54 replies to this topic

[deadman]

Malok area can not be changed to 1-30 only.. main reason for this being.. how would Malok be able to be killed? Yes a lot do train there, but i can name you off a bunch of thieves that train elsewhere well hidden just as easily in spots that EVERYONE can get to. I even use to own a druid myself and found plenty of spots i could hide in and not be found or bothered by pkers. Quit complaining about one class, and go use your characters the right way and find good hiding spots not well traveled areas where people KNOW you train.

[Ill never tell]

Malok area can not be changed to 1-30 only.. main reason for this being.. how would Malok be able to be killed? Yes a lot do train there, but i can name you off a bunch of thieves that train elsewhere well hidden just as easily in spots that EVERYONE can get to. I even use to own a druid myself and found plenty of spots i could hide in and not be found or bothered by pkers. Quit complaining about one class, and go use your characters the right way and find good hiding spots not well traveled areas where people KNOW you train.

Hmm. Good hiding spots that no one ever goes.. Sounds like thats pretty far from a town.. Sounds like you would have to go back and forth for mana or pots.. Unless... You had a Dotw!!!

[deadman]

Really depends on where you go, and your level of the character as to how many pots/mana you need. Yes, thieves have DOTW so what? druids/ranger/fighter/pally can get more armor then a thief.

[Peacemaker]

Let me make this post just so if you are a druid user you know you have another option. If you are morphed with a druid and using a spider staff on the same kind of monsters that these thiefs train on you can regain your health as well and stay training far out of town. You attacked a Hedge Lord with a Claws for 63 points of damage. x3 Thats with a spider staff on.

[Ill never tell]

Rangers and Druids are easy to train out of town. Druids especially sense they can hide and then go somewhere and as you said morphed and spider staff is gg. Pallys can go anywhere. This is all at lvl 25+ish of course. But fighters/zerks/mages/clerics cant stray to far away from a pub/shop and 3 of those 4 are easy to follow out of town.
Point is that thieves not only have dotw, not only can hide out of town, not only can click monsters and players, but also have a private training ground.

[Walt]

Not supported. A level cap would not solve anything in this case because then people would just keep a thief to use down there just like other people have alot of different alts of various races and classes for other lower leveld capped areas. They can still camp down there and still train in relative peace while making thier gold.

And to comment on this post. All of you high level theives did work hard to get to the level you are but you had an area that only that class could enter to train in? Everyone else has to run around in places anyone can get to. The thieves can log on and be like "Hmm I feel like training I think ill go to malok and mess around and have someone sit at the door so that I can know when another thief is coming. And not have to worry about anything!" Other people log on and have to figure out where they are going to train or move from spot to spot that day.


"If the area works well for the majority of players, then it is well designed."

Thats just the kinda post I expected to see from gaddy. Never tries to fix anything just tries to justify how everything is perfect and nm is fine the way it is.. So delusional. Funny how when it was the mage class that was the "unbalanced" class things were being added and tested to fix them even though it was one mage that was 4-5 leves higher then everyone else. Who would of thought that something 4-5 levels higher would easily kill someone weaker..... But now that its the thieves nothing is even tested? Oh wait, I guess it was emma who worked and tested the absorb.

This by far sums up pretty much what I had argued about in another posting to get the Malok area opened up to other classes. Staff should read this unbiased and very truthful paragraph i have colored the same, and rethink the idead of having an area specificaly designed for not only one certain class, but the most dominant one too.

When main was a pk server, anyone who noticed people training in the malok area could load anything fro 1-20 alts, and go down there and battle for another persons hard trained gold/ck drops. Not everyone who plays 1A has a high level thief as a main. They may have a high level mage or druid. People like to pk on this server, it is fun. But can you really see a level 33 or 34 thief going in there by themselves fighting one of the 35(+) thieves down there, especially if they are in a party? It would be almost certain suicide. Having a friend who can help will make things more interesting.

This is a bit off topic, but there is truth to this as well. And it was more like 3-4 high level mages.(freek, puremourning, deceit, pwn_nub, all in MD at the time, as well as kertenx. Only a few people cried about how overpowered mages were. I myself did not support the anti magic nerfing bracelets. I still think if they should remain in game, they should be used by only classes who are very weak such as Pallies, fighters and clerics. Those classes only imo.

Edited by Walt, 16 September 2008 - 11:49 AM.

