27 replies to this topic

[Oldwin]

I know this will get ridiculed, but, I think NM is a nearly dead horse... Anyone actually stopped to compare some of the total user infp from now, and back say, 1-2 years ago? On a NORMAL Online game, the numbers would have doubled since then till now... NM is not at like 40% the player volume, that is was just 1 year ago... (I know, I've been gone for a year, and just getting returning). I gave my crits to someone before I left, not knowing for sure if I would actually play again. Now that I HAVE returned, I see WHY I left... and things seem to have only gotten worse.. It seems, almost all of the more recent 'improvements' to the game, are actually focused AGAINST new players... that is exactly the opposite, of the way a game should be run...... it should be encouraging new players to play, not making it nearly impossible to learn, and play. It just seems, that all the 'main' players in NM, are turning into the equivelant of 'gray old men' sitting around a campfire..... Maybe its just my opinion... Players have to leave the game from time to time, its a fact of life, if you don't reacquire new players to take their place, you lose the total player base... Like right now, 9:40PM (Eastern US time), at this time of day, 1 year ago, there would be 70-100 'players' online... there are 81 characters online, (36 users) at this moment....
I know there are a lot of the older players, who will swear up and down against that... Heck, even a couple of the more recent changes, are driven to the exact opposite of atracting new players (like the 10 level difference attack range..... come one, 10 level 20 alts, stand absolutely 0 chance, against 1 arch..... come on..). But, ehh, o well. Even the mention of a post like this, will probably get deleted within a couple hours..... lol

[Sneaky]

stop beating it, let it go peacefully.

Edited by Sneaky, 01 June 2006 - 02:06 AM.

[Oldwin]

Well, I saw many things before I left before, and I still see most of those same 'problems'. Where the problem comes in, is, that if the same problems occur with NM2... it will wind up the same fate as NM1.... Wouldn't you agree?

[Gnarkill]

so you would rather have it as it started in the fact lvl 30s could kill lvl 1's in "old nm" instead of not being able to kill or be killed till lvl 5 (giving new players a chance to learn a bit) and have a 10 level cap so arches cannot kill anything under a lvl 20, IMO honestly this helps new players rather then not, and if you cannot use 10 lvl 20s to kill a arch you do infact need to rethink strategies and try again its what keeps the game fun, I remember having a party of adepts-experts as my best crits not all that long ago and I still put up a fight and sometimes won against arches, most of the skill and strategies are in the user. granted a party of lvl 20s would get owned by a party of arches unless its a user who isnt very good at fighting on the arches.

IMO they have done stuff to help new players I.E:

1. the level cap giving them a chance to learn a bit ebfore they can get killed
2. the new tutorial you have to go through on a fresh crit
3. moving petes so new players didn't get slagged/see the verbal abuse others do to eachother right when they enter
4. they are now making more events, areas and quests then they did when i started ..some geared to higher level or more experienced players but some as simple as hide and seek or roulette where anyone stands a chance.
5. moving the most of the "old grey players" to NGH instead of SGH where new players tend to train getting pk'd and discouraged.


My final thought is if you dont come on to play a game where there is everything from sitters to go getters and have some fun no matter what happens and realize it is just a game and nothing to slag the makers/staff for by saying its a dead horse then don't play. I know for a fact myself and lots of others still enjoy the game or we wouldn't be here.

Edited by Gnarkill, 01 June 2006 - 03:32 AM.

[Oldwin]

1: The level cap has not always been: 'any level' or as it is now '10 levels'. There have been other ranges of attack, used to be 5 (know that, since I enjoyed walking up to arch's in IT, with a level 24 cleric, knowing they couldn't touch him, unless they had 29's or lower).
2: What does the tutorial have to do with attracting new players? Its the Retention of players, that adds to a player base, not thier initial 'welcome'.
3: Who cares about the location of Pete's? As if they were a new player, no one would have been able to attack them anyway, until level 5 regardless.
4: Right, more 1 alt level 1-30 moshes. Last few times I looked, I didn't see anyone win/lose in a mosh, that wasn't level 28 or higher... that isn't exactly an 'event' for a new player, now is it?
5: SGH: Err... I've seen a few 1-10's train at SGH, very rarely anything other than that (except, Pally's/Clerics/Paci's, for undead reasons) (besides, the Guardian spider in the meadows is the best Exp monster anywhere near the starting town of NM, and any player who at least has a cleric, would go there to train new crits, which, is where the pain of the magimox come in.. destroying that chance..)

