324 replies to this topic

[afireinside]

i think its funny how im the only preson mec mentions by names in his little summary

everybody just stop no ones convincing anybody and we are all just getting mad
just stick to your own buisness and brush everything off

[jurian]

or kill mec and this will be over too

[Lich]

Agreed

[Mec]

Gay marriages: It doesn't concern you at all when two people of the same sex get married, it doesn't hurt you, it won't affect YOUR life in any way shape or form. How can you base OTHER people's life on YOUR religion? Those people have rights, the same as yours, and if they truly love each other I see no reason why they can't get married. It won't happen in your church, it will happen in a courthouse. I never thought of you as a bigot Sharon, don't prove me wrong.

Abortions: No woman in her right mind will look at an abortion as a form of birth control. Once again, it doesn't affect YOU personally. You do not know about the situation the woman is in, how she got pregnant, what risks the pregnancy can cause. If YOU choose for YOURSELF not to have abortions, that is fine, but don't try to force your beliefs upon others.

Afireinside, I mentioned only you because you are the only person here that (to my knowledge) is gay.

I do believe that if a woman is married and is pregnant from her husband he should have a say in it, however: If a pregnancy causes serious health risks for a woman, I believe she should have the right to have the pregnancy terminated. Who says that a fetus's life is more precious than that of the woman carrying it? Shouldn't she be allowed to stop risk to her life?

I also believe that a rape victim should be allowed to have an abortion. As discussed before, it is NOT considered life until after the first trimester. Unless you have been in that particular situation, do not judge others. I have been, and I can tell you, I would have rather taken my own life than to carry out the child of the person who put me through the most miserable time ever.

Oh, and doesn't the bible say that those without faults should throw the first stone? Do not jude others lest you want to be judged. Do not bring your religion into this, none of us except Mec do. Freedom of religion is a wonderful thing, and I belive in that. And that includes laws etc not being based on religon.

Alright: This is pathetic.

On Gay Marriage.

I've already said this: It DOES hurt us.

In some Native American civilizations, there was a very messy thing called human sacrifice, sometimes done during something known as the 'sun dance'. This was wrong and was stopped. Freedom of religion? No. If this had kept up, people would have thought "Oh! I can do whatever I want if I label it religion!".

Gay marriges are disgusting, unnatural, and harmful (bad influence). If people are allowed to have gay marriges because it doesn't 'hurt' anyone else, marijuana should be legalized, so should underaged drinking and smoking.

People aren't meant to be gay. Face it! In fact, people aren't even gay, they 'say' they are simply because they can get away with it! Yes, these people do have rights, they just don't have the right to be married because that's not what marriage is. And they DON'T 'truly love eachother'. They might think so, but what they really love is the concept of being gay. They say that "they are gay, they can't help it". This really is an excuse, a rationalization, for what they want to do. I've said this before, and it just doesn't sink in! You are responsible for your actions! When I was in elementary school, teachers had little poster thingies saying things like this. One teacher (who I hate with a passion, by the way), kept saying "life's about choices!", and this is totally true! Somehow, I don't think this got pounded into the miserable excuses of heads of some gay people. They just can't do something that other people can't do either. They're not 'born that way'! Them saying that in my book is like someone saying "I was born to smoke pot!" or "I was born to commit rape!" or, more closely "I was born to have sex with animals!". This is utterly disgusting!

Squee: You can't help being vietnamese, but one can help being gay.


On Abortions:

Abortion? Perhaps it doesn't affect me personally, I doubt it really does! Let's look back in history again, this time back to segregation and the civil war. Some white people were really horrible to black people. Many white people were against this and protested, and this is what helped get the civil war running to free the slaves. Did it affect the white people at all? No. But they did right thing! It would have been evil and wrong to not have done it*. This kind of brings up gay marriage again. Gay people are not forced to do things they don't want to. Now, white people didn't view blacks to have the same rights as they do, because they were different. Today, people don't believe unborn babies to have the same right as they do, because they are different. It's all about definition. They are PEOPLE! You wouldn't call them "unborn kitties", or "unborn kangaroos", or even "unborn rocks". You might call them "unborn people", though! THEY ARE PEOPLE AND HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TO LIFE YOU DO!

Rape cases do not matter at all! If I got raped (not likely), could I just kill you? No. Rape does not justify murder. Rape does not justify abortion. In fact, nothing justifies abortion. The child is completely, totally, and without question innocent. If you kill an innocent person, that's murder, and you should be put to death. Enough said.


Now, this amuses me:

How can you base OTHER people's life on YOUR religion?

The first thing I'd like to point out is that you are pro-abortion and saying this. How can one who aborts base a child's life on THEIR COMFORT???

Congressmen base other's lives on their beliefs. SUPREME COURT JUSTICES do so too! Without this, there would be NO laws, and total anarchy! But, if we did it another way, we could be a totalitarian government and base all our laws and such off our government beliefs. Soooo, we compromise and end up with democracy.

In democracy, MAJORITY RULES, and I'd like to remind you that people who haven't been born yet are by FAR the majority.

On Kerry:

Kerry's medals were not justly earned. Kerry is a selfish little rich spoiled brat. Kerry has never said anything without saying the opposite too. The media is covering for Kerry. Kerry is not the person to choose for president of the United States!

I imagine some of you people are thinking "anybody but Bush"! Is Kerry any better? No, he's worse! I was viewing the big protest in New York the other day and they were singing "blah blah.. . . . .hey hey bey! buuu-uush lies!". So does Kerry, Kerry lies more frequently too ;-). He's lies about his medals, he's lied about where he was when (laughs at Kerry 'remembers' that he was on a secret mission on vietnam during Christmas and they shot at him as 'christmas celebration', and later says something line "maybe it was in january". Christmas celebrations in January? Kerry is worse than Bush.

