38 replies to this topic

[Sarah]

These events are set up to be lvl 25+, but they should be lvl 30+.

Most people use at least lvl 30's.. a high percentage of them being lvl 35 or higher. Experts stand no chance against a lvl 35.

Also, the events were set up to be lvl 25+ on main when everybody was max lvl 30, and now the majority of people have main characters that have leveled past 30. Allowing 25's to enter was okay before because it was only 5 levels... But now on 1a experts just get owned by characters 10+ levels higher than them.

[Dangerous]

Supported.

[Desendent]

agreed 100%

[Apocalypto]

Agreed

[Peacemaker]

agreed

[speedy]

i have to agree on this one it was fair when it was only 5 lvl's+

[Piggy]

You all say agreed but what about the poor levels 25-29 who then wont have a triplex to enter, the reason Junior TripleX is level 15-24 is so that people with cobalts cant enter on a level 25 cant dominate the event, may I add if we extend the levels to 29, it then will be unfair.


If you can come up with a solution to this problem, I may implement it.

[Sarah]

You all say agreed but what about the poor levels 25-29 who then wont have a triplex to enter, the reason Junior TripleX is level 15-24 is so that people with cobalts cant enter on a level 25 cant dominate the event, may I add if we extend the levels to 29, it then will be unfair.


If you can come up with a solution to this problem, I may implement it.

Train more.

Why do they have to have a triplex too? I say if you want to join that bad, then train your character higher, or leave it at level 24.

Either that or make a triplex specifically for that level range...

Edited by Sarah, 23 May 2009 - 10:26 AM.

[Foxie]

Remember the level 25+ rule was created when the final round of the triplex was an everyone for themselves and people were being teamed (clan vs. clan, friends vs. enemies) and at that time it was concievable for a level 25 to win the event.

Since introducing the 1v1v1 for the final round, you need to re-think how this works:

• is it fair that the character that would stand to win the 1v1v1 in the final round is eliminated in the first round as a result of being teamed with an expert in the first round?
• if it comes down to 1v1v1 at the end... is it even fair to use teams of 3 in the first rounds if in the final round you search for the most able than leave it to chance?

I'm not saying I know the answers to this... but it's something to think about.

[Apocalypto]

The majority of the players have a lvl 30+. Sorry to those that do not, but the problem should be fixed for the majority of the playerbase, and then a "solution" for the 5 levels with out an event would be to train . Either they can have lvl 24 characters for the jr triplex, or they can advanced their characters up to the point that they are capable of participating in the big kid triplex.

[Apocalypto]

besides, we all know the reality of even a lvl 30 winning.. so why put a lvl 25 in it?.. im pretty sure that 3 lvl 25's couldnt beat a single lvl 35 very often

Edited by Apocalypto, 23 May 2009 - 04:07 PM.

[ice_cold]

wel it was originally ment for 5 lvls right.

i have a solution. change the triplex to lvl 35-40. problem fixed

Edited by ice_cold, 24 May 2009 - 05:23 AM.

[Desendent]

The thing with that is that nobody is 40, or will be soon. The one lvl 38 doesnt enter events often. The people who do enter events are usually on a lvl 35-36. So say that is the top lvl to go off of and make it 30+ or 31+ until the majority are 40 then up it then, b/c making it 35-40 now will cut out many players that would like to enter but cant get to 35 due to tokens or something.

[Prophet]

The thing with that is that nobody is 40, or will be soon.

Train more.

My point being that it is fine the way it is now, there needs to be an element of luck to the the TripleX be it not being paired against a team that your characters are bad against or being teamed with someone who is weaker than you are, if you start excluding level 25's for not being high enough level what happens when you all level up more to the point where your extra stam means you destroy level 30's?

The playerbase is small enough that restricting events further just simply isn't going to work.

[Apocalypto]

The thing with that is that nobody is 40, or will be soon.

Train more.

My point being that it is fine the way it is now, there needs to be an element of luck to the the TripleX be it not being paired against a team that your characters are bad against or being teamed with someone who is weaker than you are, if you start excluding level 25's for not being high enough level what happens when you all level up more to the point where your extra stam means you destroy level 30's?

