324 replies to this topic

[Zylia]

This post is kinda random organization wise... but I'm just gonna bring up a few points I've noticed as I scanned back through this entire topic...

I recall Mec a few pages back calling me selfish for my scenario on abortions.

You seem a million times more selfish.

1. I wouldn't want a gay person in my household for the same reason I wouldn't want a druggy in. I guess I would still love them even though they were gay. . . it would probably ruin my life though.

2. If people do things (be gay) do things that people (me, for instance) don't like, I will attempt to stay away from that person. I don't think I could love somebody who was gay... if a family member, due to poor discipline, was gay, it would grieve be deeply, and cause bad feelings all around and maybe ruin some people's lives...

3.Abortion = less population = harmful to me.

4. I can live with gay people being gay people.. I just wouldn't like it AT ALL.

5. Umm, my religion says no.

6. Abortion is selfish also, it makes me have less money through social security.

7. We've estabished that abortion harms me.

Hypocritical statement:

This is selfish too, they want to do what they do and don't care about other people.

Mec you realize that this statement describes you perfectly? You want to do what you like and you don't give a nuts about how that affects others.

And I will prepare to defend my religious beliefs because they are RIGHT!

Yes, in your eyes...

Also must add this was quite an idiotic statement

If everybody aborted their babies, then the human race would die out! I AM part of the human race and I don't want MY RACE to die out!

Good luck having over 6 billion people worldwide get abortions. (which is total population.. not excluding men - dont feel like chasing worldwide sex statistics so your dealing with the full number ) You do realize that this world is becoming overpopulated correct? Or haven't you reached that yet in your history books?

I don't think's it's fair to invade someone's right to life.

I don't think its fair to invade someones right to choose their way of life.

Anyway, in my book, atheists are stubborn donkeys.

Because I'm an Athiest and choose not to follow a belief system you resort to name calling?

Many, many kidnappings are done by gay people.

Anyone else just look at your screen and think "What the hell?" when you saw that?

Oh, I've been raped, I think I'll kill my baby. . . no. . . I don't think so.

Your logic screams 'typical ignorant male.'

I also recall Mec setting down the laws for this thread:

Yes, courtesy above all things! Be very polite and try not to insult. Criticism should DEFINETELY happen, but don't just say "ur stupid", or something like that.

Sad part is, he's one of the only ones violating his own rules.

And finally...

Abortion = lessening of population.

Lessening of population = less working class.

Less working class = less social security.

MEC, STOP USING THAT EQUATION. WE ALL have seen that time and time again and you know why half of us aren't acknowledging that statement? Because you have no base on the statement and I wish you luck trying to make one up. You don't even know what social security is! You don't understand how the working class affects America! You don't understand how the flow of the population goes either! Your just spouting out random little moronic things because it will fit nice into a little equation. The abortions in the United States are MINUTE compared to the number of births. Believe me, its not even putting a dent in our population! You know what a lot of poverty results from? OVERPOPULATION. So even if your Abortion = lessening of population was true, it would be a GOOD thing! Now then Mec, take note, THIS HAS BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED. Big text = stands out more. I hope that you don't overlook it for the 90th time.

I suggest you relook over all of the posts. Several of us have answered many of your points of debate but your too fricken oblivious to see and acknowledge it.

Edited by Zylia, 07 August 2004 - 12:17 AM.

[Lich]

OK sits back in his chair and takes a dep breath before posting, takes another, takesone more now begins.


Charon it was me and you together that blew his greek androman empire thingout of the water here are the posts.

Actually there were. There were homosexuals in ancient greece. Among some Native American tribes homosexual men and apparently some women are well, were given special places in the tribe. They were reveared and thought of as basically being holy people. Again if you wish for proof of what I'm saying I'll post it. Just let me know

Edit: Oh and they are called berdache or "two-spirits." I'm sure the different tribes that had them might have called them someone different but those are just terms that you can use to look them up on the net and in books and get information. Just in case you wanna like google it or something.

This post has been edited by Shera on Jul 31 2004, 09:58 PM


The roman empire was famous for its gay and Bisexual population. In fact the greatest Emperor in its history was a well known Bisexual. He always had two men and two women on staff when he wished to enjoy his sexual pleasure. The emperors name Julieus Ceasar.