The whole point of this, is to point out the facts, that NM, is losing players. Whether the "sitters to go getters" like it or not. Its pretty darn hard to train anywhere nowadays. I've been to IT about 6 times, since returning, and didn't manage to use up 1 full charge of mana YET, before getting PK'd (and I do train in the isolated portion of the tunnel, and I do move quickly, as I never use up all stam.... but still, manage to get assassinated, or smited from a invis'd zerker within about 4 minutes time.....).

Its not meant as a 'slag' to the makers of the game. If it 'had' been, there would have been more posts directed at the 'quality' or something. Its just a matter of, all the newer aspects of the game, pretty much focus all their efforts on the existing, long term player base, and not on new players.

The fact of the matter, players leave the game from time to time. RL often times sticks its nose into places we don't always like for it to be. For every player that has to leave, if there isn't at least 3-4 new players to replace them (as most would not continue to play anyway, for other reasons), there would be a negative player growth.... Pretty soon, it would wind up as 10-20 players remaining...

[Rappy_Ninja]

isnt there a thing where if you page gaddy/stadius he will take you places and nuts ? I wish I had something like that when I started


edit: there isnt many nice players on this game but if you talk to the right people some would be more than happy to help/train with you

Edited by Rappy_Ninja, 01 June 2006 - 04:09 AM.

[Oldwin]

isnt there a thing where if you page gaddy/stadius he will take you places and nuts ? I wish I had something like that when I started


edit: there isnt many nice players on this game but if you talk to the right people some would be more than happy to help/train with you

Not sure what you are referring to there.

Edit:
Its not the fact of having someone assist, its the fact of this game has turn into a text based first person shooter, rather than a RPG... its pretty much mainly about killing other players, and not the Role Playing part....

Edited by Oldwin, 01 June 2006 - 04:13 AM.

[Rappy_Ninja]

my point is you act like its all hard to train now when you can have a staffer with a party of like 10 6stat crits with full eq to take you around nm and train with you if you need help in some areas


also only 5-8 people on this game actively pk just learn who they are and train when they are offline there used to be WAY more active pkers back in the day


if I could get one of the best accounts ingame when I started on dialup and a terrible comp with a level 1 I am sure you should be able to manage something

Edited by Rappy_Ninja, 01 June 2006 - 04:15 AM.

[Oldwin]

Well, I've never heard of any system like that. If I haven't heard of it (and I have probably been 'semi-retired' longer than I actually played), its hard to expect a new player to know it instinctively... Regardless, depending on someone, doesn't exactly help you learn the game, it just focuses the dependancy on the trainer.
I am not sure about you, but I have not found a single area in NM (thats PK'able), that I have not been PK'd while training in (most of the time, repeatedly, or extremely quickly during arrival). Just about any area over 20exp POD, will have some PK'er or another, passing through (invis of course), about every 10-20 minutes..
(on the rare occassion, the peoples/objects list, will flicker, when invis crits walk on square.. its hard to catch, I thought was a fluke, until I was assassinated a few times.... but, I've seen them.. and invis'd quiet a few of them... they always page me after.... asking how I knew...)

[Rappy_Ninja]

just be smart and logoff for 10-20 minutes if you get pked

if you go to the same area twice they will just go back for you go somewhere else after 10 minutes

[Exodia]

since when was there a 5 lvl nopk thing?