The playerbase is small enough that restricting events further just simply isn't going to work.

Love when main people come and throw in their two cents and disagree with 20394 people. Guess thats why they play the dead server. Anyways, your "point" proves our point. Why the hell would i want their to be MUCH luck in the triplex. If i wanted to play a luck game i would page for vengeance or russian roulette, not a Triplex. IMO, this shouldnt have to be a staff issue. It should be the players saying "hey, there is no way in hell im going to win, and the only way i will effect this event is by causing "MY" team to lose" and thereby not joining. But since that probably wont happen, i suggest 30-40 being the lvl restrictions. Sure a lvl 30 can get own'd by a 35 easy, but atleast an archmaster can actually hit a lvl 35, unlike a pert character.

Two senarios...


Lvl 35 druid, lvl 35 thief, lvl 30 druid
vs
lvl 35 thief, lvl 34 thief, lvl 35 thief

It is possible that the team with the arch druid to win. Not especially likely, but possible.

Lvl 35 druid, lvl 35 thief, lvl 25 zerker
vs
lvl 35 thief, lvl 34 thief, lvl 35 thief

Not exactly possible to win. That lvl 25 wont ever hit, and once they are left to deal with just it... laugh..

Edited by Apocalypto, 24 May 2009 - 01:11 PM.

[Walt]

I was once teamed with Rafa as he decided to join an event with a level 25 char unequiped and weaponless as a joke. Our team even made it to the finals and won.

[Desendent]

that still doesnt make it fair walt, it should be at least 30+ since the top lvl has been changed from 30. it only makes sense

[Walt]

Not everything in life is fair. One person wins, and the rest lose It is what competition is all about.

I am surprised certain classes haven't been mentioned to be eliminated from events by now. This topic has gone 15+ postings without a thief overpowered complaint.

I'm just saying.....

[ice_cold]

no seriously though. i dont like the idea of experts being in the triplex. but saying 'train more' isnt the right way about stating a point. i personally think the triplex should be lvl 32-38 right now. no lvl 30 is going to win against a lvl 35 or 36, plain and simple. the party might get to the end with an arch, but they more then likely wont be able to take the 100 or so more hp, and extra stamina of the higher class having 2 more stamina.

[Desendent]

Not everything in life is fair. One person wins, and the rest lose It is what competition is all about.

I am surprised certain classes haven't been mentioned to be eliminated from events by now. This topic has gone 15+ postings without a thief overpowered complaint.

I'm just saying.....

that is b/c in a 1v1 format they arent overpowered.

neo and/or day can beat any of the thieves same lvl if they dont happen to have a cobalt.
The only reason they are any good is when they team up and are able to sit covert forever ready to click people.

Anyways, back on topic...

I know things are never fair but my point is that 25+ was decided when the top lvl was still 30. Since the max lvl has been raised so should the minimum lvl for the events. It only makes sense.

plus idk why you wouldnt support this when you use a high lvl anyways, as does 95% of the people who want to compete in them.

Edited by Desendent, 25 May 2009 - 05:47 AM.

[Walt]

plus idk why you wouldnt support this when you use a high lvl anyways, as does 95% of the people who want to compete in them.

Why don't I support ideas like this and alot of other ones? It is because of small things like this the palyerbase wanted, is the real reason the game is in the nuts hole state that it is in today. Small little changes that everyone thinks is best for the game, take its toll in the long run.

Now this idea may not have any adverse effect on the game as we know it, but think about it. How many small ideas have the playerbase asked for, and continued to ask for, and before you know it, NM of today is in existance?


Every little thing about this game does not need to be changed just because a msall group of people seem it would beinfit them in the short term. (This isntance may not be the best example, but it still does fit in my overall example)

Maybe people should just change the way they play the game to best suit their desired way of playing. DO a bit of searching., Everyone and their mother pretty much used the same complaints about mages in the begining of the 1A server with a few execeptions (me). The forum is filled with so many topics, it is almost( I say almost with a bit of sarcasim) comparable to the bitching about thieves we have at this current time.

