37 replies to this topic

[Freek]

I say to give paladins depurate undead. This would make them stronger against the undead without surpassing clerics as the top healing class. This would aslo fit into the RP aspect as paladins are supposed to be able to purge the undead. Since this will not affect anything besides PvM against undead I don't see how this would make them OP. The mana cost and stat use might need to be altered but other than that I don't see an issue.

[Autek]

Would be nice to see it as a boss drop, perhaps an alternate to Blackguard Burton.

[Pureza]

Maybe an alternate for Lord Darksparrow. Blackguard Burton already has 4 drops. But putting it as an alternate on Lord Darksparrow would reduce the chances further of getting a Sword/Pendant of Light.

[Autek]

For 1-Alt an alternate to Burton anyways, and that's just an idea.

A whole new area would be better IMO. Also, I don't know how necessary it would be on main. Even with it I can't see them being used much in everyday parties. It would be most useful in bringing use to the class on 1a.

[Crane]

Could be interesting, if putting more value on 5-stat Paladins. Could be a little dangerous having it on 1-alt, but might be okay... multi-alt you can probably get away with.

[Autek]

Paladins got the shaft when the healing bonus was taken away because Clerics with DR were getting way too much experience in comparison to other classes. That basically nuked the paladin class until recently when everyone got tired with their other GM classes and people started to train paladins to attempt Darksparrow. Even now the class is rarely used as a main character, just merely as an alt to log on for a single trip on occasion.

It seems that the paladin class' hit rate will never be tweaked, so perhaps this will suffice to perk some interest in the class. I'd say keep Charisma as the determining stat as well.

And 'getting away with it' on main would only be because few if any would utilize it. It wouldn't make them worth using in a main party over a ranger or zerk. The attempt is to balance the class with the rest, and this could at the least help accomplish this on 1-Alt seeing as the intricate coding of hit rates etc. aren't being touched.

EDIT: Spelling.

Edited by Autek, 10 January 2011 - 09:18 PM.

[Freek]

Paladins got the shaft when the healing bonus was taken away because Clerics with DR were getting way too much experience in comparison to other classes. That basically nuked the paladin class until recently when everyone got tired with their other GM classes and people started to train paladins to attempt Darksparrow. Even now the class is rarely used as a main character, just merely as an alt to log on for a single trip on occasion.

It seems that the paladin class' hit rate will never be tweaked, so perhaps this will suffice to perk some interest in the class. I'd say keep Charisma as the determining stat as well.

And 'getting away with it' on main would only be because few if any would utilize it. It wouldn't make them worth using in a main party over a ranger or zerk. The attempt is to balance the class with the rest, and this could at the least help accomplish this on 1-Alt seeing as the intricate coding of hit rates etc. aren't being touched.

EDIT: Spelling.

This

[Stig]

Cannot be supported due to the relatively cheap mana cost for something more powerful than Cleric's Aid, and the fact the spell is exclusive to Pacifists.

[Pureza]

I'm sure the mp cost could easily be altered. The last Christmas quest on main, Scroll of Pacifist Protect was one of the drops. Making a mage only spell, a mage/pacifist spell.

[Freek]

Cannot be supported due to the relatively cheap mana cost for something more powerful than Cleric's Aid, and the fact the spell is exclusive to Pacifists.

I'm sure the mp cost could easily be altered. The last Christmas quest on main, Scroll of Pacifist Protect was one of the drops. Making a mage only spell, a mage/pacifist spell.

^

[Cruxis]

Anything that makes paladins better is a good idea.

I didn't even see Depurate Undead being suggested when I read this topic. I saw a PvM attack for paladins so they aren't tipped in balance PvP, but given better exp cause for how slowly they gain it and still being crappy.

I actually think it fits very well. Paladins with an SoL would be hax against (most) undead, if a paladin were to attain one, it'd make this spell look like crap anyway. Make paladins better generally (if made easily available), but not as good as they already can be if they get a lucky drop, seems perfect to me!

Supported.

I'd also support a "Haste" for paladins that lasts as long as Holy Might (no stat mods on it of course). It's not really the higher damage of healing that makes clerics lvl so much faster, it's the +1 stam for 4-5 rounds that does it.

