24 replies to this topic

[Crane]

As most of you know, the Crystal Shards is meant to be a long-term quest where players can kill some relatively weak monsters to obtain Crystal Fragments and, occasionally, higher-end shards. A few other monsters and bosses drop low-end Crystal Shards as well.

Recently, some new level 31+ bosses have appeared on the multi-alt server, one being Genevieve, the Mage-only boss. While I am all for unique bosses like her, it has been kept under wraps a bit that she drops high-end Crystal Shards fairly frequently, including the Perfect Crystal Shard, equivalent to 100,000 Crystal Fragments. This really defeats the whole purpose of the quest, as what may take three years of hard work on Magimoxes is suddenly made pointless by a path that allows the coveted prize at the end (Staff of Light) to be obtained in, perhaps, only a few months.

The issue I have with Genevieve is that only two or three players actually have level 31 Mages and it provides a monopoly over the Crystal Shards, without having to go through the hard work and patience of killing Magimoxes and Magimoxama if you are lucky enough to find him in (rarely spawns). Not to mention that Genevieve is high XP and drops generous gold as well.

Okay, to get a level 31+ mage is a very good job and should be rewarded, but not through the Crystal Shards like that, because those who have collected them the traditional way will feel nothing short of cheated to learn that the Magimoxes have been made obsolete (and I am not the only one who has been collecting them that way).

I propose knocking Genevieve's drops down a notch, so her best reward is a Brilliant Crystal Shard, although keeping her worst drop as the Dull Crystal Shard somehow.

Edited by Crane, 16 October 2008 - 03:51 PM.

[Pandilex]

100,000 seems a bit high lol

how many of those shards were in game before the boss was introduced?

[Crane]

Well, I have 2 Perfect Crystal Shards and Veranda / MysticStorm has 1 - that much I know; she and I have a friendly rivalry over who can get them the fastest! I might have obtained my second after Genevieve was introduced though; I cannot quite remember now.

Edited by Crane, 16 October 2008 - 12:55 PM.

[Sausage]

I'd say 50/50; Dull/Brilliant when it drops shard.

Supported.

Edit: Why isn't this in Suggestions?

Edited by Sausage, 16 October 2008 - 07:30 PM.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

um, dont play main... what item does it take to lvl a mage to 31 or w/e?... as it is a nopk server it surely isnt that hard to train a few mages to 31... besides that, almost all recent additions to the game are unfair.. adding lvls after 30 period is unfair, because some people chose to get massive ammounts of exp without good reason... most people didnt choose to do this, thus being "unfair"... but being a nopk server, i dont see why the staff of light is all that coveted, considering mages main purpose is pking... but w/e, i just dont see a problem as this boss is available for everyone... i could see where your pissed that people can catch up to what work you have already done, but if im not mistaken you were one of the few that did have extra exp on your crits...

[Hustle]

i dont see the reason behind lvl 31-40 on multi server anyways considering you can log on what 20 chars at a time? lol yea 15+ lvl 35 zerks (maybe not more stam but deff more dmg and life lol) and a couple lvl 35 clerics yea, that's not over kill at all

and i dont really see any reason for a quest that is going to last three years of hard work when prolly only one person is even going to ever get the staff of light

[Pandilex]

I don't think his complaint is that the boss exists, just that it drops a disproportionally high level of crystal.

Perhaps a better analogy would be to take whatever weapon/armor is very very difficult to get (for example, from a recipe) and putting it on a low level boss, thus invalidating all the hard work the best players in the game have taken to obtain it.

[shomer]

i'm the only one who kills it that i know of, and i think it's unfair to everyone else who did the work to craft those shards. i shouldn't be able to just farm genevieve and make a staff in a fraction of the time it'd take otherwise. it's not something i was really working towards anyway, i just keep the shards to see how far i get. i think the drops should be reduced as well, to dulls and brights. in 24 attempts i've only gotten one perfect shard drop, it's mainly brights but brilliants are sort of common as well. it could be shifted down a notch, having the brilliants drop as often as the perfects do, and so on

[Gaddy]

There is a sensible reason for Genevive's drops, in my opinion.

A few really high level mages, working hard a couple hundred times for a drop that applies to them--- makes much more sense than a bunch of random characters killing a pathetic annoyance in the meadow right next to Nightmist...


I understand that this is arguable or 'unfair' to players who killed a ton of Magimoxes, but it isn't as if they've lost their progress---there is just a better route, if you want to work on the mages it takes.



As a note, this doesn't mean that I think the drops are perfect as they are right now. But the theory makes solid sense to me.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

at that rate it would take 150+ kills to get 10 perfect shards... and being as cg can drop brilliant, i dont see why a lvl 31+ mage only boss shouldnt have the potential to drop a better shard...

i dont think any game should be designed to take 3 years to obtain something in the first place...


EDIT: /nod Gaddy

Edited by XxDarkAlliancexX, 17 October 2008 - 02:01 AM.

