5 replies to this topic

[Gaddy]

Okay, some monsters give experience for the killing blow, and I think that makes a lot of sense. Say, the satisfaction and extra boost of being the one that actually took down a big ol' Small Snake or Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs!

In fairness, Nightmist acknowledges killing is important - killers get the drop. So why not improve the experience system. Nightmist is a grind, and that's part of the game. However, adding kill exp can make it a more tactical grind for some (forcing kills onto an alt) or enjoyable and faster for others (just boosted exp for killing things).

 

 

I am proposing a standard (for almost all monsters!) of kill exp is equal to 2 to 10-rounds of damage on a monsters or 5-25% of the monsters total experience, but with bonuses for bosses.

For example, Bandit Leader is 63 experience per damage (xpd) and 50,000 kill experience.

This seems roughly correct for such a boss. It could be higher, but it at least exists!

 

50,000 exp / 63 xpd = 793 damage

That is maybe 7-15 successful attacks, depending on level and other things. My suggestion is that it be 2-10 rounds; so that is within the range. It is debatable if Bandit Leader is a "real boss" - so lower end makes sense. 

 

However, my case would suggest that Bandits should give a kill bonus!

Monsters have variable HP, but for our purposes, lets estimate 500 hp is the base for Bandits (sorry, I couldn't test to figure out their HP).

500 hp x 60 xpd = 30,000 experience total

So, I suggest a "kill exp" of 1,500 to 7,500 (5-25%).

 

 

This might be tedious to implement for a huge set of monsters - I really do not know monster editing demands. But I think it would greatly improve experience and play styles on Nightmist.

 

Additionally, it would better balance allowing more damage multipliers in-game. Because damage multipliers are basically experience multipliers as well. However, kill exp is a fixed value.

So, this would balance out the multiplied xpd by having a fixed amount going onto the killers. Rather than making certain classes or weapons completely out-scale those without multipliers, this would give a boost to kill focus that could balance.

 

In general, it's only an upside. So, I know some people feel like that is not 'balanced' - it's balanced. It is part of the game already. It just is not used properly, and that is silly. CHANGE IT!

Everyone gets extra experience, and some could attempt to abuse it by funnelling kills onto specific characters. BUT that is designed! Not abuse!

It would be healthy for players because they could introduce new characters they want to level, rather than feeling like a level 31 can NEVER catch up or be good enough to join a party of level 34s, etc.

If you're coasting enough to be able to funnel the kills, why not let those crits benefit.

And if you're not funnel-strategy, then your crits still get the boost across a whole party.

 

 

I think the above is perfectly reasonable and in-line with current mechanics, standards, and systems. It is just ignored.

Below, I propose a bit of an over-boost.

It could make the funnel strategy too strong for low levels, but I think that would be great! Being able to move past the mid-levels should be enabled better for ALL classes and characters. The mid-levels should be fun and move fairly quickly, but they're a HARD grind from 15-28.

 

Boss Boost - Kill Experience

I suggest that bosses get even more enhanced bonus for kill. I recognize some people don't boss, but that is a choice, and I've suggested all monsters be given kill exp - so that should help the grind without bossing.

However, lets give bosses their due! These are the baddies! These are the guys we are meant to take down with purpose! And Gold Sovereigns greatly improved their useful side. Well done.

 

However, only a subset got the kill experience boost, and it is often quite low because we were timid about how it would impact the game. People wanted to shackle the idea because it makes the game 'easier.'
Yes, getting bonus exp is easier than not, but...it's a game. Stop shackling it into the grind mentality.

Players are not 15-year-olds with 8-hours per day to dump regularly. So, giving bosses big bonus experience can help make them level without spending 8-hours --- not suggesting those should be equal, but putting in 30-90 minutes should feel like progress, even on high-levels.

To FEEL like progress, they need to be earning 10s of millions of exp --- and that cannot all be on kill bonus; cause it would be too much, most of the time.

 

My suggested listing:

 

Mini-Bosses: 25,000 - 100,000 exp

Bosses that are for level 15-25 or spawn at 5-10 minute intervals (avoid abuse).

