26 replies to this topic

[deadman]

Why was the camouflage and invisibility magic power cast amounts raised so high? They were never a problem in the past. Only way i could see it was if they lasted longer which I doubt will happen.

[Walt]

Invis still lasts for 45 seconds, no change in that. I would think if you doubled the mana to cast invis, you would also lengthen it somewhat.

I can see raising the druid camo because they stay hidden alot longer then mages do on invis. But to raise both and not give mages a bit more time in hiding doesn't seem correct.


On a side note, thanks for lowering spell mana cost.

Edited by Walt, 15 July 2007 - 06:17 PM.

[Freek]

Doesn't seem to matter to me. Im just happy I'm not such a mana tramp. And don't have to train up another alt just to go do stuff in partys with .

Edited by Freek, 15 July 2007 - 07:14 PM.

[Gaddy]

-nods in agreement with Freek-

It was raised with other spells being lowered because we figure invis is mainly for running through areas or PKing.
If you are PKing near town, then the high mana cost doesn't hurt much at all. Far from town, it's still mostly made up for through lower cost to deal damage.

It also discourages invising large groups through areas, and though it would be costly to do so, a good driver in a non-kill to pass type area can definately make up for the costs of healing spells, etc in large part.



And also note that this is just on 1-alt NM. Though it doesn't seem too unfit for main, we don't want to mess with things that have worked fine for so long.

[deadman]

Things have worked just fine on 1 alt too so it didn't need to be messed with. Areas like chronos will be hell to do if you have to invis a party to get around up there. It wasn't really that necessary to up the cost because it was never really a problem. And it doesn't really balance much.

[Gaddy]

But for a mage to be able to really play in those extended areas is very difficult due to how quickly beam eats up mana---believe me, even on main with my whole party, my mage sucks mana up so quickly that I often tone him down to using shock.

There is no area that requires an invisible party...and most only benefit much from an invisble leader so that you don't drag monsters you don't kill.

[Freek]

But for a mage to be able to really play in those extended areas is very difficult due to how quickly beam eats up mana---believe me, even on main with my whole party, my mage sucks mana up so quickly that I often tone him down to using shock.

There is no area that requires an invisible party...and most only benefit much from an invisble leader so that you don't drag monsters you don't kill.

Yeah, I had to tone Freek down to blast on bosses. And when we go places (such as gsw) a Mage or Druid leads just so we don't drag monsters on the square or all the way through desert and have 5 mobs hitting us at the same time.

(P.S. Gaddy - wheres the cleric idea )

[deadman]

Well from what i saw going to chronos whole parties had to be invised and the mana cost was never a problem before so why now? And camouflage is self cast only so was never a problem either so why now?

[Freek]

You can make it to chronos with the right people. Without being invis'd.

And camouflage should of been raised a while back, I think. I mean you can cast camouflage hit track on someone and it takes forever before you have to recast. At least this way you can't find someone in town track, Move to recast camouflage, move back to re-track over and over again. Now you have to actually go get mana insetad of sitting there for 10mins waiting for someone to leave town.

[Gaddy]

Well from what i saw going to chronos whole parties had to be invised and the mana cost was never a problem before so why now? And camouflage is self cast only so was never a problem either so why now?

Nah, there is no need of Invisibility for Chronos; some used it to avoid the really high poison and Tigers that follow pretty often.
Invis wasn't a problem, and it shouldn't be a problem at double the cost, except for if you're trying to invis really often without being near a town, which would really just make a mage use up mana in a similar fashion to how they did before..so there is no real loss.
For camo---Freek summed that up.

[deadman]

No one complained of either being a problem before so why would it need to be fixed?

[Gaddy]

Many people complained of the high cost of mage damage spells.

Lowering the cost of the damage spells is why the invis and camo spells were upped, to keep their mana costs decently balanced.
Until you've come up with a real problem that this causes or the sort, I don't understand pursuing a complaint about the cost of invis/camo.

[deadman]

The high cost of the damage spells fits with how much damage they do, that just makes a mage easier lowering them. So if they didn't have to be lowered then invis did not have to be raised. The way mages should be fixed is the thing JLH is coding now. No one complained about the cost of invis or camouflage. They were okay as they were. It just makes using a mage or druid a little more pointless with the amount having to be spent on mana.

[Freek]

The high cost of the damage spells fits with how much damage they do, that just makes a mage easier lowering them. So if they didn't have to be lowered then invis did not have to be raised. The way mages should be fixed is the thing JLH is coding now. No one complained about the cost of invis or camouflage. They were okay as they were. It just makes using a mage or druid a little more pointless with the amount having to be spent on mana.

From being a mage user, Ill sacrifice not being able to invis as much then for being able to actually cast more spells that do damage... Before on clan trips I would have to use blast just so that there would be mana for the Clerics. Now I can go full force and not have to worry about having to make more then one trip to a boss. Also if you have to invis a party to get somewhere then take more then one mage or sacrifice some mana or dont go? And for the mage damage was right for the ammount of mana it took isnt really true now that invis takes more. Now a mage can't 'track' a person as well without being close to a town because now 1 advanced mana crystals = 2 invis. So it will be harder for mages to pk as stealthy (which you are fighting for )

Druids have never had to spend near as much mana as mages basically beacuse camo last forever compared to invis and that when training they usually are morphed at bosses and such. And for a mage, mages that do stuff besides pk or run around invis will spend less on mana becuase they get more beams out of it then they used to.