Also the Roman emperor Galigula Ceasar was famous for having three sets of sexual shows troops one gay female, one gay male, and one hetero sexual. Because he enjoed the simple showing of pleasurethat they recieved in the sex act and he loed to watch he was known as the Voyer emperer. A movie that contained explicit sex scenes and rated X baring his name was released in the 80s, but it did not start out to be a porn it was orianally made to be a documentary showing his life. It was rated X and then the director was made to remove all scenes of gay and lesbian sex because americans find that offensive.

But it doesnt change the fact that it was there, No it is not because you disagree with me that I say your arguements are not true or valid. I say that because they are not arguements based on fact or on any presented evidence. You are young but even you should be able go on yahoo and get something. But you do not so therefore i come to the only belief that it is religon based and therfore not a valid arguement.

This post has been edited by Lich on Jul 31 2004, 10:12 PM

I studied roman history and i rana chat room in which we had to find alot of stuff to make the rp realistic.

Next it was stotic who proved him wrong on the social security, Dodna pot who proved him wrong on the war in Iraq and on Bush.

Maha and zylia on abortion, me on just about all of it.

and to many people to list on everything else. Im personally done answering him as i dont speak to biggots and im tired of his breath it smells funny. Throws you that rope there a tall tree right over there. just please make sure mec doesnt piss himselfas your draggiong him over it will kill the grass.

[Charon]

Charon it was me and you together that blew his greek androman empire thingout of the water here are the posts.

I'm afraid it wasn't me, though I'd love to have taken some credit ^^
I wasn't around at the time... "This post has been edited by Shera on Jul 31 2004, 09:58 PM" ^^

*claps Shera and Lich*

Thankyou for finding those posts for me though as I had wanted to read them, but had lost them amongst the pages. I too have studied greek and roman history... that must have been a pretty interesting chat room ^^

[Mec]

First off, I was resorting to 'name-calling' because you guys were first. I was trying to be more polite and courteous, but you just kept ignoring me or whatever you do, and YOU were the ones who began to name-call or whatever.

Examples?

Untill then STFU you are doing nothing but looking like an idiot.

you're just a simple child trying to act like you are wise

Slams the pacifier back in mecs mouth. SHUT UP ALREADY

you have common sense?

Zylia's been pretty polite actually. Thank you, but, I view people who argue against me as the same people, because they speak with one voice.


Awright, What do I want to do that I don't care about other people. I want the baby to live! I care about the baby! I also care about the mother, but she shouldn't be killing her baby, I'm going to protect the baby, because the mother doesn't need any protrection. Oh, yes, I'm about as considerate of gay people as I am of illegal druggies, because in my (I nicely underlined that for you Zylia), view they do what is wrong. I do not agree with what they do, I view them as I might have viewed the Japanese in WW2, as the enemy. This sounds awfully selfish, but if somebody does something you do not agree with (e.g. bomb pearl harbor) then you're not going to really be friendly to them.


You are calling me selfish because I am refusing to see YOUR point of view... I am referring to my religion as this is MY point of view. I say those 'abortion harms me' or whatever to demonstrate the point that abortion HARMS OTHER PEOPLE just for ONE PERSONS little reasons that doesn't really help anyone else.

I don't think its fair to invade someones right to choose their way of life.

*Mec rolls on the floor laughing at a not-well-though-out mockery of himself* Ok, then murderers should not be put in jail...

Because I'm an Athiest and choose not to follow a belief system you resort to name calling? I never called anyone specificely a stubborn donkey, I just said that is what comes to mind when I think of Atheist...

QUOTE 
Many, many kidnappings are done by gay people.

Anyone else just look at your screen and think "What the hell?" when you saw that?

Well it's true.

Your logic screams 'typical ignorant male.'

Oooh, resorting to 'name-calling'? 1.5 Million babies are aborted each year...


Social security?