[Desendent]

again this idea is nothing that would mess up the game in any way so you saying that it would make things worse for the game makes no sense.

and i dont normally support random suggestions on the forum but this is one that makes sense and would be beneficial

[Prophet]

Love when main people come and throw in their two cents and disagree with 20394 people. Guess thats why they play the dead server. Anyways, your "point" proves our point. Why the hell would i want their to be MUCH luck in the triplex. If i wanted to play a luck game i would page for vengeance or russian roulette, not a Triplex. IMO, this shouldnt have to be a staff issue. It should be the players saying "hey, there is no way in hell im going to win, and the only way i will effect this event is by causing "MY" team to lose" and thereby not joining. But since that probably wont happen, i suggest 30-40 being the lvl restrictions. Sure a lvl 30 can get own'd by a 35 easy, but atleast an archmaster can actually hit a lvl 35, unlike a pert character.

Two senarios...


Lvl 35 druid, lvl 35 thief, lvl 30 druid
vs
lvl 35 thief, lvl 34 thief, lvl 35 thief

It is possible that the team with the arch druid to win. Not especially likely, but possible.

Lvl 35 druid, lvl 35 thief, lvl 25 zerker
vs
lvl 35 thief, lvl 34 thief, lvl 35 thief

Not exactly possible to win. That lvl 25 wont ever hit, and once they are left to deal with just it... laugh..

There needs to be an element of luck in everything, there is luck in how much damage you hit for, or perhaps you would rather the event is instead just judged on who the staff members thinks has the best character, no point in fighting after all comes down to a lot of luck, which you wouldn't want.

A level 25 on Main is the same as a level 25 on 1a so I know of what sort of 'advantage' or 'disadvantage' this brings. A level 25(Should be using smite at 25) will still hit a level 35 character and this particular event is about Teamwork so everybit of damage they do can still help.

What your proposing though is a vicious circle where by the event is kept only for the very elite of the elite eventually which in my opinion isn't what the game is about, consider an analogy with the world cup, some of the smaller teams don't have a chance of winning but being able to enter keeps them interested in the sport.

Why should they be stopped from entering the event here? Its a weekly event so its not like its ruining it for a long period for any particular people and just being teamed with level 25's doesn't necessarily mean failure.


Speaking of dead server, Hows the future looking for your 1a server then?


While were at it I think the character Crane should be banned from 1alt PT as no one really has a chance of beating him 1v1 from what I can see of the last few events he entered.

Edited by Prophet, 25 May 2009 - 07:12 PM.

[Walt]

again this idea is nothing that would mess up the game in any way so you saying that it would make things worse for the game makes no sense.

Maybe you forgot to read my post, so I will redo it for you, but a bit more boldly...

Now this idea may not have any adverse effect on the game as we know it, but think about it. How many small ideas have the playerbase asked for, and continued to ask for, and before you know it, NM of today is in existance?

Every little thing about this game does not need to be changed just because a small group of people seem it would beinfit them in the short term. (This isntance may not be the best example, but it still does fit in my overall example)

Now those two small coments to me seem to say that this idea may not be the best example of what I am saying. But ideas on a whim are what caused the current state of unbalance.

Speaking of dead server, Hows the future looking for your 1a server then?

Our server still holds more active players than Main does at most given times. We also interact and socialism at times with each other.

The server time (England, GMT) is 02:33:51 on 05-26-2009.


There are 20 characters online, (20 users).1A


There are 21 characters online, (5 users).Main

Edited by Walt, 26 May 2009 - 01:34 AM.

[Apocalypto]

There needs to be an element of luck in everything, there is luck in how much damage you hit for, or perhaps you would rather the event is instead just judged on who the staff members thinks has the best character, no point in fighting after all comes down to a lot of luck, which you wouldn't want.

This suggestion doesnt deny the element of luck. If we were suggesting being able to pick your team and then enter the triplex that would take away the element of luck. We are simply suggesting that luck and the work you have put into your character balance in a fair way. Drawing a lvl 25 on your team is 100% chance and no matter how good your character it is veeerrrry unlikely that you will win the round. With a 30+ cap on the event it makes it more possible to compete without teams that face expert crits receiving a BYE.

A level 25 on Main is the same as a level 25 on 1a so I know of what sort of 'advantage' or 'disadvantage' this brings. A level 25(Should be using smite at 25) will still hit a level 35 character and this particular event is about Teamwork so everybit of damage they do can still help.

