55 replies to this topic

[Element]

Since the other topic was locked and we were asked to breakdown ideas here is this

I suggest solo content for 1at because on paper it is the moet approachable to new players. Having to run multiple windows is not native to most gamers these days and having to learn and equip more than 1 class is ver discouraging. Ohh did I mention you need to spend time rolling as well? when you consider you need to do this for about 5-10 characters multi is out by a long shot.

So most people will look to 1 alt. it blows my mind that a server labeled 1alt can hardly be played with 1 character at a time. This is why you see people multi pc so often. Look the classes were not designed for solo play but atleast some of the content could be? Take off your shaders and look at some successful games. Wow for example has a nice split between solo and group content right? That game seems to do pretty well right?

now I'm not suggesting all content needs to be soloable but it would be nice if there was more content atleast at low levels that were soloable. Would it really hurt the game if that were the case? Toss in a few easy bosses that spawned every hour or so with a low drop rate. Maybe make the creatures in the sewers that are close to soloable a bit easier. I mean the stuff that is somewhat soloable needs to be soloed by higher Alts to get for lower level characters what fun is that? You guys are so concerned about making things "fair" that you forgot about fun. Would it really hurt to have the spider staff soloable by someone who could actually use it at its level? Would it ruin the game? Or would it make it fun for people playing the game?

Guys it's basic game design. Let the player get rewards and they will keep playing. Right now it's grind grind grind. Get a high level character so you can equip you low level character for the grind. Why not allow your low level character to actually do one a days and hourlys to level up you know get rewards along the way that they can use. Even if they are the best items for their levels it's not like they will affect anything. By level 30ish they won't matter anyways so what's the harm?

So I ask you to look out of the box. Forget what nightmist game design has been ingrained in you and think. If I was new and I was leveling up wow it would be cool to kill some bosses and actually get rewarded for it huh?

Even at high levels would it hurt to have a few bosses that were soloable hourly and easily accessible? that had a low chance to drop. There might actually be some competition for them and some ingame interaction. You know how things used to be what caused fun.

P.s. I am a game designer and I do this for a living so I'm not just talking out of my ass. I listen to players of my games and adjust.

Edited by Element, 01 February 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[Melchior]

This is true I love the games he has made and play them on my phone when I am not at a computer.

[Element]

Most noobs can easily page a founder in DA , get told the basics, join , then get taught 75% of the games content. Instead were left with skepticism very often, because the "removed" players (ones that don't get along with our vast team) often pretend to be new players. Most of the time it doesn't work due to ignorepc settings on 1 account or another.

This is bannable by terms on the ToS.

If you have any noobs that wish to play 1a, direct them to andy or myself personally.

 

 

 

Thats nice and all but you are missing the point.

 

Theres not always going to be someone to catch a new player. Maybe new players dont want everything given to them?

 

The whole point of a game is progressing and gaining new things to make your character better. This game lacks that. progression is extremely slow and the only way to get anything worthwhile for your character is to have a higher level character to get it or have it given to you. This is not how you retain players.

 

Think about wow or eso or really anything when you start the game you are pushed into the world where you gain some of your first equipment this is shiny and cool and it hooks you saying wow look what i earned look how cool this is I wonder what else i can get. Nightmist equals go grind and grind and grind and if you are lucky you can earn some gold to buy something cool or you have a higher level alt that can get it for you.

 

I honestly dont think there is 1 item in this game that you can earn yourself and use at your current level. There are no successful games that follow this model so maybe take a look at this?

[ice_cold]

Solable areas (not bosses) by a single person on 1-alt by at least 1 class without help from anyone:

 

Triken Forest/Forest of Souls

Sentent Cavern

Sentant Pass

Sentant Mountain

Desert

Large Forest

Wattlings Forest

Frostburn Mountain (or whatever north of wattlings)

Faravar

Spider Tunnels

Barrier Forest

Pyramid of the 3rd moon (bottom 2 levels)

Pyramid of the Mortal God (bottom 2 levels)

Kyriachian Ruins

Gnoll Fortress (first 4 levels)

Kantele

Barracks

Cinderforge Mine

Lost Trail

Museum

Blackthorn Mausoleum

Blackweald

Enchanted Forest

Elmshire

Hedge Lord Area

Sewers (all 4 levels)

Mount Fenowasty

Rose Garden

Malok's Guild

The small area with Aglon the Scourge

Scarlet Daggers Guild

Orc Caves

Airship

Silversail Beach

 

I might have missed a few, however as you can see, I named off almost every area in the game. On top of that, with 1-3 other people other areas are unlocked for players to do by themselves like 3rd level pyramid of the 3rd Moon.

 

Most areas designed for lower level characters can actually be done by a single character, though that doesn't mean a new player will be able to do it though. The Spider Tunnels were closed to higher level characters specifically because of players complaints. Players ask for stuff then forget they asked for it or later realize it was a mistake. 

 

A decent amount of bosses and mini bosses can also be solo'd, and have been solo'd. And a lot of bosses can be done with 4 or less players.

 

I do agree that there is a large gap in lower level shiny equipment though, but the nightmist system is also not very well designed to include lower level equipment and me and staff have talked about it multiple times. We aren't opposed to it in the least however there's other things we're doing right now. I wouldn't say that it isn't going to happen, and in fact will keep recommending we do that, however as I pointed out in another post, low level equipment very quickly gets discarded or people don't use the equipment/areas.

[Element]

So I never said you couldn't survive for a while in these areas with the top gear on a paladin or druid but you can not seriously think its possible to complete the bosses and gain items from these areas. You have played this game on 1alt right?