On Religion:

I agree, freedom of religion is a wonderful thing. And that should mean that you are free to bring your religion into your job, free to bring your religion into your actions and whatever.

Yes the bible does say that those without faults should cast the first stone. But! If you take this out of context the meaning can be different than what it was meant. Let's look at the context:

A woman commits adultery, they're about to stone her. Jesus comes along and says, "you have problems too, quit it!".

Now, I don't think after that that this woman is likely to commit adultery again. Why do you jail people? To prevent them from doing it again! IF you don't do something, people will just keep doing it again and again!


* Now, I know some of you people don't believe in right and wrong and evil. Think of it as moral and immoral, only to a higher degree. Or perhaps helpful and harmful.


Some notes:

There is a difference from what you are and what you do. Doing things makes you what you are and gay people are gay because of what they do.

I would like a few questions to be answered also.

How come there is this dramatic increase of gay people all of this sudden? (It is NOT because they're coming out into the open.)
How come there are FEW other animals than humans that are gay, and many humans are?
How come we should kill me? This also shows how immoral you people are. Why not kill you instead.

This post should NOT die until you ignorant people on the other side admit that they are wrong, that they should go back to elementary school and look at the posters, and be more considerate of unborn babies.

[Night_Angel]

Lich, thank you. the problem with me leaving religion out is that its the reason have the opinion i do. if i didnt have my religious beliefs then my views would probibly have a very diferent idea on how things are. i understand all of your views on not trying to convince based on religion. everyone has the right to have thier own religious beliefs.

MEC
as a person with some of the same religious beliefs as you i give you a cheer for posting your views and spreading the word
BUT
you should know that you trying to shove your beliefs down other peoples throtes and being a close minded "Bible Thumper" is not the way to debate a topic. i understand you feeling so strongly on the topic. but you have to understand that this thread is to discuss each others opinions and thoughts i didnt see anywhere where it said "I WILL MAKE YOU THINK MY WAY AND THAT IS ALL" you are so busy trying to change everyones beliefs and condem them for their beliefs that you have basically put yourself in a "im useless in debait" catigory. this is a discussion not a ill change you mind if i keep repeating and your wrong for not seeing things my way. you believe what you believe and they believe what they believe thats the way the world works dear. lay off.

[Mec]

Lich, thank you. the problem with me leaving religion out is that its the reason have the opinion i do. if i didnt have my religious beliefs then my views would probibly have a very diferent idea on how things are. i understand all of your views on not trying to convince based on religion. everyone has the right to have thier own religious beliefs.

MEC
as a person with some of the same religious beliefs as you i give you a cheer for posting your views and spreading the word
BUT
you should know that you trying to shove your beliefs down other peoples throtes and being a close minded "Bible Thumper" is not the way to debate a topic. i understand you feeling so strongly on the topic. but you have to understand that this thread is to discuss each others opinions and thoughts i didnt see anywhere where it said "I WILL MAKE YOU THINK MY WAY AND THAT IS ALL" you are so busy trying to change everyones beliefs and condem them for their beliefs that you have basically put yourself in a "im useless in debait" catigory. this is a discussion not a ill change you mind if i keep repeating and your wrong for not seeing things my way. you believe what you believe and they believe what they believe thats the way the world works dear. lay off.

I haven't tried to shove any of my beliefs down anybody's throat!
Yes, my words do express my beliefs! Everybody's words do!

[Lady_Maha]

[quote name='Mec' date='Aug 30 2004, 10:43 PM']
Afireinside, I mentioned only you because you are the only person here that (to my knowledge) is gay.
[/quote]

Wrong. I am bisexual, meaning I enjoy loving both opposite AND same sex relationships.

[quote]On Gay Marriage.

I've already said this: It DOES hurt us.[/quote]

Yes, YOU have said that over and over again, yet you have not once PROVEN that it does. Why not? Because you are wrong!

[quote]In some Native American civilizations, there was a very messy thing called human sacrifice, sometimes done during something known as the 'sun dance'.  This was wrong and was stopped. Freedom of religion? No. If this had kept up, people would have thought "Oh!  I can do whatever I want if I label it religion!".[/quote]

[quote]I agree, freedom of religion is a wonderful thing.  And that should mean that you are free to bring your religion into your job, free to bring your religion into your actions and whatever.[/quote]

Do you see how you contradict yourself? What are you trying to tell us here, freedom of religion as long as it's YOUR religion?

[quote]Gay marriges are disgusting, unnatural, and harmful (bad influence). If people are allowed to have gay marriges because it doesn't 'hurt' anyone else, marijuana should be legalized, so should underaged drinking and smoking.[/quote]

They are disgusting to YOU, not to the people who live them. YOu do not have to be in bed with them. They are NOT unnatural, as I mentioned before, homosexuality has been around since the beginning of mankind, and I have seen animals behave in homosexual ways before. They are NOT harmful, because people are not influenced into being homosexual, they either are, or aren't.

You can't compare a choice (smoking marijuana, which I believe SHOULD be legalized as it is in the Netherlands already) to something you do not decide but are born with.

[quote]People aren't meant to be gay. Face it! In fact, people aren't even gay, they 'say' they are simply because they can get away with it! Yes, these people do have rights, they just don't have the right to be married because that's not what marriage is.  And they DON'T 'truly love eachother'. They might think so, but what they really love is the concept of being gay. They say that "they are gay, they can't help it".  This really is an excuse, a rationalization, for what they want to do. I've said this before, and it just doesn't sink in! You are responsible for your actions! When I was in elementary school, teachers had little poster thingies saying things like this. One teacher (who I hate with a passion, by the way), kept saying "life's about choices!", and this is totally true! Somehow, I don't think this got pounded into the miserable excuses of heads of some gay people. They just can't do something that other people can't do either. They're not 'born that way'! Them saying that in my book is like someone saying "I was born to smoke pot!" or "I was born to commit rape!" or, more closely "I was born to have sex with animals!". This is utterly disgusting![/quote]

Wrong again Mec, no gay person is gay because it's hip to be gay. They are gay because that is what nature made them, just like nature made you male. They DO know what marriage is, but you don't. Marriage is two people promising each other to be there for each other in good and bad times, to love and support each other. Gay people can do that just as well as heterosexuals.

