324 replies to this topic

[Mec]

Slams the pacifier back in mecs mouth. SHUT UP ALREADY .. .. You are one of three if not all of the things Im about to say.


One you are a child who has never known, met or seen a women a who has been raped. You have no clue about what it is like to be raped. None what so ever.


Two you are a Bible fanatic lesson one. we are not all christian the world is not wrapped in a tiny little package of a book. Hell that book alone contradicts half of everything you have said in this post.

So as of right now im going to ask everyone to ignore Mecs childish attemps at debate. He is a moron and nothing more. You will get no debate nor will you get any sence in him. He is a fanaic read my last quoted post for a definition.

As for morality I dont believe it is morally right to sit on a forum and tell people that they are not right with god. Because of two reasons one you are not god or my goddess therefore you have no right what so ever to speak for them.

Next you arent even talking from the bible since the bible doesn't speak of abortion as it didnt exist when men wrote the damn thing and claimed yes i said CLAIMED that it was a bok wrighten by god. Untill the day god himself steps out of heaven taps me on the shoulder and says hey it is my word STFU you are a child and nothing more.

To the rest of you please ignore him and lets have a decent political talk with out religion as politics and religon are illegal to mix. if anyone wants a true deba i will even be nice enough to take mecs side and you keep mine and we will actually debate facts and no religos rederic.

ROFL just noticed that's only two. I think you need the paccifier.

[afireinside]

the thing is mec you said in one of your post that gay people cant have a kid and its "not supposed to be that way" according to what? your little book the bible? some people dont realize this but the bible was written by MAN not god, just because some homophobe wrote the bible doesnt mean they are correct.

[Mec]

Common sense says so.

[afireinside]

you have common sense?

[Zylia]

Words cannot describe my current rage for Mec. If your going to call me Selfish for the SelfLESS things I said, please do read the ENTIRE post. Thank you.

Also, if you're gonna try to argue with someone present some facts ---
And let these facts in no way relate to those of the book the Bible, which has absolutely no scientific backing.

I would also love to know how old you really are Mec. I am 18 years old. As a female and understanding that one day I will be a mother, I want my future child to come into the world with a mother and a father and a purpose. Sit here and think for a moment Mec. 10 years from now you have a child with your loving wife. Your child when she turns 15 goes out with some friends to see a movie. She wanders off to get some popcorn or something and is cornered by a man and dragged off to the bathroom, her mouth being covered so that no one can hear her scream. She is raped, beaten, everything imaginable. When she comes home to you, your fifteen year old flesh and blood, crying and broken, she begins feeling sick and 2 weeks later finds out she's pregnant from the rape. Would you want your own flesh and blood carrying around a constant reminder that she was used in the fowlest manner? At 15 years old a pregnancy can ruin someones life. She would miss school, she would miss out being with her friends. But she can't have an abortion because its murder in your eyes. She can't have an opportunity to be happy because its not right for the small cluster of cells in her body. And if your going to tell me that an age limit should be posted on abortions please do not tell me this. Say your daughter would be 20 if you have a gripe about the minor status. Shes entering her third year of college, smart girl, high grades - will most likely make something out of her life. She is raped and becomes pregnant, forcing her to miss out on college and miss out on her friends because she is forced to carry a constant reminder of how her rights were violated. And worst of all the child wasn't wanted and WAS a mistake.

If I was a child of rape and knew that I would feel like I was a mistake every day of my life even if my mother harped on me that I was the best thing that happened to her. You know why? Because it never should've happened.

Mec don't even say a word to me about what I just said unless you have read that paragraph in its entirety.

You have problems if your comparing homosexuals to murderers. Being in love and expressing that love -IN PRIVATE- is not comparable to murder. It is not wrong. You are the most self-righteous conservative christian/catholic or whatever I have ever met and you need to realize that gays and lesbians have nothing to do with your life. They get married, they live together, they don't bother you. Why moose up their lives because you want to be all high and mighty on the Bible?


