less because of life, the game pace is simply to slow to keep them logging for just that hour of free time they have.

From what I said above, I beleving increasing the drop rate of items and making it easier to get to/kill certain bosses will increase the pace of the game for people who can't log more than a couple of hours a day.

5. Simply enough, lower the gold? 1m, 2m, ect instead of double that is probably fine. Also helping the pace of the game.

Seriously 30m to lvl 40? Main is 5m to 40 from 35, yeah you gotta do 20 crits, but you also make gold 20 (17 if only counting attackers I guess) times as fast, so it should be exactly (about) the same amount by the math. I understand they're different games, so if this doesn't matter, disregard. Though 1m, 2m, ect makes to 15m, much more than main, and definitely a good price imo.

Edit: I'ma bad speller.
Edit2: Also, COMPLETE support for DJs idea to make it so founders can't see where clannies are.

Edited by Cruxis, 17 November 2010 - 03:13 AM.

[Freek]

@DJ

"I see enough people on 1a daily to accomplish killing any boss in-game.. its not staff or anyone else's fault but the player-base's that we have so much drama and immaturity on the server that we can't get it together enough to work as a team to do the High Tier bosses once and a while."

Rivalry is a huge part of Nightmist. Without the harsh competitiveness of the player-base Nightmist wouldn't be Nightmist. You can't compare game mechanics to peoples attitudes.

"Balancing does need to be done, instead of staff spending time trying to shake things up by changing the whole server, why not just sit down and take the time to figure all of the balancing issues class/boss whatever needs to be done."

There is only so much Staff can do as far as changing the game mechanics. A lot of things needed to make a change take JLH. JLH has also publicly said that he doesn't have enough time to make ever change needed for the staff to be able to balance. Yes there are some things like tweaking bosses and gear etc, but as Alex has said in a previous post tweaking all the little things one by one would not only take staff millions of hours to balance but it would also need players to test each time. It's almost impossible, yes 2a would be a "quick fix" but if its fixing problems its better then nothing at this point.

"As for the clan issue ..thats all the player-base. Sadly we all can't act grown up and accomplish things as a group because due to people's online egos we can't set aside rivalries for more than 5 mins without someone coming in and ruining it for the whole group thats trying to do something."

Again, rivalry is important. You can't expect people to choose to help out the rivals knowing that it will probably come back to hurt you in return. I agree there are some things that go a little to far, but all in all the rivalry is the only thing keeping the server going.

The main people I see posting for this argument are people who either have 2 big alts or have access to using 2 big alts already, those people will in turn probably start pking and ruining things for everyone who doesn't making even more people turn to main or leave completely.

I myself only have 3 characters above 30. A 32 mage, 36 druid and 37 druid. Each of these are used by someone in my account already. I don't see how making it 2a will benefit me directly.

"The Poll that was held says it all:
19 for 1a
7 for 2a
8 for 3a
1 for 5a"

You can't expect to post a poll out of the blue and get people to accommodate change. What should of happened was a discussion (like so) that explained the benefits of the change and let players voice there opinions before jumping to conclusion. I myself voted for 1a and after giving it lots of thought have decided that 2a sounds a lot more balanced and interesting then 1a.

Theres no need for me to comment on the closer because its already been said in this post.

Also, for the argument of "if it became 2a people would reach 40 easier" whats so wrong with that? Is it better that the "unspoken" rule on 1a currently is to leave characters at 35-36 and call that end game?

That about sums it up for now. I wish more people would voice there opinions on the matter. And I would love to see a Trial period because as you said, we can play theory craft all day but will never know until its tested.

Edited by Freek, 17 November 2010 - 03:02 AM.

[Peacemaker]

Dont care if it changes although i would like to be told ahead of time instead of it just being implemented that way i have time to prepare.

[Freek]

Dont care if it changes although i would like to be told ahead of time instead of it just being implemented that way i have time to prepare.

Agreed.

[Gnarkill]

I really wish it would have been all balanced before it was opened to avoid all the problems 1a has ran into along the way. As Autek said I doubt I would continue to play if it was 2a because I could just get that on main, bummer I was just getting into 1a again since I can only be on 1 char at work.

[Cruxis]

I like how Jordan wants 2a when it wouldn't benefit him much, but I'd rather have 1a when I have like 7 crits over lvl 30.

