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Sleigh Bells


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#1 LABec

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 07:50 PM

Library info for Sleigh Bells:

Armor base: .5, Can be worn by: clerics, druids, fighters, mages, paladins, rangers, thieves, pacifists, Description: A black leather strap with a chain of polished brass bells.  The bells jingle quietly each time they are moved., Level needed to equip it: 10, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0, Absorb spell: 0, Max equip: 0

 

The game does not display armor in decimals so what is going on behind the scenes? Is it already rounding up OR down?  When I equip these my displayed armor stays the same so in my head I'm getting 0 benefit from wearing these.

 

What are the odds these get bumped from .5 to 1?  I see items being modified now fairly frequently to keep the game balanced and other reasons.  This is almost a bug or an oversight IMO



#2 Eilonwy

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 05:51 AM

This was a purchasable item many years ago around Christmastime. There was a shop in Market Square you could just buy these from for like 15,000 gold. They couldn't be as good as boss drops obviously because they were just bought in a shop, sort of a fun item.

 

Yes, you need to equip both to receive any value from them as the .5 doesn't do anything. To my knowledge, there are many things that have decimal values or rounding happening where it's rounded down, as these would be.

 

I could remove the armor completely and allow them to be worn by berserkers as a trade off; we could discuss doing that.


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#3 LABec

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 04:48 PM

Thanks for responding,  I did not consider the idea of having two would make them useful.  

 

There are plenty of examples of shop purchased items that are as good as boss drop items.  Christmas bosses can drop +1 str bracelets but Christmas shops can't sell 1ac bracelets?

 

I thought it was 150,000 gold maybe I'm getting confused with main. I thought the shop was not in town, you had to find the Christmas area and then find the shop so there was the challenge of exploring the new area to be able to purchase. (Maybe I'm wrong) Back then even 15,000 was a decent amount of money 1alt was still very new and gold making wasn't like it is today with everyone having level 35+.  

 

0.5 was fair when the item was introduced,  I think only after other items being introduced to this game that give +1, +3, even +5 armor per slot than the previously known best item you now have characters with 20+ more armor than what was possible when Sleigh Bell's were introduced to the game and that is kind of what justify's the bump from .5 to 1 to keep older quest/Christmas items relevant. 

 

If we're talking about shop bought items, cobalt vamp being nerfed from .3 to .2 really hurt.  That's a calendar year worth of saving gold every day basically just to have an item's benefit be cut by 33% :(   

 

I know I'm way late to the party,  I'm active on this game for the first time since 2012, so a lot of these things are news to me.  BUT others coming back might have the same philosophy.

 

That's all the griping I'll do on this topic.  Thank you in advance for even considering!


Edited by LABec, 15 January 2021 - 04:56 PM.


#4 Eilonwy

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 10:30 PM

So, I am not sure whether to respond here or in the cobalt post, so I'll just say a few things here that kind of cover both:

 

-- Also to preface, all of my responses are always specific to 1-alt only ---

 

I don't play multi anymore; I have played 1-alt since it came out. The Christmas shop where you bought Sleigh Bells was in Market Square for a few weeks around Christmastime and the bracelets were extremely cheap; I bought a few.

 

The Cobalt Staff of the Winds was originally created as a way to get gold out of the game, to have this "high end weapon" that you could shop buy. But in my opinion, I don't find the addition of the Cobalt to have been thinking about the future of the game at all; it was a cool idea and fun item at the time, but it has limited a lot of creation for staff going forward.

 

The Cobalt still wrecks our ability to create new, fun items for the game. Because we run into situations, such as this, where we try to make new items for game, and people are upset that their Cobalt has lost value.

 

It's the same problem we have for quest items. I can't make new boss drops that are better than questies in the past because people who have the questies get upset that their quest item is no longer as special.

 

I will say in the case of the Cobalt though, the years have changed a lot of things. Back in the day when Manda got first Cobalt on 1-alt, it took her months and months and months of grinding. Getting 10m gold back then was a crazy feat. These days, if I really, really wanted to, I could get a cobalt in a month or two if I had to.

 

As the game has evolved and more areas have been created; as drop rates have been increased on leveling items, and those leveling items are now shop sellable; as people are getting stronger with higher levels; as people are getting better gear; and as modded training weapons have been added, getting gold is much easier and faster now than it used to be in the past. Not to mention the fact that 1-alt no longer pks and kills each other, making training/golding much more sustainable.

 

As far as the strength bracelet from Claus this year, this was the first year we had so many bracelets, something not previously in game. My intent was to start introducing items to the game that we hadn't seen before. Ideally, I'd like to find ways to add them back into the game later for people who were unable to get them/because I feel questies get overvalued in this game because of rarity and I'd like to see them get added back in later, but I think we'd need to have an open discussion as a community about things like that.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see less vamp being used, and more people using modded weapons, at least on 1-alt; I don't play Multi, so I have no thoughts on what they need. I would like to see weapons stronger than Cobalt come out that you can craft and work towards. I personally don't like having a weapon that I have to work around and can't "make anything better than."