Kerry is not a fool either. I wont say that he is going to be the best president ever, I realize that he isn't. Answer me a question Mec. In the past four years, how have each of these areas become better or how they have made things better? Feel free to say how they have made things worse as well if anyone else would like to reply:

___These are in no particular order___
Homeland Security:
Environment:
Social Security:
National Debt:
Taxes:
Education:
Economy:
Terrorism/War:
Gun Control:
Women's Rights:
Trade:
Worldwide Relationships:
Health Care:
Civil Liberties:
The Patriot Act:

Don't just pick and chose the ones that you think are great, answer honestly and answer all of them. If you don't know about one area just say 'not sure' or something. I'm just a bit curious to see why Mec is so anxious to say that Kerry is a fool when Mr. Bush sure is making a monkey out of himself (pun definatley intended )

[Mec]

Well, I haven't the statistics to say the things.. go ahead everyone else. I can say that MY life has, at least, improved during when bush is in office.



As for how old I am? I'll leave that for you to decide for yourself.

I never said you were selfish, actually.

I just said that abortion is a selfish thing, I gave an example and I said 'you' because.. well... I don't like saying 'fred' or whatever. I'm sorry about my umm, poor umm, phrasing.


I just can't see why having a child would make life horrible for people! Most and many people do enjoy their children!

I'm sure that I would love to have a granddaughter, and if my child was having hard times, I would do the best of my ability to help her through it. If I was in debt, and was forced to put the child up for adoption, I would make sure it was an open adoption and remain close to the child, no point in leaving a sense of guilt.

So pretty much, it would be difficult, but it wouldn't turn out so bad in the end. As for the feeling of horror and dread and whatever in my daughter? That would be there anyway, even if she had not had an abortion. My daughter's social life? I don't know about that, I have no social life.

I would handle the situation like that.

Please answer my "what makes murder wrong question".

edit: About the child feeling as if he was a mistake... I could have been a mistake for all I know! In fact, I might have been. My mom only wanted 4 kids ;-).


People treat alchoholics and smokers differently than they treat other people because of their practices. The same thing applies to gays.

If someone picks their nose and eats it, you're going to not want him around you, correct?

Edited by Mec, 31 July 2004 - 01:16 AM.

[afireinside]

you chose to be an alcoholic or whatever, but people dont generally chose to be gay, i didnt. i was born this way, so you are going to discriminate someone because of the way they were born? gay people have no control over if they want to be straight or not because they cannot lie about love. why dont you walk a day in my shoes before you tell me who i am.

you're just a scared little homophobe and probably gay yourself but cant admit it for some reason that i dont care about, so you lash out at gay people because you are jealous. we arent doing anything wrong, you dont like booger eaters then fine dont associate with them but dont try and make a law to get rid of their rights ( that was a metaphore if you didnt get that, which you probably didnt because you are so thick headed)

Edited by afireinside, 31 July 2004 - 05:30 AM.

[Zylia]

Mec, I asked you to say how one or any of those things made our country better. If you were old enough to actually tune into what the future was going to bring to your life (such as taxes, education (funding for tuition if you are in your late teens and such) you would know how to answer at least one of those. At least! Here's my opinion on them.

Women's Rights - has more been discussed with Bush's ban on Partial-Birth Abortions (which I am completely for mind you, I'm for abortions... but not ones where a fetus who is almost full term is terminated.) The rest of the abortion area I have discussed previously.

Social Security too. The way we're headed right now, the social security funding that is currently available will be gone by the time I, being 18 now, am reaching my retirement age.

The Patriot Act - Anyone can and will be arrested if they are even suspected of being a terrorist and will be held at all costs with no opportunity for appeal. No lawyers to my understanding are allowed either. They are a prisoner of the United States government due to suspicion alone.

The Economy - I realize that Bush cannot be blamed entirely for the economy, but he does hold some of the blame. This in my opinion can walk hand in hand with Tax Cuts. The Tax Cuts that we experienced under this administration were for the wealthiest Americans in the country. Don't get me wrong, someone who makes over $200,000 a year really really does need a larger chunk of change than they're already making. <sarcasm> Most people don't stop to think, if Bush would've given tax cuts to the other 95% of the world and raised taxes on the wealthy, it would've been more likely to spark the economy. If you or me, say making $20,000-30000 a year alone were given $1,500 would you go out and spend it? If a multi-millionaire is given a tax cut of $800,000, do you think they'll be more likely to go out and spend it? Its about sparking the economy not giving the richest percentage of the country MORE money than they really will ever need. Now he wants to make these things permenant? When these tax cuts first were made, the Average Middle Class American was intended to receive $1,500 from the Government under these tax cuts. My mother and father never saw this money. In fact I think they barely received $300 from the government. Yesterday I discovered why. When the Bush administration avereaged the tax cuts, they figured in the tax cuts for the wealthiest americans as well. This raised the average tremendously when the reality of it was much much lower. What an intelligent administration (from the get go nonetheless).