I lol'd

To make this not spam, though I perfer 1a, I am not against a 2a trial period. Infact, making it 2a till staff doing all the things they can to make it better for 1a just may be the best idea of all. ***Would be a weird transition back and forth but I think people would adjust. The people who are still playing are probably addicted the community if not the game, odds are they're gonna stay aslong as their stuff isn't deleted and there's still some kind of progress to be made, especially if the playerbase picks up.***

Also, though nit picking every last detail of class balancing would take a few thousand hours without JLH, a rough, though decent balancing, much more pleasant then our current system, would only take probably about 200 hours. That's still alot of time considering it's volunteer work though, and would take a year for us to see anything. Sounds like effort even to me, game being realistically "completable" and thus more entertaining first please

Edit The ***

Edited by Cruxis, 17 November 2010 - 03:45 AM.

[Apocalypto]

You could still be on 1 character. I personally wouldnt care if it stayed the same, but if it were to change to 2a i wouldnt have a complain either. It would be a quick fix, which in my opinion isnt a bad thing. It honestly would make just about every boss that we havent completed possible, as well as making clan diversity an actual possibility.

edit: totally agree about the odds being with the people staying for the community and the game rather than a single character difference in the alt limit(not to make it sound light,as it is double, but i think you get the point).

Edited by Apocalypto, 17 November 2010 - 03:48 AM.

[Freek]

I like how Jordan wants 2a when it wouldn't benefit him much, but I'd rather have 1a when I have like 7 crits over lvl 30.

To make this not spam, though I perfer 1a, I am not against a 2a trial period. Infact, making it 2a till staff doing all the things they can to make it better for 1a just may be the best idea of all. ***Would be a weird transition back and forth but I think people would adjust. The people who are still playing are probably addicted the community if not the game, odds are they're gonna stay aslong as their stuff isn't deleted and there's still some kind of progress to be made, especially if the playerbase picks up.***

Agree with fully.

I really wish it would have been all balanced before it was opened to avoid all the problems 1a has ran into along the way. As Autek said I doubt I would continue to play if it was 2a because I could just get that on main, bummer I was just getting into 1a again since I can only be on 1 char at work.

Could do 1a on main..

Edited by Freek, 17 November 2010 - 04:36 AM.

[Autek]

I think Gnarkill was saying that because he'd like to play at full efficiency (playing the maximum amount of characters allowed) but he couldn't any longer if it were to go to 2 alts.

[Kush]

Dont agree with it at all. You want more alts to play at one time, go to main. 2alt would kill the purpose of 1alt and needing others to accomplish something, bosses would all need to be upgraded among with other little stuff. Join a Clan that is active and has members, they can be ur other alt.

[Horny]

Dont agree with it at all. You want more alts to play at one time, go to main. 2alt would kill the purpose of 1alt and needing others to accomplish something, bosses would all need to be upgraded among with other little stuff. Join a Clan that is active and has members, they can be ur other alt.

When will you people understand they CAN'T PLAY MAIN CAUSE THEY ARE BANNED


Seriously, is it that hard to figure out? They would probably play main if they could. Well, not like any ban is permanent but would you really risk everything you built on 1alt to see if you like main better? I know I wouldn't.

But I agree, those who voted for 2alt and CAN go to main, SHOULD go to main.

Edited by Horny, 17 November 2010 - 09:45 AM.

[Abstract]

Kush, saying that increasing the alt limit to TWO would "kill the purpose of needing others to acomplish things" is the most rediculous thing i have read in this thread. Have you tryed to do Kunal on 2 alts? Have you tryed to do Kunal AT ALL?

2Alt would still require alot of cooperation to acomplish things. Instead of 14 people, you would require 7-8.

2Alt would durastically alter how the game is played, for the better in my opinion.

[Cadabra]

Why not just make a copy of 1-alt (Accounts n all that), make it 2-alt, run it for a month and see how it works out.

Make a thread for the feedback and its win.

[Abstract]

Yeh thats what we would do if this was implimented. It would be ran under a trial period to see how it went.

[Stig]

I don't think JLH will set up another separate Nightmist server, mostly due to logistics and maintenance costs. Anything that is to be tested and trialled has to be done on the live servers.

[Freek]

Dont agree with it at all. You want more alts to play at one time, go to main. 2alt would kill the purpose of 1alt and needing others to accomplish something, bosses would all need to be upgraded among with other little stuff. Join a Clan that is active and has members, they can be ur other alt.

When will you people understand they CAN'T PLAY MAIN CAUSE THEY ARE BANNED


Seriously, is it that hard to figure out? They would probably play main if they could. Well, not like any ban is permanent but would you really risk everything you built on 1alt to see if you like main better? I know I wouldn't.

But I agree, those who voted for 2alt and CAN go to main, SHOULD go to main.

<Can go to main so I don't know where you were trying to go with this.

Again, Why would you go to main and only play 2alts? Pointless and that argument makes no sense. I could play 1a on main why don't I do that? At least leveling would be cheaper? Whats the point?


