20 replies to this topic

[Autek]

For all of the great improvements in the last few years with respect to classes, I can't help but be frustrated with the lack of anything neat introduced for the druid class.  Yes, of course I have a 'dog in the fight' so to speak since it's the class that I spend my time playing, but even removing any bias they could use improving. 

 

 

1) Mod Weapons - The damage mod weapons that were introduced are a VERY nice addition to the game, adding lower tier 'high end' weapons with unique applications.  I believe there should be some unique to the druid class because of the different way they're affected by base damage.  It's difficult, if not impossible to choose an adequate base damage that is appropriate for both druids and the other classes given that variable.  I tested the Moonsilver Stave extensively and just could not make it pencil to be worth the 1,000,000 gold price tag. Given armor absorbs of wolves, it would require either a higher mod (unlikely since they're all 1.5) or a higher base damage for a druid.

 

2) Stat Modifying Equipment - There have been a number of new drops added to existing bosses with some new stat modifications. To my knowledge the only item that was introduced for druids is the Earth Ward, which is utterly useless apart from it's more desirable description.  The absorb spell is useless 99.999% of the time logged into the game.  There have been great additions for other classes, and it would be nice to see something similar for druids.  Even if there were stat tradeoffs, like Living Tomb, armor reductions like Warrior Tunic, or negative absorb spell like Shadow Brace, it would still bring some versatility to the bland equipment options the class currently has.

 

3) Level 40 Item - Rumor has it that the level 40 item for druids is Gaea's Safeguard.  I'll be honest, with the 'improvements' that have been granted the class I was half expecting to see something as useless as an intelligence mod tacked onto it, so a strength mod has already exceeded my expectations.  That said, it still pales in comparison to Dragon Gauntlets (as do the other class' level 40 items from what I've seen). Items at level 40 should be truly legendary like the Dragon Gauntlets. Something like tacking on an additional armor point and a charisma mod in addition to the strength mod would get it up to par.  Similar boosts to the other level 40 items should happen as well to make them 'legendary'.

 

4) 8th Stamina - An end game 8th stamina at level 40 would hardly be game breaking for the class.  I think all classes should at least hit the 8th stamina for 5 stamina regeneration, even if it comes at level 40 and can't be taken advantage of for leveling purposes.  I mean, even the feeble mage gets 8 stamina points. As stricken by armor absorbs as druids are, it wouldn't exactly make them tanks when taken to a boss. It might get people interested in leveling the class past level 37 too, which seems to be the cutoff for those who consider the sunk costs of leveling a character.

 

 

I'm sure there are some more ranting points I'm blanking on right now, but please consider some additions for the druid class. . .

[Justice]

Well I have to chime in on this. Yes just like Alan a druid is my go-to class so of course I'm going to put in my 2 cents worth. I wont say the class is worthless because I do really enjoy playing druids. BUT I will say that they do lack compared to other classes. After watching all of the stamina and equipment updates for other classes druids are crippled. The nerf on cobalt crippled them. After watching fighters and paladins specifically get mod after mod it's almost sickening. With them being able to reach almost cleric spelled strength with modded equipment is crazy in my eyes. Druids get what? Earth Ward, Antlers, Bracelet of Wisdom, Wooden Stake, Arctic Crown, Black Cat and couple other equips? The mods even halfway decent are the wisdom mods which are quest items and are difficult to find. Also like Piddy said...druids are reliant and not all of us can afford Cobalt. So we are either forced to grind like crazy to buy a Cobalt or just settle with Spider Staff......Really? A Spider Staff? lol. Even questies rangers get 2 vamp bows! 17 base damage yet druids don't. Your telling me even 17 base damage vamp weapon is overpowered for druids? Stupid.

Now...onto the stamina issue. Other classes get atleast a 5 stamina regain while druid stay at the 4 stamina regain even at 40. No spell that gives them and extra regain like clerics and Holy Might. After playing on a 37 halfling druid there was no desire to level any further. Why? Well level 40 and still a 4 stamina regain is retarded and something has to give here.