[Cadabra]

" But can you really see a level 33 or 34 thief going in there by themselves fighting one of the 35(+) thieves down there, especially if they are in a party? It would be almost certain suicide. Having a friend who can help will make things more interesting."

Can you imagine the lvl 25+ that go down there and get clicked by one of those lvl 35+'s?
You ant say DONT go down there, its a training ground FOR thieves.

[ChiliPepper]

Well I've started playing again and have enjoyed solitary training away from this area. I have been there on my own at 28 and it isn't quite efficient yet. I'll have to try again once I've reached master. That is of course if I'm allowed by then!

Oh and, well said Walt.

[Walt]

Can you imagine the lvl 25+ that go down there and get clicked by one of those lvl 35+'s?
You ant say DONT go down there, its a training ground FOR thieves.

For the most part I do not go down there. The only time I really go there is to kill Malok with my clan. I tend to go down there if a fight may be in the works, or if no one in my clan is down there, I may go explore it and try to learn it more efficently.

If you want good, effective training at level 25, then you do not want to be down in the Malok area by yourself. The master thieves triple hit, making any level under 31 drink their pots/brews at a rather rapid rate. When the area was designed, for all intents and purposes it was probably meant for one person to be down there with a good sized party of alts with dotw. Solo training, or even a lower level party training in that area is not a good place to make gold.

When 1A was opened, and additional stamina was given to other races and classes, Maloks area became "soloable" after thieves got their 6th stamina. Devotchka dabbled in the area a bit here and there pre arch, and noticed that if she took down like 10k in gold, it reduced the damage being done to her by the master thieves. She also took the chance of having someone come in and:
1) kill her with whatever gold she had made up until that time plus her 10k "bank"
2) someone coming in and waiting until the master thief was mort and just killing it and walking off with her bank(+).

In all, this area is open for level 20 and up, but it is not made for pre arch training, unless of corse you want to spend an inventory of brews/pots, and only get to kill a small amount of npcs before going back out and resuplying your inventory.

As I said before, putting a level cap on the area won't stop people who religiously train down there. It will only make them level up and cap out the required level it is. It will still hinder any lower level training down there.

One of two things will put an end to this debate:
1) Leave it alone, and let thieves continue to have their very own playground to prance around in with very little recourse, while every other class has to hide and continuously look over their shoulder for pkers.
2)Open the area up to other classes and hope the thieves get what they have coming to them thinking they are safe to train whenever they get the urge.

I myself vote for 2 so Devotchka gets her "comeuppins" *giggles*

Edited by Walt, 16 September 2008 - 04:54 PM.

[EvilDognapot]

Ok, if we restrict access to the Malok area what do we think will happen? It will be more popular? Apparently all it's good for is high lvl training and pking (just going off this thread here), so we take that away and it's good for what? It's not particularly good for lower level use, so ultimately we would just push the same players to a new location where they can do the same thing. If we're upset about an implied advantage that theives have in that area, why wouldn't we use the area's properties to balance the powers. Thief vs. thief pvp is some of the most fun stuff in NM, just get a party inside when no one's on, log it off, and assemble it again when someone is in there, your target is visible and the lookouts are going to be in particular intersections that can be avoided with proper planning. I mean, just grow a pair guys, this game is like a dozen people at any time and you worry about safety outside Malok's place? The way you guys make it sound, you'd think that they're constantly in there training and singing a happy tune; that's an easy target, maybe some of us are on the wrong server.

[Cadabra]

Well I've started playing again and have enjoyed solitary training away from this area. I have been there on my own at 28 and it isn't quite efficient yet. I'll have to try again once I've reached master. That is of course if I'm allowed by then!

Oh and, well said Walt.

Ok so i guessing you in Pande?? Which is why its safe.

For the most part I do not go down there. The only time I really go there is to kill Malok with my clan. I tend to go down there if a fight may be in the works, or if no one in my clan is down there, I may go explore it and try to learn it more efficently.

lol I never said it was only you its mostly Gayton/Tony/Lunatic/Sin/Manda in there.

Edited by hell, 16 September 2008 - 07:28 PM.

[Gnarkill]

I wasn't in pande and I trained off the guards right inside the door with rockstar(lvl 22-23 at the time didn't get killed ..didn't even see anyone..infact he was lvl 23 with 0 deaths and I wasn't in pande) for a while when there weren't many on... Pande doesn't "own" Maloks and they aren't the only ones that train there. Its all about training in different areas not just one that makes u become predictable and a "ezpk" ....learning where to train so you don't get pkd is part of the game.. not having staff adjust it so its that much easier to train.. I mean ffs all u do is sit and click or hit macros anyways on this game..its not that hard.. and if pking (part of the game) is getting to you .. there is a whole other server to play on that doesnt allow it.