 

Since you are so good at lists please show me one of all the boss drops that you can actually get at your level without extreme top gear or pot dropping.

 

Spider staff is level 7 I would love to know what level 7s with 14 pots can complete that boss.

Halberd is level 20 cant be soloed by those who use it.

Dagger of spirits is 28 cant be soloed by those who use it.

Rose blade cant.

even things like centipede gloves and croc boots cant be soloed until way way after they can be used.

 

You really think it would hurt the game to allow some of these to be soloable?

 

 

Look I understand you like things how they are but you cant honestly say its working and the game is growing right? I just wish you could open your mind just a tad and put your shoes in someone else. Is it really that fun to mindlessly die over and over so you can get good exp from snakes until level 10 or would it be cool to go on a quest down into say the spider caverns and get a cool item while getting level 10? now expand that onto the rest of the game wouldnt it be fun to be rewarded for leveling and bossing rather than just grinding?

[Element]

once you're GM you can finally solo more than 5 areas , lol woot. J/K.

most classes are fine levels 1-30, you aren't forced to "farm" something that you can't possibly kill til post 30. learn the classes damage and potential and You can play all of them solo. Not saying that one arch wont only be able to solo kill 45 of the in-game mobs while others can solo 2783 mobs and 19 bosses. Balanced? Not hardly. But there is solo content. I recommend pally and ranger.

low level gear is fun and cool. for about 2 weeks. once you learn the basics of the game leveling 1-23 doesn't take that long anymore and the gear becomes meaningless. Especially when the gear/items aren't able to be sold. As far as I've seen most players remain almost naked til level 20/25 often because there isn't much point in it. I'm not against lowbie items as I almost prefer the pre 30 concept vs the 31+ crap. It is more fun and more challenging, when you don't go hnr demonic soldiers/vamp bats/bears all the way to 25 really fast. But the content gets old, and you can struggle to roll a new character and retrain a new lowbie or you can step up to high levels and acquire wealth/items/bossing? Up to you.

 

The bolded part. Wow this says it more than anything. The first 20 levels are when you hook players not ignore them. builders admin you have 1 chance to grab players attention and ill give you a hint it isnt after they have grinded for weeks maybe months to get to level 20 with nothing.

[ice_cold]

 

once you're GM you can finally solo more than 5 areas , lol woot. J/K.

most classes are fine levels 1-30, you aren't forced to "farm" something that you can't possibly kill til post 30. learn the classes damage and potential and You can play all of them solo. Not saying that one arch wont only be able to solo kill 45 of the in-game mobs while others can solo 2783 mobs and 19 bosses. Balanced? Not hardly. But there is solo content. I recommend pally and ranger.

low level gear is fun and cool. for about 2 weeks. once you learn the basics of the game leveling 1-23 doesn't take that long anymore and the gear becomes meaningless. Especially when the gear/items aren't able to be sold. As far as I've seen most players remain almost naked til level 20/25 often because there isn't much point in it. I'm not against lowbie items as I almost prefer the pre 30 concept vs the 31+ crap. It is more fun and more challenging, when you don't go hnr demonic soldiers/vamp bats/bears all the way to 25 really fast. But the content gets old, and you can struggle to roll a new character and retrain a new lowbie or you can step up to high levels and acquire wealth/items/bossing? Up to you.

 

The bolded part. Wow this says it more than anything. The first 20 levels are when you hook players not ignore them. builders admin you have 1 chance to grab players attention and ill give you a hint it isnt after they have grinded for weeks maybe months to get to level 20 with nothing.

 

 

This is how it's also always been on Nightmist though. Yes early levels catch peoples attention, however 20 can easily be achieved in a couple days even by a new player. Most people ignore the stuff because of how nightmist is designed most equipment just doesn't matter. My level 1 character has 25 armor, however I have other characters that are level 30 that barely get 75. Due to how the armor system works, it's hard to add in equipment for lower levels. Without making those items sellable they just sit around so new players will get the items for free anyways and not bother to go to the areas. If they are sellable and they sell for too much, then players will farm them who are veterans. If they don't sell for enough or aren't good enough then it's once again useless.

 

On the argueement that classes can't kill the mobs by the time they can use it, I would argue the whole argument doesn't have complete validity as you ignore the fact that Amulet of Hermes can be worn at level 1 nor can Gold Rings. Some stuff like Crocodile Skin Boots are some the best for the class until higher levels even if they can be worn at a low level. As well there use to be multiple instances of people using a Spider Staff all the way up until they could afford a Cobalt Staff of the Winds. Most of these areas can be solo'd by the time a character is about to leave the area, if a character could solo it at level 7 why even have a level cap at 20 or 21 or 22. Lower levels can wear the gear however, to get it you need help from other players and I would hope older players would be willing to help new players either by giving them low level gear or going with them, if neither of those happens then it's a problem with the playerbase and not the system.

 

The problem with a lot of things, truly is coding holding back development. If armor wasn't a % of damage block instead soaked damage up, it would be easier to make equipment for mobs, it would also allow for endless amounts of armor and monster damage, but it doesn't. And that won't be changed. Allowing a level 5 character get 20 AC is nearly impossible to notice how much damage your being protected for by the system, and normally protects you almost none. having higher damage weapons steps on the toes of higher level equipment as BD is a finite resource, especially since so many characters can already round other characters.

[Melchior]

Amulet of Hermes is a stat ammys that cost 1 mill right? It's more so the validity of someone who doesn't have acess to an item like this being able afford it at said level. Those amulets that add stats should be lvl 30 at least to use seeing as the price should reflect the level.