Druids on multi alt are abit up to par and worth leveling due to the mods they get over there. Yes I know it's difficult to aquire but Paladins get Sword of Light and hit 200+ on multiple mobs, Corrosion Blade, few of the 1 mil weapons with several different mobs to train/gold on. Druids get a mod on wolves? Really? A mob that absorbs and dodges like nobodies business...even with gaea's up. Vampire mod? So we're stuck waiting for all the others who power level and gold there? So with strength mods druid get between 21-22 strength and another with the mod equipment at 40? LMAO...wow so over powered. /eyes.

That all being said...druids need SOMETHING! Something other than Wisdom/ Charisma mods because let's face it, when do we use Stormwrath? To pk? To kill the ktp into towns, For Christ sake what chances do they have going for pk's? Against a zerk? Guess what? 9 times out of 10 they'll get clicked. Fighter's were granted Critical Strike and with 10 stam and 6 stam regains druids stand no chance. If there were perks to leveling past 37 maybe the class would become more appealing. I almost feel bad for Alan being within 300mil xp from 40 and all he has to look forward to is a +1 strength mod. Having a 36 Druid myself I really have no desire to grind past 37. Druids need some help!!!!

[Apocalypto]

Druids are awesome pvm with cobalt, but I haven't really experienced the new mod weapons.. I personally dont see that as a concern with how easy it is to aquire a cobalt at this point... but the pvp aspect is an issue.. and I have always felt the stamina should be +1. merr.

[Adultery]

8 stam for a druid would be awesome. would make all that work to 40 worth it.

 

my vote goes to fixing druids. 

[Autek]

I wouldn't hold the fact that they finally become playable when you manage to save 10m gold against them. . . Just ask some of the new players why none of them play druids. Or heck, even some of the veterans who haven't purchased a cobalt.

 

I can't comment on the PvP needs, but what I've read here makes sense.

[Tietsu]

Alan covered this pretty well, so it is hard to add any input.  Allow me to play the devil's advocate on a couple of points, though.

 

Modified Weapons:  I had this conversation maybe a week ago and this is purely a matter of opinion.  My issue is not with the base damage of the training weapons.  Look at a Fighter, or Paladin; Royal Sword, Orcsbane and Ballista.  The Base Damage on them are fairly low (25) compared to their endgame achievables (4 to 5 BD). Trident at 21 and Stave at 20 it is close to the same in difference (3 to 4 BD) to the current end-game Druid weapon.  My suggestion would be to add a new end-game weapon for them to use that doesn't have such a huge armor penalty for the negligible dexterity gain, when there are more important stats, such as wisdom or strength.

 

Stat Mods:  Alright, I want to agree with this because there is a severe lack in alternative equipment.  Werewolf Hide Tunic, Carapace and Dragon Skin Armor are exactly the same.  Why is this?  Makes no sense to me whatsoever.  Why in god's name is a shield so similar to Shield of Faith (a shield you can get solo at level 20) their end-game?  I love the concept of spell absorb as much as the next guy, but this isn't a primary concern for any body.  As of  yet, any way.

 

Legendary + 8th Stamina:  I am in the middle here.  I believe I heard the earlier gains in stamina for Druids were the reasoning for taking away the 8th at level 40.  An 8th stam would not make them as over-powered as Fighters or Beserkers PvM or PvP.  There are three reasons for using a level 40 character.  PvP, Farming, Bossing.  I see no immediate concern for any of those reasons.  A Druid's versatility is unmatched with nourish, camouflage, cleanse.  I do not see a huge need to give them 8 stamina, yet neither do I see an overwhelming reason not to give them 8 stamina.  Sorely needed stat modified armor and weapons should be added before we consider where their stamina needs to be.

 

Finally, something that I believe needs to be touched on.  There are benefits for most Grandmaster classes, but I'm not sure where a Ranger and Druid stand on obtainable special-need potions.  I would like to see an addition of (no cost) foraging area(s) that still requires a guild ring and yields special elixirs that could possibly cure 150 HP, 250 MP and removes status ailment (i.e. poison and drunkness).  Now that may be a bit over-reaching, but perhaps a chance to find the 150 HP pot, 250 MP crystal separately.

Edited by Tietsu, 05 July 2014 - 04:16 PM.

[Tietsu]

Piddy brought up a couple good suggestions, but we are not looking to overhaul the spells, are we?  I would completely agree with the changing of spell costs and healing increases, but I believe an 8th stam for Druids would be taken off the table.