National Debt - Clinton created the largest surplus in the history of America. In four years, Bush took the largest surplus in our history and turned it into our largest deficit. How? Tax Cuts, un-needed wars in Iraq... Bush is too concerned with whats going on beyond our borders to care whats happening though. Our economy isn't getting much better.
The 3 million some jobs that Bush is promising to bring are not nice office chair jobs that pay $15+/hr. They are like my job. For the summer I'm working in a Steel Manufacturing Factory. I work all day for $7/hr, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, sweat, get splinters and cuts. I've had things fall on me and give me bruises. Its not a nice clean job. My cousin works at a local grocery store for $6.40 an hour. He works for less than 20-25 hours a week also having to pay his union dues. This is fine and dandy for someone like me or my cousin who are working to save up a little pocket change for college, but $6.40/hr will not support a family. These jobs that are being created aren't well paying, aren't clean, aren't enough hours to profit. Bush's job promise means nothing to me.

The war in Iraq - I kind of cringe attempting to show my viewpoint on this. I have seen Fahrenheit 9/11 and I can't say that I fully support all that Michael Moore presents to the public. I do however think it is very peculiar if all of the ties that he showed to us Americans are true. Bush's family seems to have a lot of ties to the Middle East. His administration members are a bunch of family friends and business partners. Now onto the actual War. I feel that the war in Afghanistan WAS justified. It was justified... but we didn't finish the job. Know why we didn't finish the job? Look a few countries over. Saddam apparently, with his invisible WMD's was more of a threat to us than the people who already hit us. Personal Vendetta's are my personal opinion, but lets give Bush some slack now. Apparently the CIA was wrong, not Bush. Either way... Bush should've looked into it a lot more in that case. You aren't handed a letter that says 'Hey Saddam has weapons here here and here' and just sign the war papers based on that. Bush should've asked where our proof was and verified it fully. War isn't just our nation versus their nation. I think that is how Bush sees it. The military in his eyes is just a bunch of statistics and numbers. Anyone ever played a strategy game like Age of Empires? When you do play them, you recklessly send your horsemen and swordsmen into the enemy. They are killed, so what do you do? Make more and send more. Bush needs to realize that all of the people he is sending over to Iraq, most of them my age, have families, have feelings, and especially if they are barely 21, have a lot to live for!
All of the billions of dollars that we've spent on destroying things and then having to rebuild them in Iraq is nuts. Our homeland security clearly needs more funding and attention but we're too busy destroying Iraq too fix our problems at home.
And we're all suffering for it. Not to mention most of the world is looking down on us now.

Either I'm not sure about the other areas (which I will admit to) or I have discussed them in previous posts. Now Mec, If you are of a legal age to vote, I think you could at least explain one of these without a Biblical backing answer. I'll decide how old you are now. I think you are no more than 15 from the way you act. I acted like I knew everything and everything I knew was right at 15 so I'll say that much.

I honestly doubt that you will attempt to give me a reasonable answer though. Maybe I should stop wasting my time.

[Mec]

I'd say that my family is about middle class, and we've recieved our tax cuts all right.

Look, first some of you say that Bush KNEW about 9/11 and did nothing. Now you are complaining about the security! Hmm.

The collapse in social security is due to abortion.

The deficit is because of the (imo) fully justified war; Bush had every reason to believe that Saddam was getting, umm, bad ideas into his head. Since Saddam was obviously either

1. Ready to start producing WoMs

2. Had already begun to produe WoMs



I'd think that the civil war was justified, eh? People who have no voice are being oppressed (Iraqis, unborn babies)? I would think that would be more of an issue than 'economics' or 'social security'.

[Mec]

you chose to be an alcoholic or whatever, but people dont generally chose to be gay, i didnt. i was born this way, so you are going to discriminate someone because of the way they were born? gay people have no control over if they want to be straight or not because they cannot lie about love. why dont you walk a day in my shoes before you tell me who i am.

you're just a scared little homophobe and probably gay yourself but cant admit it for some reason that i dont care about, so you lash out at gay people because you are jealous. we arent doing anything wrong, you dont like booger eaters then fine dont associate with them but dont try and make a law to get rid of their rights ( that was a metaphore if you didnt get that, which you probably didnt because you are so thick headed)

No, Gay people aren't 'born' that way.