Once again you prove yoru immaturity by comparing something a person is born into with a wilful act. Did you choose to be male or female? Did you choose to be born white or black? You choose to be christian, I choose to be Taoist, but I do not choose to be bisexual, I just AM. And I refuse to change who I am for people like you who happen to find it disgusting.

[quote]On Abortions:

Abortion? Perhaps it doesn't affect me personally, I doubt it really does! Let's look back in history again, this time back to segregation and the civil war. Some white people were really horrible to black people. Many white people were against this and protested, and this is what helped get the civil war running to free the slaves. Did it affect the white people at all? No.  But they did right thing! It would have been evil and wrong to not have done it*. This kind of brings up gay marriage again. Gay people are not forced to do things they don't want to. Now, white people didn't view blacks to have the same rights as they do, because they were different. Today, people don't believe unborn babies to have the same right as they do, because they are different. It's all about definition. They are PEOPLE!  You wouldn't call them "unborn kitties", or "unborn kangaroos", or even "unborn rocks".  You might call them "unborn people", though! THEY ARE PEOPLE AND HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TO LIFE YOU DO![/quote]

After deciphering your babble I have come to the conclusion tht you have not read my post at all. Do you value foetus' life over that of an already existing human being? Sometimes termination of pregnancy is the only way to ensure a woman's life. Who are you to decide who lives and who doesn't? Who are you to decide whn life begins and ends? Medically life begins AFTER the first trimester. In a wanted pregnancy, one that was created through an act of love, emotion might dictate that life begins the moment the egg is fertilized, however, remind yourself daily that when eating your breakfast, more than likely you are eating an abortion. An egg that mother hen decided not to sit on.

Now bringing the whole civil war concept as an explanation of why gay marriages and abortions should be illegal is about as far fetched as asking a cow to lay eggs.

[quote]Rape cases do not matter at all! If I got raped (not likely), could I just kill you? No. Rape does not justify murder. Rape does not justify abortion. In fact, nothing justifies abortion. The child is completely, totally, and without question innocent.  If you kill an innocent person, that's murder, and you should be put to death. Enough said.[/quote]

Rape cases DO matter. As I said before, you haven't been raped, so do not comment on something that you do not know about. Your deafness amazes me. We have give you medical proof and definitions of when a fertilized egg turns into a baby, ad the legal abortion period (first trimester) does NOT qualify as a living baby. You amaze me most by your last statement about having to be put to death for having an abortion. Do as I say but don't do as I do?

[quote]Now, this amuses me: [quote=Lady_Maha]How can you base OTHER people's life on YOUR religion?[/quote] The first thing I'd like to point out is that you are pro-abortion and saying this. How can one who aborts base a child's life on THEIR COMFORT???[/quote]

I am glad I amuse you, you simply disgust me with your bigotry. I am not completely pro abortion, as you could have read in my previous posts if you had bothered or been capable. Secondly I would like to pooint out that abortion has NOTHING to do with comfort, since I can assure you it is anything but comfortable. The fetus' existence, not the child's life, is aborted to save a life, mentally or physically.

[quote]Congressmen base other's lives on their beliefs. SUPREME COURT JUSTICES do so too! Without this, there would be NO laws, and total anarchy! But, if we did it another way, we could be a totalitarian government and base all our laws and such off our government beliefs.  Soooo, we compromise and end up with democracy.[/quote]

I don't live in your country, so don't assume your legal system affects me. I don't even find it well thought through. I live in a democracy where supreme court decisions are based on LAWS not religion. And guess what, no anarchy!

[quote]In democracy, MAJORITY RULES, and I'd like to remind you that people who haven't been born yet are by FAR the majority.[/quote]

In a democracy you or anyone your age as well as unborn children as you keep naming them, do not rule anything. Legal voting age where I am is 18. Sorry, yo lost. I get to vote, you don't.

Since I don't live in your country I won't comment on your politics except the little statement that I am glad I don't live there anymore.


[quote]Yes the bible does say that those without faults should cast the first stone.  But! If you take this out of context the meaning can be different than what it was meant.  Let's look at the context:

A woman commits adultery, they're about to stone her.  Jesus comes along and says, "you have problems too, quit it!".

Now, I don't think after that that this woman is likely to commit adultery again. Why do you jail people?  To prevent them from doing it again!  IF you don't do something, people will just keep doing it again and again![/quote]

Shall we get into a bible discussion? I know what it says... this is 13 years of catholic school speaking. I chose to become Taoist for a reason.

The particular situation I mentioned was NOT meant as scare tactics to threaten the woman, Jesus reminded people that nobody is without faults and that there is someone higher up who has the right to judge, and only THAT one has that right.

Now I will not go into details since I have left the christian part of my life behind me a while ago, but I will tell you that unlike you I have a total of 15 years of intensive bible study on my back, so do not attempt to tell me how to interpret that book.

[quote]* Now, I know some of you people don't believe in right and wrong and evil. Think of it as moral and immoral, only to a higher degree. Or perhaps helpful and harmful.[/quote]

Trust me when I tell you that most of us DO belive in right and wrong, moral and immoral, we just have a different set of values than you, which doesn't make our beliefs any less good than yours.

[quote]Some notes:

There is a difference from what you are and what you do. Doing things makes you what you are and gay people are gay because of what they do.[/quote]

Gay people are gay people because of how they are born. Scientists are actually working on a gene that they think is responsible for homosexuality. If proven right, you can top your creator by designign your own non-gay baby soon, won't that make you happy?

