27 replies to this topic

[Angelic]

I was just thinking, that vision should be made to where it won't reveal clannies/party members and so on. My reason for this is simply... why would a cleric voluntarily force his (or her) own friends/allies out into the open?

Post your thoughts, please.

[Abandoned]

Agreed cus you gotta move and invis again waste of mana..

Edited by Abandoned, 20 May 2004 - 05:23 AM.

[Abandoned]

Ignore last post messed up


Agreed

[Nilanna]

*Nods*

Perfect idea.

*Hugs Rikah* ^^

[trauma]

it would be nice, but they wont change it.. vision is vision lol... like as in SEE ALL.. but good idea..

[Gaddy]

it's your cleric seeing all though, not everyone, so he could reveal those whom he wanted to and leave others be.

I like the idea, but have to agree with Shannon, it probably won't happen.

[Vodka]

Yeah, would be a little nice addition. Would defeat the purpose of Vision. Oh well.

[Angelic]

How would it defeat the purpose of vision?

[Vodka]

By casting it.. it reveals everyone hidden.

[Angelic]

And...that was my point for posting this idea... It doesn't make sense for a cleric to reveal allies...and I'm sure there could be a way to keep them from revealing everyone, and just stick to revealing who they should reveal.

Or it could even be made to not reveal people on your nopk list...so that if you cleared your nopk it would go back to being "normal."

[Angelus]

I would say it shouldn't reveal party members and thats it. Allies and clannies it should, just because they are 'friends' doesn't mean you know they are there already, and with party members you do...

[Shane]

Vision is a room spell. For it to reveal just one person other than your alts covert/invis/camoed your cleric would need to be able to see a person to target them for the vision spell. Seeing as your cleric is unable to see the person to target them is the reason for it being a room spell. It would be nice to have it target those who are not your alts but that would be a little off the wall.

I just thought of something that is odd but shoots what I said in the arse.

Your cleric can cast healing spells on those covert/invis/camoed and that is a target spell. So why not the vision spell too. But for vision to be a target spell you would need to know who was there.

Say /vision would cast on the cleric and all would be shown. /cast vision/fourtwenty would show my thief fourtwenty. Say you know that Armaggeddon is covert on the same square with you. So your cleric does /cast vision/armaggeddon and the spell it targeted on just Armaggeddon. This would give /spy a little more use.

Edited by Shane, 20 May 2004 - 03:13 PM.

[dec]

i agree with Shanes first paragraph, but to argue against his second I say that the cleric already knows the person is there in the party, so he/she can still focus their magic/engery on them even though the targeted crits cant be seen.

[Bean]

If you acctually think about it... The fact that Vision shows even your party mates makes no sense. Being in their party entails that you would KNOW when they had gone covert/invisible, AND that you would know WHERE they are *Or else the uses of invis/covert in parties would be kind of... Well... Stupid...*

And the excuse about it being a room spell is rather weak... A cleric is intune with his or her diety, Which would entail that said deity would be able to give the cleric the ability to determine which life signatures would be his allies and which would be enemies. Hence the cleric would be able to weave said spell accordingly to only reveal enemies.

On another note, why would a spell with such tactical uses clearly remove any, and all tactical advantages you have over your enemy? Its absurd...

[Angelus]

Its not a room spell, cause only the cleric can see them come out in text.

And they already 'see' their party members..so it makes sense, now bow to Angelic and put it on the to do list

[Pandilex]

Vision allows everyone hidden to be revealed to everyone. It is cast upon the entire room and thus affects everyone in it, not just the cleric.

Therefore, everyone can see everyone!

[Squee]

Last time I did a /library on vision, it told me that the cleric uses this to find the "life energy" of certain beings. Unless this spell like...makes everyone with "life energy" glow a bright, neon yellow colour, I see clerics casting this spell then pointing where invisible/covert enemies are.

[Angelus]

Vision allows everyone hidden to be revealed to everyone. It is cast upon the entire room and thus affects everyone in it, not just the cleric.

Therefore, everyone can see everyone!

But only the cleric gets the you revealed crit1 crit2 message...

Others wont notice them uncovering, they just see them on the playerscreen.

[Pandilex]

Just accept it, if you want me to make up more stories then I can...


The cleric is the only person attuned to the forces of spell itself, and therefore intrinsically encounter its effects, rather than having to 'notice' them.

[Deval]

Pandilex haxx Nightmist.

[Bean]

So your using the useless excuse that its a 'whole room' spell so it should reveal everyone to everyone?

Thats weak... and you know it.

[alone]

I'm weak too, and we all know it!

But on the subject of seeing things..
Ever had someone sneek up on you, and you just not realise - It's like that, they're there, you just haven't realised till the Cleric flashes a light in your eye and you blink again.