[Peacemaker]

So remember everyone. You dont have equipment when you start out because of the playerbase. People are supposed to give you their stuff or take time out of the relentless grind to help you get started on a "1 alt" server. I dont know about anyone else, but does that make sense? Shouldnt you be able to do stuff alone? Also staff has nerfed some of the lower lvl helpful lvl up things. Lets say the machete. It "was" the most useful thing for most classes to get up in levels. Now? Nerfed. Why? Someone thought it was too easy to get up in levels with it. Then i hear it was replaced with the little quest we do. Which you cant do till lvl 10. Then also you better know how to run to all the cities if you are new and plan on doing it. Do you people even think of the knowledge it takes to do some of these things? I know people that still dont know how to get from one city to another in sewers. Also just a suggestion, but one alt server should mean 1alt. Modify bosses to be able to be killed with one character. Set a character limit on the square so they can do alone and not be interrupted or should i use your new term griefed. Do something to actually help the game. Quit making it more difficult. Everything shouldnt be a stupid puzzle. There isnt 100-200 people to figure it out like there was years ago. Simplify the game and make it enjoyable to play instead of a burden that takes up too much time. Its supposed to be fun, not a bunch of power happy whiny bishes complaining about not getting their way or staff members trying to boost their ego by implementing "new but already there" rules that were never used before until it finally pertained to them. Simplify the game. 4.6 billion or however much it is, is hard enough to get already. Why be penalized for finally getting your exp? Get a clue. You are making the game die out.

[Element]

 

 

once you're GM you can finally solo more than 5 areas , lol woot. J/K.

most classes are fine levels 1-30, you aren't forced to "farm" something that you can't possibly kill til post 30. learn the classes damage and potential and You can play all of them solo. Not saying that one arch wont only be able to solo kill 45 of the in-game mobs while others can solo 2783 mobs and 19 bosses. Balanced? Not hardly. But there is solo content. I recommend pally and ranger.

low level gear is fun and cool. for about 2 weeks. once you learn the basics of the game leveling 1-23 doesn't take that long anymore and the gear becomes meaningless. Especially when the gear/items aren't able to be sold. As far as I've seen most players remain almost naked til level 20/25 often because there isn't much point in it. I'm not against lowbie items as I almost prefer the pre 30 concept vs the 31+ crap. It is more fun and more challenging, when you don't go hnr demonic soldiers/vamp bats/bears all the way to 25 really fast. But the content gets old, and you can struggle to roll a new character and retrain a new lowbie or you can step up to high levels and acquire wealth/items/bossing? Up to you.

 

The bolded part. Wow this says it more than anything. The first 20 levels are when you hook players not ignore them. builders admin you have 1 chance to grab players attention and ill give you a hint it isnt after they have grinded for weeks maybe months to get to level 20 with nothing.

 

 

This is how it's also always been on Nightmist though. Yes early levels catch peoples attention, however 20 can easily be achieved in a couple days even by a new player. Most people ignore the stuff because of how nightmist is designed most equipment just doesn't matter. My level 1 character has 25 armor, however I have other characters that are level 30 that barely get 75. Due to how the armor system works, it's hard to add in equipment for lower levels. Without making those items sellable they just sit around so new players will get the items for free anyways and not bother to go to the areas. If they are sellable and they sell for too much, then players will farm them who are veterans. If they don't sell for enough or aren't good enough then it's once again useless.

 

On the argueement that classes can't kill the mobs by the time they can use it, I would argue the whole argument doesn't have complete validity as you ignore the fact that Amulet of Hermes can be worn at level 1 as can Gold Rings. As well there use to be multiple instances of people using a Spider Staff all the way up until they could afford a Cobalt Staff of the Winds. Most of these areas can be solo'd by the time a character is about to leave the area, if a character could solo it at level 7 why even have a level cap at 20 or 21 or 22. Loser levels can wear the gear however to get it you need help from other players, and I would hope newer players would be willing to help new players either by giving them low level gear or going with them, if neither f those happens then it's a problem with the playerbase and not the system.

 

The problem with a lot of things, truly is coding holding back development. If armor wasn't a % of damage block instead soaked damage up, it would be easier to make equipment for mobs, it would also allow for endless amounts of armor and monster damage, but it doesn't. And that won't be changed. Allowing a level 5 character get 20 AC is nearly impossible to notice how much damage your being protected for by the system, and normally protects you almost none. having higher damage weapons steps on the toes of higher level equipment as BD is a finite resource, especially since so many characters can already round other characters.

 

 

"This is how it's also always been on Nightmist though." so? its obliviously not working now would it really hurt to change things? this is why I am asking you to look at this game as a new player.

 

Hey I'm new and I want to checkout this game! pretend you are answering these questions as a new player.

 

What would I rather do? Mindlessly grind on monsters that give some gold up until about level 30 when I can be carried along on some bosses runs? or would i rather level up by exploring content, killing bosses and being rewarded along the way?

 

Would I rather be given the equipment i need to survive or would I rather earn it?

 

Would I like to be able to explore the world of nightmist or have to be carried everywhere if I want to get optimal experience. (keep in mind many times there are 0 other players on)

 

 

 

 

Look im not trying to piss on anyone or anything im just offering up suggestions that I think would help the game. I play other games and I build games for a living so Id like to think I know how these things work.

 

Yes code is somewhat of a problem but there are ways around it you guys have so many tools at your disposal.

 

I mean if you can give me an honest answer of how it would hurt the game to have some low level content where players of that level can actually solo the area and get rewarded by it I will leave it alone.