A level 35 on Main is different that a lvl 35 on 1a. They have more hp and stamina. Not very high % chance of hitting a lvl 35 with smite either. Would be better to berserk because some damage is better than none. Either way you look at it though, the expert's team will lose.

What your proposing though is a vicious circle where by the event is kept only for the very elite of the elite eventually which in my opinion isn't what the game is about, consider an analogy with the world cup, some of the smaller teams don't have a chance of winning but being able to enter keeps them interested in the sport.

Consider lvl 25-29 getting prepared for the big leagues. To stick with your analogy, how do you expect an amateur players to be thrown on a professional playing field without being slaughtered? Just doesnt make sense to me. Why run an event based on what is suppose to be the best character if alls that really matters is what team the lvl 25 is randomed to.

Why should they be stopped from entering the event here? Its a weekly event so its not like its ruining it for a long period for any particular people and just being teamed with level 25's doesn't necessarily mean failure.

There are events for lower level characters weekly as well. Being teamed with a lvl 25 does mean failure. I think i would just log off to save my screen of pots. /eyes.

Speaking of dead server, Hows the future looking for your 1a server then?

The Ðårk Å££Ïånçê clan (12 online characters):

While were at it I think the character Crane should be banned from 1alt PT as no one really has a chance of beating him 1v1 from what I can see of the last few events he entered.

You yawn.

My rebuttle in color.

Edited by Apocalypto, 26 May 2009 - 02:25 AM.

[Prophet]

Can't be bothered to mess around with quotes so each paragraph, irrespective of this one, will address each of your red ones:

Yes a level 25 is less likely to go through than a level 30, this is just the nature of the event and not really grounds to remove them, a level 30 is less likely to go through than a level 31 and so on, iterate this logic on and it'll only be a level 40 event by the end. In my opinion excluding characters because you are less likely to win with them shouldn't happen, if someone new is playing the game and they have a level 25 character I think they should be able to enjoy the game and enter the event if they want to.

You miss the point entirely of course a level 25 is less likely to win against higher opposition, but so is a level 30 you can't just exclude characters because of this its an event for everyone as level 25 doesn't take a lot of effort to get to meaning most can participate. Why do you have more of a right to join this event than someone who is new to playing? You don't is the point.

Once again your making out like its impossible to win with a level 25 its not if you are a good team in terms of coordination and attack planning you still have a chance of going through with a little bit of luck. If a level 30 enters the events but with severely weakened equips you could argue that you're just as likely to get slaughtered, so perhaps change the event to only characters who have the very best equips as well as a high level character? This elitist thinking doesn't really work. So what if one time you enter and get paired with a level 25 and it doesn't work out, its a game you were unlucky in your pairings, you could have been unlucky in your pairings and got paired with 2 clerics would you then be on here complaining that clerics shouldn't be allowed in the event? The event runs every week so there is always a chance next week for you to enter again.

There are events for lower level characters yes, level 25s are not in this category according to these events.

I was refering more to which server will still be around in a year.

Forget all of this, just tell me why the TripleX should be an elitist only event and not available to newer players?

[Angelus]

"Train more", "Cry more", "Don't join"..

All very nice suggestions. I agree partially with Walt tho. People dislike something, and want it to change just like that. If that was only possible irl. In my eyes players need to adapt to the game, not the other way around. Else we will have the same discussion when everyone who joins is 34+ and only a few 30's. The comment about Crane that Prophet made is a very valid one in that perspective.

On the other hand I also realize the playerbase isn't big enough to not hear players about how they want to play. Plus, what chance does a lvl 25 have of winning anyways. I know I wouldn't even join on one, unless I wanted to ruin it for others.

So perhaps instead of saying why you would or why you wouldn't we should think more in the way of a solution to fit both needs, one opinion doesn't have to exclude the other. For instance make junior triplex from 25 to 30 and simply not allow cobalts? We already do it with potions, what's the big deal. And I'm sure if crits lower then 25 want to be cannon fodder, they wouldn't mind doing this in regular moshes.