• Elshira
• Giant Centipede
• Giant Crocodile
• Gardener
• Giant Cinder Beast
• Drow Blademaiden
• Undead Marcus
• Mayor Tvarti
• Mummy
• Seasonal Painting
• Totem Pole
• Armored Horse
• Hut Owner
• Mountain Ranger
• Balrog (maybe not now though)
• Hydra Body
• Rel-Thon's Chest
• Rel-Thon
• Sylva
• Scarlet Daggers Guild Informant
• Bandit Leader
• Teptok
• Waldren
• Drow Archmage
• Drow Mistress
• Stone Sentinel
• Dverger Blacksmith
• Dvergar Houndmaster
• Dvergar Shadowcaller
• Rogue Swordsman
• Quite a few more---the list could be debated

 

Bosses: 100,000 - 500,000 exp

Bosses that are intermediate, for levels 20-30, and/or spawn roughly hourly.

• ​Time Mage
• Time Mummy
• Atrium Monarch
• Captain Wylsen
• Wolf Lord
• Telatin
• Storage Cabinet
• Bolted Chest
• Vault Safe
• Herric - far more demanding than level
• Three-eyed Jack
• Mansion Owner
• Jaguar
• Again - quite debatable

 

Large Bosses: 1,000,000 - 2,500,000 exp

Bosses that only spawn roughly daily, require a moderate party, or pose challenges

• Crystal Giant
• Spider King
• Demonic General
• Bodyguard
• Chief Bodyguard
• Credenza
• Time Knight
• Lieutenant Burton
• Elder Treant
• Red Dragon
• Genevieve
• Giant Chameleon
• Lyzanthir the Enchanter
• Hedge Lord
• Banshee
• Dvengar Runemaster
• Marshall of the Inquisition
• Roc Hatchling

In general, these should still be in the 5-25% of total experience bounds. In fact, I think they're less. 

Put that into perspective - these bonus exp are not crazy high. It's a portion of total exp from the boss.

Maybe these should actually be on the higher end, with 2.5-5m if killing monsters is a real bonus!

 

Major and Grandmaster Bosses: 5,000,000 - 25,000,000 exp

Major and grandmaster bosses that require a strong, high-level party, multiple key-items, or are designated as grandmaster --- these I am kind of putting in order from lower-end to upper-end based on access limits, difficulty, and uber-ness.

• Blue Dragon - much longer trial to get to him since you cannot farm seals now
• Imhotep
• High Priestess Ku'nal
• Cauldron Chieftain
• Grande Inquisitor
• Nyr, Sleeper Under the Mountain
• Stone Dragon
• Resca
• Lord Darksparrow
• Ganymede
• Woobie
• Shadow Drake 
• Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs
• New stuff?

I know the numbers look big, but this is basically a rare bonus exp on some of the hardest, longest trips in-game. These things cannot be easily farmed without going to their area (except Imhotep, kind of). They are huge bosses, and the exp bonus would be in-line for them.

Overall, I think it makes bosses fairly aligned with the normal bonus exp.

I honestly could see putting huge bonuses for kills on even lower-level bosses.

 

 

 

In summary: experience should be more readily available and through more than ONLY grinding xpd. Some work was done to add, but the numbers are WAY too low to impact game-play.

 

Level 40 is a crazy trip with a huge latitude for extra experience here and there. Use it!

 

Right now, I think many of us are in a rut regarding Nightmist. Adding these bonuses just gives people another reason to go after monsters, bosses, and to PLAY the game. It is too much of a grind, and the top-end stuff is all great...but requires a group.

To get people to group, more than the drop should matter. Cause one person gets the drop, but everyone gets a shot at experience.

 

Furthermore, if anyone new came, they could get a level 25+ party with the kill bonus system much faster, and a level 25 party could go to most things, if they grouped with another player. So I really think the kill-exp on regular monsters would be a fantastic addition---basically a 5-25% boost in training speed for an overall party, or more if focusing kills onto a couple of characters.

[Bane]

"Right now, I think many of us are in a rut regarding Nightmist." - I've been in a rut for 3 years. The biggest problem for me personally is I just want to level my characters, but the game feels like up hill battle, and usually what happens after a short while is I get burned out and stop playing, then I'll come back and the vicious cycle starts again. Anything to help people spend less time in front of a computer, but still being able to enjoy the game and make PROGRESS I will support fully. I know others feel the same way for a long time now, so thanks for making this post Gaddy.

[BerserkedFrenzy]

I have read the OP entirely and I am in favor of the additio or augmentation of kill experience bonuses.