[ice_cold]

lol blame the playerbase. 

some people won't, or often don't, want to waste an hour or two(sometimes dozens of trips) helping a lowbie get a piece of level 10 gear because maybe it takes 2000 hours of just exping to get max level, 1000 more for crate items, or 500 more for tokens. if u pick tokens add another 500 for golding. Mostly because level 10 is about 0.00000000000000000000000000000000002% of your game time.

The players can help other players like they got when they started. It isn't the current staff members fault the current players feel they have an entitlement to only help themselves out. 

 

 

So remember everyone. You dont have equipment when you start out because of the playerbase. People are supposed to give you their stuff or take time out of the relentless grind to help you get started on a "1 alt" server. I dont know about anyone else, but does that make sense? Shouldnt you be able to do stuff alone? Also staff has nerfed some of the lower lvl helpful lvl up things. Lets say the machete. It "was" the most useful thing for most classes to get up in levels. Now? Nerfed. Why? Someone thought it was too easy to get up in levels with it. Then i hear it was replaced with the little quest we do. Which you cant do till lvl 10. Then also you better know how to run to all the cities if you are new and plan on doing it. Do you people even think of the knowledge it takes to do some of these things? I know people that still dont know how to get from one city to another in sewers. Also just a suggestion, but one alt server should mean 1alt. Modify bosses to be able to be killed with one character. Set a character limit on the square so they can do alone and not be interrupted or should i use your new term griefed. Do something to actually help the game. Quit making it more difficult. Everything shouldnt be a stupid puzzle. There isnt 100-200 people to figure it out like there was years ago. Simplify the game and make it enjoyable to play instead of a burden that takes up too much time. Its supposed to be fun, not a bunch of power happy whiny bishes complaining about not getting their way or staff members trying to boost their ego by implementing "new but already there" rules that were never used before until it finally pertained to them. Simplify the game. 4.6 billion or however much it is, is hard enough to get already. Why be penalized for finally getting your exp? Get a clue. You are making the game die out. 

The machete was changed a very, very long time ago. The machete would only help people suicide and if you looked at a newer players topic on this very sub-forum, he doesn't like the idea of suiciding to level. People don't have to give items and I never said they did, however everyone posting didn't just start the game and got to where they are now by having 0 help with everything they did. It wasn't replaced with the Kayl'as Brooch quest, however the quest can help people to familiarize running around the game to different places. Everything it takes to learn to run around the game is included on Nightmist wiki, so all you need to know is how to use the wiki. 1a server does mean 1a, as pointed out over and over and over and over and over again if you want to play alone go to the multi-alt server, that's what you did. It's really not a hard concept to understand, if you want to play alone you can play with multiple characters by yourself on multi, if you want to play with other people you can use a single character on 1alt. Do something to help the game? We're adding the crate system. It's penalized because of JLH, that has nothing to do with us and obviously the playerbase can't fathom the creator of the game wants something a certain way and we can't fix that.

 

 

"This is how it's also always been on Nightmist though." so? its obliviously not working now would it really hurt to change things? this is why I am asking you to look at this game as a new player. And I also stated why it is still this way.

Hey I'm new and I want to checkout this game! pretend you are answering these questions as a new player.

 

What would I rather do? Mindlessly grind on monsters that give some gold up until about level 30 when I can be carried along on some bosses runs? or would i rather level up by exploring content, killing bosses and being rewarded along the way? A character can explore the world all they would like, however some areas are not appropriate for certain levels, though a very large porton of the game can be explored alone by level 25 which takes about 2/3 days to get to.

 

Would I rather be given the equipment i need to survive or would I rather earn it? Then earn it, you have multiple levels to get that piece of equipment you want.

 

Would I like to be able to explore the world of nightmist or have to be carried everywhere if I want to get optimal experience. (keep in mind many times there are 0 other players on). We have a wiki, it has a vast amount of knowledge on it that will allow a player to roam by themselves.

 

Look im not trying to piss on anyone or anything im just offering up suggestions that I think would help the game. I play other games and I build games for a living so Id like to think I know how these things work.

 

Yes code is somewhat of a problem but there are ways around it you guys have so many tools at your disposal.

 

I mean if you can give me an honest answer of how it would hurt the game to have some low level content where players of that level can actually solo the area and get rewarded by it I will leave it alone. Like I said, I would love to see new low level content and have been arguing for more over the past 10 years. Feel free to post an area or some actual stuff in the development section. Saying 'x' thing needs to be changed however not rally suggesting anything doesn't help developement of the game. If you feel you have a good workaround, post it.

 

 

On a further note, topic moderation will now become heavy as players would like to point fingers or make comments that have no bearing on the subject. Yes, I deleted your post Piddy and yours Jake. You might as well not even waste your time.

[Cruxis]

Failures can't even solo Imhotep and shiz. Ain't no one ever heard of jag and vamp pots before?!/!?

 

If Jaguar potion was reduced to the cost of 100k...I bet that would actually help the game. Plus mass exp for lvl 35+ wouldn't seem so bad either.

 

Also make it only take 1 blood to craft.

 

Bwahahahahahahahaha.

[Element]

Congrats on being as closed minded as possible ice_cold. You must be right the game is clearly as good as it can get and this is shown by the growth of the game and how happy all the players seem. I'm glad you only run nightmist and not anything that actually matters haha.

Edited by Element, 02 February 2015 - 01:06 AM.

[ice_cold]

Congrats on being as closed minded as possible ice_cold. You must be right game is clearly as good as it can get and this is shown by the growth of the game and how happy all the players seem. I'm glad you only run nightmist and not anything that actually matters haha.

 

I'm not closed minded, in contrary I said if you had suggestion then do so.