[quote]I would like a few questions to be answered also.

How come there is this dramatic increase of gay people all of this sudden? (It is NOT because they're coming out into the open.)
How come there are FEW other animals than humans that are gay, and many humans are?
How come we should kill me? This also shows how immoral you people are.  Why not kill you instead.

This post should NOT die until you ignorant people on the other side admit that they are wrong, that they should go back to elementary school and look at the posters, and be more considerate of unborn babies.[/quote]


Answer: The increase is due to the fact that homosexuals now don't have to fear for their lives anymore when coming out of the closet. It is in fact not an increase in homosexuals but an increase in those who admit to being homosexual. The percentage of homosexuals has always been about the same, just not that of homosexuals who freely admit to being homosexual.

Answer: There are more homosexual animals than you'd think. I have seen more male dogs hump other male dogs than I have sen homosexual men in my life.

I don't think we should kill you, we should just beat some common sense into your head, maybe combined with the ability to read before typing.

The only IGNORANT person on this post is you Mec, and this post will not die simply because you refuse to preach what you are fed without thinking about it yourself.

Have a nice day in church.

Edited by Lady_Maha, 30 August 2004 - 10:46 PM.

[afireinside]

mec be gay be what you arent come on everyone hates you because of what you are so just be gay.
doesnt feel good does it?
imagine that everyday
mec PROVE do i need to define that?PROVE that you choose to be gay cmon do it i dare you. no opinions dont count.

i just really think its hilarious how straight people say all this stuff about whats its like to be gay and how it a(mecs favorite word) "rationalization" is that your word of the day? trying to say big things so people dont think you are 12?
you havent even gone through puberty.

[Mec]

[quote name='Lady_Maha' date='Aug 30 2004, 05:41 PM'] [quote name='Mec' date='Aug 30 2004, 10:43 PM']
Afireinside, I mentioned only you because you are the only person here that (to my knowledge) is gay.
[/quote]

Wrong. I am bisexual, meaning I enjoy loving both opposite AND same sex relationships.

[quote]On Gay Marriage.

I've already said this: It DOES hurt us.[/quote]

Yes, YOU have said that over and over again, yet you have not once PROVEN that it does. Why not? Because you are wrong!

[quote]In some Native American civilizations, there was a very messy thing called human sacrifice, sometimes done during something known as the 'sun dance'.  This was wrong and was stopped. Freedom of religion? No. If this had kept up, people would have thought "Oh!  I can do whatever I want if I label it religion!".[/quote]

[quote]I agree, freedom of religion is a wonderful thing.  And that should mean that you are free to bring your religion into your job, free to bring your religion into your actions and whatever.[/quote]

Do you see how you contradict yourself? What are you trying to tell us here, freedom of religion as long as it's YOUR religion?

[quote]Gay marriges are disgusting, unnatural, and harmful (bad influence). If people are allowed to have gay marriges because it doesn't 'hurt' anyone else, marijuana should be legalized, so should underaged drinking and smoking.[/quote]

They are disgusting to YOU, not to the people who live them. YOu do not have to be in bed with them. They are NOT unnatural, as I mentioned before, homosexuality has been around since the beginning of mankind, and I have seen animals behave in homosexual ways before. They are NOT harmful, because people are not influenced into being homosexual, they either are, or aren't.

You can't compare a choice (smoking marijuana, which I believe SHOULD be legalized as it is in the Netherlands already) to something you do not decide but are born with.

[quote]People aren't meant to be gay. Face it! In fact, people aren't even gay, they 'say' they are simply because they can get away with it! Yes, these people do have rights, they just don't have the right to be married because that's not what marriage is.  And they DON'T 'truly love eachother'. They might think so, but what they really love is the concept of being gay. They say that "they are gay, they can't help it".  This really is an excuse, a rationalization, for what they want to do. I've said this before, and it just doesn't sink in! You are responsible for your actions! When I was in elementary school, teachers had little poster thingies saying things like this. One teacher (who I hate with a passion, by the way), kept saying "life's about choices!", and this is totally true! Somehow, I don't think this got pounded into the miserable excuses of heads of some gay people. They just can't do something that other people can't do either. They're not 'born that way'! Them saying that in my book is like someone saying "I was born to smoke pot!" or "I was born to commit rape!" or, more closely "I was born to have sex with animals!". This is utterly disgusting![/quote]

Wrong again Mec, no gay person is gay because it's hip to be gay. They are gay because that is what nature made them, just like nature made you male. They DO know what marriage is, but you don't. Marriage is two people promising each other to be there for each other in good and bad times, to love and support each other. Gay people can do that just as well as heterosexuals.

Once again you prove yoru immaturity by comparing something a person is born into with a wilful act. Did you choose to be male or female? Did you choose to be born white or black? You choose to be christian, I choose to be Taoist, but I do not choose to be bisexual, I just AM. And I refuse to change who I am for people like you who happen to find it disgusting.

[quote]On Abortions:

Abortion? Perhaps it doesn't affect me personally, I doubt it really does! Let's look back in history again, this time back to segregation and the civil war. Some white people were really horrible to black people. Many white people were against this and protested, and this is what helped get the civil war running to free the slaves. Did it affect the white people at all? No.  But they did right thing! It would have been evil and wrong to not have done it*. This kind of brings up gay marriage again. Gay people are not forced to do things they don't want to. Now, white people didn't view blacks to have the same rights as they do, because they were different. Today, people don't believe unborn babies to have the same right as they do, because they are different. It's all about definition. They are PEOPLE!  You wouldn't call them "unborn kitties", or "unborn kangaroos", or even "unborn rocks".  You might call them "unborn people", though! THEY ARE PEOPLE AND HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TO LIFE YOU DO![/quote]

After deciphering your babble I have come to the conclusion tht you have not read my post at all. Do you value foetus' life over that of an already existing human being? Sometimes termination of pregnancy is the only way to ensure a woman's life. Who are you to decide who lives and who doesn't? Who are you to decide whn life begins and ends? Medically life begins AFTER the first trimester. In a wanted pregnancy, one that was created through an act of love, emotion might dictate that life begins the moment the egg is fertilized, however, remind yourself daily that when eating your breakfast, more than likely you are eating an abortion. An egg that mother hen decided not to sit on.