[Shaginator]

I havent played much in the last say 2 months. But I can tell you this, all the crying about pking is sad. Ive never claimed to be the best player or have the best crits because I surely dont. I CAN however say that before I took a break due to internet issues I trained fairly regularly and I went a few MONTHS without being pk'd. This is for two reasons. Because I varied where I trained and stayed out of the infamous pk spots. And secondly because im not a complete arse to eveyone that plays. I have alot of friends ingame, and for the most part im nice to most people. So if they see me out on 2 arches and 5 experts, when they are on 15 arches...guess who doesnt get attacked. Like it or not a large majority of this game IS based on player vs player combat, not roleplaying. And im sure the playerbase has declined slightly and may even continue to. But I know ALOT of people that have left that are genuinely looking forward to NM2 and will definatley return when it comes into play. Maybe some of the same problems will exist, but its a game. Its supposed to be somewhat challenging.

Edited by Shaginator, 01 June 2006 - 04:43 AM.

[Socrates]

Oldwin, the only dead horse is the one your beating. This same topic has come up to many times to count. On a second note, how can you just come back and already be saying the game is filth when you have not fully experienced it since when you quit?

[Oldwin]

since when was there a 5 lvl nopk thing?

Error Message for attacking with a 5+ on a lower than 5 crit:
You can't attack players who have not reached level 5.

(Same general message for other way around, says you can't attack other players until you are level 5)

[Oldwin]

Oldwin, the only dead horse is the one your beating. This same topic has come up to many times to count. On a second note, how can you just come back and already be saying the game is filth when you have not fully experienced it since when you quit?

I never said the game was filth. You are the only one that mentions that, anywhere in this thread.
I've been back for about a month or so, and the whole point of what I said, was, that all the reasons I had to leave in the first place, not only remain, but have gotten worse. The game is 99.9% focused on the old, longer termed players, and not around the new players. but, you can say whatever you want, or think whatever you want.. it makes little difference either way...

People will always read into threads as they want to. As its been posted on several threads (I like the one about the paci's, so funny), people will go absolutely out of their way, to keep things the way things are going. Exp: Paci's/GP. Why are so many people against GP? Well, it stops players from attacking other players (main purpose, its probably the main reason they want the GP removed, not for the reasons they 'post' about...).
Another example:
One concept that will never get implemented: Damage based on player kills (from Pally discussion). Spell that causes PK's / Death's times other values formula. It will never happen, why? Because those who would stand the most to lose, would be the ones that are causing the problems, to the people who are wanting the change to occur. Its a vicious cycle.
Theif's/Druid's/Zerker's being 'over-powered'
There are always a few threads regarding that. If the thought of underpowering a thief were to come around, everyone who PK's with 10-15 thiefs would raise high heaven. Same for Druid's/Zerk's.
Its a vicious, neverending cycle.
But, you know what? THATS THE FREAKING PROBLEM!

I havent played much in the last say 2 months. But I can tell you this, all the crying about pking is sad. Ive never claimed to be the best player or have the best crits because I surely dont. I CAN however say that before I took a break due to internet issues I trained fairly regularly and I went a few MONTHS without being pk'd. This is for two reasons. Because I varied where I trained and stayed out of the infamous pk spots. And secondly because im not a complete arse to eveyone that plays. I have alot of friends ingame, and for the most part im nice to most people. So if they see me out on 2 arches and 5 experts, when they are on 15 arches...guess who doesnt get attacked. Like it or not a large majority of this game IS based on player vs player combat, not roleplaying. And im sure the playerbase has declined slightly and may even continue to. But I know ALOT of people that have left that are genuinely looking forward to NM2 and will definatley return when it comes into play. Maybe some of the same problems will exist, but its a game. Its supposed to be somewhat challenging.

Shag.. Don't you see ^^, thats the whole point. Many are leaving, but plan to come back, when NM2 comes around. If the same series of events happens... the exact same thing will happen to it. Some get tired of the same old thing, or get tired of playing the same old thing.

[Ryuku]

You're very ignorant. It'll take more than a few months to experience the game completely, especially if you're just starting out.

