36 replies to this topic

[Rappy_Ninja]

gg

[Exor]

haha or not

edit: Yeah thats fair!...not...whats more powerful?alot of armor on a druid or a pally with divine/holy/champs lmao

edit:2 Stop bitching about druids.They sucked so hard on this game up until a year or so ago lol

Edited by Exor, 28 October 2004 - 09:05 PM.

[Rappy_Ninja]

haha or not

edit: Yeah thats fair!...not...whats more powerful?alot of armor on a druid or a pally with divine/holy/champs lmao

edit:2 Stop bitching about druids.They sucked so hard on this game up until a year or so ago lol

just then maybe they will be able to hit for something and be feared ?

pallys = hardest class to train

they are still good but they are screwed and used about as often as mages were before update

+ the dex spells dont work well really

in reality holy speed = about +2 dex mod spell maybe

Edited by Rappy_Ninja, 28 October 2004 - 09:17 PM.

[Exor]

pallys are pretty easy to train to me..

[Rappy_Ninja]

anythings "easy" to train just some are more easy then others ?

pallys = 5k per stamina stam regain 3

clerics = 8-9k per stam stam regain 4

fighters = 4k per stam and 4 stamina regain

druids = like 6k per stam

mages = ez training now

pacis = rofl uber ez you cant even be pked!

thieves = more ez to train


all are easier to train then pallys and are far more rewarding ? cept maybe fighters


I never think "crap! a master pally in that team I better not pk him
but I do stop to think ehh a mage I better be careful

Edited by Rappy_Ninja, 28 October 2004 - 09:26 PM.

[Crane]

Druids can stack their armour spells because, unlike Mages, the spells are fairly different relative to each other... that is, Druids have Thornshield (a barrier of thorns), Stoneform (changing their skin to be like stone) and Gaea's Blessing (a blessing from a deity). Mage's 4 armour spells involve manipulating mana around the Mage's aura, so you can't really stack them (and you can't now).

Paladins do not have armour spells, they have stat-boosting spells... allowing them to stack spells will totally unbalance the game. Think about it, my own Paladin, Crane, will be running around with 28 or 29 Strength and Dexterity. No!

Paladins are best trained by themselves rather than in a group, in my opinion - they are perhaps the most self-sufficient class in the game.

[Rappy_Ninja]

Druids can stack their armour spells because, unlike Mages, the spells are fairly different relative to each other... that is, Druids have Thornshield (a barrier of thorns), Stoneform (changing their skin to be like stone) and Gaea's Blessing (a blessing from a deity).  Mage's 4 armour spells involve manipulating mana around the Mage's aura, so you can't really stack them (and you can't now).

Paladins do not have armour spells, they have stat-boosting spells... allowing them to stack spells will totally unbalance the game.  Think about it, my own Paladin, Crane, will be running around with 28 or 29 Strength and Dexterity.  No!

Paladins are best trained by themselves rather than in a group, in my opinion - they are perhaps the most self-sufficient class in the game.

maybe not all 3 stat spells
but maybe add a new spell with +10 ac +3 str and dex and maybe make it a boss drop ? sort of a improved divine prayer

or being able to cast 2 spells at a time like champs / holy speed

atm pallies are plain pathetic
hard to train
suck in partys
they dont get anything unique

triplex/1v1 is ALL they are good for

it seems being able to cast say 2 spells or adding hte o ne I listed above would balance them out

or give htem more hp... a better weapon... just ANYTHING

Edited by Rappy_Ninja, 28 October 2004 - 09:31 PM.

[Crane]

Paladins act best as party leaders if you are to have them in a party. And really, they can use the best weapons already (apart from the Halberd). Paladins are hard because they have a poor hit rate, which is made up for their armour and ther Dexterity boosting and heal spells. Try training off the undead monsters during the low-levels.

P.S. Holy Speed seems unique enough for Paladins to me.

[Rappy_Ninja]

Paladins act best as party leaders if you are to have them in a party. And really, they can use the best weapons already (apart from the Halberd). Paladins are hard because they have a poor hit rate, which is made up for their armour and ther Dexterity boosting and heal spells. Try training off the undead monsters during the low-levels.

P.S. Holy Speed seems unique enough for Paladins to me.

not when the + dex only functions as about +1-2 dex and it says it does +6 ?

[Crane]

It does +6 for Crane. It is probably dependant on a stat or your current level or something.