 

Very first post I made on here, "I do agree that there is a large gap in lower level shiny equipment though, but the nightmist system is also not very well designed to include lower level equipment and me and staff have talked about it multiple times. We aren't opposed to it in the least however there's other things we're doing right now. I wouldn't say that it isn't going to happen, and in fact will keep recommending we do that, however as I pointed out in another post, low level equipment very quickly gets discarded or people don't use the equipment/areas."

 

Statements:

Characters can't do stuff alone: I point out how characters can do 80% of the game by themselves.

Low levels should be able to solo stuff: they can, however team work is needed for the lowest levels the item can be worn, to get something alone you can do it later on but still at a fairly low level.

1a characters should be able to do stuff alone: They can, however teamwork is needed for better areas and better drops, reason is the multi-alt server is there for people who want to play alone.

Low level equipment: I'm not opposed to this, however people who are not me told you this is pointless

Obviously the game isn't working: I would need to be shown proof of this as there's multiple people who have level 40's. we would then need to evaluate why certain things are the way they are.

Hey I'm new to this game: a non-staff member told you how it was, veteran players don't want to help new players because they want to level their own characters, which is contrary to the spirit of 1a but the mentality of said players.

Low level items were changed: 1 example given and the leveling premise used is contrary to what another new player has said on another topic today.

New players don't know how to get around: We have a wiki to help with this problem.

Players want characters to be able to just level without a system: JLH says no.

New content for lower levels: all for it

 

In what way does any of that not make sense? In what way does that make me closed minded? The only things not up for debate are things that are contrary to the purpose (multi vs 1a) and are unable to be done by anyone other then JLH or is in contrary to what JLH has specifically told staff he will not allow.

 

I would also like to point out, I believe you only made one suggestion this entire topic, which was to make stuff be able to be solo'd on 1a. Even though you have stated you're making suggestions that just really isn't the case here as you're making statements and not suggestions. If you would like to try and develope something go ahead, promise I'll read it and give my opinion.

 

In relation to what I run. I'm a staff member for another game, a moderator on multiple twitch pages, and run my own business.

[Element]

 

Congrats on being as closed minded as possible ice_cold. You must be right game is clearly as good as it can get and this is shown by the growth of the game and how happy all the players seem. I'm glad you only run nightmist and not anything that actually matters haha.

 

I'm not closed minded, in contrary I said if you had suggestion then do so.

 

Very first post I made on here, "I do agree that there is a large gap in lower level shiny equipment though, but the nightmist system is also not very well designed to include lower level equipment and me and staff have talked about it multiple times. We aren't opposed to it in the least however there's other things we're doing right now. I wouldn't say that it isn't going to happen, and in fact will keep recommending we do that, however as I pointed out in another post, low level equipment very quickly gets discarded or people don't use the equipment/areas."

 

Statements:

Characters can't do stuff alone: I point out how characters can do 80% of the game by themselves.

Low levels should be able to solo stuff: they can, however team work is needed for the lowest levels the item can be worn, to get something alone you can do it later on but still at a fairly low level.

1a characters should be able to do stuff alone: They can, however teamwork is needed for better areas and better drops, reason is the multi-alt server is there for people who want to play alone.

Low level equipment: I'm not opposed to this, however people who are not me told you this is pointless

Obviously the game isn't working: I would need to be shown proof of this as there's multiple people who have level 40's. we would then need to evaluate why certain things are the way they are.

Hey I'm new to this game: a non-staff member told you how it was, veteran players don't want to help new players because they want to level their own characters, which is contrary to the spirit of 1a but the mentality of said players.

Low level items were changed: 1 example given and the leveling premise used is contrary to what another new player has said on another topic today.

New players don't know how to get around: We have a wiki to help with this problem.

Players want characters to be able to just level without a system: JLH says no.

New content for lower levels: all for it

 

In what way does any of that not make sense? In what way does that make me closed minded? The only things not up for debate are things that are contrary to the purpose (multi vs 1a) and are unable to be done by anyone other then JLH or is in contrary to what JLH has specifically told staff he will not allow.

 

I would also like to point out, I believe you only made one suggestion this entire topic, which was to make stuff be able to be solo'd on 1a. Even though you have stated you're making suggestions that just really isn't the case here as you're making statements and not suggestions. If you would like to try and develope something go ahead, promise I'll read it and give my opinion.

 

In relation to what I run. I'm a staff member for another game, a moderator on multiple twitch pages, and run my own business.

 

 

No sense talking to you I should have listened to the community. Enjoy your power trip.

[ice_cold]

"No sense talking to you I should have listened to the community. Enjoy your power trip."

 

I apologize my answers don't satisfy you and that you understand so much of how Nightmist works and I understand so little, that you couldn't be an advisor instead of me. As I've said, rather then making statements and suggestion to staff that are obviously so inept at their jobs to come up with ideas when they already haven't, players who have problems with how staff run things and have developed for the game should take it on themselves to try and specifically do it better. We won;t be upset if players come up with a great idea.

 

I would like to point out that recently, in my area I designed, I did add in a solo boss which has been used quite a bit. Development takes a long period of time and effort.

 

 

"I suggest solo content for 1alt....I design games"

 

Already a step ahead of you, though players would act as if that isn't true. As a game designer, would you fix something that could possibly see use and could possibly get more people or could possibly keep people, or do you finish something that is badly needed that nearly every person has been asking for (the leveling system).

 

As a game designer do you think ahead as to what the possibilities of certain things are? A very smart person for a large gaming company says all the time, "Do we make mistakes when designing stuff, all the time, do we push the boundries when we put new stuff out, all the time, do we know when something is just plainly a bad idea and don't try it, all the time". There's certain things that we would like to do for the game, and there's things that we know just wont work for them game.