If they were, how come there weren't any gays like.... a few hundred years ago?


Oh and the

we arent doing anything wrong

?

In my opinion, you ARE.

[Lich]

OK you asked for it.

Fact being gay is not a choice all the time.

Over 95% of gay people are that way naturally. All people reguardless of sex are born naturally Bi sexual With in your body are two chemicals that decide your sexuality.

testosterone for men

Estrogen for women

If this balance if you are male you recieve more testosterone, when female you recieve more Estrogen, In 95% of gay people those who have not just chosen to be that way There lvls ar usally reversed. An event that ocures naturally and is that way at birth.


Well at least you are aswering my poss finally since you have chosen to ignore them up to this point. You are a child You ask in your post have any of us been raped how do we know.

You would not have had to ask that question at all had you read anything said to you before that. Yes Some of thse replieing to you have been raped and had to live though what it is like. I am maried to a womn who lived through it.

i also have a cousin who was forced not only to live with the rape but also forcd to give birh to the baby. I have posted more than enough stastics to suport why the law is the way it is and you ignore that.



I have called you a child because during all your posts you have showed no physical proof as to what you say. You simple said it is not that way naturally. You have ignored every post that has shown physical proof. In fact you have given not one single Thought out aguement. I say STFU because you are not possing any smart arguements at all.

Untill you do then i will not reply to you any longer and i will still ask all on this forum to simply ignore him.. KAT YOU TO. I know this makes you angry but as you can see we have been showing him proof for 6 pages.

[Mec]

This can't be true because: THERE WEREN'T GAY PEOPLE A FEW CENTURIES AGO!

About me ignoring your posts? I've read most of them, and then post what I want to say. They're awfully hard to read though, you might want to consider taking a few english classes...


Humm, I don't agree with you, I must not be posting 'smart' arguments.

And you have been showing me proof? Proof of what?

Post all your 'proof' one one post, and I'll gladly tell you why it's false or irrelevant.

[Shera]

This can't be true because: THERE WEREN'T GAY PEOPLE A FEW CENTURIES AGO!

Actually there were. There were homosexuals in ancient greece. Among some Native American tribes homosexual men and apparently some women are well, were given special places in the tribe. They were reveared and thought of as basically being holy people. Again if you wish for proof of what I'm saying I'll post it. Just let me know

Edit: Oh and they are called berdache or "two-spirits." I'm sure the different tribes that had them might have called them someone different but those are just terms that you can use to look them up on the net and in books and get information. Just in case you wanna like google it or something.

Edited by Shera, 31 July 2004 - 08:58 PM.

[Lich]

I had to make two posts since the board would not allow me to place all the info in just one. As for my needing english lessons I am dislexic and no amount of lessons will help me since it is not pelling that is the problem it is the fact that the letters jump around while trying to read them.
Besides i have had more of life than most so im not worried since i have lived in more countries, Fought three wars for the US and survived cancer im happy i can just be here typing the way i do.



Next only you seem to have a problem so I sugest reading slowly.



The roman empire was famous for its gay and Bisexual population. In fact the greatest Emperor in its history was a well known Bisexual. He always had two men and two women on staff when he wished to enjoy his sexual pleasure. The emperors name Julieus Ceasar.

Also the Roman emperor Galigula Ceasar was famous for having three sets of sexual shows troops one gay female, one gay male, and one hetero sexual. Because he enjoed the simple showing of pleasurethat they recieved in the sex act and he loed to watch he was known as the Voyer emperer. A movie that contained explicit sex scenes and rated X baring his name was released in the 80s, but it did not start out to be a porn it was orianally made to be a documentary showing his life. It was rated X and then the director was made to remove all scenes of gay and lesbian sex because americans find that offensive.

But it doesnt change the fact that it was there, No it is not because you disagree with me that I say your arguements are not true or valid. I say that because they are not arguements based on fact or on any presented evidence. You are young but even you should be able go on yahoo and get something. But you do not so therefore i come to the only belief that it is religon based and therfore not a valid arguement.

Edited by Lich, 31 July 2004 - 09:12 PM.

[Lich]

OK abortion is the reason our population is falling. WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i know a few other things you keep forgetting shut up let me type this. Sticks mecs passy in.