This is the stuff you are given out of the workers paychecks to help you when you are in your old age. Abortion lessens the people that are working to pay for social security and so either the old people must have less, or the workers must have less.

~~~~Mecrenary of Q

P.S. Think before you guys post.---if you can.

P.S.S. People are gay because they CAN be. This is why caesar was gay, because he was in a position of power. I think the indian thing (I don't know much about it), but you are saying that homosexuals were regarded as 'holy' and given a special place of power. Who says it wasn't the other way around, they had power, so they could be gay?

Edited by Mec, 07 August 2004 - 04:14 PM.

[jurian]

 
Many, many kidnappings are done by gay people.

Anyone else just look at your screen and think "What the hell?" when you saw that?

Well it's true.

show me where it sais this?

[Wafer]

Mec, by your definition of what makes gay being wrong, in that the bits don't fit (which probably goes to explain why homosexuals are so obviviously frustrated), by extension I presume then that any sexual expression other than the act of procreation, is wrong as well?

In which case I pity your future girlfriends. I guess they'll be doing an awful lot of knitting.......

[jurian]

know what i think? mec is a homosexual!

let me explain why (mec this is all scientific stuff that has been researched before)

according to freud the human psyche has three facets:

the id: the source of instinctual energy
the ego: this seeks to channel the id tso that it's needs are expressed in socially exceptable ways.
the superego: the conscience.

these 3 are allways "fighting" with eachother as you probably understand (like the id wants something which is not socially exceptable so the ego has to fight it)
the 3 main reasons for anxiety to arise are:

fear that the id impulses will be uncontrollable
feeling of guilt about behavior or desires.
realistic fear about what is going to happen.

now because anxiety is in general unpleasant we try to avoid it.

freud discovered some defence mechanisms against anxiety which are among:

projection: we see in other ppl what we do not like in ourselves (you being gay)
denial: we pretend things are not as they really are (you being gay)
reaction formation: we deal with an unacceptable impulse by expressing its opposite (once again you have the impulse to have wild passionate sex with other guys)


thus you are extremely gay

thank you freud

edit: all this can be found in "Work psychology, understanding human behaviour in the workplace" written by John Arnold, Cary L Cooper and Ivan T Robertson, page 28

Edited by jurian, 07 August 2004 - 05:17 PM.

[Shera]

Mec I was the one that posted about the

the indian thing (I don't know much about it, but you are saying that homosexuals were regarded as 'holy' and given a special place of power.  Who says it wasn't the other way around, they had power, so they could be gay?

I AM saying that it wasnt that way. They were NOT in "power" before they were homosexual.

If you had bothered to google the terms I told you about to further educate yourself on the subject you would have known that. You would also know that in one of the berdache origin myths: "A young man became a berdache if and only if during his fasting vision quest, he was blessed by Moon and ordered by this spirit to "take up the skirt." If he failed to do this, it was thought that the moon would take his life." Here is where you can find some more information on that myth (which you wont use) http://hotcakencyclo...OriginMyth.html This is just one of the origin myths about them. I should probably explain to you what this myth is really saying or you might attempt to misconstrue it as well. The vision quests happened at least in some of the native american tribes, when a boy reached puberty. So it's saying when he reached puberty he decided that he wanted to well be a woman more then a man he was allowed to. He could mate with other men and have a woman's place in the tribe. Since he was blessed by the Moon (since he was born a man but lived as a woman) it was thought that he was more special, was more connected to the universe then a normal person. Only men could become chiefs so they did not have power they way you seemed to take what I said before.


Where did you get this Mec:

Many, many kidnappings are done by gay people.

Anyone else just look at your screen and think "What the hell?" when you saw that?

Well it's true.

I already told you I looked at the Center for missing and exploited childrens site and did NOT find any information on any kind of stats about that. Come up with some numbers are at least try to explain where you got that information.

Where did you come up with this:

Oooh, resorting to 'name-calling'?  1.5 Million  babies are aborted each year...

Zylia's been pretty polite actually.  Thank you, but, I view people who argue against me as the same people, because they speak with one voice.

Wth?!?!? Zylia is an aethiest, I believe in god or at least some higher power. Lady_Maha came from her point of view as a woman and as a mother. Lich tried to reason with you and show you his point of view in part based on his religion, his service in the armed forces and his emt experiences. How are any of those the same? Answer is they are NOT. For you to lump everyone together just because you did not like what they are saying is not fair to them nor is it fair to you. You miss out on a lot of different points of view that if you at least thought of where that person was coming from you would grow as a person. So much for do unto others are you would have them do unto you huh.