 

Would it be nice to have a crap ton of solo content? Yes. Would the solo content help a bunch? Based on the people who play, I can easily say that if we put in solo content the majority of the stuff will be hoarded by a couple players. This isn't like multi-alt where you can always find some type of boss in, they have 28000 squares to search and 50 or so bosses. On 1a we can't do anything close to that, so now we're just randomly sticking bosses in, how many of those can we put in? 6? 12? 20? Will these be hourly or daily? What will they drop? Will the items be okay, good, amazing? How much time will it take us to do this? Are there other things more important to do? Where will we put all of these bosses? Will certain people be able to hoard them? what levels should we design them for? What classes should be able to kill them? What happens when the items flood the server? Will we allow more then 1 person to kill the boss? What will that do to the boss? These are just some of the questions which we must ask ourselves.

 

There's a lot of questions to ask yourself when designing stuff on a game, and not all of it is viable. The sewer monsters aren't being moved, I understand you think that's a viable option, but it's not going to happen as it just doesn't make sense. I understand players want everything to be the way they want it to be, but not everyone thinks thoroughly through what they're specifically asking for.

 

Like I said, I personally am not opposed to more low level stuff, I'm not necessarily against solo content either but understand what will happen if we add it in. We also can't magically wish all this stuff in to game, I understand players believe this stuff is quick to do, but any game designer should understand how long it takes to get something done for a game. A game designer should also be able to properly state: What a perceived problem is, why it's a problem, what solutions can be to said problem, and how to implement said fixes for the problem.

 

I also keep telling you how the game is designed, I'm not telling you that your game should allow 50 browsers and I'm certainly not going to tell JLH 1a needs to be a game where they can do most stuff by themselves. So you can keep beating your head against the wall and calling me stupid when I agree with some of the stuff you state and have helped to get stuff which you have stated is needed for the game put in to the game, but until you actually say anything that I either haven't already been trying to do, is viable based on JLHs rules, or remotely makes sense, your posts will remain irrelevant. That's not because you aren't making valid points, but you really just aren't saying anything that is new.

 

Is this post a bit rude? Yes. Why? Because you apparently don't understand we're doing some of this stuff, some of this stuff is already in game an unused, some of this stuff isn't viable, some of the stuff doesn't make sense, some of the stuff goes against JLH's rules, and some of the stuff is valid but without a specific way to do it you're just asking for the same people who have been doing it wrong to try and get it right after 3 years (and more realistically the entire time the server has been open). If you can do better, do as I stated and go to the development forum and do it. But then again, I doubt you'll read this entire post, if at all.

[Melchior]

Just one thing that stuck out "certain people be able to hoard them" what's the deal with that? Usually when putting stuff Into a game the builder doesn't worry about a group of people doing a boss. That's usually how this type of things work new boss group people kill it and repeat. Usually when another rival smaller group wants to do it they have to wait till the dominate group gets thier fill and the less dominate group gets in to do it. This was done in Rok on a lot of bosses pick and choose what bosses you wanna do. Also if you wanna stop a dominate group figure out a way to effectively pk them to stop them. Putting thought into how to screw another player while coming up with new areas and bosses is kinda messed up.

But I may be taking this the wrong way but it just seems that way to me.

[ice_cold]

Just one thing that stuck out "certain people be able to hoard them" what's the deal with that? Usually when putting stuff Into a game the builder doesn't worry about a group of people doing a boss. That's usually how this type of things work new boss group people kill it and repeat. Usually when another rival smaller group wants to do it they have to wait till the dominate group gets thier fill and the less dominate group gets in to do it. This was done in Rok on a lot of bosses pick and choose what bosses you wanna do. Also if you wanna stop a dominate group figure out a way to effectively pk them to stop them. Putting thought into how to screw another player while coming up with new areas and bosses is kinda messed up.

But I may be taking this the wrong way but it just seems that way to me.

 

It isn't so much we're worrying about a group of people dominating a boss. We're worried about a single person dominating a boss and then that person has the marketplace cornered. That doesn't mean we won't put in bosses that can be solo'd and we did just put in Magician Bandit, however you have to be very careful when adding in something if a single person will be able to keep something all to themselves.

[ice_cold]

I seen a few 1a to main comparisons in there, a real staff wouldn't be so blasphemous. Totally different games. I'm comparing the 2 to show that they would become more alike and trying to point out how they are different games. Multi already allows essentially what he's asking for.

if multi alt had 8-11 people on as much as the 1a server does you wouldn't ever find any bosses, not even the large ones. but the flaw of multi alt is exactly that. find boss, slay it in 26 seconds, find more? no need to even play more than a fraction of time. frankly its just too many alts allowed. also I almost never see any reasonable bosses in on multi. As I mostly focus on 1a, im not slaughtering bosses that require 40 GMs. But im almost positive that the lower tier bosses I try to find in, are annihilated in 1-2 cycles by some superhero team. This is also generally what would happen if bosses were added to 1a if they could be solo'd.