Ok lets see in the last ten years our population has dropped i found one statistic showing that in the last ten years the population has dropped by 6.2 millon people give or take a few hundred thousand.

So lets break this down shall we.

The murder ratio for the last ten years, 3 millon.

Death by accidents 1.5 millon.

Death by natural causes this of coarse is an estamate as are all of them on the website I found it all. 1.1 million people, Im still wondering how you get a .1 of a person.
and last but not least Abortion which experts say is responsable for .1 millon of the population reason decrease. the website also goes on to say that it is also due to the fact more people are using protection during sex as well.

So please stop using that Arguement because i see no proof that Abortion is a freat risk over all the others, Also Please stop saying that we all agree that because I see 5 people sayinf the opposite of you and one saying he agrees with you and that is you.

What did the baby ever do? It's innocent. You did it too, nobody aborted you! The child DESERVES to live!

It didnt do anything in fact it hasnt had brain waves, heart movements or anything thing else for that matter the only one even calling it a baby is you. It is not considered alive untill it has done any or all of the things i listed in my post above but since you have ignored them, and i believe because you are to scared to answer the fact that i have actually posted statistic's, posted you answers directly out of the EMT handbook to discerning life, and I think you are to scared to answer them as you are unable to.

Yes we refer to the baby as apart of the mother just like her arm, because in esence untill he day that it is capable of showing any one of the Signs of human life, Again posted in the post you ignored it is nothing more than just that. If there was something wrong with your arm, or your arm was injured to the point of being dead and your doctor deemed it was bad for your mental health to leave un removed he would. well a fetus is the same.

Your age matters in this case because your arguements are childish and therefore i will talk to you as though you are a child untill you speak and act other wise. There now you may throw in your typical but its a baby. since that is all you have been able to say since the start of this thread.


Edit:made it sound more confrontational since he has ignored all other attempts at a decent debate

...

Abbortion is not murder when it is performed with in the legal limits, all the instances of actions that your Sister did and you brought to this forum do not come untill after the legal cut off. In the first trimester the baby doesn't have a heart beat. (Clinically dead), There is no movement (Physically dead), and lastly there is no brain activity at all. (brain dead). If an adult was looked at and found to have these three points they would be subject to disconection of life support, and never attached to it in the first place if they showed any of them before being attached.

I am also a maryland state Emergency medical tech, When you call us to your house because your mother stopped breathing we will not even start CPR if one of three things accure. The releasing of the bowes(meaning they have crapped on your floor), Their heart shows a flat line on the cardio(It is not the movies that flat line doesnt mean shock. It means I hope you have kissed your ass goodbye, no amount of shocking will bring you back.


Next even if you classify it as a human life. Which i wont do untill it has met with the things above. Untill it is 18 years of age it's parents or guardians are incontrol of its total existance. Incuding its life or death, What do i mean by that? Did you know that on a child under 18 if you are in a vegitative state there is brain activity(something not diplayed in a fetus) your guardians can remove you from life support and do what is called breath or die. You cant breath on your own you die fully. Using that logic if outside of the womb the fetus doesnt breath on its own it dies.

You have so obviously never in your life so much as met a women who has been raped and discovered they are pregnate. Let me tell you what making her carry a baby for nine full months will do to her as I have not only met one I was related.


The first reaction she will have to it is God no please dont do this to me. Simple reaction because she is still numb from the shock of being forced to do something she didnt want in the first place. You have just added to this the fact that now for nine months she has carry around a constant reminder of what was done to her she is not allowed to heal at all. She can not even attempt to put it behind her for NINE months because as her belly grows so does the memorie of what exactly put it there.

Next reaction She will not want to look at herself in a mirror because she will see her belly growing and again will be forced to remeber, again something she desperatly wants to put behind her.

She will then begin to heard crying in her room cursing the baby and the man that put it there.

She will then try and kill herself and the baby inside her because those feelings are to much for her.

Before you even attempt to say this is a one in a millon case. A poll taken last year of 2000 women who were raped and for what ever reason either couldnt or wouldnt abort only 500 made it to to actually give birth. To me i think that is endangering the life of mother and baby.


DO YOU EVEN WATCH THE NEWS!!!! or are you just being ignorant because you can.