As for thieves having thier own areas .. its because they are underpowered..and I stick with that statement because once a party of zerks or mages or even druids gets that level and takes on a party of thieves that level .. guess who loses? the thieves.. the fact people worked to get thier chars that level before you did isn't a excuse to whine about it.. even when people were gettin jumped by parties of 20(or more before the 20 cap) theives on multi they never once complained about this area being thieves only? why? cause there is areas out in the middle of nowhere (that you can easily get to on 1a) with better exp/gold. the fact you're lobbying for this to be changed just shows your need to nitpick everything that you think is an "advantage" to another class.. first its mages.. now its thieves.. cant wait till someone makes zerks so theres whining threads about them...and heaven forbid people train druids and rangers in natura!?!? omg other classes cant get in!! unfair!!!

but all in all ...the 1a drama and whiney threads just forced my hand to delete my 1a chars.. it gets sickening to log in to drama and bs every single time u wanna kill some boredom by talking to friends or training/killing some mobs.

/wave 1a.

Edited by Gnarkill, 16 September 2008 - 08:25 PM.

[-×»ºLätérãlù§º«×-]

i generally like you on the forums gnarkill so i mean this with respect; you're thread was ignorant. you've never really gotten into 1a nor have you trained anything up to a substantial level to really relate to all of this. the entire basis of your argument is founded off of what you've heard and seen on this forum, opposed to concrete first hand experience. what i mean is, the heart of this thread isn't just about malok alone, but malok being another ingredient to the over-powered recipe belonging to thieves. they have dotw, level faster, make gold faster, and have their own area which gives them a more cushioned security.

why do you think there isn't an abundance of high level crits of the classes you mentioned? lol. majority rules and thieves are the majority.

[Cruxis]

On topic: Pking is never a good reason to put on a level cap, the area itself has nothing to do with you getting pk'd, go cry a river and train somewhere else. Is it the areas fault everyone uses thieves, thus the thief areas are always overrun with them? Is it the areas fault that your against the biggest clan of thieves with the highest of levels? No. Should desert ever be made lvl 30 and under cause all the lvl 25s that wanna train there cause lvl 35s to constantly rape them? No, it's stupid as hell, the only reason your complaining is cause of the area you like to train in is also the area everyone else trains in. Thieves are just too popular of a class, because they're overpowered. If anything, the area should be asked to be expanded, but thieves just need to be made less dominant, thus, less popular.

Slightly off topic: Thieves really aren't that powerful pvm, so they have dotw to last longer. Nor were they powerful pvp, so they got their own area. Lacking in this, they WERE gold makers, like they always should of been. Of course with new levels and stamina, being able to go through armor is a much, MUCH bigger bonus than it used to be.

Going through 75% armor is too zerk like for assassinate, lower it to 50% or, my personal favorite, 40%

This is really, the only thing needed to fix thieves. It's probably 5 minutes of changing code from JLH, which I'm sure he'd be willing to do if it gathered enough support, shall we start a whole topic to petition this? I've seen before someone said "don't bother doing stuff that needs coding" is terrible because it kills further support. Killing the support of change is why no changes happen, silly staffers.

I feel it should be like...
Uber powerful and poor - zerk
Uber weak and rich - thief
All other classes should fall inbetween but still have their own unique abilities, which I feel they do, except mages and paladins, which are underpowered.


I'm stupid

Edited by Cruxis, 17 September 2008 - 01:09 PM.

[Payne]

i support cruxis idea


incoming wave of QQs

[Gnarkill]

i generally like you on the forums gnarkill so i mean this with respect; you're thread was ignorant. you've never really gotten into 1a nor have you trained anything up to a substantial level to really relate to all of this. the entire basis of your argument is founded off of what you've heard and seen on this forum, opposed to concrete first hand experience. what i mean is, the heart of this thread isn't just about malok alone, but malok being another ingredient to the over-powered recipe belonging to thieves. they have dotw, level faster, make gold faster, and have their own area which gives them a more cushioned security.

why do you think there isn't an abundance of high level crits of the classes you mentioned? lol. majority rules and thieves are the majority.