Mec: not that you are going to bother to read this or you even bother to think of what I said but there is in part a sociological explaination of our social security problems: we do NOT need to have as many children today as people did before the industrial revolution. People had many children then in part because they needed children to help them run their farms and because the infant mortality rates were so much higher then they are today. We dont work the land the same way we once did. We have machines that do a lot of what people used to do in farming. My aunt and uncle have a dairy farm. He does NOT have to milk the cows by hand anymore, they have machines to do it. They even have machines that feed the cows for him so he does not have to get up as early as he did 25 years ago to get the milk and feed the cows.
Now why dont you take a look at what Stotic said and other people have said about social security and actually THINK about what they have said. People have done you the curtisy to think about what you have, even if they disagree with it, why not do them the same curtisy? Oh and Zylia was correct about the overpopulation imo. Do you even know the rate of poverty and hunger around the world? LOOK it UP!

[Mec]

Well you all disagree with me and agree on everything and pretty much argue the same way. . . I don't really pay attention to WHO is posting against me, just what they are saying. Unfortunately for you, it's not that way.

About the Indians, I read the thingy and it seems that their religion allows them to be gay.

know what i think? mec is a homosexual!

Jurian, that has deeply offended me and I demand an apology.

I guarantee you, even if I am a 'gay' I WILL NOT, I REFUSE TO do those things, go hand yourself.


Umm, about me not showing my info? That's pretty well-known: I'll google it.
This place

Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the U.S. according to the Alan Guttmacher Institute.

I was off by 130,000, my bad. Still, if you round. . .

43% of women will have had at least one abortion by the time they are 45 years old.

I think that's pretty creepy

16% of Americans believe abortion should be legal for any reason at any time during pregnancy and 55% of American believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.

Haha, seems I'm not 'outnumbered'. .

Anyway, hopefully you won't go be stupid again and post some stupid argument like a rape case again, it's kind of getting boring.

Edited by Mec, 07 August 2004 - 10:14 PM.

[PureMourning]

Is there a gibberish translator in the house? I can't make head nor nail of that uber-babble you flung onto the screen during your latest spasmodic seizure. Try learning elementary grammar before attempting to inflict your next literary abomination on this message board.

If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to run an ant's go-kart around the inside of a donut. Clearly, the full area of your ignorance is not yet mapped. We are presently only exploring the fringes of that vast expanse. A long period of non-posting would be most welcome on your part. You bring to mind a quote from Josh Billing: "Doesn't know much, but leads the league in nostril hair."

Calling you dull is a gross underestimation of just how tedious you are. You have the personality of a damp sponge and the appeal of a moldy sweat sock. Why don't you close your mouth before someone sticks an apple in it? Maybe you wouldn't read like such a pathetic loser if you didn't have that botched back street lobotomy that left you that crisscrossed shoelace scar on your forehead; if your weren't so fat from all that cheap beer you spend your Welfare payments on that your belly jiggle is the first ever perpetual motion machine, or if you didn't have a face that could be used as an alternative to a stomach pump. No, come to think of it, you would.

You're a message board freak. I know it's hard to accept the truth, but the truth it is, and accept it, you must.

[Throwback]

Mec,


Shut up before I wire your eyeballs to a defibrillator; set the voltage to Kill, and smile as you go flying around the flashing coop like a beheaded multicolored, fire-farting chicken before collapsing conveniently at my feet so I can piss-out the flames and feed the remains of your fried gimp carcass to the pigs.


I agree with Rob.

[Lady_Maha]

Well Mec, here I go again...

First of all, demand your apology from Sigmund Freud, not Jurian, since all Jurian did was analyze you based on Freud's theories.

Second, what is STUPID about discussing abortion in rape cases? Rape happens more often than you think, even more often than abortions. It appears you show no sympathy for a woman who got raped because you view her as a birth machine.

I am sorry to break the fact to you that even women are humans with certain rights, and one of our rights is to CHOOSE who we have children with and who not. By raping a woman a man decides to strip her of that right and much more, therefor it is an important part of the abortion discussion.

Now about the gay rights again. You have stated that your religion disallows homosexuality. And that is fine for you and people who share your religion. However, other religions (mine being one of them) does not forbid homosexuality, therefor it is allowed. We have established that religion and government should not be mixed, therefor it would be wrong to force your religious beliefs upon the rest of the citizens =,since not all of them share your religion and the views that come with it.