Now bringing the whole civil war concept as an explanation of why gay marriages and abortions should be illegal is about as far fetched as asking a cow to lay eggs.

[quote]Rape cases do not matter at all! If I got raped (not likely), could I just kill you? No. Rape does not justify murder. Rape does not justify abortion. In fact, nothing justifies abortion. The child is completely, totally, and without question innocent.  If you kill an innocent person, that's murder, and you should be put to death. Enough said.[/quote]

Rape cases DO matter. As I said before, you haven't been raped, so do not comment on something that you do not know about. Your deafness amazes me. We have give you medical proof and definitions of when a fertilized egg turns into a baby, ad the legal abortion period (first trimester) does NOT qualify as a living baby. You amaze me most by your last statement about having to be put to death for having an abortion. Do as I say but don't do as I do?

[quote]Now, this amuses me: [quote=Lady_Maha]How can you base OTHER people's life on YOUR religion?[/quote] The first thing I'd like to point out is that you are pro-abortion and saying this. How can one who aborts base a child's life on THEIR COMFORT???[/quote]

I am glad I amuse you, you simply disgust me with your bigotry. I am not completely pro abortion, as you could have read in my previous posts if you had bothered or been capable. Secondly I would like to pooint out that abortion has NOTHING to do with comfort, since I can assure you it is anything but comfortable. The fetus' existence, not the child's life, is aborted to save a life, mentally or physically.

[quote]Congressmen base other's lives on their beliefs. SUPREME COURT JUSTICES do so too! Without this, there would be NO laws, and total anarchy! But, if we did it another way, we could be a totalitarian government and base all our laws and such off our government beliefs.  Soooo, we compromise and end up with democracy.[/quote]

I don't live in your country, so don't assume your legal system affects me. I don't even find it well thought through. I live in a democracy where supreme court decisions are based on LAWS not religion. And guess what, no anarchy!

[quote]In democracy, MAJORITY RULES, and I'd like to remind you that people who haven't been born yet are by FAR the majority.[/quote]

In a democracy you or anyone your age as well as unborn children as you keep naming them, do not rule anything. Legal voting age where I am is 18. Sorry, yo lost. I get to vote, you don't.

Since I don't live in your country I won't comment on your politics except the little statement that I am glad I don't live there anymore.


[quote]Yes the bible does say that those without faults should cast the first stone.  But! If you take this out of context the meaning can be different than what it was meant.  Let's look at the context:

A woman commits adultery, they're about to stone her.  Jesus comes along and says, "you have problems too, quit it!".

Now, I don't think after that that this woman is likely to commit adultery again. Why do you jail people?  To prevent them from doing it again!  IF you don't do something, people will just keep doing it again and again![/quote]

Shall we get into a bible discussion? I know what it says... this is 13 years of catholic school speaking. I chose to become Taoist for a reason.

The particular situation I mentioned was NOT meant as scare tactics to threaten the woman, Jesus reminded people that nobody is without faults and that there is someone higher up who has the right to judge, and only THAT one has that right.

Now I will not go into details since I have left the christian part of my life behind me a while ago, but I will tell you that unlike you I have a total of 15 years of intensive bible study on my back, so do not attempt to tell me how to interpret that book.

[quote]* Now, I know some of you people don't believe in right and wrong and evil. Think of it as moral and immoral, only to a higher degree. Or perhaps helpful and harmful.[/quote]

Trust me when I tell you that most of us DO belive in right and wrong, moral and immoral, we just have a different set of values than you, which doesn't make our beliefs any less good than yours.

[quote]Some notes:

There is a difference from what you are and what you do. Doing things makes you what you are and gay people are gay because of what they do.[/quote]

Gay people are gay people because of how they are born. Scientists are actually working on a gene that they think is responsible for homosexuality. If proven right, you can top your creator by designign your own non-gay baby soon, won't that make you happy?

[quote]I would like a few questions to be answered also.

How come there is this dramatic increase of gay people all of this sudden? (It is NOT because they're coming out into the open.)
How come there are FEW other animals than humans that are gay, and many humans are?
How come we should kill me? This also shows how immoral you people are.  Why not kill you instead.

This post should NOT die until you ignorant people on the other side admit that they are wrong, that they should go back to elementary school and look at the posters, and be more considerate of unborn babies.[/quote]


Answer: The increase is due to the fact that homosexuals now don't have to fear for their lives anymore when coming out of the closet. It is in fact not an increase in homosexuals but an increase in those who admit to being homosexual. The percentage of homosexuals has always been about the same, just not that of homosexuals who freely admit to being homosexual.

Answer: There are more homosexual animals than you'd think. I have seen more male dogs hump other male dogs than I have sen homosexual men in my life.

I don't think we should kill you, we should just beat some common sense into your head, maybe combined with the ability to read before typing.

The only IGNORANT person on this post is you Mec, and this post will not die simply because you refuse to preach what you are fed without thinking about it yourself.

Have a nice day in church. [/quote]
Blahdeblahdeblah.

Ok you're bisexual, I said 'to my knowledge'.

That's disgusting, in my opinion. You can't even justify that by saying it's a hormone imbalance. There's a difference between men and women people.