[Apocalypto]

Can't be bothered to mess around with quotes so each paragraph, irrespective of this one, will address each of your red ones:

Yes a level 25 is less likely to go through than a level 30, this is just the nature of the event and not really grounds to remove them, a level 30 is less likely to go through than a level 31 and so on, iterate this logic on and it'll only be a level 40 event by the end. In my opinion excluding characters because you are less likely to win with them shouldn't happen, if someone new is playing the game and they have a level 25 character I think they should be able to enjoy the game and enter the event if they want to.
You cant attack players below 10 levels of you outside of town, why have a span of over 10 levels in an event? Whats the logic in that. Furthermore, for what reason would it be necessary to allow lvl 25's entry when you know in the end it will just lower the morale of the team that lost because of being randomly selected to have a handicap.
You miss the point entirely of course a level 25 is less likely to win against higher opposition, but so is a level 30 you can't just exclude characters because of this its an event for everyone as level 25 doesn't take a lot of effort to get to meaning most can participate. Why do you have more of a right to join this event than someone who is new to playing? You don't is the point.
Exactly, level 25 isnt hard to get to. Thus there is a junior triplex for 15-24.(notice the 10 lvl's.. ie30-40)... Besides, you act like im anti-nub.. Remember me suggesting the 1-30 triplex being separate from 30+ a while ago? ALL can participate in the junior triplex. The suggestion of a 25-29 triplex without cobalt items would be a great addition.
Once again your making out like its impossible to win with a level 25 its not if you are a good team in terms of coordination and attack planning you still have a chance of going through with a little bit of luck. If a level 30 enters the events but with severely weakened equips you could argue that you're just as likely to get slaughtered, so perhaps change the event to only characters who have the very best equips as well as a high level character? This elitist thinking doesn't really work. So what if one time you enter and get paired with a level 25 and it doesn't work out, its a game you were unlucky in your pairings, you could have been unlucky in your pairings and got paired with 2 clerics would you then be on here complaining that clerics shouldn't be allowed in the event? The event runs every week so there is always a chance next week for you to enter again.
It is impossible. You will get smoked. End. No-one will argue about someones equips, unless it is obvious someone joins simply to ruin somebody else's chances of wining (weaponless or w/e) , so that is a lame point. :/. Again, im not being elitist. Im being rational. So what if your going to the army and the other two guys watching your back can't work a gun. A game should be fun. Whether your paired with or against the lvl 25 the round isnt going to be as fun because you can foresee the outcome with ease. And again, some luck is acceptable, but to play Russian roulette with who gets the expert on their team in a "coveted" weekly event is silly. Why not just make it 1-40. Hell it will be all in fun. We can see who is the luckiest.
There are events for lower level characters yes, level 25s are not in this category according to these events.
They dont have to lvl past 24. And they can train more than one character, as most people do. Just because they dont have an event doesnt mean they should participate in one they will be slaughtered in. It wont be fun for them or the other players. Change the cap to 30+ and its good to go. Then you can solve the "problem" of lvl 25-29 not having an event. Which in a post above basically was done.
I was refering more to which server will still be around in a year.
Heh. My clan has more people on it than your server. Oh, whats that? A year from now? Are you from the future? An irl nightmist spai maybe? What do you know that we dont?????? /eyes
Forget all of this, just tell me why the TripleX should be an elitist only event and not available to newer players?
Tell me this. How many times did you slenderize those who think this is a good idea with the term elitist. Maybe i should think of a term for you. Hmm. Conservative. But i just wont throw out a term that was stereotypically conjured up by the fact we want it to be fair amongst the higher level players. Ill tell you why i think your conservative and why im not an elitist. For one, you fail to see that the majority of the game has 30+ characters, and the fact that if you do not have a 30+ character then there is a 1-24 triplex you can participate in until you work to the next level of play. If 25-29 triplex were added it wouldnt even be a situation anyway, but even if it werent it is obvious that the cap should be 30-40 for the "main" triplex. An elitist is part of a select favored group, not the majority. A conservative apposes change and you are apprehensive to a change that doesnt even effect you. Who's title is more fitting? Your generalization or my observation.

color=rebuttal...