Once again, live your religion, go by it's beliefs, if it makes you happy, but do not attempt to force it onto others.

[Mec]

rape cases aren't stupid, I've just said time and time again that, even if you are raped, that doens't justify the invasion of an unborn babies right to life. There you go.

Is there a gibberish translator in the house? I can't make head nor nail of that uber-babble you flung onto the screen during your latest spasmodic seizure. Try learning elementary grammar before attempting to inflict your next literary abomination on this message board.

If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to run an ant's go-kart around the inside of a donut. Clearly, the full area of your ignorance is not yet mapped. We are presently only exploring the fringes of that vast expanse. A long period of non-posting would be most welcome on your part. You bring to mind a quote from Josh Billing: "Doesn't know much, but leads the league in nostril hair."

Calling you dull is a gross underestimation of just how tedious you are. You have the personality of a damp sponge and the appeal of a moldy sweat sock. Why don't you close your mouth before someone sticks an apple in it? Maybe you wouldn't read like such a pathetic loser if you didn't have that botched back street lobotomy that left you that crisscrossed shoelace scar on your forehead; if your weren't so fat from all that cheap beer you spend your Welfare payments on that your belly jiggle is the first ever perpetual motion machine, or if you didn't have a face that could be used as an alternative to a stomach pump. No, come to think of it, you would.

You're a message board freak. I know it's hard to accept the truth, but the truth it is, and accept it, you must.

Haw haw, someone doesn't like you, Shera.

Shut up before I wire your eyeballs to a defibrillator; set the voltage to Kill, and smile as you go flying around the flashing coop like a beheaded multicolored, fire-farting chicken before collapsing conveniently at my feet so I can piss-out the flames and feed the remains of your fried gimp carcass to the pigs.

So, you're saying that I should NEVER cease to speak, because you will NEVER wire me eyebakks to a defibrillator, set the voltage to kill, and smile as I go flying around the flashing coop like a beheaded, multicolored, fire-farting chicken before collapsing convenietly at your feet so you can piss-out the flames and feed the remains of my fried himp carcass to the pigs.


Nah, people are gay because they can be, that's was I'm saying. If someone's culture or style of life allows homosexuality, then the homosexuals will be there simply because they can. If it was illegal or not very comfortable. there would naturally be fewer homosexuals simply because they can't. Since some people don't like what homosexuals do, and nobody's, to my knowledge, religion or belief say that they HAS to be homosexuals, then we should not have homosexuals, which will encourage their behaviour and needlessly cause discomfort to many.

Anyway, Jurian? A homosexual is a homosexual because of what they do, not who they are.

[Mec]

I am sorry to break the fact to you that even women are humans with certain rights, and one of our rights is to CHOOSE who we have children with and who not.

Then I should have the right to determine which men should die.

Logic?

Man = created equal + have unalienable right to life

unborn baby = man


since women can choose which babies die, I should choose which men die, simple as that.

[Redheart]

on the lighter side..........

whats up with the friggin price of gas??
Bush betta pull his head outta his ass !
Bring our troops home ASAP !!

Vote Kerry or no ketchup for you

[Teh_Fluff]

Uhm Mec PureMournings post was directed at you, not Shera and a baby doesn't really = a man, a man is a full grown adult male if I remember correctly and if a female is raped and is impregnanted they should definitely have the right to have an abortion as it could very well turn out to be just like the father or something, my thoughts are scrambled and not well organised which is I don't wish to post here much and make little sense.

I have something else to bring to this though, what are your views on the rare cases that a female is born in a males body? and goes through all the operations to become an actual female like they we're mean't to be? or just actual transexuals? what are they supposed to do? I have to say though, gays are not evil people and I know that for a fact as I have had gay friends a long with lesbian friends and they were all decent good people that hadn't caused no harm to anyone else.

Also by your logic of things, I should also be able to pick who gets to die right? Well how about I pick you? That seems like a rather fun thing ot do aye? No no I'm being stupid now, and also I would like to point out the fact to you that I am indeed not American and I actually believe my country is getting very close to letting homosexual couples get married, I'm un-sure of where that discussion got to and I'll look it up later on. I'll keep my mouth shut for now and hope that Mec gets some sense knocked into his peanut shell of a brain

[afireinside]

mec you have said countless times that gays choose to be gay, wheres your proof, all you are posting is your "opinion" not fact. you want proof that gay people dont choose well that proof is my existance.

[Shera]

Umm, about me not showing my info? That's pretty well-known: I'll google it.