1a needs viable solo content, I wont lie. Valid
Is it major? probably not atm. Valid
Would it help the playerbase? not really Possibly Valid
Would it help the game be more complete? yes Valid
Is there currently any reason to keep lowbies? nope Not Valid
Could there be a reason to keep lowbies? yes Valid
Would that fix unused content for lower levels? it definitely could under the right circumstance. Doubtful, but possibly Valid


Im not a game builder, But I have been a game tester for multiple gaming genres video, mud, and paper.
maybe solo content for lowbies should be tied into leveling items/gear/keys/seals that GMs could use. No idea, but to me that seems viable. actually make it worthwhile for all players to keep a lowbie or two around? I don't believe people keeping lower level characters to helpo ut their higher level characters is a valid argument. I could possibly see having lower level characters that can get something that is useful to higher level characters, i.e. good potions or mana or something of that nature, however low level characters who would be able to get worthwhile gear would end once the 10 or so people who need it got it. Seals and Keys for a higher level character doesn't make sense (though i suppose something like the armoire isn't a horrible idea, but still...), and leveling items means people will just kill whatever they want with their higher levels and constantly farm the leveling items with lowbies. I don't believe that's something staff will go for, I know I wouldn't. 

 

There is some stuff in game for lower level characters however people have shown that they don't want to do low level stuff because it's fun, they want to do low level stuff because it benefits they're higher level characters. Which means pretty much, what Piddy is saying is pretty much the only way to keep low levels relevant. I believe I'm also in agreement with Piddy that lower levels are funner then higher level characters as well, however that just isn't how other players feel. If they do, they certainly haven't showed it.

[ice_cold]

If it was like Elshira, having to go through all the KTP's to get to it, it probably wouldn't be used, the problem is that the majority of players will most likely say it's taking too much time out training their higher levels and it isn't worth it. Then again, if it's easier then that and you can log a lowbie close and the boss is semi easy to kill, you're at a point where someone could farm it like armoire and then they can train their GM's on anything they so desire (JLH rule). Trust me, I don't want to train on mobs to level as it leaves me vulnerable to be pk'd and I want to kill whatever I want. I'm not saying I'm opposed to the idea, but it would need to be balanced. What I am saying is that there's a lot of other points which you may not be considering.

 

There's a lot of things that lack in game. To name some of the things I feel needs work on in no specific order: 

*More Low Level Areas (including small to sdg sized areas that could be anywhere from not level locked or 10-25)

*More bosses

**More solo bosses, More low level bosses, More 2-4 person bosses, More class specific bosses (i.e. Berserkers/Rangers not being the best at nearly every boss), More standalone bosses, More mid tier bosses, A couple more top level bosses (so large parties don't sit around complaing about doing small bosses instead of large bosses)

*Player cooperation

*Equipment

**Craftables, Boss drops, Fill a role that isn't used (i.e. most zerks are nearly naked or classes that have the same equipment for 20 levels), Allow for diversity in play style

*Events

**Moshes, CTF, proficiency, etc, Quests and one time events 

*More Areas (these can fill different roles, even if to spread players acrossed a map so they can be alone if they want to)

*Leveling System

**Getting it completely in so every class can level, Balancing it so that classes need to have a realistic goal in comparison to other classes

*Try and get rid of every no-pic

*Change things that were specifically intended for multi so that it falls more in line with 1a (though this is getting closer and closer to being done)

 

And that isn't everything on our minds either. We have a lot of stuff we would love to do and would I once again ask is this important at this time. 

 

To give a couple examples of what I've done for my ideas. I came up with Elmshire about 2 1/2 years ago. I designed a map for it, I designed the majority of the items, I came up with a large portion of the descriptions for monsters and items, I did the basic design of most of the monsters (i.e. how hard they should hit, how often the drop, what they drop, their abilities, what they're weak to, etc), I attempted to balance the stuff I suggested, I designed pictures for a large portion of it. 

 

The new cold area: I came up with the basic premise for it 2 1/2 years go. I designed a map for it, designed a large portion of items, came up with some descriptions, so on so forth. The most recent area had Oracle, Stig, and me all work on it in different ways and not everything stayed the same. Even though we all worked on it during different periods of time, It still took a few months to put in. 

 

If you feel like something you are proposing is a good idea piddy this is a good way to propose it. If you are able to come up with at least a decent portion for something (not saying it has to be all out like I did on Elmshire) and post on the development forum it will be far more likely to go in. This frees up time from staff having to come up with a large portion of the stuff which takes away their valuable time of putting something in we can use. Coming up with new drops, new equipment, new descriptions, and different ways to design stuff is very hard to do when you've come up with so many things already, which I have been trying to point out all week. Things like this can take a large amount of time.

 

I would welcome every person who plays the game of Nightmist to help us all have a better experience however actually helping us do some of this helps us get it finished quicker so we can keep moving forward. Help us, help you, by helping us.

 

One of the large reasons I became an advisor is because I did this very thing. I designed stuff, I pitched it, I developed stuff further, I pitched it again. I tried to do as much as I possibly could to try and help staff get what I wanted in the game, what other people said they wanted, or felt the game needed into the game. I also pointed out a lot of stuff that could be changed, stuff that was too hard, or completely unused, or didn't make sense. I made the best effort I possibly could to try and get it in to the game rather then saying, "hey change this". I tried to completely flesh my idea out so it would take as little time possible for staff. I also don't press the issue either, I normally have a good sense when to stop pushing a certain subject. If something isn't viable now, try again in a couple months because staff might be busy. The best way to also get rid of advisors, like players keep saying they want, is for everyone to help staff as I did. Then me and Gaddy won't be needed.