[Crane]

Why shouldn't something take three years to obtain? Why shouldn't players with quite a bit of patience be awarded? That was the principle behind the Crystal Shards from my perspective, and it is the unique thing about them compared to everything else in the game.

Indeed, it is not easy to get a level 31 Mage, and a boss especially for them is a nice reward, but it should assist the work done with Magimoxes, not make it totally obsolete - getting shards twice as fast from a certain source is okay, but ten to a hundred times faster is unfair. Genevieve has very nice XP and gold alongside the drop, whereas everything else that drops shards is low XP and low gold. The Crystal Giant does indeed drop a Brilliant Vibrating Crystal Shard if /library is anything to go by, but I have not even seen a Bright Vibrating Crystal Shard from it yet; I doubt they drop very often, let alone the Brilliant variety.

If you work hard at Magimoxes, you can expect to get maybe a Bright Crystal Shard in a day, although this varies depending on how infested the Meadow is with bunnies, how generous the Magimoxes are with Cracked and Dull drops, the presence of Magimoxama, and if there are others collecting fragments as well as you. Therefore, a Bright Crystal Shard from Genevieve comes across as a very fair drop for a dayspawn boss - Brilliant is pushing it, especially if it is as frequent as it is, but a Perfect is a too much, especially if it is along the lines of 1 in 20.

I do not know what the exact drop rates are, but I would like to propose the following:

Dull Crystal Shard - 30% (Consider this the booby prize)
Bright Crystal Shard - 60%
Brilliant Crystal Shard - 10%

ADDENDUM: Proposed drop rates.

Edited by Crane, 17 October 2008 - 02:38 AM.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

maybe if you knew the current drop rate i could level with you better... but as of now you are just speculating that this drops about 1 in every 25 kills... but whos to say it doesnt actually drop 1 in every 100+ and he didnt get lucky?

[shomer]

i may have gotten very lucky, but from what i've seen the drops are near the area of dull 10%, bright 50%, brilliant 35%, perfect 5%..again that could be wrong on the perfects but it seems right so far

[Crane]

Just to explain myself... I am training a couple of Mages to investigate the boss myself; they are currently at level 30 (I bought them originally just to fight Gristle [boss is Gnome-only on multi-alt] and the Demilich). From what I have heard, it can be soloed with a single Mage, provided there are extra Lodestones dumped on her boss square beforehand; a pair of Mages shouldn't have a problem in that case.

If Genevieve was the only monster that dropped Crystal Shards, I might accept the current drop rates considering what the prize is at the end, but as there are four other monsters that drop them, but whose combined yield is still about ten times worse than that of Genevieve, I'm really against making Brilliants and Perfects drop that often. Sure, Genevieve should be a good way to collect shards, but not that good.

As I reiterate, a Bright Crystal Shard, if it is the most common drop by far, is a very fair drop because that is around what you will gain from a day of hard Magimox training, so combining Genevieve with the Magimoxes will roughly halve the time it takes to create the Staff of Light, and your Mages get a bout of good training as a bonus.

The other issue is that very few players can fight Genevieve. If there were several dozen players with access to level 31+ Mages, then the current drop rates could be justified because several people will be fighting over her; even those not collecting Crystal Shards would be a fool to not sell on those they acquired. At least before Genevieve, a Brilliant Crystal Shard fetched around 500,000 gold and a Perfect Crystal Shard found ten times that amount.

Some of you have said "big deal" to the Staff of Light, but if PKing is re-enabled, its value will soar, if not for the Vamparic and Mana Leech properties, then for the +2 Armour and the +1 Intelligence.

ADDENDUM: An idea... since the Crystal Shards still exist on the 1-alt server, why not introduce Genevieve there as well, with the current drop rates? Maybe in a slightly harder area perhaps. With more players with level 31+ Mages, the Shards will be more evenly distributed. I would still like to see the Magimoxes back though, but in their own out-of-the-way area and not the Meadow.

Edited by Crane, 23 October 2008 - 02:12 AM.

[Gaddy]

In my opinion, the Staff of Light would be a great weapon for mages, but it would not really change much about them. It is not some kind of vast improvement or difficulty. At the very least, I don't see how one created every six months to a year or so would be a big problem, though I suppose I have a slanted view since I've always been against leaving the Magimox.
And that would take killing the boss every day, which is not common on any boss for a single player. The current problem, in my opinion, is that the game is not populated enough to distribute the shards and kills coming from Genevive.

Again, I'm not very strongly for or against anything on this subject. I'm just saying what's on my mind.

[Crane]

I find a lot of items on Nightmist do not actually improve a crit considerably... they just appear to. The Crusader's Crest, at least when Trevayne and I created it, hardly affects a Paladin's damage at all, but the fact that it is 40 armour and +1 Strength is enough in itself to be valuable.