Well I had no idea where you were getting your information considering you are not very good about providing any kind of support.

I honestly did not know that that many abortions were performed in the US in a year. So I googled the topic myself and found out that abortions in 1997 were at a 20 year low! I got that information here: http://www.abortionc...20-year_low.htm
Now your website had the number of abortions reportedly performed for each year from 1973 to 1996. If you will take a look at that you will notice that abortions in 1996 were lower then they were since 1978! In fact they had steadly been going down since 1990. So taking that into consideration Mec now explain your social security theory. According to your theory less abortions would mean more money for social security. Explain it to me Mec. Then take a look at the number of homeless children in the US. Here I'll make it easy for you: http://www.nationalh...rg/numbers.html or http://www.cwla.org/...09educating.htm
Ya I can see why you're saying that we need to bring more children into this world to support you when you get old Now add these homeless children to the number of children that are in foster care (the ones that are in need of permanent placement) once you have found all of those children homes with people who love them, then and only then imo at least, you should be able to complain about social security and people to take care of you when you are old.

Have you even read the entire DoI as you called it? You quoted it, however I do not think you really understand it. Read it Mec, really read it: http://www.ushistory...ument/index.htm
Then check the constitution for a definition of marriage: http://www.house.gov...nstitution.html
There is none, which I'm sure you are award of considering it's a pretty hot topic of discussion at the moment among the politicos. I mean the Bush proposed constitutional marriage amendment. I would hope that you are aware of what happened to it in the Senate, if not well it essentially died there. Personally I think the entire idea of the amendment and of the Defense of Marriage Act violates the constitution and the DoI. In large part because there is no legal reason for homosexuals to not be allowed to marry, it's a theological debate not a legal one. It violates the separation of church and state.

[Stotic]

Social security?

This is the stuff you are given out of the workers paychecks to help you when you are in your old age. Abortion lessens the people that are working to pay for social security and so either the old people must have less, or the workers must have less.

Things aren't as simple as bread and butter in American government. Try reading my prior post that addressed your concerns on social security. I'm still finding it humorous that someone your age cares about social security unless your just trying to find more things for your argument. Can we just call it a day and just send the rest of America's unwanted children to your house? Your parents would be awfully proud!

[Lich]

Trys to decide what to do since he has said all he is planning to say to the bigott, see`s he has been accused of starting it and decides he will point out that yes he did start it.

But i started it because of only one reason it workedit got yourattention you were finally forced to answer what i was saying and I could care less what you think anymore i will let everyoneelse take their turns destroying all your theorys.


To shera sorry hun I confused you and charon on my post, smiles i was a tad bit tired at the, but i have enjoyed reading your posts and agree withyou totally.

To Charon the subject of the chat room was fantastic at one point we spawned over 14 chatrooms rping along the subject lines egypt persia a viking room and more but there was just to much dramafrom all involved and I eventually left and closed the room. If you ever get boared and want to talk about it let me know and we will.

Decides to sit down and work on his book some more.

[Lady_Maha]

I am sorry to break the fact to you that even women are humans with certain rights, and one of our rights is to CHOOSE who we have children with and who not.

Then I should have the right to determine which men should die.

Logic?

Man = created equal + have unalienable right to life

unborn baby = man


since women can choose which babies die, I should choose which men die, simple as that.

Mec, you appearently can only read selectively. We (that excludes you) have established that a lump of cells is NOT a person with the constitutional right yet. It is a fertilized egg that proceeded to divide a few times forming a lump of cells which on their own are uncapable of living.

A MAN is a breathing, living being that can survive without being attached to someone else's body.

Hence you can't compare murder to abortion. MURDER is illegal, ABORTION is not.

As for homosexuals being what they are because they are allowed, wrong again Mec. There were homosexuals in places and times where homosexuality was punishable by law. They could not HELP being homosexual, because it has nothing to do with choice. The nazis killed homosexuals in their concentration camps, yet those people did not "choose" to become straight. If it was a choice, when facing death, wouldn't you think they would have chosen differently?

Fact is, homosexuals have always been around in all cultures at all times. The only difference was their environment and how they were received. In certain cultures they were allowed to "out themselves" and live their sexuality openly, in others they had to hide what they were because they were facing punishment.