When we even threatned war over WMD he came out and said he had none. The weapons inspectors who went into Iraq to begin with stated 6months before we attacked that there were no weapons in Iraq. The UN's major contrys all said they would not go with us because of those weapon inspector reports. Blair and Bush ignored them saying that they had proof of exactly where they were. (Cnn report posted in november of last year on cnn. com.)

The US wrote the rules of the UN to eclare war. Blair and Bush then ignored those rules and tried to use presures to force the countrys to go with them.

There never were WMD we did not go because we beleived Sadam we went because Bush and blair told us Lies. We accused Germany France and a host of others who said no we would not help of cowerdice and turning on their allys. The whole time they were saying no we do not believe you we believe the UN weapons inspectors and who was right not the US.

Edited by Lich, 31 July 2004 - 09:09 PM.

[Cule]

oh my god is this still going on?

[Metatron]

Please answer my "what makes murder wrong question".

If someone picks their nose and eats it, you're going to not want him around you, correct?

Mec what makes murder wrong is that you prevent someone else from living against their will, most people would be against someone doing this and that is why they are out raged ---- Go on try to argue that, you cant can you? because that would make you a hipocrite (sp?) because you say that bing gay is wrong but give no other reason that because it is.

And if you can not just like someone because they have a particular personal practise they you can apply that to anything, so therefore i dont like you because for example you play nm.
A persons personal practises arre what make them individual and if you are agianst that then you must just want eveyone to be exactly the same but even the church ahs said that every single person is different.

[Mec]

First of all, I just don't buy the 'we were born that way' thingy. Perhaps there were homosexuals a long time ago, you don't just hear about them. I think it's just rationalization, they WANT to do something, so they make up excuses for it. Males are male, Females are females. Males ARE NOT females.

There never were WMD we did not go because we beleived Sadam we went because Bush and blair told us Lies. We accused Germany France and a host of others who said no we would not help of cowerdice and turning on their allys. The whole time they were saying no we do not believe you we believe the UN weapons inspectors and who was right not the US.

Clinton told us lies too!

The weapons inspectors were allowed to search SOME places on certain days, others on others. Saddam could have been moving 'em around and probably was. Saddam has, what, 32 palaces?

[Mec]

Mec what makes murder wrong is that you prevent someone else from living against their will, most people would be against someone doing this and that is why they are out raged ---- Go on try to argue that, you cant can you? because that would make you a hipocrite (sp?) because you say that bing gay is wrong but give no other reason that because it is.

Awright. What makes being gay wrong?

First of all, it's not natural. I don't see dogs or cats or anything doing it, only genetically altered flies. Nature says it's not that way.

It doesn't work secondly. Males are males and Females are females. Nature has nicely provided us with a way to reproduce, it doesn't work the other way around. Genetics says it's not that way.

It is against many people's religious beliefs for a third, but I'm not going to pursue that. (God says it's wrong)

Fourthly, it's disgusting and makes many, MANY people uncomfortable. PEOPLE say it's not okay.

Mec what makes murder wrong is that you prevent someone else from living

The same thing that makes murder wrong should make abortion wrong then. AHA.

But there is the 'against their will' part. Is it wrong to kill someone when they beg you to? Is it wrong to kill someone if they are retarded (Actually I don't know much about retarded people, they probably have wills though, scratch that.)?

[Metatron]

Bush had every reason to believe that Saddam was getting, umm, bad ideas into his head.

No idea or though is 'bad' everybody should have the right to think their own thoughts but the fact is that investagation shows that he didnt bring his ideas to frutition (sp?).

[Mec]

Umm, my religion says no. I won't pursue that, though.

If somebody like Saddam is thinking about doing something, he's probably going to do it. Let me rephrase this:

Bush had every reason to believe that Saddam was preparing to being producing WOMs.

[Metatron]

Awright. What makes being gay wrong?

First of all, it's not natural. I don't see dogs or cats or anything doing it, only genetically altered flies. Nature says it's not that way.

But the church also says that we all have the right to free will and to make our own choices so seeing as your have used biblical/church arguments about morals
and others clearly say that it is ok, abut you cant prevent a fetus from living if its not alive its basicly the same as the a female from have a mole removed as its only having a part of the female removed from her with her consent.

I will go back to the free will part, because should you then not go through the act of euthinasia (sp?) if they cant kill themselves because of their free will, then are you not honouring them by doing it? and by so honouring their will and be makingthem happy ultimatly bring good into the world through a life leaving it?

