20 replies to this topic

[lowmion]

Whilst I'm rehashing the old points I put forward in my previous post, thought this one should be re-aired as well...

17 con = 7 hps per level
18 con = 8 hps per level
19 con = 8 hps per level

Has the world of nightmist changed enough recently to allow mages that have 19con to receive 9 hps/level ?

Or a chance of receiving 9 hps over the standard 8 hps, dependant on the other stats and class attributes.

An max stat elf mage should be stronger in spell casting than a half-elf / human, but not have the same amount of hps as a half-elf / human to withstand physical attacks.

This simple view-point raised a flurry of responses last time including well thoughtout re-workings of stats, and their effects between the different classes of mages.

So what do you all think?

Has Nightmist evolved enough to allow the different mage races to really be a choice, instead of elf & gnome?
Simply because 19 con SHOULD equal a good chance at 9 hps/level..

[Ryuku]

Well, obviously a 284 hp mage would be overpowering, maybe +10hp at lvl 1 and get straight 8s giving them 264? I'm all for that, since gains are random and could get more 9s then 8s giving them too much ;x

[Wind]

Just leave it

Its fine how it is.

[combusta]

theres no fair way to do it besides random between 9 or 8 gains.....but that might give a mage to much hp....so thats out of question, why make a human mage anyway? -2 intel than gnome, and -1 dex....

[lowmion]

Well the reason to make a human or half-elf mage, would be because the -2 intel, -1 dex, - 2 wis, depending which race you compare a human or half-elf against would be evened out by the higher hps, up 284 max at arch.

It's all in the interest of diversity.

Elf = ultimate in spell attack and defense,
18 21 19 18 20 21

Gnome = ultimate in spell attack, high dodge physical attacks,
17 21 20 18 19 18

Half-elf = high in spell attack, high in hps, low in spell defence, (High intel counteracts high con giving a percentage chance of gaining 9 hps for 19 con)
18 20 19 19 19 20

Human = low in spell attack, ultimate in hps, low in spell defence, (low intel + low spell defence gives 9 hps for 19con)
19 19 19 19 19 19



So why shouldnt the all-rounder be exactly that?

[Sneaky]

You honestly think a zerker wouldn't be able to click 284 hp? I've seen zerkers click things with 317 hp unspelled...

[Ryuku]

I seem to remember one of Brians zerks smiting one of ta's old players mages for 253 damage

[Sneaky]

Yeah, and I've attacked people til they were at 1hp too...I fail to see the relevance though.

[combusta]

Kalysta w/ 308hp has been clicked, unspelled zerk, i had 176 armor 20 dex

human mage will get teh poont

[lowmion]

I really dont think that 284hps will make a mage unclickable, nor unfair to the other classes in the game.

but you must admit it would give people second thoughts as to what race they make their future mages.

And that's the whole point, make it an interesting class, not all mages are gnome or elf due to their high related spell attack/defense stats.

People might actually have an incentive to use the other races available....

[MessiahX]

I'm all for it. It'll give people a reason to use those races as mages. Random 9's supported. Theres no way every single mage will get straight 9's.

[lowmion]

Woot another convert, that brings the total in support to ?, erm .....

Should do a poll to find out huh?

[.?.]

..I'd like to see half-elf / human start off with more hp.


I have a human mage and he rocks.

[Crane]

..I'd like to see half-elf / human start off with more hp.


I have a human mage and he rocks.

The way you say that kind of implies that human mages are good enough already.

Since the Beam formula has been changed, Humans with 19 Intelligence now do slightly less damage; a boost in HP would be nice compensation, but that means it would have to apply for Half-Elves as well, and assuming they have the maximum base Intelligence of 20, they are not affected by the Beam change so an HP boost for them might make them unbalanced and totally superior to Humans; then again, the only weakness that Half-Elves have to Humans is their strength, and Mages don't usually need that, so I suppose Half-Elves are already a superior Mage race to Humans.

[lowmion]

/t Crane couldnt that lack of strength in half-elfs translate to a lesser amount of gains in hps ie a percentage chance of 9 hps due to them not having the same physical strength as a human? or doesnt it work like that?

but then again, i'ld be happy just to keep things simple, 19 con = 9 hps would be fine

[joanna]

..I'd like to see half-elf / human start off with more hp.