I like your will to try and prove a point, but my posts weren't about just malok either. It was that the playerbase has shifted to a whiney bunch who can't seem to work for themselves.. on top of that how can you call my "thread ignorant" when I didnt even make this so called "thread"(what i did is called posting on a thread) titled "Malok: Area Level Cap?"..maybe I kept it relevant to the topic to make my point being as staff like to lock or delete things that are completely irrelevant to the thread these days...hmmm.

now to answer your "respectful" flaming lol...Yes majority does rule.. and yes it is a tad easier to train while hidden(by hidden i mean they can /covert).. but incase you forgot it takes longer to train a thief than it does other classes. So what people are getting pkd now.. and the majority is thieves now.. if peopel stuck with thier ideas to train other classes that I often hear while wandering the realm.. the thieves would have a fight on thier hand they would most likely lose.

I didnt say thieves weren't the majority.. and yes they have thier upside.. but also alot of downsides ..they were once beat constantly by mages(because mages were the high level chars on the server back then), which people whined about so now mages got nerfed with antimagic and mage kids complain... so this leads us to now.. kids complain of thieves..it doesnt work.. so they nitpick any lil thief area or eq thats been fine for how many years..thieves are weak ..they are just the high levels at the moment so they do most of the pking and whatnot and this fuels the kids to come and nitpick them untill they are rendered useless completely and the people who ahve worked hard for them get screwed and quit.

by the way not have I only owned a 29 pally and 26 druid for a nice amount of time I've had the privledge to use level 30+ thieves and a 30+ zerk Rob was so kind to lend so I could see how the pking and training/boss trips/dueling and pking go first hand..and I will stand by the quote that they are still underpowered once other chars reach the same level. Again.. its not my fault that people give up and make theives when they see how theives can jump people or hide when they train(again /covert not malok's). I couldn't get into investing so much time towards crits on a game appearing to be dying...sooo if drastic things are done to theives or thief areas.. how many of those people who worked that hard on thier thieves will stay? to me it doesnt matter anymore I took my leave of 1a.. but thanks for the feedback.

.. I would like to see how you know what chars I am on or own at any given time or use every day being as you appear to respect and know me so well "on the forums".. but I'm sure you're someone that I speak to daily so you know just whats going on in the world of gnarkill to make a post of of that magnitude. I mean .. you aren't someone who just gets your info about me off the forums and my forum posts and then says I do the same without knowing what I do in-game right? .. obviously we must be close friends in-game...

/hug lateralus.

Edited by Gnarkill, 17 September 2008 - 04:52 PM.

[-×»ºLätérãlù§º«×-]

here's the big difference between the mage situation when it happened at what is going on with thieves now:

- the reason that mages pwnt everyone was merely because the top two hardcore trainers when 1a came out happened to pick mages. those individuals being jordan and mike (mike actually stopped training a lot when he got 26-27, but by far could out-PK the whole realm).

- this caused people to complain but these mage owners didn't have any benefit, it was sheer dedicated time that put them on the top. and look at freek, he was numerous levels higher so of course he should be able to PK anyone lower easier.

- now here's a hole in your argument of "if people trained over classes to the same level ect". look at darkalliance? millions worth of equip, 21 dex, 155 armor, level 35, he'll be clicked by any thief with 7 stam.

- thieves are easy to train. look at Corey when he played. he trained Insomnia to 31 in 5 days. gg

- /hug gnarkill

[Gnarkill]

I'm not even gonna begin to speak about the names u dropped and how contraversial your idea of "hardcore" trainers they are because we all know where that will lead and I'm somewhat trying to stay on topic and I don't wanna open a "age old" 1a can of worms.

The "hole" you found in my argument was "who can click a mage" when I stated chars of the same level could beat a thief .. and I find it hard to believe that if thieves are such a problem for mages noone has made zerks.. (I wasnt just talking about people leveling mages to fight the thieves) now who could click zerk of that level with that hp because a large zerk has no problem clicking off a mage either. Each class has its own weaknesses and strengths.. as always and mages have always been a lil weak in the hp and clickable department but strong in the beaming department.


Berserker: 1 4 9 14 21 27 31 35 40.
Thief: 1 6 13 21 26 31 35 39.

Mage: 1 10 18 26 29 33 37.