NM is an economy, but it's missing 1 thing that an economy has, a steady flow of new life and life dying (or in this case, quitting). Admins cannot influence this without large ammount of money, which the creator doesn't do, wether to say he can, I'm not sure. Players advertise the game to others, which I actually do once in awhile.

And no, GP stops a person from attacking players "and" monsters, which is why people dislike it. Lesser pact makes only players not attack you, that's why greater pact is greater. When players go to a boss and get GP'd they cannot attack the boss, that's the reason people dislike it, so what you claim is untrue and really it just makes you look like a moron to say that.

Edit: To your arguement of people saying thieves are overpowered, they aren't, they're underpowered, since they are, people abuse their special ability of being able to hide and use them for pking. How can I prove this? Because people have also abused a huge party of druids and mages alone because they can hide, people just use thieves more because they're cheaper, easier to train, and their ability to hide never runs out. The only class that isn't balanced is zerkers, when RF takes away their disadvantage and makes them able to kill any crit in 1 round.

Edited by Ryuku, 01 June 2006 - 06:21 AM.

[Raylen]

I think JLH should make it so we get koinzs if we get new players to play.

Edited by Raylen, 01 June 2006 - 06:29 AM.

[JLH]

lol, nightmist makes no money.

[Äññöÿäñcë]

Or make NM1 p2p

Dude, you say 10x level 20 crits can't take down one arch? Right - learn the game before you pregnant dog about it..

[Pandilex]

I think no alts will cure all our problems on nightmist 2, and it will hopefully be like the good old days.

Sadly I have a lot of work right now so progress is slow, but things should pick up eventually.

[eclypse]

as always, you people take this post way off topic, the man was talking about how nightmist is dead compaired to what it use to be like, and i agree 100% this game is dying, even tho its lived a pretty fair life for a texted based game. we really dont have ANYTHING to attract new players... we dont even have advertisements.... hopefully nm2 will advertise more, or should i say... advertise period....

[Redheart]

I have seen new players to the game do really well. If you are motivated and make friends, People will give you hints and help you along. You have to be willing to learn and explore and take risks.
There still are many of the older players that will take the time to help new players get started.
Recently a new player came along and arched several druids in a short time span.

Example: Arched in Total Game Time: 3 days, 19 hours and 2 minutes.

Of course this dude was motivated and had some help, but in the end he is the one that trained his crits to arch. Sure he was pked and hunted down, but he didnt give up.

I think new players can do just fine with the game the way it is. Come up with a strategy and stick with it.

[Oldwin]

I think no alts will cure all our problems on nightmist 2, and it will hopefully be like the good old days.

Sadly I have a lot of work right now so progress is slow, but things should pick up eventually.

Pand does have a point.
And at least eclypse, caught the entire point of the post. Yea, I'm sure there are many people who will argue that the 'horse is not dead'. But, the whole fact of the matter, NM is geared towards the existing player base, and not the new coming player base. That, is at a detriment to the game..
And Ryuku didn't even get the concept of the topic... o well... I won't even go into that..
(I was using thief's/druid's/mage's as an example of others posts, not stating opinion)

[Shaginator]

The only reason the playerbase is dying is because people would rather come and pregnant dog on the forums than play the damn game and see all the new improvments staff has made as far as rules/areas/items etc.

[Boys Night Out]

The main reason is why does this guy care. If he doesn't like that the player base has gone. He should naff off and die like the rest of those pathetic souls who gave up :P

[Shaginator]

[Kenzaburokamos]

cliff..u have won this years funny a@# reply pic of the year. rofl

[rebel_blaidd]

i have noticed numbers dwindling myself but it kinda suits me hardly ever get pked anymore lol when i first started you couldnt even get outside nm without getting pked that was before the 10 and 5 limits i never really complained just took it as thats how things are done and ended up walking around nm and exploring its a whole lot more newbie friendly these days then what it was

i think the reduction in numbers is more to do with alternitives to nm then not being friendly to new ppl

alot more graphical games going around then nm and they get magazine coverage and advertisment space never seen anything like that for nightmist