[Autek]

The 8th stamina would in my opinion would be an easy addition to add drive to level past level 37, and not at a game breaking expense. The real gain from stamina regeneration is for gaining experience, at at level 40 that is really no longer needed.  It would just be a nice boost for bossing really.  I too heard the reasoning was something to do with earlier level stamina gains. . . That is probably the worst justification I've heard of. Since the class is shafted early on, so they should continue to get the shaft to the end. . . ?  The progression of stamina is hardly a rule to follow, and it doesn't appear it was even used as a guideline for other classes.  Look at mages, they are the slowest class to get their second and third stamina, but their gains get accelerated from there.  Or rangers, who have the largest gap between stamina gains from 20-29, but then hugely accelerate, getting two more stamina in 5 levels - faster than any other class.  Bottom line is the progression of stamina is hardly linear, and the justification of slow earlier stamina gains for druids doesn't hold any water in my book since it didn't stop other classes.

 

The foraging idea is cool. A private training area, and one that's lost it's luster now that wolf pelts aren't in demand even close to what they were, isn't anything special. A forage in there for something along the lines of what was mentioned, even if lesser quality than the other class' items would be neat. I think rather than foraging the items themselves though, it would be better to forage components to an alchemy recipe to make them.  That way there is still a cost associated with obtaining them, similarly to the elders.

[Tietsu]

In short, yes 8 stam would be an excellent crutch until the equipment requests are sorted out.  This would at least sort Autek out in-game and I am almost positive the only reason he would use his druid is to boss on and extra stam has always been a huge issue with accomplishing the healing bosses.  It's not like it would help him to train...  So, why not.

 

I would support a temporary stamina increase.

[Autek]

Why temporary though? What would be so game breaking about it that it shouldn't be done?

 

EDIT: I assume the only reason would be that you believe staff would only do one or the other, equipment or stamina? Both together wouldn't hurt anything.

Edited by Autek, 05 July 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[Tietsu]

What is it Staff use to say..?  There has to be a very good reason for them to make a change.  I have not seen groundbreaking information that would warrant a change.  Do I believe it can be proven that a Druid deserves 8 stamina at 40?  Yes, absolutely.  If you were to work out the math to show the damage amplification with Gaea's (and without) compared to other class damage on certain bosses, I would probably be fully onboard.  But as I see it right now, the only reason to update the stamina for a Druid at 40 would be to boss PvM-wise.  PvP is another story, as Druids do have a major advantage (with 7 stam) over a few other classes, yet have a huge weakness against others.  More stamina for bosses is always going to be desirable.  But I simply do not have the numbers in front of me to do the calculations.  Next time you go on a boss run, ask people to log their damage and compare your 4 stam damage to their 5 or 6.

 

 

And this is only my opinion.  I am not saying I am right.  I would like to see the math done.  You're good at that and have a better chance than I do to go on bosses.  Else-wise I would try to help get my Druid 8 stamina in the next couple levels as well.

Edited by Tietsu, 05 July 2014 - 06:53 PM.

[Autek]

I'd point to myself being the only druid to level past 37, apart from Piddy who is now trying to sell his druid he bought and leveled to 38. I guess I'd settle for a full lineup of bigger and badder stat mod equipment at level 40, but without it being level 40 requirement, there is no incentive to go clear to 40.  Who is going to pay 10ish million gold to level from 37-40 (assuming they farm all of their items as opposed to buying any of them) for the opportunity to lay an additional 1m gold down for +1 str?  There is just flat out not enough incentive to level to 40 for druids.  25% more damage per round via the stamina increase would go a long ways to incentivize leveling. 

 

I don't think there is really any data mining necessary to see the difference in damage, just add 25% to a typical full round's damage and you've got it. The 8th stamina is about providing the incentive to level, though it still won't break the game since it won't help to level any further. I would think at best it would make a boss that needs something like 10 players to do only require 9, and even if that's the case is that such a bad thing when you've achieved the ultimate goal of this game?

 

Again, I can't speak to the PvP side of things, but I'm sure that Piddy could break that down.  He's done all kinds of testing, and it doesn't sound to me like they have the upper hand on anything.