Freek (Founder) (¨¨*:· £õsê Mõrê Éxþ Plêåsê ·:*¨¨.) (231/254) (-2/398) -- Worn Path (Arilin Outskirts).

Edited by Freek, 15 July 2007 - 11:26 PM.

[PureMourning]

PureMourning (Chairman) (There is a tragic clash between Truth and the world. Pure undistorted truth burns up the world.) (254/254) (-12/420) -- King Street (Arilin).

Bug much?

Edited by PureMourning, 15 July 2007 - 11:24 PM.

[Gaddy]

neat

[deadman]

Ok and while we are at it then reduce the cost of stormwrath then too if we are going to reduce and add to mages do the same for druids.

[Freek]

Ok and while we are at it then reduce the cost of stormwrath then too if we are going to reduce and add to mages do the same for druids.

Yeah and then lets lower beam to level 10 so mages can have there best damage spell at same level as druids!

[Gaddy]

Druids have morph and real ability to attack.
They do not rely on their magical attacks even half as much as mages do, even on 1-alt.

Their mana cost is already low anyway, even Nature's Fury only costs as much as the old beam did.
Stormwrath costs as much as beam.

I think lowering their mana costs would overpower them; they're already one of the top classes in-game.



I'd be VERY VERY against lowering their damage spell cost.

[Smidgen]

Many people complained of the high cost of mage damage spells.

Lowering the cost of the damage spells is why the invis and camo spells were upped, to keep their mana costs decently balanced.
Until you've come up with a real problem that this causes or the sort, I don't understand pursuing a complaint about the cost of invis/camo.

Just curious but if "lowering the cost of damage is why the invis and camo spells were upped"
(see entire quote above) how come the cost of stormwrath and/or nature's fury was not lowered as well? I mean if now blast only costs 7mp and beam only cost 10mp, but invis increased on mages.. then how come stormwrath still costs 10 mp and nature's fury still cost 15 mp along with camo going up by 25mp when mages invis only went up by 20mp (and yes I know that camo should cost more because it lasts longer but it now cost double what it did and 5mp more than mages invis yet neither of the dmg spells were reduced)? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying this is a totally bad thing or that its unfair, I don't really have an opinion yet until someone explains to me the reasoning. It might make perfect sense once I am enlightened, and it really doesn't bother me much I am just curious. I get the general idea of the increasing of invis and lowering of dmg spells just wondered why both classes dmg spell costs were not lowered. So, if someone could please explain that to me it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[deadman]

I agree with Smidgen here. make them even then.

[Spectra]

and why please tell me why are there 2 bartenders in Fastbond inn and only one in most of the other cities??

[Ryuku]

Druids can get +90 armor at lvl 19
Mages at lvl 28 (granted they'll ever get aop)

Druids get their strongest spell at level 10
As stong as mages blast at lvl 20.

At lvl 25 when mages actually get their strongest spell, druids stormwrath has grown stronger and does only about 10 less damage for the same mana cost as it has since level 10.

Druids can do more damage than spells with morph an a hawk talon, damage ranging from 50-100 without any cleric spells.
Mages attack sucks and are forced to use mana forever, doing the same if not less, damage than a morphed druid.


Uhh..why do druids need to be given equal standings as mages when almost everything else about them is pretty much stronger?

[Freek]

You tell them Alex!

And for smidgen.. They are lowering the cost for mages damage spell because before mages would have to rely on blast or flame or shock to go far away from town without using an inventory of mana in 3 seconds.. THEY ARE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO WORK TOGETHER TO GO DO THINGS.

[Raylen]

Tony.

I swear, if I hear you utter the phrase "things are ok the way they are" one more time, I will swim the Atlantic Ocean and kick your punk ass so hard you will not be able to sit down (and thus play nm) for a LONG TIME!!!

[Gaddy]

Many people complained of the high cost of mage damage spells.

Lowering the cost of the damage spells is why the invis and camo spells were upped, to keep their mana costs decently balanced.
Until you've come up with a real problem that this causes or the sort, I don't understand pursuing a complaint about the cost of invis/camo.

Just curious but if "lowering the cost of damage is why the invis and camo spells were upped"
(see entire quote above) how come the cost of stormwrath and/or nature's fury was not lowered as well? I mean if now blast only costs 7mp and beam only cost 10mp, but invis increased on mages.. then how come stormwrath still costs 10 mp and nature's fury still cost 15 mp along with camo going up by 25mp when mages invis only went up by 20mp (and yes I know that camo should cost more because it lasts longer but it now cost double what it did and 5mp more than mages invis yet neither of the dmg spells were reduced)? Don't get me wrong I'm not saying this is a totally bad thing or that its unfair, I don't really have an opinion yet until someone explains to me the reasoning. It might make perfect sense once I am enlightened, and it really doesn't bother me much I am just curious. I get the general idea of the increasing of invis and lowering of dmg spells just wondered why both classes dmg spell costs were not lowered. So, if someone could please explain that to me it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

If you read the post directly above your complaint about druids' spells instead of one half-way up the page from that topic, it explains why druids do not need or deserve lower mana costs on Stormwrath or Nature's Fury.

[Dark]

Tony.

I swear, if I hear you utter the phrase "things are ok the way they are" one more time, I will swim the Atlantic Ocean and kick your punk ass so hard you will not be able to sit down (and thus play nm) for a LONG TIME!!!

I aint much of a swimmer but ill join you.