Yes, I have proved it! If behavior like this is allowed, it influences other people to do the same thing, one of them might be my future children! You ignorant people who can't admit they were wrong (I'll admit it, it's hard for me too), just ignore what I'm saying over and over, and don't pay ANY thought to it.

I'm contradicting myself? So you're saying that because we have freedom of religion, we should be able to do whatever we want! What I was saying is that things should not be able to pass by just because there's 'freedom of religion'. I didn't mean it as "freedom for only MY religion", what you are saying is "freedom of religion when it has to do with what I want it to.


Oho, and yes they are unnatural.

Nature has nicely provided us a fun way to reproduce. Take the fun, abandon the reproduction: that's not what nature means for us. So it's unnatural.
[quote]
They are NOT harmful, because people are not influenced into being homosexual, they either are, or aren't.
[/quote]

That's not how it works, people are responsible for their own actions which makes us different from animals. It's not 'are' or 'aren't', it's do, or do not. There is a dramatic increase of homosexuals all of this sudden! Oh, perhaps it's because it has become 'ok' to society. This proves that it is unnatural and harmful.

[quote] You can't compare a choice (smoking marijuana, which I believe SHOULD be legalized as it is in the Netherlands already) to something you do not decide but are born with. [/quote]

Yes, but I could compare a choice to a choice.

OOk, about the bible thingy. I didn't mean it as scare tactics, my point was: after that, the woman was not likely to commit adultery again! Why stone her? She might deserve it, but we all do. The only time someone should be stoned is to prevent it from happening again!


[quote]In a democracy you or anyone your age as well as unborn children as you keep naming them, do not rule anything. Legal voting age where I am is 18. Sorry, yo lost. I get to vote, you don't.[/quote] And then when you're all old, I get to vote for some president who encourages abortion and you get NO social security !

IT's not coming out of the closet. I don't think there are SO Many people who can hide their lifestyle so effectively. You're right, they don't have to 'fear for their lives' when they come 'out of the closet' anymore. They don't have to fear for anything, which is why this lifestyle is growing.

The bottom line is, life's about choices, and gay people made a wrong one and refuse to face the consequences.

I highly doubt that you've seen that many homosexual animals. My life isn't too near many animals so I wouldn't know. What I do know is YOU CHOOSE WHAT YOU DO! FACE THE CONSEQUENCES.

Afireinside: IF you think rationalization is a big word you should go back to elementary school. I'm not going to listen to you because you refuse to take responsibility for your actions. And so what if I haven't gone through puberty. This is kind of like picking on people who are smaller than you. You don't have to deal with kids because you can use their age against them, you don't have to deal with unborn babies because you can kill them. One thing I know is that I sure as life can't help being twelve (almost thirteen, by the way). So, since you're going to use my age against me, you see, just as my age can change, so can your lifestyle.

You refuse to even think that gay could be choice! If so, homosexuals are life slaves, and we should pity them, and try to help them out of their bondage (maybe via the guillotine?). Go google and look up to see if many christians (or former christians, of course) aren't gay. They know that it's immoral (except catholics, I don't know about them really)

[afireinside]

Afireinside: IF you think rationalization is a big word you should go back to elementary school. I'm not going to listen to you because you refuse to take responsibility for your actions. And so what if I haven't gone through puberty. This is kind of like picking on people who are smaller than you. You don't have to deal with kids because you can use their age against them, you don't have to deal with unborn babies because you can kill them. One thing I know is that I sure as life can't help being twelve (almost thirteen, by the way). So, since you're going to use my age against me, you see, just as my age can change, so can your lifestyle.

you have no idea of how "bad" your life is

my parents disowned me as well as my friends
ive been raped yeah ill admit it i get the crap beaten out of me every day
in school ive had kids beat me up and the teachers just watched
i could go on but i do not wish to depress myself


of by the way that whole post you made did not have one fact in it other that your views and they dont prove anything

mec you say life is full of choices, did you choose to be straight?

i dont care if you like me or dont accept me, all i want is for you to stop being so hateful.

why do watse so much time hating? you are wasting both of our lives, lifes to short man, dont turn bitter before you've had a chance to live.

i dont think you are a bad person but you just are to hateful

you will ruin your life if you continue on this way.

focus more on your life not mine, you need to think about your life like what you want to do in the future and what kind of person you want to be.

[Squee]

Squee: You can't help being vietnamese, but one can help being gay.

Sure I can. I can take all my traditions and throw them to my wind. I can totally assimalate myself into the norm. However, how happy do you think I'll be in the end? Yay, society finally accepted me because I took everything that made me "Me" and let it burn to the ground. (Obviously, society accepts people of different races now but just replace the word "Vietnamese" with the word "Gay" and it's the same scenario.)

Racism, sexism, age-ism - they're all prejudice. You can slice it, dice it, pretty it up, dress it down but it's always prejudice.

Mec, I don't think you've had the honour of being a victim of prejudice. You've never had a child's father walk up to you and say "Go back to your own country" before nor have you ever heard the words "Go kill yourself, cigarette" come from your best friend. Words like that hurt like you wouldn't believe. In fact, they hurt so badly that some people have to actually kill themselves because they can't deal with it.

Of course, those gay people can always hide themselves (lock themselves away) and pretend to be normal. I'm sure they'll love that. It sounds like so much fun.

Okay, fine then. You don't believe that people are born gay. That's fine. I wasn't born liking sea-food. Know what? It still happened. I go to restaurants and eat lobster and crabs and squid. Some people think that's absolutely disgusting. I mean... look at lobsters! They're gross! It's not...natural.

If I truly enjoy lobster, why should I have to stop? Oh, because I can always have the steak, right? What if I don't like steak. What if I like my lobster just fine? I'm not hurting anybody by sitting and eating my lobster, am I? Oh, wait, I am - I forgot.

