11 replies to this topic

[joanna]

ok everyone knows pacis can pretty much run through any area using GP and bypassing kill-to-pass (ktp)monsters that were put there to make the area more challenging and make it so players could NOT just run through the area unscathed. They also are dragging ktp's onto other people's normal alts, then going back for more.

Pacis been able to bypass ktp's was put in as a stop-gap coz people were vining them, and they were getting stuck at ktp monsters unable to kill em coz they were not undead (eg CG). Unfortunatly it has stayed that way and nowadays people abuse the hell out of this 'feature'.

So, heres a way to help stop it.

Pacis are only able to ignore KTP's if they *retreat*.

IE, go back to where they came from. Not rush into the area said ktp was guarding. So you could go south from the CG, but not west from the demonic captain

Obviously this would make some areas virtually paci-free, but from the areas ive looked at none of them really benefit from pacis been there anyway.
As for dragged ktps, the paci would be able to go any way except from where the ktp came from. So if the monster arrived from the west, the paci would have to go north, south, east, up or down. Pacis could be cornered by dragging monsters, and since, unlike PC's, monsters are perfectly at liberty to cut open pacis, I dont see a problem with this

Edited by joanna, 12 May 2006 - 01:15 PM.

[Gaddy]

I actually agree here.
Pacifists are VERY abused because they have so many spells that make them impossible to kill, aside from if they walk onto a trap---which apperently there is discussion about them getting the spell "Protect".

I also think it's wrong that they have absolutely nothing stopping them in any area aside from ones that require keys.
There really are not that many kill to pass portions of NM that pacis would lose out on, aside from Spider King, but perhaps those spiders could be made undead or something.

Perhaps a pacifist should have to work with a party of non-pacifists to get through to the sections that have kill to pass monsters stopping them. I know many parties would be quite greatful to have a nice lil pacifist healing and casting subdue or the sort on them.


Right now, it's just overly abused. I don't know of a sure-fire way to stop the abuse of their invunerability, but this is the best option I've seen really.
Perhaps kill to pass monsters should be made un-dragable, but there are still things like Drow Rogues, etc.

[joanna]

Its a little unfortunate that more players, unlike me wont go back on a paci to help a player they may have dragged monsters unto. some areas pacis CAN benifit from are blocked off by KTP monsters (such as Harabec Dungeon) maybe though a simple stop to the actual dragging could be implemented? I highly agree this is a problem. A simplified solution should be made I dont agree however that they should have to retreat. EG: Think of this...A paci (for whatever reason maybe to get a great axe) accidently stumples onto a Hydra Hatchling Now in order to pass south normal players have to kill it NOTHING (maybe a giant snapper turtle can rarely?) CAN BE DRAGED THERE but still there is no other way to go so...how does that work (having to kill a monster to pass backwords) let alone the vines o.o Just my opinion on that matter.

if you stumble across a hydra hatchling, simply go back where you came from. that is what retreating is.

[Crane]

Unfortunately, a lot of the areas were made before the Pacifist class was introduced, and some of the monsters are set to "kill-to-pass" (either for all the time regardless, or just in a particular direction on a particular square), but their "chance to follow" is not set to 0%, which is what caused the Hydra Hatchlings to be dragged around before it was fixed. If there are any monsters that are meant to be kill-to-pass but are nonetheless draggable by Pacifists, give the staff a buzz to see if it needs fixing.

[Trevayne]

I agree that this is a problem, but the solutions that I have seen would be very complex to implement as they would either require massive re-coding from JLH and/or every area in game to be re-tooled by staff.

The simplest solution that I can see is to not allow monsters to follow pacifists. This would require a small amount of re-coding, but is unlikely to involve more than a single additional conditional check (inserted into the percentage-to-follow check). It would allow pacifists to go everywhere that they currently can, but would prevent them from being used as an offensive weapon (by dragging monsters onto parties), from making areas more difficult than intended (by dragging monsters like drow rogues all over the place), and from accidentally damaging parties (by passing them and dumping monsters on them).

[Raylen]

I agree that this is a problem, but the solutions that I have seen would be very complex to implement as they would either require massive re-coding from JLH and/or every area in game to be re-tooled by staff.

The simplest solution that I can see is to not allow monsters to follow pacifists. This would require a small amount of re-coding, but is unlikely to involve more than a single additional conditional check (inserted into the percentage-to-follow check). It would allow pacifists to go everywhere that they currently can, but would prevent them from being used as an offensive weapon (by dragging monsters onto parties), from making areas more difficult than intended (by dragging monsters like drow rogues all over the place), and from accidentally damaging parties (by passing them and dumping monsters on them).

Would obviously make it easier to train pacis (I think?), but since I care not a bit for the class one way or another, supported.

[Squee]

Mmm hmm, Trevayne brings up a pretty sexy idea.

However, I think that Pacifists who are NPK'ing should be banned or at least punished in some way. This would act as a detourent for other would be abusers.

(Perhaps JLH could comment on how plausible Trevayne's idea is?)

[Snoopy]

yea i agree its a problem but do not agree that they should stop stoped going past kill to pass - even retreat. Mianly doe to them then being blocked from the entire tirentek area, and the entire of mount sentent (gnome caves and basnshee)

[plugwash]

the mountain lions at least last time i checked chased my paci

mind you only some of them are kill to pass.

[Evaporate]

Maybe this is being overly thought about? Its obvious that certain squares can be set to no drag 'TO', why not have any KTP square, also set to no drag?
Example: Square connecting Large Forest with Royal Forest, or, up until recently...... the square connecting the large forest with the meadows (a magimox is set to spawn on that square, and since its a no drop TO square, that magimox can be dragged off the square, into the large forest)