20 replies to this topic

[Freek]

After talking to a few people and seeing that main will never get reset or whatever.. Im just wondering how hard it would be to do like what they did with 1a and copy the current main server and make a new drop down taking you to a new 20alt pkable server...

No one would have to get rid of what they have worked so hard to get and a way to start fresh.. I know people who stoped playing main because nopk and so on.

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I don't know how this would effect the server bandwith or what ever.. <No comp genius so this is all at JLH's decision im just wondering who would try and who would not..

[Trevayne]

Our worst mistake ever was opening 1a. It split the player base, tripled the work for the staff, and further pushed the admins away from working on the game.

Why repeat the same mistake?

[Neikan1]

imo Trev opening 1 alt was the best thing JLH did 2 nightmist.........and making the main server nopk was the worst mistake made

[Freek]

Our worst mistake ever was opening 1a. It split the player base, tripled the work for the staff, and further pushed the admins away from working on the game.

Why repeat the same mistake?

1a, you had to "balance races classes".

Main nopk made lots of people lose intrest.

A new main would not cause anyone to lose anything just another place for people play, the more options the more people have to choose from. the more people will play

A new main you would not have to balance anything. The competition between the players of nm would keep the "i want the 1st Guants of Virtue" etc busy for a LONG time.

Some people like the idea of being able to solo things and then have nice fights..

Consider it like the "NOPK" test. it can't hurt anything but it might help?

[Trevayne]

Main nopk made lots of people lose intrest.

Since main went no-PK, the number of active players there has increased steadily. Compared to the past year in which the number of players had decreased steadily, going no-PK is what saved the main server. Maybe a few people you know lost interest, but you can't argue with the numbers.

In any case, you've not addressed the three criticisms I had:
- splitting the playerbase further (like 1a did)
- making much more work for the staff (which any additional server does)
- making more hassle for the admins and getting us fewer game updates (which any additional server does)

How could it hurt? See #1-#3 above.

[Freek]

Main nopk made lots of people lose intrest.

Since main went no-PK, the number of active players there has increased steadily. Compared to the past year in which the number of players had decreased steadily, going no-PK is what saved the main server. Maybe a few people you know lost interest, but you can't argue with the numbers.

In any case, you've not addressed the three criticisms I had:
- splitting the playerbase further (like 1a did)
- making much more work for the staff (which any additional server does)
- making more hassle for the admins and getting us fewer game updates (which any additional server does)

How could it hurt? See #1-#3 above.

Slitting the playerbase -- Whos to say the alt users of main and the pkers of 1a dont run to this server to get both Pking and Alts? Dont know till you try eh? When 1a opend whoda thought thats where 70% of the playerbase would go.

Much more work for the staff -- What would staff have to do to this server to keep it straight? Its already balanced for alts... Harassing = ignorepc... Wouldnt need events/quest for a long time seeing as players would be competing for the top spots...

Making more hassle for the admins and getting us fewer game updates -- Wouldnt it be the same update as the nopk main?!

[deadman]

I agree with Trevayne, the worst mistake they made was opening up the 1 alt server before classes, monsters, etc could be balanced and laying it all on the staff team to do so once everyone was already running around abusing things that would later not be able to be done so on and so forth.

Anyways a third server is completely unecessary and would just add to more hassle for the current staff team which is slowly diminishing the way it is.. It'd be something extra for them to have to watch over and worry about at the same time as trying to balance 1alt and keep people interested in multi. Multi was made nopk for players to interact more and to get people to explore and new players to play. If you want pking then go play on the 1alt server where egos fly and pking is a plenty with little teamwork.

[Trevayne]

1) Splitting the playerbase: Sure, you might get people to play multiple servers... but that means fewer people on each at any given time, fewer people to fight against/travel with/compete against. The overall effect when 1a opened was that it took a server that was averaging 40-50 players at any time and made it into two servers that were averaging 10-15 and 15-20 at a time. No matter how you do the math, that's a loss.

2 and 3) It is more work. The servers are completely seperate. If I fix something on one server and it takes 10 minutes, I have to go fix the same thing on 1a and it takes another 10 minutes. If JLH gets 30 minutes to spend on Nightmist, I'd rather he spent 10 more minutes making bug fixes than another 10 minutes on dealing with the next set of clan issues on another server.

More servers also introduce more problems, no matter whether or not there are balance issues. There are more player complaints that are harder to track down because there are more things we have to keep an eye on. Players on 1a moaned and whined about having quests and events within 24 hours of the server opening, why would I think that this new server would be any different? More clan problems, more problems with theft, more, more, more.

Maybe instead of pretending that you know what the difficulties are, you could listen to someone who actually deals with them every day.

[Freek]

1) Splitting the playerbase: Sure, you might get people to play multiple servers... but that means fewer people on each at any given time, fewer people to fight against/travel with/compete against. The overall effect when 1a opened was that it took a server that was averaging 40-50 players at any time and made it into two servers that were averaging 10-15 and 15-20 at a time. No matter how you do the math, that's a loss.