/t angelus good suggestion.. about 25-29 triplex..

http://www.nightmist.../...&hl=triplex

My opinions on the matter of triplex months ago. My "elitist" views of how lower lvls should have a better chance.... lmao... I suggested lvls 1-30 and 30-40. I suggested the idea in a hurry and obviously i didnt think the idea fully through as the same problem would be in a 1-30, so splitting them into 15-24 and 24-29 without cobalt would be the best solution in my opinion.

Edited by Apocalypto, 26 May 2009 - 11:44 AM.

[Prophet]

Congratulations on completely misunderstanding my use of the word elitist, it was used as another way of saying for high level characters only, which nullifies the rest of your rant, perhaps read more closely a post before launching into a rant Rafa style:

You: "These are FACTS"

(Apologies for non-english people who probably won't get this joke)

Back on topic: I remember when a long while ago I joined events on below arch characters knowing full well I didn't stand a chance of winning, it was still fun. This is a game for everyone, if you make the Junior TripleX then what about characters 15-24? I just think it is fine the way it is now.

Whether it effects me or not is a moot point, too many times people come on here crying about something or other whip up enough support and have it changed before its even been thought about fully; secondly it may effect me as although the topic is entitled for 1a it is likely to be introduced on Main aswell.

Also as for the comments about your server being deleted, just read pandilex's post its about as concrete as it gets without him actually saying "Your server will be deleted".

I don't fail to see that most of the playerbase is above level 30, perhaps what you fail to see is that the playerbase it small and needs to grow, surely even you can't argue that reducing events available for newer players is a good idea?


Remember read the above twice before you launch into a rant, and whether english is your second language or not(which I am guessing it is) perhaps ask someone if its taken in a different light to your online dictionary.

Edited by Prophet, 26 May 2009 - 12:05 PM.

[Apocalypto]

Um, ok. You used the word elitist in the basis of how it is defined. Only problem is, when the majority of the game has lvl 30+ that doesnt make lvl 30's elite. Thus, you are the one misunderstanding and jumping to irrational "hating". What i have come to conclude about you, is you are very close minded and dont actually read my posts. If you would have read it you would have got that my point had reason behind it and you are just being hostile to prove an invalid point. Way to try to add effect to your lame post with a fun little picture too. Kudos. And i myself dont think it's fun to be the guy that causes 2 random people to lose every week. Sorry if you think thats “fun.” Surely you didnt miss the 4-5 times a lvl 25-29 triplex was mentioned? If you did, please recheck through this and dont post again without saying something different please. By different I mean, better.

Your OPINION is just that. Opinion that it will make the game more fun for the lvl 25. My opinion has reason behind it. That the game wont be as fun for the two people that get screwed by a random, and it would be logical for the lvls 25-29 to have an event they can have a chance in. Guess you failed to see that fact that as it is now 25-40 is the levels allowed in the event. That is insane considering that contradicts the game's 10 level attacking rules. Surely you know how to read considering you type. I am NOT ANITNOOOB. Im not saying, "moose LVL 25's". If you honestly cant see what my point is, and everyone elses, im not going to be the guy to explain it to you in slow motion. Anyways, nice to see hostility from you. Must mean my argument is better than yours when you cant actually rebut. Mr. Sarcastic Arab Man and a lame attempt at a jab about my "second language" wont change the fact that my posts have thoughts behind them and yours are just "Merr".

Anyways, for the third time now, maybe you wont miss it this time, the solution here lies in a 24-29 triplex (which isnt even 100% necessary imo, but would be a good addition for people that have 24-29). Its just common sense to me that a person 10-15 levels behind another player will have the slightest chance to change even the outcome of one players death, more less to actually advance a single round. You say, "I don't fail to see that most of the playerbase is above level 30, perhaps what you fail to see is that the playerbase it small and needs to grow, surely even you can't argue that reducing events available for newer players is a good idea?" .... Maybe you fail to see that my post doesnt deny them an event. It gives them an event they can actually participate in a competitive level instead of just getting slaughtered by characters they have no business fighting. You seem to be fighting for the “noobs”, but really, it doesn’t matter what I post you just ignore the stuff you could agree with and continue with your output. Maybe you should work on that intake department a little.

Edited by Apocalypto, 27 May 2009 - 10:39 AM.