I could influence someone (like your child) to try lobster. And your child might actual like lobster. In fact, your child might like lobster so much that they turn their back to steak.

So here's what I say we do - take all the Lobster-lovers and stick them in one country. Then take all the Steak-lovers and put them somewhere else. Then, we can take the Chinese and put them somewhere and then put the French somewhere. Then we'll mark off places and stick all the heterosexuals on to one island and homosexuals on the other.

I mean, what other way is there to show that we truly love one another than to completely seperate them because of a difference? One, petty difference?

[Lady_Maha]

Gosh Mec, your first word in your last post sums it all up, doesn't it? "Blahdeblahdeblah" is such a mature way to start a reply, truely brilliant, a sign of superior communication skills.

Once again you prove that you can't read or even present valid arguments. "Because I say so" is NOT considered a reasonable reply when asked for proof.

I wil not continue to repeat everything I have said to you, because you will just continue to ignore me. despite proof you still consider homosexuality a choice, despite medical facts you consider something that is not life a human being.

I just have to say that no, when I am old YOU won't vote over MY retirement, since you don't live where I live and your bigotry, racism and bias won't affect my life at all, I just feel sorry for those people who will be affected by it.

Anyway, you are a child that is not worth arguing with, you keep stomping your foot and preaching what you are preached to without applying any reason or hearing arguments, so my discussion with you is over. THis thread will die and you will continue to talk to yourself and not convince any of us that you are right. We will simply laugh at your bigotry and stubbornness and pray that when you grow into adulthood your underdeveloped brain will have caught up with the rest of your body.

[Lich]

Sits down lowers his head.... on my right arm is a tattoo a gentle wolf hanging over three red feathers with white tips. It meaning taken from the American indians.. I got it after the first Iraq the gentle wolf means I have been in a war but did not have to kill anyone, the red feathers with white tips meaning I didn't get hurt either. Award recieved 2 AAM's

On my left arm a bloody wolf showing 12 teeth, the teeth dripping blood each tooth represents a man and the blood is theirs on my flesh. gotten after bosnia, 12 teeth one for each man I killed in that god forsaken place. 8 in two cars that my plattoon opened fire on when it refused to stop at a check point. But 4 I will always remember as I looked through the scope of a barett 50 caliber rifle pulled the trigger and had to wonder will his family ever be the same. award recived ACOM 2 AAM's

Under that an arm band with three hanging feather red with black tips, I was in a war and injured and I will now relay to you what the medal I recieved said.

Specialist ..... acted with both valor and bravery on the sept. 11 2001, being injured to his sclap and bleeding he returned to the pentagon, not once but 6 times helping the insure that survivors found the exit, and recieved medical treatment untill he himself was forced to stop by an officer who relised that the blood on his face was his own. So for this act of bravery we award him the AAM and Arcom. May the United states always call him a hero.

My name is wrighten for ever next to great men, who are held up as the example of what a warrior should be. BUT GUESS WHAT MEC IM BISEXUAL, how does that make you feel mec something you hate more than life it's self is being held up as a hero. I hope it makes you sick, I hope you spend the whole of the night in your bathroom vomiting, Because you self righteous son of pregnant dog, I was Bi the whole time, the whole time I was fighting for you to have the right to hate me, just so I could have the right to tell you this is how I am like it or not, Im also a pagen everything about me you hate.

but I fought so you could keep your hate, but now I can keep mine you are a bigott and probally yourself scared you are gay, you are afraid mec that anyone who is different than you would be equal with you, well here is a hint mec 15 million americans say im better im a war hero, approved and signed off on by your precious MR bush...lmao...

The fact is mec I have killed more men than years you have been alive, I fought for my country but I said nothing I couldn't even say what my religion was because until 10 people stood up in fort hood exas and forced the reedom of religion laws they weren't even allowed to have a place to meet. But when they did it was people like you that put the priestess in the hospital, destroyed her car and home. You are a biggot and that to me makes you the lowest form of life there is. You are not worthy of my respect let alone god's. Untill you have grown up STFU.

I refuse to give my full real name to you, because you dont need to have it, but if you dought any of this ask both Maharet and Night Angel who have both known me in real life and who will gladly tell you that it is true

Edited by Lich, 31 August 2004 - 06:44 AM.

[Cule]

no!! stop!! you are destroying yourself!

[afireinside]

im proud of you lich dont let anyone bring you down

[Night_Angel]

Lich, beloved brother, your a strong man and if anyone has any question to you and they choose not to believe your words. then i say forget them they are not worth your time nor are they worthy any of explination or background we have.
I Love You Brother

MEC

we all have reasons why we believe what we belive you say your a Christian as am I. but i remember one thing IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO JUDGE ANYONE. and by you repeditly telling the people who post on this thread that they are wrong you are judging them. if you feel you must do something then do what we have been told. LET GO AND LET GOD you have told your side, if they choose to think on it and POSSIBLY contemplate a change in mind then they will do so but if they do not you will not change their mind by repeditly condeming them. you have made your point this is not discussion anymore its and arguement in wich you are repeating the same thing over and over again. either change your approch to a conversation and stop condeming people, or shut up. i have one question for you, WHO MADE YOU GOD TO JUDGE AND CONDEM??

some of these people are very good friends of mine, you see me call them brother and sister and i do not take that lightly, so even if you dont understand about love i do and i love these people i dont care what their beliefs are or what their political background is i love them. no questions asked. i would do anything for them and they for me. there are some Christian friends i couldnt say that much about.

Edited by Night_Angel, 31 August 2004 - 06:38 PM.

