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Unknown Brew #124470
#1
Posted 30 December 2008 - 11:41 PM
This may not be too drastic a change on main, where a single player can carry 20 crits full of brews(14*20=280...280*75=21,000 hp regain). On 1 alt though, there is a drastic reduction. One character can carry 14 brews(14*75=1,050) From the reduction, every crit looses 350 health points.
Now let us talk about mana water. Mana water lets you regain 75 mana points. On a cleric, 75 mana points can cast 9.375 Divine Restoration spells(8 mana to cast) An average DR spell deals about 100-112 health point regain.so for 50 gold and a cleric, you can cast about 1k in hp regain.
Not everyone runs around on a thief on 1a. Not everyone has a vamp weapon at their disposal. 350 hp reduction per char is a kick in the head. And if you are a magic caster other then a cleric, then you really loose out, or fork over more gold to buy advanced pots.
But buying advanced potions makes no sense, since you already sacrificed 3 crystal rings to trade for a guild of crafters membership ring. That in itself is a 375k investment just to be able to buy the flasks in the tower in the meadow. Originally the flask cost 5 gold, but last year sometime it was changed to 50 gold. Maybe it is just me, but that semes like a big enough sacrifice, maybe we over on 1a do not need to have 25 hp per brew taken away.
Please discuss.
#2
Posted 30 December 2008 - 11:44 PM
#3
Posted 31 December 2008 - 12:00 AM
Mainly with what Walt said, with 20 characters it'll be fine.
When you have 1 character, then you can't afford to loose this much HP per trip after you've spent all that money on the guild ring!
#4
Posted 31 December 2008 - 03:34 AM
ADDENDUM: An announcement would have been nice on multi, or on the forum, since such a small thing is quite a major change, but thank you for warning us on 1-alt, Wes.
Edited by Crane, 31 December 2008 - 05:41 AM.
Main crits:
Crane
Europa
Don't kill the
#5
Posted 31 December 2008 - 05:41 PM
I disagree.
Further, on the main server, I do not think you can just fill an inventory with Empty Flasks and drop them into some cauldron to get all of the Unknown Brews. If you can, it should never have been set to being possible.
However, the 1-alt server got this easy potion making because of a staff member who changed a bunch of things without consulting ANYONE else on the staff team.
The brews have basically been a bug that has been left to fester for ages.
The cost should not be all that much less than the cost of Advanced Healing Potions.
You can still buy Advanced Healing Potions anyway, so it isn't as if there are no full healing potions in-game.
-Proverbs 4:7
#6
Posted 31 December 2008 - 07:28 PM
#7
Posted 31 December 2008 - 08:23 PM
#8
Posted 31 December 2008 - 08:43 PM
Edited by Tietsu, 31 December 2008 - 08:46 PM.
#9
Posted 31 December 2008 - 11:23 PM
Character Name: Wind on both servers!
#10
Posted 01 January 2009 - 12:16 AM
#11
Posted 01 January 2009 - 05:21 AM
So, you should get---essentially free healing potions at all times on the 1-alt server?
I disagree.
Further, on the main server, I do not think you can just fill an inventory with Empty Flasks and drop them into some cauldron to get all of the Unknown Brews. If you can, it should never have been set to being possible.
However, the 1-alt server got this easy potion making because of a staff member who changed a bunch of things without consulting ANYONE else on the staff team.
The brews have basically been a bug that has been left to fester for ages.
The cost should not be all that much less than the cost of Advanced Healing Potions.
You can still buy Advanced Healing Potions anyway, so it isn't as if there are no full healing potions in-game.
Gaddy i mean no disrespect here, but, you don't even play the 1-alt server, nor have you played it enough to know what it takes to play the server, they absolutely are not free potions, you do know you have to spend 3 crystal rings to even get the guild ring to allow you to get into the area, do you know how long it takes to get 3 crystal rings for 1 person on the 1-alt server? And yes, you can do it on main, but it has little to no point on the main server, nobody can pk there, and the only thing people really use pots for is to pk, or to kill malok on thieves, on the 1-alt server everybody needs to use pots, not just thieves.