 

And with all this stamina talk, I do believe clerics should get an 8th stamina at level 40 too (though they can achieve 5 stam regeneration as it is) as a capstone to becoming legendary, but I don't want to get this thread going sideways.

 

EDIT: And the only reason I plan to level Autek to 40 is to be able to say that I've done it on both servers, and would be the first person to achieve the feat of leveling a druid to 40 on either server, let alone both.

Edited by Autek, 05 July 2014 - 07:36 PM.

[Justice]

If mages get 8 stamina and arent considered over powered then what makes a druid with 8 stamina over powered?....I mean really? A 8 stamina mage would be crazy......

I just don't see the logic in that.

[Tietsu]

I am on board.

[Justice]

I know if druids had 5 stamina regain at 40 then I'd put in the time more and grind harder. Poor Alan...dood grinds harder on a druid than anyone ever will and all he has to look forward to is +1 strength. Oh and just to say he 40'd a druid on both multi and 1 alt. Which GG Alan!

It's been stated already but all druids need to be up to par with other classes is better equipment options, reduced spell cost and another stamina. I bet the few new druid players already approaching 37-38 maybe they will grind harder to reap the rewards. FFS mages get 8 stamina...

[alo113]

All the staff input on this topic is making me dizzy. Where are the advisors? Surprised this wasn't locked 3 piddy posts ago.

Anyway, to add something valid to the post, I used to own a lvl 37 halfling druid. It was very fun and had many uses; it was much more versatile than my fighter. However, I completely agree that looking forward to +1 strength and +/- 60 hp & mana does not really justify spending between 7 and 14 mil(depending on which leveling system you use) and countless hours training. That is the reason why I no longer own one, I simply couldn't justify spending the resources for +1 strength.

I personally thing Fighter is right where it needs to be in regards to being a true Legend. Thieves get shafted: what Legendary thief should only move 8 squares and run out of stamina without needing 3-4 constitution mods. It should be a no brainer that they can run unlimited once you spend upwards of 2,000 hours training one to 40. I feel similarly about rangers, why even level past 38? Spend 7-10 mil gold for +1 strength? Legendary characters DESERVE to be "overpowered" because someone put the time in to level that character above and beyond powerful.

Props to Alan; if Druids receive any benefit from this discussion, he truly deserves it, simply for being one of the only people leveling to a Druid to Legend just for the sake of doing it.

I seriously hope they do alter Legendary Druids for the better.

[Justice]

I'm suprised...no staff comments? No moderator comments? Woot I only need to level to 37 now..../eyes.

[Justice]

Oh and I'm just curious...when the stamina changes took place why did mages get an 8th stamina and not druids? What was the reason? What was the logic in that? Please staff...give us some sort of feedback here.

[Autek]

The way I understood it was druids did initially have an 8th stamina at level 40, but they looked back at the stamina progression pre level 30 and decided it was too much?  That argument is crap, see post #11, first paragraph. 

 

The 8th stamina to me would be a no brainer. From there, a boost to the level 40 item (and all of the others that are shameful) would be the next easiest and reasonable thing to do.  After that some cool boss drops or even shop bought items.  It's just frustrating that of all the awesome new additions lately the druid class has been left behind to collect dust. What I speak of wouldn't be game breaking at all, just add some life to the class and purpose to advance past level 37.

[Justice]

Lol I'm actually frustrated right now...

WTF...why play a druid? I got nourish I spose. Well if anyone needs a refresh I'll be at the north vault! lol

[Element]

As a returning player who is basically a noob I have a interesting viewpoint of the game. First off there's no way I would touch a Druid (if I could even roll one haha) Everything I've heard says I need a 10million gold item to play the class.

While it sounds like the Druid has some balance issues lets not kid anyone the whole game has balance issues. The game itself is built for Alts and although it's an online game not everyone has clannies or friends so it makes it hard to get started with any class.

Don't get me wrong this game was really great at one point when it was getting updates and there were players but I just don't see it ever getting a new player again (besides returning players). The game is built for Alts, extreme rich people who have been playing since the start or bots. :/

I understand there's limited staff and jlh doesn't code so nothing on them just saying how I see it as a newish player.