[Rappy_Ninja]

It does +6 for Crane.  It is probably dependant on a stat or your current level or something.

no what I mean was

it says it does +6 dex


but the +6 dex only works as about +2 for what it actually does


edit: I know my pally stuff I am the pally master

Edited by Rappy_Ninja, 28 October 2004 - 09:47 PM.

[Tom]

yes dex from spells doesnt seem to work as it should

[Crane]

Paladins have a poor hit rate anyway. The extra Dexterity helps them to dodge enemy attack, but I do agree it does not do much for hitting back.

[Thunderja]

I actually agree with this. Vagabond is long since retired since I got arch clerics. Will he get back in my main party? No cause his stats are nuts. Will I purchase or train a pally if this was put in? no but it would give die hard pally fans something to look foward too.

[jurian]

i think it wouldn't be that bad really cuz pallys suck to train. but may i suggest you use the suggestions forum next time?

[Tom]

im pritty much in agreement with this, like ive said before pallys should be damn hard to kill b/c of effort to train so using 3 stam to get 30str/30dex seems ok,

ive noticed even when pallys have got top equipts going (not rares) they seem to be very weak hittin/dodgin/healing

[Exodia]

lol pallys suck end of story, btw rappy, they do have a "new weapon" /library sovereign sword, because they are a crossbreed of fighter/cleric, they can equip almost same exact weapons as a fighter (besides halberd), so they have a new weapon, and with eiko with champs/enhance i almost rounded old intensity =p

[Drac]

Im sorry, but I have to agree with rappy...

Maybe this, coupled with some other mods, paladins can kill things like all the other classes can.. lol..

btw, this belongs in the PALADIN THREAD

[Deathwish]

It gets more attention here.. But back on topic, I gave away all my pallies. They do suck mostly but are ok in pvp duels.

[jurian]

pfft when is the last time a pally won triplex or a mosh? they suck and this would help. and this thread would either belong in improvements or suggestions

[Kalypso]

Sorry Exor, but "druids sucking for a long time" doesn't justify them being overpowered now. Same goes for mages.



I actually agree with SOME paladin spells being stacked.

[jurian]

gah moved to pally discussion i so do not agree that it belongs there ^^

[Squee]

To ride abroad redressing human wrongs,
To speak no slander, no, nor listen to it,
To honour his own word as if his god's,
To lead sweet lives in purest chastity,
To love one maiden only [...]
And worship her by years of noble deeds...

-credo of the Knights of the Round Table (Alfred, Lord Tennyson, The Idylls of the King)

Fine, make Paladins strong; make them the strongest class but make them abide by the rules lest they become common fighters.

(By no means am I saying that the Knights of the Round Table and Nightmistian Paladins the same but I am saying that the Paladin-brotherhood in Nightmist require rules in order to keep their power in check. The less powerful a Paladin, the less rules they will abide by and vice versa.)

[Rappy_Ninja]

add plz


+ seeing as other classes have been getting updates I think its only fair that pallys then fighters outta get a update and be balanced

[Rappy_Ninja]

lol pallys suck end of story, btw rappy, they do have a "new weapon" /library sovereign sword, because they are a crossbreed of fighter/cleric, they can equip almost same exact weapons as a fighter (besides halberd), so they have a new weapon, and with eiko with champs/enhance i almost rounded old intensity =p

whoop de do anything can almost round zerkers equiped

I mean the bottem line is seeing as mages came back from the grave and are overpowered I think pallies should get something to compete with druids/mages and since they are loads harder to train outta be most rewarding

[Gaddy]

Well if you say that druids are overpowered and that is a reason to overpower pallys---you are basically only referring to PvP...In which case a druid gets hit for very little due to high ac spells.
A pally can heal..so I don't really see a huge problem there, they are very good 1v1, and don't even try to argue against that cause you've said so a billion times. So increasing their 1v1 skill isn't going to help them as a class.---which is all that spell stacking would help them with imo, but whatever, if you want that kind of solution, it won't bother me. It won't help most pallys either though.

Druids are not that great at bosses and such and eventually start to leech out mana. They are pretty crappy to train between levels 18 and 25. The only really good reason to have them with trips is their nourish; that is basically just because of how much harder thirst and hunger hit now. Other than nourish it'd be a lot better to take a ranger or pally---as an additional healer or more damage to the boss/monsters.


