12 replies to this topic

[brewcrew]

Just a couple random thoughts on some balance etc in 1alt.

 

 

End game scenarios,

 

With newer berserker gear, GM dwarf zerks can have 20 dex which with their hit rate (especially pvp) causes them to be a very good foil with mages in pvp. 

 

Just a thought for some balance: Mages recently had a -1 overall int nerf for their end game gear. What if Staff of light had an added intel mod bringing it to a +2 int mod weapon, would cause more people to grind out the crafting items for it. Obviously this brings mages back to having 33 intel at 40, but 2 of the intel mods are either extremely time consuming (staff of light), or require high luck for an area that is not done much (aetherium paragon).

Even with an added int, the increased damage is like 15 to 20 damage per full stam round would still make zerks overpower mages, but would give an added item to grind out that would help with some training buffs etc.

 

With the grind required to get a +6 ac boost vs dragon wand, this would increase the drive of players to make this end game item. Even with the Crystal Caves, it is an extreme time sink to craft and would grant it more relevance and create more interest in the item. Just a thought!

Edited by brewcrew, 19 May 2022 - 08:12 PM.

[Stig]

The problem I have is that Mages have a lot of Intelligence modifiers as it is and their damage is generally much more consistent, although yes, Berserkers tend to be a foil for Mages due to their massive health pool and damage output.  It's where Mage armour comes into play actually because +5 (not +6... it's 2 vs. -3) coupled with Aura of Protection adds up quite a bit.  Armour does give passive damage reduction even in the face of Smite and Rapid Fire etc, so buffing this where you can starts to pay dividends.

 

The Dragon Wand was originally developed to be a more accessible replacement for the Staff of Light, which could be an argument for or against giving +2 to the latter.

I will let you in on a secret though, which might never come to pass because it depends on JLH willing to implement it.  I've been trying to get Devastate reworked to be a more tactical spell - if it is successfully implemented, it is likely that Mages will be able to face Berserkers more directly - it's also a scenario where I would be willing to give +2 Int mods again.

[brewcrew]

Understandable with the amount of stat mods in game for all classes now, 

 

I have a couple other ideas as well that might help balance+ interest in obscure items/ end game items you might take a look at.

 

1. Remove the intel mod from astralite signet for a couple reasons, and add the int mod back for talaskan gaunts or add it to staff of light. Reasons: 1 from a role play perspective noone really takes mages into swamps, so its hard to justify someone leveling a mage going on a hydra body kill party. This also buffs the end game mage gaunts back to former glory, or it again makes a super lengthy craft more alluring.

 

2. maybe add a dex mod on staff of light as well, just to give it a little more bang for the buck in terms of pve and pvp with the dex+ armor mods ( i know base dex really is the only thing that matters for pve.

 

 

just some thoughts?

[Stig]

You got roleplay and gameplay back-to-front.  In terms of roleplay, there's nothing against taking a mage to fight the Hydra - if anything, it should receive increased damage from Flame, but the engine is limited in that regard.  Additionally, in terms of the area's story, Baltor was an archmage and was the one who buffed the Great Axe used by Ariat... to symbolise this, the Astralite Signet was owned by Baltor.  The main gameplay reason why the Astralite Signet is so strong is that there really is no other reason to fight the Hydra Body.

I've got a lot of things to think about, hmmm.

[brewcrew]

I guess I am not that big into the lore, I like astralite signet, but would rather see it being a wis and charisma ring. My main point about it is that I hate seeing end game items be nerfed with an addition of an item like the signet. I definitely understand the want to balance the amount of intel gear out there (i understand it more now than i did months ago). Editing signet and adding it back to the more difficult item would keep the overall max intell the same while putting the stat mods where I believe they are more deserved. Thanks for discussing

 

 

Edit: so after discussing on this thread my stance has shifted: I lean more towards nerfing signet to something else and reverting talaskan gauntlets lol.

 

proposal about signet: what if it was a dex and wisdom mod ring? just thoughts lol

Edited by brewcrew, 21 May 2022 - 03:10 PM.

[Banishment]

I guess I am not that big into the lore, I like astralite signet, but would rather see it being a wis and charisma ring. My main point about it is that I hate seeing end game items be nerfed with an addition of an item like the signet. I definitely understand the want to balance the amount of intel gear out there (i understand it more now than i did months ago). Editing signet and adding it back to the more difficult item would keep the overall max intell the same while putting the stat mods where I believe they are more deserved. Thanks for discussing

 

 

Edit: so after discussing on this thread my stance has shifted: I lean more towards nerfing signet to something else and reverting talaskan gauntlets lol.

 

proposal about signet: what if it was a dex and wisdom mod ring? just thoughts lol

Pking you later for this. Signet is fine as it is imo, unless you want Gladiator with 21 dex clicking your mage 100% of the time.

 

Personally I would prefer fewer Int gear and lower wisdom on the majority of monsters/bosses, this would also stop mages from 4stamming everything that isn't a zerk.  Elderglow Potions have helped mages greatly but they aren't enough, it's the only class that has to spend 7k on an inventory of potions just to train on a few mobs before having to spend another 7k, which I think would justify lowering monster wisdom and giving them more areas to play in.  An alternative to end game Int gear could be better AC gear, allowing mages with AOP to sit on monsters without having to spend 40mp invising every round.

 

Yes mages damage unlike other classes is more consistent, but other classes however have tons of mod weapons.

Edited by Banishment, 21 May 2022 - 06:36 PM.

[Stig]

This one is proving difficult to balance and get right, as unfortunately there has been a bit of a power creep and the game was never designed for levels 31 to 40 (Devastate's damage doesn't increase with level, for example), but other classes get massive increases to hit rate and overall damage.