And before you go knocking that staff member who "didn't consult anyone", stop and take a look at all he did in that short ammount of time, expect a few bugs to be there, and no offense, but i don't see you trying to balance anything out, i just see you shooting down post's that have some actual meaning to this server, you know i have alot of respect for you as a player, and we have been friends for years, but you are wrong in this situation.
The logical thing to do would be to raise the price of brews to 100, leave the hp gain at 100, otherwise, what was the point of me taking my 3 crystal rings to turn into 1 guild ring? So i can go buy pots that are basically useless to me?
If the brews are going to to stay the way they are, then players should be given the opportunity to break down guild rings back to crystal rings, because im not going to pay 3 crystal rings for the chance at buying worse pots than i can just buy for 200 gold, essentially, the brews do cost more than the advanced healing potion, because of the investment put into them.
Plus you have to level a mage to 20 before you can even take advantage of the brews, because you have to cast vortex gate to even get into the room where you give the flask's to the cauldron.
Like i said, i don't mean any disrespect here, but you really need to take a look at everything that goes into it before you decide what is right or wrong.
#12
Posted 01 January 2009 - 01:34 PM
Edited by Tietsu, 01 January 2009 - 01:38 PM.
#13
Posted 01 January 2009 - 03:09 PM
So, you should get---essentially free healing potions at all times on the 1-alt server?
I disagree.
Further, on the main server, I do not think you can just fill an inventory with Empty Flasks and drop them into some cauldron to get all of the Unknown Brews. If you can, it should never have been set to being possible.
However, the 1-alt server got this easy potion making because of a staff member who changed a bunch of things without consulting ANYONE else on the staff team.
The brews have basically been a bug that has been left to fester for ages.
The cost should not be all that much less than the cost of Advanced Healing Potions.
You can still buy Advanced Healing Potions anyway, so it isn't as if there are no full healing potions in-game.
Gaddy i mean no disrespect here, but, you don't even play the 1-alt server, nor have you played it enough to know what it takes to play the server, they absolutely are not free potions, you do know you have to spend 3 crystal rings to even get the guild ring to allow you to get into the area, do you know how long it takes to get 3 crystal rings for 1 person on the 1-alt server? And yes, you can do it on main, but it has little to no point on the main server, nobody can pk there, and the only thing people really use pots for is to pk, or to kill malok on thieves, on the 1-alt server everybody needs to use pots, not just thieves.
And before you go knocking that staff member who "didn't consult anyone", stop and take a look at all he did in that short ammount of time, expect a few bugs to be there, and no offense, but i don't see you trying to balance anything out, i just see you shooting down post's that have some actual meaning to this server, you know i have alot of respect for you as a player, and we have been friends for years, but you are wrong in this situation.
The logical thing to do would be to raise the price of brews to 100, leave the hp gain at 100, otherwise, what was the point of me taking my 3 crystal rings to turn into 1 guild ring? So i can go buy pots that are basically useless to me?
If the brews are going to to stay the way they are, then players should be given the opportunity to break down guild rings back to crystal rings, because im not going to pay 3 crystal rings for the chance at buying worse pots than i can just buy for 200 gold, essentially, the brews do cost more than the advanced healing potion, because of the investment put into them.
Plus you have to level a mage to 20 before you can even take advantage of the brews, because you have to cast vortex gate to even get into the room where you give the flask's to the cauldron.
Like i said, i don't mean any disrespect here, but you really need to take a look at everything that goes into it before you decide what is right or wrong.
/clap
Well said.
#14
Posted 01 January 2009 - 03:52 PM
#15
Posted 01 January 2009 - 04:13 PM
With no disrespect my Gadster. I would love to see you come over to 1 Alt. The bueaty of having you on main was that you were so consumed with the details. You worked tirelessly to work out all the details creating some interesting things. But I agree with JP on this.
#16
Posted 02 January 2009 - 12:37 AM
![:ph34r:](http://www.nightmist-online.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
Ingame:
Scripto (Staff)
Kannabis (Mortal)
#17
Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:20 AM
#18
Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:20 AM
- Have an NPC in the Isolated Apartment who demands a payment of 40 gold (for example) and accuses you of being a thief if you try to dip an Empty Flask into the Dark Cauldron.