Edited by Lady_Maha, 08 August 2004 - 09:48 AM.

[Zylia]

Can we just call it a day and just send the rest of America's unwanted children to your house?  Your parents would be awfully proud!

I second that motion.

[Mec]

A MAN is a breathing, living being that can survive without being attached to someone else's body.

. . .once moment please. . .

man: human regardless of sex or age; a person

Person: A living human. Often used in combination: chairperson; spokesperson; salesperson.

Doggonit! Stupid thing.


Ooook. Is the fetus created? Yes. That's all I have to say about that:

Next: Awright, planning an arment:

Ok, you said something about a fetus being 'part of the woman's body'.

My arm is part of my body, I would classify it as living.

Ooooops, it can't reproduce, I think it's not living then. It's the same with my brain, heart, toes, and all my organs. I sure would think they're living, but it turns out they are not. No, a part of a living thing is indeed living. So the baby is living, and therefore is a person, and therefore is a man, and therefore has an unalienable right to life. Now, you say according to that logic your arm is a person. Quite frankly, yes it is. If you stepped on ones arm, you might say "I stepped on someone somebody some person". I think a person's arm has an unalienable right to life, I mean, it's illegal to chop off an innocent person's arm.


Now, Lich, you said that if a born human showed the same signs as an unborn baby, it wouldn't even be given life support. My dead grandpa is a person. He is not living now, but he WAS living and I would call him a person.

What's the real difference between WAS living and WILL BE living?


Anyway: I still have ONE question that I BEEEEGGG to be answered in the next post:

What's wrong with murder?

I haven't had time to answer all of your, be back in 2 hours.

[Zylia]

Whats wrong with murder?

Mur´der Pronunciation: mûr´dẽrd
n. 1. The offense of killing a human being with malice prepense or aforethought, express or implied; intentional and unlawful homicide.

Abortions tend to not have malice in them. They are used to protect a womans health both physically and mentally.

Murder is basically taking the life of another with a motive, usually as a result of anger toward the other person. Murder causes hurt for the people around them. By this I mean.. it hurts someone to have a loved one, who they've known for years, be killed. Murder doesn't save anyone. Murder only causes pain.

Now Mec, I see this coming from a mile away. 'Oh *whine* abortion hurts me!' No, actually. It wont physically or emotionally hurt you if some random stranger gets an abortion. You know what Mec? You need to be more concerned with yourself, living your OWN life. If someone who lives 10,000 miles away from you wants an abortion how will that affect you? Or is this gonna go along with the idea that gays are gay because 'its becoming popular'? From what I've heard, having an abortion is not a fun experience.

You know why it seems nowadays they're so many more gay/lesbians around? Ever heard of coming out of the closet? More and more are coming out because now they don't need to hide due to rejection from the public. Thats why. If you're born gay, you'll feel that way your entire life. The thing is, some choose to live a lie and reject their natural feelings while others, seeing as in todays world it is much more widely accepted, will come out and show that they aren't afraid to be who they are.

[Charon]

I haven't read this thread properly yet, and I apologise for that, and I shall go and read it in a moment.

Mec... you love quoting that dictionary, but you refused to acknowledge the 'dictionary' definition of age that I posted. Why was that?

What's wrong with murder?

There are ideological arguements against murder, there are moral arguements, there are biological arguements... perhaps in a moment I shall type some of those out

I happen to have many views on the subject, but the view which strikes most poignantly at this moment is expressed in words other than my own, and I know you'll find some way to turn these words against me, but I really don't care ^^

Because there is always someone who would grieve

The reason why you shouldn't kill people... is because there's someone who would cry just like you (skips forward a page) There's not a soul whose death doesn't go unfelt. There will always be someone who would grieve... friend or stranger. That's why no one should take a life

Edited by Charon, 08 August 2004 - 04:07 PM.

[Mec]

Awright!

So, if there was some unpopular someone who nobody likes and no-one would grieve if he died, it would be OK?

Many times, when an abortion is done, the parent's feel guilt for the rest of their lives. I don't know about you, but I just can't stand guilt. This is one of the reasons I don't like school, because there's always some big project I need to do hanging over me and I feel guilty. I'd rather feel sorrow than guilt. There goes it for mental health.

Anyway, I can't argue with crying makes murder wrong. That's an excellent reason.

Mec... you love quoting that dictionary, but you refused to acknowledge the 'dictionary' definition of age that I posted. Why was that?

Didn't see it. . . looking for it now.

Anyway, about age? I would say that a rock's age is something million years old or something. Has a rock been born? No. Multiple definitions I believe, how can we ever be sure of what someone means?