 

While there are some bosses that do give a nice amount of experience to the one who deals the final blow, that experience is still pretty puny. Four point eighty six billion experience times the characters you have or use.

 

Admittedly, it is not difficult to train. But this isn't exactly about training. This is about playing the game. There are those who only go bossing, and there are those who are too afraid to try fighting a boss. Let's, as the OP pointed out, examine how the game is played. All things are as according to its design, and so therefore Nightmist is as according to its design; if the monsters were designed to give a meaningful experience each time a character deals the final blow it would actually give purpose to these things rather than something to merely farm or grind on.

 

On to bosses. It is nice that the bosses currently already give a small experience when the final blow is dealt. But as OP has pointed out, it does feel as if the addition was a meek and timid decision. This is to say, certainly give bosses their due as the OP has asserted.

 

I think that doing this very thing would actually end grinding or bossing, and create a new style of playing such as actually going to places just because- exp is plentiful everywhere and you don't feel like that killing a Small Snake to obtain what seems like paltry experience and itsy bitsy gold is pointless. Most of the stuff get skipped by those who just go bossing, and those who actully train may find that obtaining kill experience bonuses not only from bosses but from monsters give them more freedom and play style rather than restricting themselves to a specific area because they find it to be "good exp and good gold".

 

Faravar, Dark Woods, Royal Forest, Mountain Sentant, Ancient Ridges, Xeric Scrublands, and let's not forget the Entangled Overgrowth and literally the wilderness around the besieged mining town of Tirantek all get little to no love. They are merely areas to run through, nothing more or less. If there's a kill-to-pass? Kill it. Anything else? BLAM THIS PIECE OF...

 

Ahem. So, on to servers. This would apply not just to multi-alt, but one-alt as well. I remember playing one-alt at some point and I'd used the Kayla trick to level a character from level 1 to 10 quickly. But why should we do that? Shouldn't it be enough to defeat a monster and gain a nice amount of experience each time the final blow is dealt? Then, when running in groups the whole party would actually have a chance of getting experience rewards and not just one player.

 

I do like the OP's suggestion as to the amount of experience given upon death. But I don't like how it is sort of ranked. I think that it should be as according to their stats, and this would be staff thing and beyond the players' knowledge at this point. But to make a suggestion, and I do not refute the OP's suggestions at all by stating that, the 5-25% or perhaps better termed as "ratio" in which the amount experience given upon death should be dependent on the total experience of this single enemy; the enemy's potential experience.. That would indeed be the base in the calculation for the amount of experience given upon death along with other calculations. If a Small Snake, easily seventy HP or just about, and they give forty experience per damage the total will be roughly two thousand eight hundred experience plus the very tiny bonus it already has. This tiny bonus is unknown to me, but let us say that it is two hundred. That theoretical experience upon death is just about seven percent of the total experience the Small Snakes each potentially have. But suppose that there are things that have one million potential experience? The calculation is as according to HP multipled by experience per damage. They, if at the theoretical ratio the Small Snakes have, would yield seventy thousand experience upon killing it. Is that a whole lot of experience? That is still small. Ten percent of a million is a hundred thousand. Now we're talking.

 

Perhaps the ratio can be calculated as: (Base HP) * (Experience per damage) * ((total stat points except HP) / 10)

 

Yes, the ratio needs to be worked out but I am in favor of this line of thought and certainly would like to see this being implemented. This is a great design tweak.

[Gregory67]

I agree with this concept heavily. For 1a my focus had been trying to redo the Enemy armor so that fighter, pally, druid could try to train a the same rate as berserker, thief, and ranger. Then my other aspects are making it so you can kill enemies in timely manner yet still have some challenge. I mean the most exp that can grinded out is prolly 7-10m per hour on 1a from what I have tested and seen on clerics or mages due to the most consistent damage. So anything to help with the monotonous grind would be a welcomed addition. 

[Gaddy]

O.o

 

Looks like a lot of this has been implemented!

Thank you for such a grind-style game update from the sysops perspective! I think it will greatly improve our options for how to mess around for exp as players!

 

And thank you for being willing to take player feedback in where you put your time and effort for improving the game!

[Gregory67]

Yes. I calculated it out on some of the mobs he made the change to and it saves so much time and effort over time. A+ update in my eyes! Yes, thank you for taking in our opinions and making changes based on our input.