[Metatron]

Umm, my religion says no. I won't pursue that, though.

If somebody like Saddam is thinking about doing something, he's probably going to do it. Let me rephrase this:

Bush had every reason to believe that Saddam was preparing to being producing WOMs.

But the top un weapons inspectors said that he didnt have the weapons and some weapons he did have he was under their inspection was destroying, so how did he?

[Mec]

Yes, we can make our own choices according to the church, but some choices are WRONG and should not be done.

About Saddam saying he was destroying his weapons? Are you actually going to BELIEVE that creep?

[afireinside]

i was born gay mec are you going to tell me im wrong?

[Mec]

No, you weren't. I just don't buy that. I said this aleady, it's a RATIONALIZATION.

You want to do something that is wrong, so you make up excuses for doing it!

Picture someone saying that he was born to be a murderer!

[afireinside]

dude you are so ignorant i cant even stand it, ARE YOU GAY? NO, so you have no knowlegde of being gay and the mechanics of it.

[Zylia]

Fourthly, it's disgusting and makes many, MANY people uncomfortable.

Hey Mec. Way to sound like a hypocrite:

You're serlfish and don't want to go through any dismcomfort.

See now, gays make you uncomfortable so you don't want them around. So if I were to be raped and want to have an abortion due to my 'discomfort' isn't that okay? You're telling gays to go to hell because your uncomfortable so why can't I have my abortion? And don't give me any crap about how its murder. A first trimester pregnancy cannot breathe or think or move. A gay man or a gay couple have feelings. They have emotions. And they also have a right to be happy. A cluster of cells that are not even active do not have these feelings. Who is worse? Me or you? Is it worse to discriminate against two living, breathing people or deny someone who hasn't even begun to become a life, lacking movement, thoughts or emotions or even a history of being a life that could turn out bad due to the circumstances it was begun on?

Mec, one major question because I'm finished trying to lecture you. If gays were allowed to marry, how would that impact your private life? Would it make your life a living hell or something? I'm not a lesbian, I don't have many gay friends. The way I see it, let two mooseing American citizens be happy. It is their right granted by the Declaration of Independence. Now STFU and go back to middle school.

Hehe.. this kinda sounds like President Bush...:

You want to do something that is wrong, so you make up excuses for doing it!

Anyways, I'm going to attempt to listen to Lich and kinda tune Mec out. It probably wont work though because his idiocy is just so resounding x.x

Edited by Zylia, 01 August 2004 - 12:07 AM.

[Shera]

Awright.  What makes being gay wrong?

First of all, it's not natural.  I don't see dogs or cats or anything doing it, only genetically altered flies.  Nature says it's not that way.

It doesn't work secondly.  Males are males and Females are females.  Nature has nicely provided us with a way to reproduce, it doesn't work the other way around.  Genetics says it's not that way.

Actually like Lich was telling you it is hormones that makes us male or female. There are people like Jamie Lee Curtis that have what is called: testicular feminization or AIS. She has XY chormosones which as you should know from bio, should have made her a man. So how would you explain people like her? She is genetically a man but is a woman. What about Hermaphrodites? Things like these do happen, maybe you should think about them before making blanket statements that turn out to be wrong.

Bottom line is I can not see how two people loving each other and harming no one else in doing so, can be wrong.

Edit: Oh and Mec about no animals other then those flies being homosexual read this article from the national geographic: http://news.national..._gayanimal.html It should enlighten you some. Now I'm not trying to tell you that what you believe about homosexuality is wrong since you believe that based on a religious belief and I dont want to tell you that it is wrong. However the animal thing you said is wrong.

Edited by Shera, 01 August 2004 - 12:25 AM.

[Mec]

Eww! Dumb animals! But do the other animals hang around them? I bet not.

Now, the difference is, between my quote and the other is:

Gay people needlessly make people uncomfortable, why can't they behave normally? They CAN help it. This is selfish too, they want to do what they do and don't care about other people.

Abortion is selfish also, it makes me have less money through social security.

Everybody has to go through SOME discomfort in like, if you're going to try to unleash it on the public, you are going to be stopped.

And I will prepare to defend my religious beliefs because they are RIGHT!



The only was to escape discomfort during pregnancy is to abort the baby, which is selfish. You'll have to live with SOME discomfort, remember, your mother did the same for you.