Coming out of the closet? There's no evidence of that. I don't even think it's probable. My 'rationalization' umm 'theory' comes to mind. . .

Anyway, you said that the baby is considered part of the mothers body, so is her arm. It's not going to be in the best interest of her 'physical health' to cut off her arm.

There was this one movie I watched once. . . I forget the name, but the one lady, she becomes pregnant and has her child, but he's a bit more plump and it umm. . . 'ruins' her physical appearance, and so she decides not to have any more children because of that. That strikes me as selfish and stupid. . . We're all going to eventually die anyway, i'd rather pass on my traits and personality through my children to prolong myself than try to prolong myself through a longer life. I'm going to die someday, and I have no problem with that. Others might, but my children will be there to comfort them.

[Charon]

So, if there was some unpopular someone who nobody likes and no-one would grieve if he died, it would be OK?

I argue simply that you would never find such a person.
Noone is that unpopular... or that unknown.

A brutal murderer who has commited that wrong against others... say s/he gets put to death somewhere where capital punishment is legal. Someone will still grieve for him or her. They may despise what they did, but someone out there will pity them, and be sorry that they died.

Likewise someone completely unknown, perhaps a child who has been abandonned outside a house/police station/hospital... wherever, if they die the person who finds them will be the one to grieve even if they never had someone to love them while they were alive.

Perhaps, if someone had been missing for a long time, (perhaps homeless?) someone might not know they had died, might not know grieving was due... but such a person would likely have been grieving their loss already anyway

I'm absolutely convinced that you could never find a person that would have noone to grieve if they died.

We're all going to eventually die anyway, i'd rather pass on my traits and personality through my children to prolong myself than try to prolong myself through a longer life.

I personally consider it rather selfish to use your children as a way to prolong your own fame. In fact I consider it a horrible reason to have children.
And I sincerely hope you'll give those children enough room to gain their own traits and interests

Moving back, yet again, to abortion:
As Zylia and... well almost everyone on this thread has said, people don't have an abortion for the sake of it. It's not a decision they take lightly and they don't have an abortion because they think its going to be a fun idea... people have abortions because there are instances when they are necessary.

Anyway, you said that the baby is considered part of the mothers body, so is her arm. It's not going to be in the best interest of her 'physical health' to cut off her arm

There are cases I can think of where it would certainly be in her best interests to have her arm amputated.
The fact is that while amputation would be a terrible thing it is sometimes necessary and it isn't murder. You don't "kill" someone's arm if you chop it off...




Oh yes, Shera- thankyou for posting that link to Dieterle's Berdache piece, I found it a very interesting read on a subject I knew next to nothing about
Lich- I may well take you up on that and try and talk to you about it some time ^^ And just being nosey, but what's your book about?

Edited by Charon, 08 August 2004 - 07:22 PM.

[Lich]

Lich- I may well take you up on that and try and talk to you about it some time ^^ And just being nosey, but what's your book about?

Its actually from rp done in nightmist, Its called broken a thousand times before, Its based in nightmist with rps done in the creation of broken and a compltly rped and madeup war between the goddess zephie of nature and rangers and the god of Necromancers and death Pandilex hold on here is the link for the test parts.





The world of Nightmist is a dark and dangerous place
and it just got worse. Pandilex the god of the dead and Necromancer's has unleashed a plot to take over the world and rule the plain of the gods. Many have tried to stop him and many more will. but in the end it will take five friends or will it. Read this work by an unknown artist and enjoy a world and a time all but forgotten.

Can be found under the Fantasy topics. Began being wrighten in July 03 and the chapters will go up as theya re finished being edited.


test book pages


Once Jasmine finishes the editing because with my dislexia as you see in alot of my posts I have problems when i sit infront of this thing to long, I will put it all up in its whole form, had gotten an offer topublish it but unfortunetly you the author have to pay for printing and alot of other stuffup front and get it back as the book sells, but im poor so i will just make it an ebook for nowand see what happens.

[Metatron]

Anyway: I still have ONE question that I BEEEEGGG to be answered in the next post:

What's wrong with murder?

Why are you being so ignorant? I have already answered that question pages ago, you even made, what I suppose you could call a rebuttal if it were a proper debate. So why I ask do you still ask an answered question?

Edit: Sorry I got annoyed and skipped reading the other posts but i'd still like to make my point.

Edited by Metatron, 08 August 2004 - 09:11 PM.

[Zylia]

He selectively decides to overlook the answers unless they suit his opinion.