Similarly with the Staff of Light, the +1 Intelligence and the Vamparic and Mana Leech properties will make it valuable, even though Mages are not likely to mêlée attack and +1 Intelligence only puts 3 points of damage on Beam, and that is against something without any Wisdom, like Bunnies. People want shiny items!

I can see why some people, including yourself Gaddy, dislike Magimoxes... the fact they are more or less an infestation of a beautiful meadow and that they are really nasty to initiate and apprentice crits. A new area for them would help, I feel (if you're interested, I still have my map design of the "Crystal Caves" area). I don't want to see them disappear though, especially because I have always considered them the primary source of Crystal Shards, and the 'proper' way of obtaining them, through lots of patience (and that is my own slanted view). It's a pity that there aren't more players on the multi-alt server, especially high-level Mage users, because this would spread Genevieve's Shard drops out a lot more, but at present I feel that they are too good and too concentrated to a small group. I've said that enough though, I think.

[Raylen]

There is a sensible reason for Genevive's drops, in my opinion.

A few really high level mages, working hard a couple hundred times for a drop that applies to them--- makes much more sense than a bunch of random characters killing a pathetic annoyance in the meadow right next to Nightmist...

I understand that this is arguable or 'unfair' to players who killed a ton of Magimoxes, but it isn't as if they've lost their progress---there is just a better route, if you want to work on the mages it takes.

As a note, this doesn't mean that I think the drops are perfect as they are right now. But the theory makes solid sense to me.

Your logic is flawed. It's the equivalent of putting a good drop on an easy boss. Magimox are only pathetic because you think they are, and you do not have the patience or inclination required to attempt the quest - does that invalidate the quest?

[Gaddy]

I do not intend to aquire a Staff of Light through either method. My opinion isn't based on what I want to do or how. It is based on the fact that the quest has always been something I was against, and I've felt for a long time that it is just another thing that Simon tossed into the game because he doesn't care about Nightmist.
Now, my logic being flawed---whatever. There is no sitting here and explaining any of this as logic.

[Pandilex]

Why were you against it? It rewarded a lot of hard work, at the time it was released it caused a jump in the popularity of the game, and a lot of people had a real goal again which increased their morale, or so I thought.

[Thunderja]

Going to have to agree with Gareth/Alan/Simon/everyone apart from Gaddy on this one.

I think it's a slightly tacky "quest", but it had me swinging at those little bastards in the meadow for a week or so. Some people are obviously far more focused and patient than me and everyone else who quit. To give us an easier task of it now is simply unfair to those people.

[Sleeping]

Why were you against it? It rewarded a lot of hard work, at the time it was released it caused a jump in the popularity of the game, and a lot of people had a real goal again which increased their morale, or so I thought.

"Reward" and "real goal" are key words here. Before the long, people realized that the raw time (estimated at 2000 hours of game time playing 20 alts; to illustrate what an outlandish amount of time that is, you can say that one could easily make some 200-300mil gold (and some billions exp) playing the same time in museum or desert instead!) makes Staff of Light impossible to aquire.

Although, on the other hand, I agree that Genevieve is too good. I understand that Trevayne's idea was to create some really profitable bosses to attract players back to game but crystal shard drop rate and gold should be lowered to make her more in line with the other bosses.

Edited by Sleeping, 31 October 2008 - 11:58 AM.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

dude..thats only ike 75 days.. ... lolz.. ya.. i say lower drops down one step and add it to 1 alt with current drops

Edited by XxDarkAlliancexX, 31 October 2008 - 11:30 AM.

[Sleeping]

dude..thats only ike 75 days.. ... lolz.. ya.. i say lower drops down one step and add it to 1 alt with current drops

2000 hours online time = 83 days online time = one full year (355 days) playing nightmist 5,6 hours a day.

Some maths homework:

I'd say 50/50; Dull/Brilliant when it drops shard.

Supported.

100*0.5+10.000*0.5=average 5050 crystal fragments per kill
Would take average 198 Genevieve kills to get Staff of Light

Dull Crystal Shard - 30% (Consider this the booby prize)
Bright Crystal Shard - 60%
Brilliant Crystal Shard - 10%

100*0.3+1000*0.6+10.000*0.1=average 1630 crystal fragments per kill
Would take average 613 Genevieve kills to get Staff of Light

Estimated current drop rate:
average 11250 crystal fragments per kill
Would take average 88 Genevieve kills to get Staff of Light

Edited by Sleeping, 31 October 2008 - 12:11 PM.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

2000 hours online time = 83 days online time = one full year (355 days) playing nightmist 5,6 hours a day.

holy nuts.. ive always thought there were 10 more days in a year

Edited by XxDarkAlliancexX, 31 October 2008 - 12:02 PM.

[Sleeping]

2000 hours online time = 83 days online time = one full year (355 days) playing nightmist 5,6 hours a day.

holy nuts.. ive always thought there were 10 more days in a year

There are only 355 days in Sergei's year! Fine; 2000 hours online time = 83 days online time = one full year (365 days) playing nightmist 5,4 hours a day.