[Karri]

MEC

we all have reasons why we believe what we belive you say your a Christian as am I. but i remember one thing  IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO JUDGE ANYONE. and by you repeditly telling the people who post on this thread that they are wrong you are judging them. if you feel you must do something then do what we have been told. LET GO AND LET GOD  you have told your side, if they choose to think on it and POSSIBLY contemplate a change in mind then they will do so  but if they do not you will not change their mind by repeditly condeming them.  you have made your point this is not discussion anymore its and arguement in wich you are repeating the same thing over and over again. either change your approch to a conversation and stop condeming people, or shut up. i have one question for you, WHO MADE YOU GOD TO JUDGE AND CONDEM??

some of these people are very good friends of mine, you see me call them brother and sister and i do not take that lightly, so even if you dont understand about love i do and i love these people  i dont care what their beliefs are or what their political background is i love them. no questions asked. i would do anything for them and they for me.  there are some Christian friends i couldnt say that much about.

Well said; fully agree;

He won't read it.

[Cody]

First Off Let me say i am a proud republican.

-Gays and lesbians: I belive this is morally wrong as it was said befor if a gay guy walked through a door i'd be the first to give them a hand shake or a hug. Just because you disagree with somones life style or you religion disagrees with somones life style it don't mean you can bash them. I don't think gays should be alowed to get married on the other hand because we are supposed to have seperation of church and state. Getting married is a religious thing unless done by the state and then its not the same.

-Abortion: I am pro-life. I belive that abortion should not be allowed. If you are retarted and get knocked up that child is a living thing and killing it is murder. It is just wrong. Now if somone gets raped or under some other extream situation i think that it should be a option. Then again every situation is diffrent and could weigh morally heavy on either side.

-Kerry:First of lets get kerry out of the way. He first said war was totally wrong, and now he says that bush was right to enter into war. He went to Vietnam by choice. I respect the man for his great contribution but then he came home threw away his medals spit on his uniform and even at one point its rumored he denied being in vietnam. Now he uses it as a campain push? Whats with this guy? What does he stand for? Democrats are so busy trying to get power back that they have just pounded themselfs into the ground. "Help is on the way" In my opinion if this guy get in the office it will be. "Hell is on the way"

-Bush and the War and 9/11:
-9/11: Yes there was sum extent of knowledge about this attack. Yet i say it is not bushes fault because so many decisions and threats come through the oval office every day. He took action after the attack to correct his mistake.

-War: Why did we go? Was it a good decision? Could diffrent actions have been taken? Many question and loads of contraversy(sp?) have surrounded this war. I belive we went in to over through a man who had no respect for human life and was consumed by greed, also to truely look for weapons of mass destruction. In my opinion good came out of the war. And for all those that arn't pro-life the whats it matter if a soldier goes to a diffrent country for country, for pride, and for freedom. Also to be honest a war happends in history about ever 20 years. Every time somone dies. I see war as humans way of natural selection. The world gets over populated. People go to war, people die, and the world is back to normal. The best most prepared, strongest, intelligent, pashionate people will win. So they will be the ones to carry on the next generation. War is basicly a natural thing and is bound to happen at some point.

-Bush:Yea bush isn't perfect but show me somone who is. Bush knows what he stands for and is not afraid to say it. There are 2 kinds of people. Eagles and geese. Bush is a "eagle". A leader not a follower and no matter what anyone says he will stand his ground. Bush stands for everything i do and i respect the man.

-Random: I think what america does need is some good hard solid truth something that has not been around in a long time. The whole world is killing themselfs with this political correctness bull crap. I'd rather somone tell me hey "your not gonna be able to do everything so find somthing and stick with" it instead of "You can do anything if you put your mind to it" ... No you can't show me one kid that plays nm that becomes a pro football player... or who starts a band and goes plantinum. Or another example "The world has its problems but over all its pritty good". I wanna hear "The world is in trouble" some day the ****s gonna hit the fan and people are gonna wake up.

P.S. IF YOU DISAGREE OR BELIVE ANY OF MY OPIONS ARE TOTALLY OFFSET WRONG AND OR OFFENSIVE PLEASE TELL ME BECAUSE I ALSO AM NOT A PERFECT AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU PEOPLE THINK ABOUT MY IDEALS. SO IF I NEED TO BE CORRECTED PLEASE DO SO IN A DECENT MANOR.

[Penguin]

rofl this topic is still going? well I just saw that, clicked on the last page (11 oh my gosh) and while scanning through it quick I saw the most interesting capital-lettered word...

CONDEM

um what?

Edited by Penguin, 01 September 2004 - 02:30 AM.

[Zylia]

Mec.. I have just a couple things to say...

Of all the problems that our society experiences... you are a prime example of a main one. Your ideology and hardheadedness is what causes set backs for our society. Your ideas are ones that postpone and/or prevent the ability of citizens of our great nation to experience happiness during their time on earth.

I've given up trying to make you understand that not everyone is like you. You're a pubescent (barely) kid who doesn't understand what the roles of sex and relationships have on adult life. You don't understand what its like to have kids and to bear children. You wont probably for another good 10 years either. Probably more. Maybe before you rattle off what your pastor told you at church, you should take some secular courses on society and the people within it.

[Night_Angel]

ok so im not the best speller if thats all you have to offer to the thread penguin is to point out my spelling errors please move on and be quiet.

and for anyone who couldnt figure out what i was saying *cough*Penguine*cough*
the word is condemn

to express disapprovial of, censure, critize
to pronounce judgement against, to sentence, to doom
to deminstrate the guilt of, to convict
to judge or declair unfit for public consumption, usually by official order


does that make it all better penguine i filled in teh one letter i missed.

Edited by Night_Angel, 01 September 2004 - 01:26 PM.

[Angelus]

That's some dedicated reading. Doubt you're gonna get a response after 8 years tho. So... what's the weather like in Ohio?

[Exor]

Hahaha what the fuck? Man you must be bored to have went back and read forum posts from nearly a decade ago. Reminds me how lively the NM forums once were.

[Apocalypto]

thats probably amy goodloe