Lots of things could work for paladins, and there are many good ideas out there. Pick one already!

Edited by Cruxis, 13 January 2011 - 05:56 AM.

[Stig]

The team is against the idea of giving Paladins a 'killing spell'. From what I've seen, quite a few games don't give Paladins any kind of offensive spell, just support spells that mostly boost defense. Admittedly we have a subversion with the heal spells harming the undead, but it's not an outright killing spell, unlike Depurate Undead.

The staff are discussing Paladins though.

[Sausage]

I do not think increasing a Paladins healing strength against the undead is the answer to our Paladin balancing needs. I think we have one shot to get it right, might as well make it count.

Would it make training a Paladin easier? Yes. Would it balance them with other classes? Not in my opinion.

Not supported.

[Cruxis]

Depends on how staff are going with their "balancing."

The slow exp gaining Paladin should, in the end, be the most powerful.

Or they could make it gain exp faster, or the fastest, and stay as weak as they are.

Or they could just make all classes grey blobs that are just as strong as the other and gain exp at the same rate, but I doubt that's going down.

SoL is beast, if it were made more attainable on 1a, perhaps paladins would be more sought after (I'd definitely use mine if I had a SoL). Why bother JLH for something new when you can change many game aspects with equipment and mods ^.^

[Stig]

I would hope that more players would go after the Sword of Light. Hopefully most of the concerns about the area have been answered.

[Prototype]

Put back the healing players exp

Give parties extra exp depending on the amount of members in their party plus the amount of diversity (excluding covert characters).

Give mobs class modifiers, for example, a flying mob would be damage most by ranger, then mage, then... (in % of the damage they already do). A speeding mob would be damaged most by a thief, then fighter etc.

Then cap the amount of players you can have in certain boss areas, and I'm sure diversity will be everywhere again, because classes will then suddenly be needed again. And going in somewhere with 10 thieves is going to be a pain if you wish to get by a lot of flying mobs.

Might even be able to code it so the damage multiplier (or diminisher) for classes won't change the exp gained, to make regular training a bit more fair.



Well that, or you can give a Paladin some spell that either elevates it above all others, or a spell that in the end will just not be used like most others. In any case, I would alter gameplay before I would meddle with individual classes. Even more since you might take 50 hours to develop a suitable new area, whereas John could actually make a change in a few hours.

Just needs to be discussed better, but since none of these improvements are for specific classes, I guess the playerbase can discuss it in a normal fashion.


A disclaimer, just something that popped in my head when I read this, just talking as a player here (not that I play, but you get what I mean).

[Freek]

The only reason this idea came to mind is because of how ridiculously slow paladins make exp. A cleric has a better time /a training then a paladin. The reason THIS idea came to mind is because it would in-fact give paladins a way to make exp more quickly without making them game breaking or straying away from the class. Also, I have stopped trying to come up with long drawn out ideas that will take a lot of effort on the admins side, and instead have been trying to come up with quick simple ideas that are still efficient.

"Does this fix the real problem with paladins" - No

"Does this give players a reason to maybe retry the paladin class" - Yes

[Apocalypto]

Agree with the last post. This is an effective way to make paladins a class worth using. Ridiculous how much more effort you have to put in to train a paladin. Well not effort, but time basically. And for what? This idea would make it worth training the class in my opinion, because it would make it way less of a grind to train a class that will still rarely be used except in hopes of obtaining a sword of light.

[Pureza]

I would hope that more players would go after the Sword of Light. Hopefully most of the concerns about the area have been answered.

As for Castle Darksparrow, the whole area can be completed on lvl 30+ paladins. So, I think the only concern is that people don't train paladins because it justs takes too damn long.

[Apocalypto]

Exactly. Takes way too long to level paladins. Another solution would be a paladin only area with crazy pod and not a big gold return.

I would hope that more players would go after the Sword of Light. Hopefully most of the concerns about the area have been answered.

As for Castle Darksparrow, the whole area can be completed on lvl 30+ paladins. So, I think the only concern is that people don't train paladins because it justs takes too damn long.

