52 replies to this topic

[Roidhun]

Well some argue that there are to many items. Some on the other hand would argue that the player base is to small. I tend to agree with the latter of the two. So with that being said why don't we try to be a little nicer to the new people and stop running them off. JLH isn't running them off. The game is an awesome game so I don't think that is it either. Alot of it has to do with peoples unwillingness to help others. Back in the day people made an honest effort at going out of thier way to help new players. It was not uncommon to see people sitting in the Boar's Tusk Inn to do just that.

Well we reap what you sow. So many are so compelled to be the best in the game. Beating down the little guy to do it. Well look around folks. You win!!! You beat the little guy so much he has lost his desire to fight anymore. So now all those shiney items you keep collecting are sitting there losing value each day. Because we ran the next generation of n00bs off. Sucks to be us.

Momba, I'll have to agree with you - at least partially, because I still think that there is way too many items ingame at present.

I remember way back when there were whole clans with the stated purpose of helping n00bs...

/sigh just another reminder to me not to log on again...

[JLH]

of course there is always the option of moving the nm2 feature "durability" into nm1, but that would be too much work since it's an entirely different item system (since all items have to be individual to retain their stats).

[Prophet]

I dont think it fits into the realm, tax possibly for entering an area or buying somthing from shop but lets suppose thats already added. Theres no government earning the tax so it really surves no purpose. Why not allow players to change the picture on their items for 500k.

Who said there was no government, King Housemeld owns a large area of land, and tbh a flying blimp has no place in the "land" but its still there so

Tax in all seriousness would be a good option,

[Roidhun]

of course there is always the option of moving the nm2 feature "durability" into nm1, but that would be too much work since it's an entirely different item system (since all items have to be individual to retain their stats).

How much real programming work are you going to be doing on NM1 as we move closer to the first release of NM2? I seem to remember posts to the effect that NM1 would more or less be put on a hold status, (I've not searched them out, so bear with an old man's memories here).

Bottom line, as I see it, is that NM2 ultimately will have to take priority and new features will not be put in this incarnation of the game?

[Boys Night Out]

I think you should deal with the prices in a different way. Try and get as many boss drops as you possible can so that you're the only one selling them... Wouldnt that then give you all the control over the price of the item?

[JLH]

in theory, yes

[Boys Night Out]

Well you're a smart guy JLH. lock all the bosses so that only my crits can enter the square... and i'll have a field day selling items

[fallen]

There is deffiently a few good suggestions here, I personally think Aeryn's suggestion of having a place you can take say 3 of one item and have it turned into the same item with a + stat, of coruse the modifacation would have to differ depending if item was say a weapon or ring or boots ect (ie weapon +3 damage base...boots +3 ac ect)..... I am quite sure every one would be turning in thier stock pile of items to have this improvment done to the item, and would in turn increase the demand for many items as well...perhaps make it have a price to get the mod done to items, you could use this method to improve on the current gold situation as well ....have it cost say 300k (and the 3 items) to have this mod of +3 done to the item and maybe give the option of +4 for 900k (dont focus on the prices just the idea, using prices as an example).

This idea would total reverse the continous decline in demand for items and renew the market for many of the old items in game that are way over populated...I really think with this addition and a modification done to the current drop % rate on items (perhaps introduce some alternative drops) it could really stimulate the market and demand on pretty much every item in game.

[Prophet]

In doing that though crits would break the 250 armor barrier? And zerks would now hit for 180+ :X

[Trevayne]

I think you should deal with the prices in a different way. Try and get as many boss drops as you possible can so that you're the only one selling them... Wouldnt that then give you all the control over the price of the item?

in theory, yes

But in practice, no. Let's say that I managed to get every drop from the spider king for the next 9 months. Would I then be able to set the price of SGs? No. Let's say I then decide that SGs are worth 270k like in the good old days (12 months ago). I set the price, manage to sell a few, and then the folks who have stockpiles of SGs (or those who just bought them from me and decided they didn't need them) decide to go out and sell some for 260k. I lower my price, they lower theirs, and soon we're back at the same point.

Unless you control the entire supply and stockpile, or unless the items is consumed when used (like a mana crystal), this theory never works out.