- Only get an Unknown Brew #124470 when you give an Empty Flask and 40 gold to the Dark Cauldron.
- Reduce the price of the Empty Flask back to 5 gold.
- Adjust the description of the Isolated Apartment slightly, since there is now an NPC in it.
As for the NPC and the exchanges...
Eztil rocks back and forth in his rocking chair, wrapped snugly in his royal blue robes, sleeping peacefully and dreaming what only sorcerers dream. A wand rests delicately under his hand, partially obscured by a long, shaggy white beard. Eztil is in a healthy condition.
- If you try to give an Empty Flask to the Dark Cauldron: You get the Empty Flask back and... Eztil suddenly awakes with a start and jabs his wand threateningly at %user. <newline> Eztil: WHAT?! Who goes there?! You want a sample of my secret brew, little thief? You'll have to pay the price... 40 gold should suffice; otherwise I could blast you into oblivion. Either outcome suits me fine. <newline> With that, Eztil relaxes back into his chair and dozes off again.
- If you give an Empty Flask and 40 gold to the Dark Cauldron: You get one Unknown Brew #124470. Eztil opens an eye as %user drops 40 gold into his lap. <newline> Eztil: Aah, I'm glad to see you young-uns have some sense... and some respect... goodnight! <newline> Eztil sinks peacefully back into his chair and falls asleep.
(%user, I believe, will be automatically placed with the name of the crit who made the exchange)
All this assumes that the price is 40 gold (change all references as you see fit) and the Dark Cauldron won't be used elsewhere.
EDIT: Colouring.
Edited by Crane, 02 January 2009 - 01:23 AM.
Main crits:
Crane
Europa
Don't kill the
#19
Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:33 AM
#20
Posted 02 January 2009 - 01:40 AM
Not even if it's comma-separated? Drat! So much for that idea...it would have to be an amount of gold for a money order since you can't give a certain amount of gold along with an item at the same time to an npc
Main crits:
Crane
Europa
Don't kill the
#21
Posted 02 January 2009 - 08:47 AM
So, you should get---essentially free healing potions at all times on the 1-alt server?
I disagree.
Further, on the main server, I do not think you can just fill an inventory with Empty Flasks and drop them into some cauldron to get all of the Unknown Brews. If you can, it should never have been set to being possible.
However, the 1-alt server got this easy potion making because of a staff member who changed a bunch of things without consulting ANYONE else on the staff team.
The brews have basically been a bug that has been left to fester for ages.
The cost should not be all that much less than the cost of Advanced Healing Potions.
You can still buy Advanced Healing Potions anyway, so it isn't as if there are no full healing potions in-game.
Gaddy i mean no disrespect here, but, you don't even play the 1-alt server, nor have you played it enough to know what it takes to play the server, they absolutely are not free potions, you do know you have to spend 3 crystal rings to even get the guild ring to allow you to get into the area, do you know how long it takes to get 3 crystal rings for 1 person on the 1-alt server? And yes, you can do it on main, but it has little to no point on the main server, nobody can pk there, and the only thing people really use pots for is to pk, or to kill malok on thieves, on the 1-alt server everybody needs to use pots, not just thieves.
And before you go knocking that staff member who "didn't consult anyone", stop and take a look at all he did in that short ammount of time, expect a few bugs to be there, and no offense, but i don't see you trying to balance anything out, i just see you shooting down post's that have some actual meaning to this server, you know i have alot of respect for you as a player, and we have been friends for years, but you are wrong in this situation.
The logical thing to do would be to raise the price of brews to 100, leave the hp gain at 100, otherwise, what was the point of me taking my 3 crystal rings to turn into 1 guild ring? So i can go buy pots that are basically useless to me?
If the brews are going to to stay the way they are, then players should be given the opportunity to break down guild rings back to crystal rings, because im not going to pay 3 crystal rings for the chance at buying worse pots than i can just buy for 200 gold, essentially, the brews do cost more than the advanced healing potion, because of the investment put into them.
Plus you have to level a mage to 20 before you can even take advantage of the brews, because you have to cast vortex gate to even get into the room where you give the flask's to the cauldron.