I have a human mage and he rocks.

The way you say that kind of implies that human mages are good enough already.

Since the Beam formula has been changed, Humans with 19 Intelligence now do slightly less damage; a boost in HP would be nice compensation, but that means it would have to apply for Half-Elves as well, and assuming they have the maximum base Intelligence of 20, they are not affected by the Beam change so an HP boost for them might make them unbalanced and totally superior to Humans; then again, the only weakness that Half-Elves have to Humans is their strength, and Mages don't usually need that, so I suppose Half-Elves are already a superior Mage race to Humans.

Would be nice to see halfelves superior to all other classes at something.

Personally i would like them to get 21 wis, so at least they are the best race in game at one point (ie mana)

Edited by joanna, 08 May 2006 - 08:58 PM.

[Elrik]

..I'd like to see half-elf / human start off with more hp.


I have a human mage and he rocks.

The way you say that kind of implies that human mages are good enough already.

Since the Beam formula has been changed, Humans with 19 Intelligence now do slightly less damage; a boost in HP would be nice compensation, but that means it would have to apply for Half-Elves as well, and assuming they have the maximum base Intelligence of 20, they are not affected by the Beam change so an HP boost for them might make them unbalanced and totally superior to Humans; then again, the only weakness that Half-Elves have to Humans is their strength, and Mages don't usually need that, so I suppose Half-Elves are already a superior Mage race to Humans.

Would be nice to see halfelves superior to all other classes at something.

Personally i would like them to get 21 wis, so at least they are the best race in game at one point (ie mana)

That wouldn't make sense. Half-Elves can't be as wise as Pure-blood elves, as they have Human blood inside them, and Humans just aren't as wise as the elves, if you know where I'm coming from. Its all about the blood.

[lowmion]

/t Elrik

Does that mean that you agree that Half-Elves should have more hps than pure blood Elves ?

because they have that Human part in them?

Edited by lowmion, 09 May 2006 - 05:16 AM.

[Crane]

The general rule is, for any class, that all the races that can follow that path in life have their share of strengths and weaknesses. For example... Human Paladins have more HP and strength than Halflings, but Halflings have more Dexterity and some natural armour. For Mages... Elven Mages can have a higher MP maximum than Gnomes, but Gnomes have higher Dexterity than their Elven counterparts. Human and Half-Elves, by their stats alone, are largely inferior to both Gnomes and Elves. The only strength they have is that they take less time to train due to their +5% and +2.5% experience bonus, but by the time they reach level 30 that is somewhat irrelevant.

The way HP is set up on all classes is that it is dependent on base constitution alone, and changing it so Mages with 19 base constitution gain more HP leaves a new problem... Humans have 19 Constitution and 19 Intelligence, and Half-Elves have 19 Constitution and 20 Intelligence. The lower strength in Half-Elves hardly compares to higher Intelligence and hence more damage (as much as +3 Beam damage for +1 Intelligence). Admittedly, Humans will train faster than Half-Elves, but with a difference of only 2.5% the two races are not too far apart, plus at level 30 it isn't applicable unless you're shooting for the advanced class name of Sorcerer.

[joanna]

..I'd like to see half-elf / human start off with more hp.


I have a human mage and he rocks.

The way you say that kind of implies that human mages are good enough already.

Since the Beam formula has been changed, Humans with 19 Intelligence now do slightly less damage; a boost in HP would be nice compensation, but that means it would have to apply for Half-Elves as well, and assuming they have the maximum base Intelligence of 20, they are not affected by the Beam change so an HP boost for them might make them unbalanced and totally superior to Humans; then again, the only weakness that Half-Elves have to Humans is their strength, and Mages don't usually need that, so I suppose Half-Elves are already a superior Mage race to Humans.

Would be nice to see halfelves superior to all other classes at something.

Personally i would like them to get 21 wis, so at least they are the best race in game at one point (ie mana)

That wouldn't make sense. Half-Elves can't be as wise as Pure-blood elves, as they have Human blood inside them, and Humans just aren't as wise as the elves, if you know where I'm coming from. Its all about the blood.

They would carry the *combined* wisdom of both the Human and Elven races in thier blood.

[lowmion]

Nice point about the combined wisdom of races.

Does that mean you're another convert?