 

As I've hinted at before, I really want Devastate to be reworked - all of the proposed equations have been sitting on the staff forum for a while now, but it needs JLH to actually code it, and the game hasn't been updated in a while (some of this is down to technical difficulties since he needs a Windows XP virtual machine to modify and compile the code).

 

Armour has to be kept low on Mages because of Aura of Protection and JLH's rules.  Remember that if you hit 250, you are essentially invulnerable to regular attacks, and Aura of Protection multiplies your current armour count by 2.5 (which means you only need 100 base armour).  Granted, things like the Black Robes and Perfect Amethyst Ring that sacrifice armour for Intelligence help somewhat.

[Banishment]

I guess I just don't understand why it's just mages that can only be one or the other. Meanwhile a 40 ranger with 27 str and 22 dex is doing this (Could have 29 strength if I had the gear)

 

You rapidly fired at a Wolf with your Bow of Artemis for 80 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Wolf with your Bow of Artemis for 114 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Wolf with your Bow of Artemis for 83 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Wolf with your Bow of Artemis for 75 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Wolf with your Bow of Artemis for 52 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Wolf with your Bow of Artemis for 130 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Wolf with your Bow of Artemis for 93 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Wolf with your Bow of Artemis for 122 points of damage.

Gaining 97hp from this round aswell, Bow of Artemis not being the strongest weapon either.

 

Or this

 

You rapidly fired at a Bandit Leader with your Avenger's Crossbow for 212 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Bandit Leader with your Avenger's Crossbow for 244 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Bandit Leader with your Avenger's Crossbow for 136 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Bandit Leader with your Avenger's Crossbow for 102 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Bandit Leader with your Avenger's Crossbow for 246 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Bandit Leader with your Avenger's Crossbow for 174 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Bandit Leader with your Avenger's Crossbow for 86 points of damage.

You rapidly fired at a Bandit Leader with your Avenger's Crossbow for 210 points of damage.

 

compared to Varien 29 int, 140 ac with aop

 

You raise your hand out creating a devastating blast, injuring a Wolf for 116 points of damage.

You summon a beam of pure light, blinding a Wolf for 102 points of damage.

You raise your hand out creating a devastating blast, injuring a Bandit for 119 points of damage.

You summon a beam of pure light, blinding a Bandit for 103 points of damage.

 

Would be nice to have mages with high end gear with at least 170 ac with aop, allowing them to sit on mobs without having to invis every regen.

 

 

Edited by Banishment, 22 May 2022 - 06:06 PM.

[Nerve]

Armour has to be kept low on Mages because of Aura of Protection and JLH's rules.  Remember that if you hit 250, you are essentially invulnerable to regular attacks, and Aura of Protection multiplies your current armour count by 2.5 (which means you only need 100 base armour).  Granted, things like the Black Robes and Perfect Amethyst Ring that sacrifice armour for Intelligence help somewhat.

Well Druids can get over 200 ac (with Gaeas Blessing)with ease, we arent even asking for that much, mages already have so much gear that keeps ac low. I think something around 170 with AoP shouldnt be game breaking.

Take Glacial crown for example -10 ac thats a 25 ac hit with AoP Id rather use nothing then have that and +1 int and have to run back to town because of being out of pots or invis training. Inflation of intelligence doesnt have to keep going up if wisdom of monsters is worked on, mages are still very limited to where we can train due to either getting trashed monsters or doing next to no damage to them because of wisdom.

Also, Still waiting on that thief mod weapon like Dragonclaw scythe since they are never getting reverted.

Edited by Nerve, 23 May 2022 - 05:03 AM.

[Stig]

Generally Druids can get pretty high AC briefly with Stoneform and Thornshield, and then fall back to 120 to 130 or so when under Gaea's Blessing, then it becomes a strategic choice whether you use moderately damaging spells, or morph, where you're at the mercy of enemy armour absorption.

Glacial Crown was originally -40ac - aah, those were the days!

 

I have to be careful and cannot rush anything because I've done damage before, like the aforementioned Thief nerf.  In the meantime I'm trying something experimental with the new Mage weapon that you can buy if you can find the shop.  I had a couple of players test it out beforehand and I'm curious to see how well in functions in the long-term.

[Nerve]

Rush? Thief nerf happened before I started 1a nearly a decade ago I think. 2012ish I think Im not 100% as I didnt start 1a til 2013. Played main til 2007 so big gap there.

I just want something that will help thief Damage, cause atm it would more damage to bring a zerk with hands then a thief.

But yeah Im not asking anything to be rushed just would like to see some thief love since all other classes either perform better and have got somewhat recent changes/additions.

[Terron]

mages should focus on all ac to fight zerker's smite, not massive damage.  thinks like pendant of light and boots of time,  make the most of aop and they wont 1 shot you

[Crane]

Something else to touch on that's similar... at high levels, Fighters can often round Mages too because of Critical Strike.  When a Critical Strike is not performed, extra armour can go a long way, but the chance of it triggering is a moot point if the hit doesn't land, so one should also consider equipping Dexterity modifers where possible, like Valkyrian Boots for footwear (the -1 Dex of Boots of Time make them dangerous against Fighters and a risky trade-off against Berserkers) and Spider Gauntlets or Talaskan Gauntlets if you have them, both of which also provide a significant armour advantage.

 

One major change is that the Staff of Light now gives +1 to everything, Dexterity included, giving credence to the soul-crushingly-long-to-craft weapon, but if you are too far away from acquiring the required Flawless Crystal Shard, there is also that new Mage weapon that might help out in this case if you can afford to sacrifice the Intelligence modifier of the Dragon Wand or Staff of Light.