 

I would like to also point out how these posts keep getting longer and longer. I talk to staff a lot more then the average player and do have the ability to see what staff are working on. I'm not trying to rub that in peoples faces, I'm trying to inform people as to what staff have said, or feel, or how I believe they'll react based off of the large amount of interaction I've had with them. I would love for every single person to know everything I know, I would love to say, hey guys this is exactly what we're working on this very minute and the things we want to work on however I cannot. I become agitated and rude because I hear the same things over and over again and keep trying to say it can't be done but players don't want to hear that. A lot of suggestions, especially by piddy (mainly by piddy...) actually make a lot of sense however the way players go about this stuff is the completely wrong way to do it. I am trying to inform you people as to how to look at things, how to go about things, trying to point out we're working on something but players don't want to listen to it. They want what they want, when they want it, how they want it, and then they don't even want to say a thank you or good work. I'm not saying I need this, but for staff it could go a long way in keeping them on board. If you don't like the current staff I would like to point out they are the last staff this game will ever have. JLH has said this. So I suppose you can dislike something like Sentant Cavern and say it's useless, but I personally would rather have an addition I feel is useless then have no additions at all. If you feel like no additions are needed, you don't have to use them, the alternate would be the same though, you not using that addition because there is no additions.

 

Edit: Post got extremely long so deleted portions.

[ice_cold]

That's exactly my point.

 

You want the leveling system changed, you want low level areas, you want multiple classes buffed, you want multiple classes nerfed, you want solo stuff, you want new equipment, you want the leveling system done, you want new bosses...but hey, we'll get right on to doing everything you want right now, even though you're the one who can find 15 flaws in everything and constantly tell us how bad we are at everything. But then again, that's essentially the mentality of the entire 1a server now. A mentality of entitlement and superiority.

 

Did you know that players use to use this crazy sub-forum called 'development'. You should take a look at it and see how much players have tried to develop in the past in comparison to now, every player wants everything now but wants to put no effort in to it.

[ice_cold]

-pvp balancing: it was already impossible to balance this as certain classes can round other characters without 27 str. See berserkers and rangers.

 

-leveling system completion: the problem was that there weren't enough mobs in game for the way staff wanted it done. this is beyond me. i believe that the system is either complete or might be missing 1 thing or so now. I could be wrong though.

 

-More then 15 mobs can be killed in game by every class. A lot of work has been done over the years to try and make more monsters viable though and i doubt we're finished doing this.

 

-We're trying to work on improving monster xp for all classes, giving them various different monsters to hit. A Skeletal Wight might be good for clerics and bad for every other class or a Golem might be good for a mage and bad for a fighter. A thief will have it easier in genderas then a mage will.

 

-Area work has mostly been added due to the need for new monsters to fill leveling item gaps. But also, not every player wants to be within 5 minutes of being found for a pk either and map extensions help spread out the map to try and allow these players to be left alone and pk'ers guessing where a player might be.

 

-Current mobs have been continiously looked at for possible improvements over the last 3 years and 100+ mobs have had changes done to them.

 

-Some people like new bosses and new items.

 

-Did thieves need to be nerfed as hard as they did? Nope. Pretty much everything a large quantity of people complained about was nerfed which was far too much. This is a situation of players complaining about something and people down the road regret. The same thing is true for druids having 7 stamina instead of the 8 JLH changed them to. People complained about how druids stamina gains were set. Who's dealing with it now? Not the players who complained about it and made JLH decide to change it back.

 

-You don't get warnings for going off topic, you get warnings for that stunt you pulled yesterday. Other reasons I've given warnings include: spam, harassment, rules violations, bypassing filters, doing something we specifically say not to, etc. Even though this topic has been a 'rant' it has largely stayed on the original post of low level training and solo stuff. Forum mods normally don't lock a topic for 1-5 posts going off topic which has 30+ replies, or going off topic multiple times but keeps finding it's way back to the original post. However if it gets to a point where no one is talking about the topic, people are stepping out of line, or someone who is a moderator decides the conversation is over for various reasons it will be locked.

 

Players have probably noticed that in general staff aren't replying. I get the feeling I will stop replying very soon as well. There's a few different reasons why staff aren't replying to these topics I would assume. I'm starting to wonder if I should stop replying as well and just let players talk to each other on the forum, it will probably just make everything easier.

[ice_cold]

I have stated numerous times I am not against this. I have stated that staff are currently busy with other stuff and if players would like this they can throw staff a bone and help create something for this game which would greatly speed something like this along. It's like I'm beating my head against the wall. If players don't want to do that or anything else I've said then I have a suggestion.

 

Sit back, play the game, wait to see what we have in store for you guys.

[ice_cold]

http://www.nightmist...showtopic=37317

[ice_cold]

The topic has been there, and stickied, since December 2012. This isn't something that's new. People just choose not to take this path.

[Cruxis]

I choose to..but we never had a back and forth on possible changes/implementations. I guess you didn't like my idea </3

[ice_cold]

I replied to that topic a long time ago.

[Gaddy]

Anyone who argues that the game is fine for new players is dillusional.

 

However, I'm skeptic of Nightmist really having much "development" left to do. It runs, and I am thankful for that.

[ice_cold]

Anyone who argues that the game is fine for new players is dillusional.

 

However, I'm skeptic of Nightmist really having much "development" left to do. It runs, and I am thankful for that.

 

I don't think anyone would argue the game is good for new players. Most areas that in the past were okay for new players are still hard if you don't have an older player with you. Something like Elshira and Zanitos can be done by a single player but not by a new player. Some new developments by JLH can help with new player stuff. I would guess the argument would be is it necessary? Nightmist have never been friendly to new people and we don't exactly have new players lining up to play. Most staff members have always focused on bigger and better and because of that we've never really had a slew of low level areas. I think the last person who really put any effort in to lower level areas was Cyric.

 

As you state, there really isn't a whole lot of development left.

[Melchior]

It's still possible for the remains of Rok and revelation to be pulled into nm which even if half of them stayed it would leave you with a playerbase of about 50. I knew about 7 people irl from Rok but each one of them said where's the ingame map. Lol