If you look at the stam gain tables thieves have more stam at 26 than a mage does till 29..Same scenario here except played out at a lower level so the thieves miss a bit more on assas but can still fully click a mage thats higher level than them.

I've tossed zerks on there to show how thier stam works compared.. Zerks fully ignore armor and armor spells when smiting and can knock off mages easy.. and they have 8 stam at 35... but there isnt many big zerks running around so its not of a huge concern yet.

In my opinion this makes it look like the Mage adjustments were not even needed and maybe its not thieves that are overpowered but mages that are underpowered because alot of the cases pleaded so far is about mages vs thieves.. maybe people should turn thier attention to upgrading mages rather than "fixing" all other classes to cater to mage user.

and yes thieves are easy to train... but some other classes are quite a bit more simple.

[Ill never tell]

Didn't know it got more simpler then just tapping left click every few seconds..

Also, zerks will be the "most" overpowerd class by far when they get that high. Probelm is they spend more gold then they make and they are insane to train solo. Thieves on the other hand do insane damage with assassinate, make extreme gold and can bank almost all of it after lvl 25. Now, yes lower level zerks can click both a mage and thief and gg to them. But like cruxis said I think the only thing that will 'balance' out thieves is to knock down the rediculous 75% and make it 40 or so. That to me seems like the best fix. If not then atleast give mages 7 stam at lvl 35 and 8 at 37 to make it even close.

Also, no.. 5 lvl 35 mages wont beat 5 lvl 35 thieves with the current set up..

[cxoss]

Lol.. And ya'll thought mages were overpowerd!

[Gnarkill]

Lol.. And ya'll thought mages were overpowerd!

lolol this actually made me laugh cause it was out of nowhere GG.

Ok suggesting what Alex did can be understood.. but this whining about Malok's and dotw all of the other stuff is kinda just lame. However, Zerks cost probably as much if not a bit less as mages to train(unless u refresh and hit and run).

and the whole game is based off macros and left click.. I wouldn't consider any of it hard...lol but zerks normally use a RB or a Hally with 25 bd where a thief if they wanna not spend $$ on pots or brews uses a dotw with a bd of 20(which they had to make or spend 350k of thier made gold on) limiting what they can click with it.. and Malok's isnt even effective to train alone till higher level as been stated.. so really the whole topic should be shifted to a post with Alex's Idea because if its the assasinate that has been the big deal then why is this maloks and other bs being put all over forum....

btw if you don't like the assassinate now I wouldn't ask for Malok's being open with the 10% dmg increase thieves get down there...

Edited by Gnarkill, 17 September 2008 - 09:56 PM.

[Defeat]

DJ, I hope you're referring to the cost of training mages as in the token cost because mage are actually very nice gold makers. They're I would think 2nd best gold makers if you train in Hedges. Make 300-350 a kill and you can kill a minimum of 2 usually, then just go to pub and refresh. I made up to 50k an hour with Deceit, even with only 5 stam. Under 29, they don't make near as much, but they still profit.

[-×»ºLätérãlù§º«×-]

gg, that is one thing you have said that i agree with is zerks. if people did dedicate time to zerks I think they could stand a chance again thieves ezpk. but training one is a lot harder than a thief and they cant go far from town, look at nick, he trained hollow that high of a level in the LF... lol.

but yeah, zerks are good and i think they're balanced because all that hard works actually pays off.

[Throwback]

it's always the same thing over and over, something is always overpowered.

usually it gets balanced out, why do you think md went away??

-As for Malok being level restricted, who cares? The area is worthless besides the rare emerald dagger drop, if you train there its BECAUSE your weak. There are many areas far more worthwhile, just as easily solo'd *especially with the readily available dotw*
-As for Malok being opened to any class.... I never was much into the role playing thing but whats the logic in a exclusive thief training area *especially for those thieves who were supposed to have "mastered" there assassinate* being opened up to everyone? The thieves are "masters of their craft" who would dare go down there?
-As for ummmmm my life?? Going good, the freshman girls just moved in this week, school starts in two days, and i just bought my first fixer car, 82' monte carlo, now i just need the time to work on it.
-As for ummmmm staff, doing a great job, just dont take my characters and my money w/o asking next time kk thx.
-As for Ohio State, O-H-I-O, suck it Nicole Penn State is going to get dominated in columbus this year and u need to sign into msn so i can speak my mind

P.S. in the time it took me to write this post, Mr. T pitied 129837465 fools.

[Autek]

Did you see the USC game? gg