[Eamon]

The way I see it, this can be looked at in a few ways.

First, the cleric is casting the spell, so one way of looking at it is for only the cleric to see the crits that he uncovers. How can a cleric show someone else what he sees? If he is pointing the hidden crits to someone else, the hidden crits would see him pointing them out, and attempt to kill the cleric before he finishes.

Second, the cleric casts vision, and the crits show right up on other crits screens. They should at least have to look around before seeing them or /refresh to see the crits that were hidden. Hitting enter after a cleric hits vision to look around and see the crits that the cleric is pointing out.

As for the cleric not pointing out his hidden party members, this makes sense to me. The cleric is seeing all the hidden crits. Is he gonna point out to everyone else on the square where ALL the hiding crits are, or the ones he sees and knows to be hostile/non party members?

Its like in war, when a person spots the enemy, he lets his side know where the enemy is, he doesn't let the enemy know where his side is.

[Eamon]

Forgot to add, the hidden crits that are revealed shouldnt know they are back in the open, they should have to look around/refresh as well to see their own crits out in the open. They should not just appear out of thin air to anyone.

[Gaddy]

The way i see it, this can only be looked at ONE way, "___Insert what pandilex (the game admin) said here"

Anyway, I think vision should vision the whole room, my opinion has changed since my last post.

[Satterlee]

I really liike Angelus' Idea. Only visions peeps NOT in yer party. I mean, y would a cleric volunterally (sp?) put his fellow adventurers out in the open?

[Evergrey]

Its like in war, when a person spots the enemy, he lets his side know where the enemy is, he doesn't let the enemy know where his side is.

Let me tell you something about war, let's get basic first... Anyone can learn how to shoot a gun, anyone can learn how to walk on a line. <well 99% of us can>

What you get trained for in war is not to go around spotting the 'bad guys' and shooting them it's about doing as much dmg as often as you can... there is a reason why people get trained to do this rather than just being handed a gun and tell them to go shoot someone.

Now back to the point I was making, as soon as you have fired a shot everyone will know that you are there, and mostly also where you were. Todays tactics requires firearms, which unfortunately does rather loud sounds and leaves some smoke from the excess gas that's developed as you fire you projectile... not to mention the flame as you fire it.

Thus as soon as you attack you are revealed to everyone and they can dive into cover/attack back.

Now back to the game, really think that 1 thief could sneak up on a party of 5 fully aware fighters/clerics/what not without getting spotted? The only class that could do some dmg from range as it is atm would be rangers, and maybe druids/mages considered that a flashing light usually don't cause much dmg <beam> and summoning the nature spirits would actually require some time and by the time you cast that spell <natures fury/stormwrath> Everyone will know that you are there way before the spell goes off.

Rangers are the only ones that should be unaffected in this case since they are to only Class with a ranged attack... now we come to the slight problem... Rangers can't covert. With Invis on them sure then I could go for them staying invis, but think of it like this... When the cleric cast vision he takes the look around and tries spotting an ambush <with his exceptional attunement to nature and life and what not> as soon as the ambush is spotted, there is no ambush the others are prepared thus hidden alts should come uncovert.

If I say that there are people hidden behind a rock 4 yards away wouldn't you turn your eyes towards it and most likely change your position and stance slightly as well, maybe gain a few yards in a direction to see more clearly exactly who and how many there is there.

I say leave it as it is, since a.) how can you move with a party if you are hidden from them? <thieves> And b.) No Class in this game excepts rangers can do anything at range in this game... it's not likely that a 300 lbs Berserk will hide behind a 3 inch thick tree.

Now to Camo... When Druids cast this spell they simply camouflage themselves <which would mean getting some shrubbery on top of them and putting some nice green grass in their helmest or whatever> but since a druid needs close range to do dmg <or has to lie in his shrubbery chanting for 5 mins rather loudly and see's his target run off before he's even halfway through that chant.> It would only be logical to see if someone is laying in a shrubbery 20 feet to your right chanting some sing song to the nature WHEN you are looking for an ambush?

That are a few of the things atleast I have learned from my training in the army... look at obvious places... if need be blast them a few times with your guns.

Further more I'd say thieves need a /vision spell. Since they are in fact the only class that knows anything about hiding <no matter of the surroundings> where as Druids should only be able to camo outside of towns where there actually are things to camo with... *druid takes a trash can and hides in it... no one notices the moving trash can as it strolls down Viper street*

And Invisible things should not exist at all in this game to make it 'realistic' since if 10 people look around and don't spot 1 thief... or better yet 10 thieves at close range I'd say that they are all blind.

I think I lost track of where I was headed in this post but I felt so good about writing that I posted it anyways.

[fester919]

would be nice if u on a few theifs and your own clannie uses vision and u would get mad b/c they just uncoverted u and shown your position