@Kush

2alt would still need people to accomplish it, it just wouldn't split the player-base in half. Either suck it up and play with people in DA or Pande or don't do anything.


Can people who don't support the change come up with anything more logical then "Omg theres a multi server"?


Edit: On a side note there were 35 votes on the poll. Yet only 11 people have voiced there opinions. Are the other 24 people real or just not have anything to say?

Edited by Freek, 17 November 2010 - 04:35 PM.

[Autek]

Can people who don't support the change come up with anything more logical then "Omg theres a multi server"?

Read my post above man. Rather than fixing old problems with potentially new problems, why not just fix those old problems? Balance the game like they should have done for however many years they've let the DotW etc. problems run rampant.

EDIT: I think that some balance to the server would perk some interest in the game again alone, rather than a radical change. People won't get bored following the same old blueprint (play a thief until they get a cobalt, then switch over to a zerk or druid).

Edited by Autek, 17 November 2010 - 04:58 PM.

[Freek]

Can people who don't support the change come up with anything more logical then "Omg theres a multi server"?

Read my post above man. Rather than fixing old problems with potentially new problems, why not just fix those old problems? Balance the game like they should have done for however many years they've let the DotW etc. problems run rampant.

EDIT: I think that some balance to the server would perk some interest in the game again alone, rather than a radical change. People won't get bored following the same old blueprint (play a thief until they get a cobalt, then switch over to a zerk or druid).

That wasn't aimed directly at you. And I agree it would be nice if the current server would be balanced, but thats highly unlikely.

[Dangerous]

Change is bad mk, i'd rather monotonously kill HL or Adel for the rest of my nightmist days cuz oh so fun! anyways that sarcasm if you haven't picked up on it, but yeah 2alt iunno might spark some interest again cuz in its current state all i can say is $%£* Nightmist

[Cruxis]

As Autek said, and I've said before.

"Not fixing a problem is better than letting the problem escalate over time?"

A few, quick fixes are possible, screw who you will piss off. Hell I'll be pissed, but I'll still play if it means the game will be better. Just don't delete stuff and it'd be hard to drive away the remaining players who are obviously very loyal or very bored with life.

The only person to reach level 40, doesn't really much play, and doesn't have much anything to work for without starting a new character. They will get over it if the prices are lowered. Hell, she may even become more active to start another character thinking "thank god I won't have to go through that again."

Right now, most thieves who abused dotw are stuck at 36, and only use their dotw to make gold for their other crits, or for easy bossing (too bad no boss taken down atm needs more than a single cleric). Making it easier to level will give dotw more value for them, and thus changing it would be a difficult decision. DO IT ANYWAY. They will get over it. They're playing now with nothing to do but gold/pk, or lvling a zerk with balt. This will be better for the game in the long run, trust me.

Still, 2a till staff do what they can to make the game better for 1a imo, though really changing the bosses/certain monsters on way to the boss; is the only thing that would take time, how many bosses need to be made easier/raised drop rates? Only a handful.

Less thinking, we've had enough, and more action. Experimenting and observation give much more credible opinions than just thinking. Anything obvious like boss killing and class combos, and much easier golding, has been stated, it's time to decide what to do with all the information you've been given.

Only 2 people have come out against 2a with any valid point, and that's game effectiveness. One of these people have their main as a paladin, I don't think they know much about playing the game effectively. I say go ahead and give JLH the okay to 2a, and depending on how it goes, decide if you wanna balance for 2a or 1a.

It seems anyone who wants 2a just wants the game to be easier in the bosses/leveling department. That can be done keeping 1a, though 2a till all that can be done would make people happy now, and later, instead of just later if we waited for balancing.

In short, DO IT.

Edit: When I say balancing, I don't mean class balancing, obviously that's about unrealistic with 1a, though taking away DotW would help that issue (or better imo, make vamp weapons for all the other classes).

You can trust I have no bias. Having 2 of all classes (only 1 fighter), most of them 30+, my acct would DOMINATE 2a, though I want 1a. I have one of three vamp bows ingame, yet I'm okay with adding more vamp weapons for all classes, thus making the sexiest item I own pretty worthless. I really just want what's best for the game in the long run, and I strongly believe what I stated is the way.

Edited by Cruxis, 17 November 2010 - 07:52 PM.

[Autek]

One of these people have their main as a paladin, I don't think they know much about playing the game effectively.

Lol I just play a paladin these days because I don't want to roll as a thief until I get a cobalt etc. like 95% of the other people play. I was one of the first level 35's in the game, and as a druid, not a thief. (/who Neo, I leveled that character 1-35 completely on my own years ago)