Like i said, i don't mean any disrespect here, but you really need to take a look at everything that goes into it before you decide what is right or wrong.
Nothing you said disagrees with my post.
The potions were too cheap is basically the only thing I said.
Further, no, I do not play the 1-alt server, and so, I didn't edit the item.
I agree with it being changed though; potions should not be near free, no matter if you have produced a crafting ring or not.
-Proverbs 4:7
#22
Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:47 AM
I think all classes appart from pacifists should be removed, then we can all be hippies and play nice together
Inappropriate Avatar - Crane
#23
Posted 02 January 2009 - 09:51 AM
About the breaking down bit. It's so unfair right? How about if your boss says here take this product that was built to work for 20, and now only works for one. Oh by the way it's already operational. It will not be shut down. It will not be held off. It will not be reset. Enjoy! Thats not fair either. It happened though. So as a player should you get some thing back because of a little(being a relavent term) change to the game. I think not.
Edited by «¤ºxXl3úÐXxº¤», 02 January 2009 - 09:53 AM.
#24
Posted 02 January 2009 - 02:50 PM
![:ph34r:](http://www.nightmist-online.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
#25
Posted 02 January 2009 - 03:21 PM
The cost per empty flask has been 50 gold for almost a year and a half now.The main issue is the cost of Empty Flasks... originally they were 5 gold apiece, being cheaper than the cheapest potion going, the Basic Healing Potion. Unfortunately, 5 gold is too cheap for 75 HP, even with a Guild of Crafters Membership Ring; I would like to recommend something like 30 gold, or 25, as was mentioned above.
So, you should get---essentially free healing potions at all times on the 1-alt server?
I disagree.
How is sacrificing 3 Crystal Rings, as well as obtaining a level 20 mage with the spell vortex gate getting free healing potions?
Further, on the main server, I do not think you can just fill an inventory with Empty Flasks and drop them into some cauldron to get all of the Unknown Brews. If you can, it should never have been set to being possible.
From my understanding, talking with a few players who played main as well as 1a, the way to make the unknown brews is the exact same way on both servers. And from my understanding, it has always been this way.
The brews have basically been a bug that has been left to fester for ages.
You and I spent a bit of time talking about different things months ago when you went semi active on 1a Gaddy. Issues of balancing, between classes and races, different bosses, etc. This is the only "fix" the Team can come up with? It feels to me it is somewaht on the lines of how you fixed the whole "Malok Area being thieves only", by just simply reducing the resale value of the CK. Not only did that not fix an issue all the players on 1a had interest in, but it did not deter the ones who did train down there from just simpky still going down there, and still train in peace without fear of being pked by any other class. Quick fixes do not work, you and I both know that.
The cost should not be all that much less than the cost of Advanced Healing Potions.
You can still buy Advanced Healing Potions anyway, so it isn't as if there are no full healing potions in-game.
You can also take the crafting feature for the brews and mana water out of the game all together can you not? If you think that making brews is an economic disaster for NM, then remove it completely, from both servers. Also, give the players who took time in aquiring 3 Crystal Rings to make the Guild Ring an option to have those 3 rings returned to them. Yes, I can still buy Advanced Pots, and honestly, I would take this feature over taking 15-20 minutes every 2 days to make my stash of Unkown Brews and storing them in my vault. It would also free up alot of space in my account vault, as well as my clan house vault for other things I could have in there, instead of stored on "vault chars".
This one I will speak of only in ticket form only.However, the 1-alt server got this easy potion making because of a staff member who changed a bunch of things without consulting ANYONE else on the staff team.
they need a new reason to pregnant dog when something doesnt go there way
FYI, I was speaking to JLH about this in MSN, and he is the one who told me to bring it to the forums so all could discuss. You sir, on the other hand, complain just about anything and everything(and yes, I have seen some things copy/pasted in pages).