 

I'm open to ideas on what people think would be cool or neat, but it needs to be reasonable. I think the vamp on the Cobalt is fine where it is at. Many items in 1-alt that have vamp near it are either questies (so no longer obtainable) or crafted through a means of bossing and tons of collection (Cobalt Bow). The Cobalt is a way to get a nice vamp weapon without relying on boss drops or what have you, it's a "solo" weapon that's achievable through gold grinding.

 

To be honest, a good number of people prefer the training weapons to the Cobalts in 1-alt these days. I know at least one person sold their Cobalt to buy training weapons. I think you are just coming from a place of not having played in so long, you want to hold onto the dream of Cobalt being the number one weapon in the game. I'd like to evolve past this as best we can and find more fun weapons to use because let's be honest, running around for years just using Cobalt on every char you ever train with gets quite boring.


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#5 Cadabra

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Posted 18 January 2021 - 10:49 AM

I don't know many people who would rather have Training Weapons. This is a solo game and Vamp helps. We see this alot since Vamp is always asked for on boss runs.

 

I agree Balt is easily farmable but you can't use Manda as a reference because she also had the Crystal Knives she sold at the old rate.


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#6 Eilonwy

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Posted 19 January 2021 - 04:14 PM

Sure, you're right; it's all perspective, of course. I personally have all of my Cobalts in my vault and they've been there for months; I don't use chars that need them, in my opinion.

 

Only class that massively benefits from vamp to the point of choosing to train with it for me is Zerkers. Otherwise, everything else does better to train with a training weapon than anything else.

 

Considering most time is spent out solo and training, I was mostly thinking training/solo stuff. I wasn't really thinking about bossing or whatever where vamp is nice for a cleric or whatever the case may be; of course having vamp there is a plus.

 

And I was using Manda as an example because she was the first, but yes, she did have the Crystal Knives selling at the original rate for a good while, possibly even most of the time, but not the entire time she was gold farming. 

 

She also paid the original prices for leveling to 40, which if I'm remembering right, would have been:

 

Level 36: 2 million gold

Level 37: 4 million gold

Level 38: 6 million gold

Level 39: 8 million gold

Level 40: 10 million gold

 

Meaning in the end, she actually farmed, like, four Cobalts worth of gold in her endeavors, because leveling 36 to 40 was 30 million gold back then. There was also the 500k cost for the 5 tokens each level as well, but that's negligible in comparison to the Tarnished Trinket cost back then.

 

And to think, people still complain about only paying half that cost on 40, and much less than that 36-39 if using leveling items =p


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#7 Gnarkill

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 10:25 PM

I don't envy the situation the staff is in here.. and thank you all for continuing to spend your time working on NM for those of us that still log in.

 

IMO, I don't even care if Cobalts or Questies are the most powerful thing in game after all these years or not. I think it would be fun to have a new variety of eq options available to play around with in different situations.

 

I do see a few options when it comes to the Cobalt:

 

1. Leave it completely alone and create the variety of better weapons that eventually render it a overpriced relic that's still usable to people who wish to spend the $ but it won't be the best option in every situation. Players would just need to move on from the Cobalt mindset like you said.

 

2. Lower the Cobalts price in shop a bit to match the nerf.. this will obviously draw the ire of people who took the time to grind for the 10m. Maybe do a limited time shop buyback at full price before lowering prices so people can sell theirs for what they paid and then buy again when it's lowered? 

 

3. Let the people who have bought "Cobalt Staff of the Winds" keep theirs with its original stats as a "legacy item" that is no longer obtainable except for player trading. Then replace it in shop with something like "Cobalt _____ of the Winds" that is it's current nerf'd stat value or something even a little lesser... for a lesser price than the 10m price tag. 

 

Also, If something major is being done with the Cobalt what will happen with Scepter of Balance and Trinity Blade and such too?

 

 I support whatever changes staff wants make moving forward. If we nitpick and complain about every little change staff makes we're going to end up chasing the current staff away like we have with some staff members in the past. Nightmist as a game needs to be able to move forward.. I trust you guys to do whatever you think is best and I'll figure out how to adjust my play style from there.


Edited by Gnarkill, 22 January 2021 - 10:29 PM.

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#8 Eilonwy

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 08:18 AM

Yeah, those are all really great suggestions. There's of course never going to be a perfect answer that works for everybody, but all we can do is try!


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#9 Terron

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Posted 23 March 2022 - 12:02 AM

Lower npc damage across the board, especially on commonplace training npcs and remove vamp entirely.

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