[fallen]

In doing that though crits would break the 250 armor barrier? And zerks would now hit for 180+ :X

you can hit for 180+ with a good zrker with the current system and yes armor base would increase on crits but it would increase across the board not just for select people... I dont think it would unbalance things you get an increase of +3 damage base on your weapon but you get an increase on a few different armor base items in turn getting hit for less damage even with the damage base of weapons increased..and lets be honest with the release of the mage spell devastation +3 damage base to a weapon isnt going to throw things off.....

[minooka]

if there are so many drops in game just decrease drop rates make those items harder to get

[Final Universe]

The idea of trading up your items is good. However it could be acomplished with out added more powerful items to the game.

3 crystal rings=1 stone ring(4 ac)
7 Gloves of Vigor=1 Gauntlets of Ingenuity (+2 str 4 ac lvl28 to eq)
10 Halberds = 1 Blade of Torture (28 base damage lvl29 to eq)
4 boots of time=1 boots of fortune(2 ac +1wis lvl20 to eq)
3 spider gauntlets=1 white gauntlets (+1 str +1wis lvl27 to equip)


There would be proper class specifications for these of course.

Library info for Stone Ring:
Armor base: 4, Can be worn by: clerics, druids, fighters, mages, paladins, rangers, thieves, pacifists, Description: The Stone Ring is an band of solid stone that screams with defiance., Level needed to equip it: 30, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0.


Library info for Gauntlets of Ingenuity:
Armor base: 4, Can be worn by: clerics, druids, fighters, mages, paladins, rangers, thieves, pacifists, Description:The Gauntlets of Ingeunity are crafted by a fine merchant. They are made from a sort of black hide with blue stones topping each fingertip. Down each wrist drapes strands of red and white leather. From pure apperance you can tell they are carved to perfection right down to the last stitch. These Gauntlets offer thier owner added sense of strength and protection. ., Level needed to equip it: 28, Strength modifier: 2, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0.

Library info for Blade of Torture:
Base damage: 28, Can be used by: fighters, paladins, berserkers, Description: From the first galnce the blade of torture seems to be like an ordinary sword. With further inspection you can see small spikes poking out from the center of the blade. At the tip of each spikes shines diamond points hand placed by its crafter. This blade was designed to inflact massive ammounts of pain to its victims , Level needed to equip it: 29, Magical: No, Vamparic: No, Armor: 0, Strength modifier: 0, Intelligence modifier: 0, Dexterity modifier: 0, Constitution modifier: 0, Wisdom modifier: 0, Charisma modifier: 0, Poison chance: 0, Poison/30s damage: 0, Monster damage table: , Mana leech: .

Thats what i have so far...seems reasonable to me.

[Boys Night Out]

wow. thats a nice idea. the problem would then be demand for them within time thought... giving a bit more competition to the game... COULD BE COOL

[fallen]

The idea of trading up your items is good. However it could be acomplished with out added more powerful items to the game.

but without improving a item above all prevous items I think it presents a problem .....who would trade 7 pairs of gloves of vigor for 1 pair or gaunts of Virtue with a differnet name >>>?? .....I mean I think the idea of trading a few items in for a totally differnet item is a good idea, but the change has to be dramatic enough to appeal to plp to actually make the change..for instance who would trade in 3 sov swords to have a one sov sword of a differnet name ?? At first it would be cool and appealing to have this new item cause there isnt any in game but after everyone starts to get them new items the novelty will ware off of having the same item with a differnet name... the benfit needs to be high enough to make people wanna run out and get the mods done and turn in those 20 pairs of sgs in thier vault.

Edited by fallen, 14 January 2006 - 10:31 PM.

[Final Universe]

what i suggested was 7 gloves of vigor (Currently selling for 300k) 7*300k=2.1mil for somthing SIMILAR to gauntlets of virtue(currently selling for 2.1mil) however they can be equiped at lvl28 instead of 29. Its slightly better item with a cool new name.

[Sneaky]

10 gloves of vigor for it lol, number of gauntlets of virtue in game is for sure under 20...

[Trevayne]

Let me make clear a few parts of the original items-for-item trade suggestion.