[Cruxis]

Make pod of paladin area 90-130s?

[Pureza]

I would hope that more players would go after the Sword of Light. Hopefully most of the concerns about the area have been answered.

As for Castle Darksparrow, the whole area can be completed on lvl 30+ paladins. So, I think the only concern is that people don't train paladins because it justs takes too damn long.

Meant to say 8 lvl 30+ paladins, dunno how I missed the 8.

[Autek]

The staff are discussing Paladins though.

Good to hear it. Something being done, even if it isn't DU is a plus. Players' ideas have been shot down countless times because of the supposed coding time required, and this wass just a suggestion that would both spark interest in the class and be relatively easy to do.

Put back the healing players exp

That's been needed for a while, and not just any small amount of experience. I'd say at least on par with demonics or vampire bats, if not more. I'd say like 60 pod for healing players.

Also, get a flat rate of experience for support spells like enhance, RF, champs, etc.

Call it easy training if you want, but it would encourage grouping tremendously. People would -want- to play their support characters like paladins and clerics. Trips wouldn't be put on hold because nobody wanted to cleric etc. Seems like all the negative changes to this server were to induce teamwork. . . Why not make a change that will encourage willing teamwork, not just force it?

[Cruxis]

Best line ever heard in the history of trying to make 1a better.

"Why not make a change that will encourage willing teamwork, not just force it?"

Autek just won.

[tehbirr]

Also, get a flat rate of experience for support spells like enhance, RF, champs, etc.

lol give paladins exp for castin spells on other players? no other class gets exp for casting spells, so how would that make pallys better? just an easy fix to cause bigger problems imo

[Autek]

Read the whole thread, those were my thoughts on one of Prototype's ideas for the game, not necessarily the topic of making paladins better.

Giving experience for support spells and healing would encourage grouping because support classes, not just damage classes, would get good experience for the trip.

[Freek]

Read the whole thread, those were my thoughts on one of Prototype's ideas for the game, not necessarily the topic of making paladins better.

Giving experience for support spells and healing would encourage grouping because support classes, not just damage classes, would get good experience for the trip.

Bill doesn't know how to read.

On a serious note. Bump k

[Freek]

It's been a year since I posted this and it got very good discussion. Since then I have seen fighters get critical strike and pallys get a minor boost.

The argument behind not implementing this was that they didn't want pallys to have a kill spell. Which aid can be and in d&d I remeber palladins being able to wipe the whole area of undead with a simple spell.

I still believe this would let paladins be the defender of the undead and support class. Nothing wrong with that imo.

Might not he the best dps or the beat healers but they would be effiecent in partys and against the unholy

[Freek]

I would like to add that I think that it should be charisma based since fighters now have 5 stats they are dependent on. This wouldn't effect the market near as much since most pallys are 5 stated or close anyways

[Shera]

Not Supported.

Part of the appeal at least for me in training a paladin is that I can chose to either be a mana ##### and h2k things OR beat the crap outta stuff. I dont know how much easier it would make a paladin to train with du, considering that a paladin can already go to undead mobs with a cleric and get CE'd and beat the crap outta the mobs or heal them. If my paladin goes to say rax with even our lvl 27 cleric and gets CE, hance, and with Champs cast I can do more damage then a cleric does to the mobs healing them.
The only benefit I would see for having this spell would be to make it so that paladins would then do more damage with the spell then they could by hitting the monsters, thus making them even more powerful then clerics against the undead. Which would make them even easier to train then a cleric...but only if they use healing spells. Seems like it would make them even more unbalanced that way, and make them less of a holy warrior. Ugh and then paladins and clerics would compete for places to train.

Piddy's input;
Shera with CE and hance (from an arch cleric) with champs cast can do 151 damage per stam to undead with soe(that would be near 300 damage with a sword of light)..I think that's enough damage.

Imo heal training is just something that you do to get to lvl 25. A level 23 paladin with justice blade can hit over 100 damage spelled the same way.. Find a friend who likes to cleric (you all have one).

If a paladin was to heal for 100 then he would ignore clerics and heal with a paladin that gets stam faster without having to holy might, and would break it because a 29 dex paladin is untouchable by mobs.