Eitherway, I don't see how spell stacking will help pallys become more useful in parties. I think if you want to actually improve them and make more people want to play them, you'll have to make them hit monsters more often.

Saying pallys are the hardest class to train is ridiculous. They heal for more than elf clerics to level 18, and they might still get more mana than clerics (I know they used to get 352mp at arch). They are not nearly as difficult as a mage, druid, or fighter. They have pretty steady easy training by healing or hitting--so they can train anywhere. Clerics are very very easy after level 18 as long as you've got other crits to help them out by taking hits and healing so they save stam for training. Low level rangers blow, but become fairly easy after rapid fire. Thieves become annoying once you take them out of the swamps because their damage per round is usually the lowest out of any class, but they are the fastest to get to level 26...aside from maybe zerks...who are easy all the way through as far as I've seen. (I've only trained 4 or 6 zerks to expert+ though I suppose).

Anyway, I don't see difficulty to train as a good reason to make a class overly-powerful.

[Sean]

OOOO NICE add plz

[Gaddy]

As for people too lazy to read my whole post, I didn't say pallys don't need to be improved. I said that stacking spells wouldn't help them very much. It would just make them a little bit stronger in 1v1s and 3v3s, which they don't even need.

They need to hit monsters for more damage, or they need a spell that allows them to heal for something like 80 (like a Consecrated Embrace type of spell--not stackable, but castable on any crit--so they could cast it on fighting crits in their party to make them hit undead for more---I guess you could make it stack with CE if you wanted, but I think it'd make clerics and pallys end up doing WAY too much heal damage).
As for the exp chart done by Rappy, he trained the pally in rax without any spells.
He trained the cleric with holy might and CE---I think in zeum, but may have been in rax also.
Wouldn't tell me if the other classes had enhance when he checked their exp gains per use of stam.
He wouldn't tell me where he took them, I think probably the desert or he just guessed at what the exp was.
I'm also pretty sure that the crits had different types of equips, stats, and obviously different spells on them. I don't think the exp chart of stam use he made is accurate at all, simply highly skewed.

Eitherway, stacking spells wouldn't make pallys train faster or more useful at bosses, which is the point I've been trying to stress. Make pallys useful instead of simply making them a little better in a 1v1 or 3v3 (which they would still have weaknesses in and run mana faster). Make them hit for more or have spells they can cast on party members so that they make sense to use. Possibly take away the RF spell in PvP---that'd make pallys highly wanted. I wouldn't say taking RF away on monsters would be good, but making it so that RF doesn't help if you are attacking a player (have it wear off or something, for your actions not being righteous).

[DragonHeart]

paladins are pretty easy to train imo,i trained mine from 1-18 on skels,then 18-28 on bats then 28-30 in the dungeons,but yeah they do need a lil something to spice em up

[Sean]

As for people too lazy to read my whole post, I didn't say pallys don't need to be improved. I said that stacking spells wouldn't help them very much. It would just make them a little bit stronger in 1v1s and 3v3s, which they don't even need.

They need to hit monsters for more damage, or they need a spell that allows them to heal for something like 80 (like a Consecrated Embrace type of spell--not stackable, but castable on any crit--so they could cast it on fighting crits in their party to make them hit undead for more---I guess you could make it stack with CE if you wanted, but I think it'd make clerics and pallys end up doing WAY too much heal damage).
As for the exp chart done by Rappy, he trained the pally in rax without any spells.
He trained the cleric with holy might and CE---I think in zeum, but may have been in rax also.
Wouldn't tell me if the other classes had enhance when he checked their exp gains per use of stam.
He wouldn't tell me where he took them, I think probably the desert or he just guessed at what the exp was.
I'm also pretty sure that the crits had different types of equips, stats, and obviously different spells on them. I don't think the exp chart of stam use he made is accurate at all, simply highly skewed.

Eitherway, stacking spells wouldn't make pallys train faster or more useful at bosses, which is the point I've been trying to stress. Make pallys useful instead of simply making them a little better in a 1v1 or 3v3 (which they would still have weaknesses in and run mana faster). Make them hit for more or have spells they can cast on party members so that they make sense to use. Possibly take away the RF spell in PvP---that'd make pallys highly wanted. I wouldn't say taking RF away on monsters would be good, but making it so that RF doesn't help if you are attacking a player (have it wear off or something, for your actions not being righteous).

Add both of these then people would stop saying zerks are overpowered and will start flaming pallies