I didn't want to introduce anything new into the game, as that requires significant effort from the staff to ensure that it is balanced. This was meant as a simple and incomplete patch to help out the economy.

The low-level items should be things that are currently under-valued (like SGs, CRs, rose blades, halberds).

The high-level items should be things that are either items that there is much more demand for than there are items, and preferably higher-priced store items. For example, trading up for a Ring of Astray or Boots of Faith is a good thing because the market can withstand a large influx of these items (they would be put to use on characters right away) and they are items that have a fixed value (since they sell in stores).

I don't think that you should be able to trade up for higher-level drops. You wouldn't be able to trade up to a blade of time, since there is no fixed store item for it. If you are able to do this, then soon there will be far too many blades of time in game and then people will start complaining about how the price of BoTs has fallen so much.

[fallen]

Let me make clear a few parts of the original items-for-item trade suggestion.

I didn't want to introduce anything new into the game, as that requires significant effort from the staff to ensure that it is balanced. This was meant as a simple and incomplete patch to help out the economy.

The low-level items should be things that are currently under-valued (like SGs, CRs, rose blades, halberds).

The high-level items should be things that are either items that there is much more demand for than there are items, and preferably higher-priced store items. For example, trading up for a Ring of Astray or Boots of Faith is a good thing because the market can withstand a large influx of these items (they would be put to use on characters right away) and they are items that have a fixed value (since they sell in stores).

I don't think that you should be able to trade up for higher-level drops. You wouldn't be able to trade up to a blade of time, since there is no fixed store item for it. If you are able to do this, then soon there will be far too many blades of time in game and then people will start complaining about how the price of BoTs has fallen so much.

I also dont think you should be able to trade a low level drop to get a high end item .... I think you should be able to trade 3 of 1 item in at a cost to get a current Item modified.... example 3 blades of time and 300k to a vendor and recieve a +3 damage base to your blade of time...it would lower the amount of items in game as well as the amount of gold.

[Redheart]

ok all that reading made my mind up to just keep all my good stuff and wait til prices go back up.

[Roidhun]

It seems to me that you are all complicating things unneccessarily. This game was developed around a player-driven economy. Now we've got player-driven inflation.

The simple answer to the situation, without bringing more gold or new shinies into the game, is and will remain to be: To forcibly lower the number of shinies ingame and controlling that number by drop rates.

I am well aware that there are players who will whine about the amount of gold they've spent and the amount of work that some at least have put in, I've worked and paid for mine too, but I'd rather see them /destroyed and replaced with the nearest equivalent standard item than see new shinies and elaborate trading schemes destroying the economy and the game further.

[Raylen]

Suggestion: Shop where you buy expensive items

Gets gold out of the game, as well as adding some cool new items! Whoever thought of that idea is a hero!


Edit: this idea may not solve the actual problem you guys are all going on about though

Edited by Raylen, 16 January 2006 - 10:51 AM.

[Roidhun]

Alan, we have such shops, for paci's in Tirantek and for the rest of the classes in Harabec. Even RoA is a shop-bought item, and if I can get my dumb little party down that corridor, so can most anyone else with a couple of arches and gold to spare.

Those shops have done squat for the economy! If truth be told, they may even have worsened it, by bringing some, at the time, cool new items into the game, items that could be bought, not fought for.

Stat-modding and armor-enhancing items should be rareties - as it is today, nobody enters an event or goes on a trip without a full set of stat-mods on his/her crits - and if you lack a CR, an AoH or whatever for a crit, you either buy one or let the crit stay home. I don't really think that's the way most of us "oldies" envisioned the world of Nightmist, and it certainly is not the way Nightmist was back when owning a CR was owning a major shiny.

And now this rant brings me to my point: Kill those shinies ie. remove them from the game, remove their equivalent shops and set the bosses' drop rates to "once in a blue moon".
Alternatively, and if JLH wants to put in the work, use durability to make them go away - at a fairly high rate at first, then progressively slower, until a reasonable number is reached, still setting very small drop rates on bosses.
The third and final solution would be removing the "shiny-shops", lowering drop rates and do a game /RESET - not forgetting to let the newer players have their week or two's worth of fun as lvl 30 with lots of gold...