2 and 3) It is more work. The servers are completely seperate. If I fix something on one server and it takes 10 minutes, I have to go fix the same thing on 1a and it takes another 10 minutes. If JLH gets 30 minutes to spend on Nightmist, I'd rather he spent 10 more minutes making bug fixes than another 10 minutes on dealing with the next set of clan issues on another server.

More servers also introduce more problems, no matter whether or not there are balance issues. There are more player complaints that are harder to track down because there are more things we have to keep an eye on. Players on 1a moaned and whined about having quests and events within 24 hours of the server opening, why would I think that this new server would be any different? More clan problems, more problems with theft, more, more, more.

Maybe instead of pretending that you know what the difficulties are, you could listen to someone who actually deals with them every day.

Im listening.

The hole splitting thing -- Yeah it went from the 40 on main to being 15-20 on each at a time or whatever but the only reason main had 40 as it was is because of the people who didnt quit or get permd (Witch there has been uh 20+ of those) and there was 40 because even tho some players were "gatesitters" cause there was nothing to do when 1a opend there was something new to compete for another option then the regular everyday 20alt scenrio.

More work thing -- I guess there is some bugs on main yall still deal with? I thought what staff did to main was add new areas, items and such. I guess that was my mistake.

Complaints -- Clan issues I dont understand the issues? Players harrassing each other - I think theres a command for that.. Theft - If it comes up just delet everything that was touched by the two or three people...

"Maybe instead of pretending that you know what the difficulties are, you could listen to someone who actually deals with them every day." - I don't know exactly everything ya'll do behind the scenes.. I do know that most the work is cause or put into 1a because of late balancing issues and what not. I didn't know that main still had bugs and things that needed fixing.

This is a 5% chance of happening anyways. You yourself obviously hate the idea and with that there is little to no hope of this being introduced. After talking to people who have either lost all intrest or are on the edge of it they liked the idea and i didn't see how it would hurt so much.. But I guess it can.

[Autek]

I'd vote for a staffless server lol

[Autek]

Well, maybe not a staffless server, but a server with staff who cared about it. Trevayne obviously hates the 1a server, so why is he in charge of it? Let him stick to the main server where he is happy and doesn't get upset for helping out.

There are plenty of people who love the 1a server and would likely make a great staffers if 1a needs more staff with the departure of Azure and the absence of Scripto.

[deadman]

They have said countless times that no more staff will be hired.. Also Trevayne is in charge of the multi server.. and Scripto/Oracle cover the 1alt server with Elf helping on both of them if I believe right. So yeah you may need to look into things before just posting off.

[Autek]

I'm trying to think of ways to help out Trevayne, because he obviously doesn't like spending his time working on the 1a server. If Oracle/Scripto/Elf are in charge of the 1a server then why does Trevayne need to worry about it? Staff donate their time and efforts. Trev shouldn't have to donate and spend his time on something he cares little for.

I see a problem in having someone in charge of something they hate, especially when they donate their time. I'm suggesting things to solve a problem. Rather than simply acting as an ass kissing drone uttering the obvious, try to help come up with a solution and make things better. I haven't attacked anyone until this point, and would rather have a decent discussion working towards a solution, wouldn't you?

[Trevayne]

Well, maybe not a staffless server, but a server with staff who cared about it. Trevayne obviously hates the 1a server, so why is he in charge of it? Let him stick to the main server where he is happy and doesn't get upset for helping out.

I do think that it was a terrible mistake to open it. It took a thriving active game and split it into two games with player populations that just barely keep them afloat.

I do still think that 1a should keep running though, and I've put my time and energy into that. I did most of the balance work in the first five months of the server opening, deal with most of the player complaints and thefts that 1a generates, and put together the quest that is running now. I do this even though I'm not the staff member in charge of 1a.

I don't hate the 1a server, though I do hate how it was done and I'd really don't want to see the same mistake happen a second time.

[Autek]

If you're cool with the extra time and effort that goes along with doing work on both servers, that's cool with me. It sounds like it has been you who has done the most work on both servers. That is, in terms of actually running the servers, not necessarily all the quest and player relations stuff.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is that there should be a staff member stepping up and running the show on the 1a server with as much interest, drive, and passion for it as you have for the main server. If it is as deadman says, and no more staff will ever be hired, then I encourage some of the staff who truely like the 1a server and that are supposedly in charge of it to step up and take the lead.

[Throwback]

At this point it's kind of late for me to put my sense in and for it to matter, but I'm going to do it anyways.

1) Splitting of servers: I am a NM player, not main, not 1a, but NM. While my focus is on 1a, I haven't forgot what I've done on main, or the fun it contains. When 1a was released, I waited a month and a half to even log onto the server. The month of it's release, main practically died, everyone wanted to try the new thing. Month or two shy of the server being out for a year and main and 1a have evened out. Those that got bored of the "drama" on 1a or those that got bored of the "same old routine" picking the server that better suits them. I however hold the opinion, that releasing the 1a server was a very bad decision. The player base was fading before the introduction of another server and the introduction of a new place to send the players weakened it further. However I feel that staff are under the false assumption that "new" players are roaming the main server realm. I find a more plausible answer is that those that defected to 1a, have simply retreated back to main. The influx of a more active server is more the dying of one, than the rebuilding of another. Jordan's inquiry into the possibility of cloaning the servers, and making a hybrid of the 2 is basically a call to make main pkable again.

