37 replies to this topic

[green_mantis]

If Paladins are holy warriors why do they kill people?

Paladin: "I am a defender of justice."

Newbie: "Wow, a paladin, I can trust him."

Paladin: "Yes you can trust me little one."

Newbie: "Wow, thank you mister Paladin man."

Paladin: "No Problem."

(Draws sword)

*SHWING* *CLANG* *HACK* *HACK* *SLASH*

Newbie: "Noooooooooo..."

Paladin?: "Mwahahahahaha"




What part of that seems wrong to you guys? Is it the part where an innocent person gets slaughtered for no reason? Because that's what got me.



Paladins are holy warriors who exist to protect the weak and innocent. Which is why I don't think they should be able to attack other players.




(Another scenario)

Paladin: "I am a defender of justice."

Archmasters: "Hey look a paladin."

*HACK* *SLASH* *WHACK* *SLASHANDBURN*

Paladin: "I only wanted to help..."

Archmasters: AH HA HA HA HA LOOK AT HIM SQUIRM!!



The above illustrates a reason to not allow Paladins to be pked.
Paladins exist to protect others so why would other people want to attack and kill them?

of course I would like to have a system where people who hunt people would be able to be hunted by paladins without the paladins accidentally endangering innocents.

(As a side note I have only a few paladins, none of which are arch. but the reason behind this post is that I have a very idealistic view of what a paladin should be.)

[DragonHeart]

won't happen,its like druids,their supposed to be the defenders of nature,yet they kill animals.

[Ryuku]

/nod DragonHeart

[green_mantis]

True, Druids are protectors of nature, which would mean protecting a starving animal from suffering.

Would you rather starve to death, or have your life ended abrubtly?

[Ryuku]

Wait..my opinion changes, Paladins should not be able to attack, but can be attacked, like a pacifist in the real world, they can be attacked, but they refuse to attack. Unless in the real world there is a diety, a Paladin in NightMist should be like a pacifist in th real world. (I'm not sure if I sound stupid or not).

[Squee]

I say Staff appoint councils within every sect of classes; these councils would moderate the behavior of all its members. One slip up and... punishments are made.

...But, yeah. What are the chances of that happening?

[Charon]

The problem here is your view of the term "holy"
You associate holiness with goodness, but perhaps that's being a little short sighted.

Holiness tends to be associated with gods more than goodness.

ho·ly (adj. ho·li·er, ho·li·est)
Belonging to, derived from, or associated with a divine power; sacred.
Regarded with or worthy of worship or veneration; revered: a holy book.
Living according to a strict or highly moral religious or spiritual system; saintly: a holy person.
Specified or set apart for a religious purpose: a holy place.
Solemnly undertaken; sacrosanct: a holy pledge.
Regarded as deserving special respect or reverence: The pursuit of peace is our holiest quest.

Set apart to the service or worship of God; hallowed; sacred; reserved from profane or common use; holy vessels; a holy priesthood.

Paladins have their powers because they have devoted their lives to their gods, to their worship... and perhaps also to their wars.
Paladins are the warriors of the Gods.

Yes, one might hope that a Holy Warrior would worship good gods, would fight evil, defend the wronged and heal the injured... but what about those who worship other gods? Nastier gods?
Those Holy Warriors might well be rather more... unpleasant.

These warriors of darker nature might well kill that helpless traveller, might well swipe the pennies from a beggars bowl or overlook that starving child. Those Paladins of Darker Gods might well strike fear into the heart of the good- indeed would attempt to strike down the good in the same way good is intended to strike down evil.

A Paladin is the warrior of whatever God or Gods they happen to serve, whatever God or Gods they happen to believe in.
They hold their faith above all else, and their Gods grant them the power to heal themselves so that they can continue their worship in whatever way.

What right have we, really, to say whether a Paladin MUST worship a God of Help or Healing?


Sidenote-

I say Staff appoint councils within every sect of classes; these councils would moderate the behavior of all its members. One slip up and... punishments are made.

...But, yeah. What are the chances of that happening?

This is an interesting idea
I'm interested in how this might work though ... "moderate" can mean many things, and it sounds although it would try to force people to adhere to some code of conduct... which I don't see many people being supportive of

Edited by Charon, 05 October 2004 - 04:17 PM.

[Squee]

Obviously, the entire body (or brotherhood) in all of Nightmist would have to agree on a set of laws, beliefs and values that the majority could agree upon.

...Hence, the chance of this happening is a zero-sandwich without the bread.

[Drac]

Paladins are the warriors of the Gods.

God must have a crappy army...

[TimmyRamone]

lol.

[Zeppelin]

How about paladins can't attack unless attacked first

[Terence]

Bin Laden is considered a holy warrior by the islamic people, and he doesn't murder? Holy Warrior is just different point of views

[Despair]

Pallies are dodgy clerics that can use some fighter weapons and have a dex spell that seems uneffective

Edit:

Edited by Despair, 20 October 2004 - 06:40 PM.

[Cule]

Muders!