Will deffinately make a Thief think twice about popping in on someone that can't be clicked. That's all thieves have going for them. Again, this hurts MAINLY thieves, especially the low levels with a Vampiric Dagger who can't essentially survive with the vampiric weapon alone. Always was my personal opinion that DoTW should never have existed on 1-ALT, it was an atrocity that put way too much money in the game. In my aspect, sacrificing Unknown Brews for more expennsive Advanced Potions takes money out of the game. SUCCESS
Sorry to inform you on this issue, but the only low lvl thieves this will hrut are the ones not in Pande, for as you see, only 2 members of this clan have less then arch thieves. And I will agree with you on this, taking gold out of the game will be a success, so why not just do away with the brew/mana water period?
#26
Posted 02 January 2009 - 06:50 PM
The cost per empty flask has been 50 gold for almost a year and a half now.The main issue is the cost of Empty Flasks... originally they were 5 gold apiece, being cheaper than the cheapest potion going, the Basic Healing Potion. Unfortunately, 5 gold is too cheap for 75 HP, even with a Guild of Crafters Membership Ring; I would like to recommend something like 30 gold, or 25, as was mentioned above.
So, you should get---essentially free healing potions at all times on the 1-alt server?
I disagree.
How is sacrificing 3 Crystal Rings, as well as obtaining a level 20 mage with the spell vortex gate getting free healing potions?Further, on the main server, I do not think you can just fill an inventory with Empty Flasks and drop them into some cauldron to get all of the Unknown Brews. If you can, it should never have been set to being possible.
From my understanding, talking with a few players who played main as well as 1a, the way to make the unknown brews is the exact same way on both servers. And from my understanding, it has always been this way.The brews have basically been a bug that has been left to fester for ages.
You and I spent a bit of time talking about different things months ago when you went semi active on 1a Gaddy. Issues of balancing, between classes and races, different bosses, etc. This is the only "fix" the Team can come up with? It feels to me it is somewaht on the lines of how you fixed the whole "Malok Area being thieves only", by just simply reducing the resale value of the CK. Not only did that not fix an issue all the players on 1a had interest in, but it did not deter the ones who did train down there from just simpky still going down there, and still train in peace without fear of being pked by any other class. Quick fixes do not work, you and I both know that.The cost should not be all that much less than the cost of Advanced Healing Potions.
You can still buy Advanced Healing Potions anyway, so it isn't as if there are no full healing potions in-game.
You can also take the crafting feature for the brews and mana water out of the game all together can you not? If you think that making brews is an economic disaster for NM, then remove it completely, from both servers. Also, give the players who took time in aquiring 3 Crystal Rings to make the Guild Ring an option to have those 3 rings returned to them. Yes, I can still buy Advanced Pots, and honestly, I would take this feature over taking 15-20 minutes every 2 days to make my stash of Unkown Brews and storing them in my vault. It would also free up alot of space in my account vault, as well as my clan house vault for other things I could have in there, instead of stored on "vault chars".This one I will speak of only in ticket form only.However, the 1-alt server got this easy potion making because of a staff member who changed a bunch of things without consulting ANYONE else on the staff team.
they need a new reason to pregnant dog when something doesnt go there way
FYI, I was speaking to JLH about this in MSN, and he is the one who told me to bring it to the forums so all could discuss. You sir, on the other hand, complain just about anything and everything(and yes, I have seen some things copy/pasted in pages).Will deffinately make a Thief think twice about popping in on someone that can't be clicked. That's all thieves have going for them. Again, this hurts MAINLY thieves, especially the low levels with a Vampiric Dagger who can't essentially survive with the vampiric weapon alone. Always was my personal opinion that DoTW should never have existed on 1-ALT, it was an atrocity that put way too much money in the game. In my aspect, sacrificing Unknown Brews for more expennsive Advanced Potions takes money out of the game. SUCCESS
Sorry to inform you on this issue, but the only low lvl thieves this will hrut are the ones not in Pande, for as you see, only 2 members of this clan have less then arch thieves. And I will agree with you on this, taking gold out of the game will be a success, so why not just do away with the brew/mana water period?
What he said.
#27
Posted 03 January 2009 - 01:05 AM
#28
Posted 03 January 2009 - 02:12 AM
#29
Posted 03 January 2009 - 02:14 AM
#30
Posted 03 January 2009 - 02:16 AM
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