Solution: The problem now with NM is that the only real solution, 1a balancing/main nopk/division of playerbase, is simply to make 1 server, a hybrid of both servers.
Neccessary steps:
1)Reset of both servers (it is impossible to say that main server crits or hardwork is more important 1a server crits and hardwork, and it's also impossible to merge 1a crits to main simply because it is easier to obtain wealth and such on main and the 1a chars would feel the shaft if they were thrust onto the main server.
2)The nopk aspect: pking has always been a factor of nm. In order to truly make this reset effective, the new server must be made pkable. However I have a solution for those that wish to remain pacifist. This however would require JLH. When a clan is made, a player must choose whether the clan is Non-Pacifist (as in pking) or Pacifist. This allows players to sort of choose sides, but still interact with the other players who enjoy that aspect of the game. If you inhabit or call a NOPK clan your home, you are free to roam without worry. The only possible drawback is having a person in your party (as in your char) able to use the ./clan invite alts command. The situation I am describing. You roam around in your nopk clan when you come upon a group that you do not like. So you spell up and disband on all alts except the character with Leadership/Foundership and attacking then using the command to become untouchable. I have no idea how to prevent this except making a character forever locked to a certain setting or an account. Make this server based on accounts. You can make player's choose what an account is set to and only allow 1 account per isp. so that you cant switch to NOPK during gameplay. Only possible by switching chars from account to account which would delay any eminent attack.
3)Making One server: Obvious I hope by this point my idea is to remerge the playerbase and staff to one server. I've covered my attempts to satisfy both the servers attempts at pking/nopk, starting everyone off in the same shoes, no passed down wealth, no overpowered alts. My last idea has been discussed as well. The issue of keeping powerful items a rarity, keeping cobalts in lowered amounts. My idea is to introduce a lowered alt limit. Anywhere in the 5-10 range preferably the 5 will force the co-op that staff push for someone to get the items of great power. You may choose to go 1a or run up to five and if your goals and wishes are to be big and powerful, you can do it at your own pace and with others. This server forces you to NEED someone, unlike main, it however gives you more freedom to go out and play unlike 1A.

I've tried to incorporate the best of both, merge the servers, and give everyone the same chance. Many have much to lose and are unprepared to make a sacrifice. I don't blame them or crucify them. I'm just throwing an idea out there. It's up to us to take the leap, up to us to want the better game. So if you have a better idea by all means post. We have enough yes men and haters, we need those that help further a solution, not those that wish to stop the growth.

[Trevayne]

Unfortunately, just picking a position in the middle of everything doesn't satisfy anyone and leads to everyone being unhappy.

Personally, I think that two options (1a and main) is just fine. Start making more servers to satisfy other rules configurations and soon you'll have people yelling for 100 different servers. Try to merge back together and you'll end up alienating virtually everyone. Main and 1a have become what they are because they support the two common play styles that people were calling for over the years: one tailored toward people who want to do things on their own in peace and one tailored to people who like the thrill of the kill.

You have twice the options you had before... how about we all try to be satisfied with this nice free thing that you've been given?

[Autek]

That is the kind of progressive thinking that we need.

However, I don't think that a hybrid server would be the answer. At least not as far as just having a reduced alt limit. The reason people never played on one character on main is that they are at a competitive disadvantage. Having a 5-10 alt limit would just make everyone play that sized party, while the person on one character is still at a disadvantage.

Kind of busy right now, but more thoughts to come.

[Redheart]

"how about we all try to be satisfied with this nice free thing that you've been given?"

AMEN TO THAT STATEMENT!!

Everything Trevayne said I agree with. Statements Fearless made are true as well.
The Main server is thriving fine being NOPK and nicely without drama.
People have actually been playing very well together and many people have returned.
I don't think as many people are happy with the solo alt server as you think. Anyone can see the current trend is to sell
off things from 1a and buy Main things.

Another server is not needed.
Perhaps you people that have so much time on your hands to complain, whine and cause trouble should get out into the real world.
Get a job or go to school and interact with with real people to improve your social skills.

how about we all try to be satisfied with this nice free thing that you've been given?

[Gaddy]

The main server went to being nearly a non-pking server almost a year and a half ago.

The game is so large that it would take a lot of activity for players to still run into one another. Without knowing where to find people; you don't see much PKing anyway.
I do not see a real purpose for a PK main server; some people might enjoy a reset server, but that isn't worth doing, in my opinion.

[joanna]

if a PKing main server is what people wanted, then they woulda played main more before it became nopk. They didnt, so why would another pk/main server get anywhere?