[Satterlee]

Wait..my opinion changes, Paladins should not be able to attack, but can be attacked, like a pacifist in the real world, they can be attacked, but they refuse to attack. Unless in the real world there is a diety, a Paladin in NightMist should be like a pacifist in th real world. (I'm not sure if I sound stupid or not).

You just want to keep paladins from attacking because I own you.

[Sean]

This can be found ingame -

The Paladin - with one hand killing, the other healing, good and evil in a true balance, but good cannot exist without evil, and for one to destroy the other, it destroys itself as well.

Enough said.

[Crane]

I already have that in Crane's profile. Amazing what you find if you look around a bit with /read.

[Squee]

It's simply a shame that Paladins can't lose their title (demoting themselves into Fighters) by doing terrible acts.

[green_mantis]

Or, if it could be coded, it would be nice for a paladin to be able to attack only those players with more pks than themselves, and then if they were still able to attack other people they could heve their powers of spellcasting taken away, by planting a special token coin of cyric on them, and having their powers only come back after completing a quest that consisted of mostly helping people and protecting npcs from evil monsters.


I am aware that both sides of the fulcrum believe they are the "good guys", but I am writing this in the position of the current paladin, not the evil one that does not exist ingame.

You don't think the ones ingame are not evil? Try casting an offensive spell.



Basically, Karma...

[Ryuku]

Paladins..hmm, maybe for ever 10 pks, they can have a point of damage added, paladin hits a zerker with 500 pks and paladin had full spells of str You attacked Berserker with your soveriegn sword for 130 points of damage. Hmm, I like it x.x

Edit: Sorry to post in an old topic, but I was bored + I love to read the first topic when I'm blue, so freakin funny.

Edited by Ryuku, 05 January 2005 - 07:59 AM.

[Crane]

Not everyone wants to be a PKer - the peaceful ones will be at a major disadvantage if a Paladin can unleash that kind of damage from killing players.

[Malavon]

Not everyone wants to be a PKer - the peaceful ones will be at a major disadvantage if a Paladin can unleash that kind of damage from killing players.

I think it depends on the amount of PKs your target has, not the amount of PKs the paladin has, in which case it makes no difference how 'peaceful' the paladin is.

[Ryuku]

Yeah, depends how much pks the targer has x.x

[Tom]

how about you just say your paladin supports a evil god so he can just hack n slash anyone its his religion, and leave it at that?

[Squee]

Evil Paladins generally get different spells than those of "normal" Paladins.

Rather than healing others, they cause plagues.

Were I an evil or chaotic deity, I wouldn't grant the powers of light on my underlings.

[Snoopy]

Even evil wants to keep its self alive, and to heal other evil creatures goes towards that goal

[green_mantis]

Evil/"unholy warriors" would not be so concerned so much with spells for theirs or their minions health, as much as they would be concerned with spells that deal the most damage or have various ill effects.

If they were worried about getting critically injured, they would carry potions.

[Squee]

Even evil wants to keep its self alive, and to heal other evil creatures goes towards that goal

Correct me if I'm wrong but do you need to heal if you've already killed your opponent?

Were I evil, I would strive to mold myself into a remorsely killing machine. I wouldn't need to heal - if one were unfortunately to incur my ire, I would simply turn them into a fine paste on the end of my sword.

Or perhaps just maim them then fill the cuts with the poisons and diseases festering within my being, granted by my deity. The agony would please my deity, not self or comrade preservation (because in the end, pain is pain regardless if it comes from a minion or not).

[Snoopy]

/t squee Thats evil out of context - To kill another human or creature does not equate to total evil. The way you put things depicts total evil, whereas there are many forms of evil. Intelegent villans who use cunning and self preservation to further the dasterdly plans are just as evil as knife weilding psycos. And to add to that, a holy worrior can do horic things in the name of religion, just look at the past to see that.

[Squee]

Were a Paladin to do something that totally violates his (or his church's) creedo, they would first lose their title then their deity would strip them of their power (at which point they are no longer a Paladin in any way) and (in some churchs), the "renegade" would be sought after with extreme prejudice.

Yes, Paladins can do horrible things... but at that point, they are no longer a Paladin.

I don't think you can take evil out of context. Evil is evil, pain is pain, deceit is deceit - regardless of their form (pain caused by betrayl, evil as a means for ends, etc.), evil will please the deity. It doesn't matter if the pain is caused by the minion or if the pain is subjected to pain - it all goes towards evil intent and the pleasure of the deity - a deity who would not grant the powers of life and divinity.

This deity, regardless of what degree of evil is being done, will not grant things that bring long term happiness (they will not intervene to stop two individuals caught in an affair because, by doing so, the two people involved would ultimately be happier). Granting gifts of life and health are things that bring long term happiness (if not in the current world, in the next). Disease and plagues cause unhappiness and usually do not result in long term happiness (diseases kill, food becomes scarce, water reserves dry, war breaks out, more people die, war continues until one side is either wiped out or beaten into submission, both leave war shambles of their former selves).

Only in the rare case that the disease is used as a reminder to the people ("hey, since you're not sharing the food with everyone, I'm going to infect the cows with disease and when you eat them, you'll come down with stomache pains and diarhea") can it bring long term happiness. But even then, influencing a prophet can often result in the same.