196 replies to this topic

[Gaddy]

I made the comparison not on those terms. I'm saying that on Diablo, the whole point is to "hack, slash, level up and repeat." As it stands, that's all Nightmist is about.

Also, I've said this before but it seems I have to say this again:

If you like the challenge of controlling so many alts at the same time, a MuD isn't for you. You're looking for a Real Time Strategy game like WarCraft III or the like.

As for RP'ing as different alts...I find that incredibly difficult. It would take me mass amounts of time to make 3 decent characters, think up unique personalities, backgrounds etc. for all of them much less more than 3. I have no clue how Amy does it.

Ya, see, massive difficulty in making 3 characters that you RP, good high quality time spending would be required...where is the problem with that?


Also as a little note, nightmist is nothing like warcraft and starcraft. Starcraft was a cool game, but doesn't compare at all to nightmist. I've played starcraft, diablo 2 lod, and warcraft...along with many other games. The only games that i have found i enjoy as much or more than nightmist are the FF games. Usually when i play them i dont talk on snes, some games cause me to become a hardcore gamer, it is..scary.

[Squee]

Ya, see, massive difficulty in making 3 characters that you RP, good high quality time spending would be required...where is the problem with that?

Well...instead of making 3 rather bland characters, I'd rather make 1 character that is truly unique and special. I find that when I create more than one character in an RP session, personality traits tend to leak from oen character to the other which really takes away the feel that they are, indeed, different people.

[Aidon]

You say that it doesn't force you to play alts, I challenge you to choose a lvl 1 character, other than a paci, and try training it by itself, without the help of any alts, and see how successful you are.

Also, when you ask about rp'ing, yes they do mean actually playing as a different person, hence thats what Role Playing games are, the idea of taking upon the identity of the character whom you choose to play.

You say that we do not listen and just ignore your opinions, but I think it is nearly the fact that the only opinion or argument that has been given, is one saying that "Well I like alts and hate the idea." Other arguments stating that the game is not made for single characters was then combatted by new ideas which could lessen this.

Ste's statement shows exactly why people want alts more than anything: They do not want to share power or gold with anyone else. Why would one choose not to use alt's in a game where you stand no chance against other's armies of alts? As he stated, if a new player comes to this game they have a choice: Either stay using that very first crit you use and repeatedly die after lvl 5, not accomplishing anything, or start making a band of alts to be able to defend yourself.

I implore any of the hundreds of people who direly hate this idea to please come and show an argument more than "I like alts", or "the game isnt made for it."

[Gaddy]

You clearly haven't bothered reading my posts if you say all that I'm saying is that i like alts and hate the idea.

Yes, greed. Why the hell can't i be a little greedy? Not truely even greedy, I just don't want to depend on other players to play the game. I go and do stuff with friends plenty, but there is no reason that i should HAVE to play with the other kids.

The only argument half of the people wanting a 1 alt limit are posting is that they don't have a set of high levels to fight other high levels, then maybe you should stop trying to fight them and train your crits? Honestly if you train in desert and swamps and stuff you do not get pked that often.

No, im not going to lvl a crit from 1 to arch w/o any help simply because i dont have to. No player HAS to, a player could choose to just to play the game their way. When i first started lancaster was my only crit for a good while, he got to level 26 w/o me having any other alts. Since then he's been neglected because fighters aren't very helpful, and i've just begun to use him again so i can finally just arch him and let him sit and gather dust.

[Squee]

I have leveled a mage to level 25, level 30 and currently have one leveled to 28. I do it all without alts. Don't tell me that I need to train my crits. You know as well as I do that training mages can be one of the hardest things to do in the game.

[dognapot]

gaddy, quit being a moron. you're proving aidon's point. by the way, if anyone actually does have a compelling arguement against nightmist going 1-alt, i'll either start looking for my google cached version i did myself or have a thoughtfull discussion, or both. anyways, i believe aidon has a point in that the hundreds of people who don't want a 1-alt nightmist (we know this because they haven't commented, brilliant gaddy), seem to have the strange habit of justifying their opinion a tangy mix fear, and greed. somehow that doesn't sound compelling to me. oh well.

[Gaddy]

Either way, if you're Rich or Dognapot, you either don't play at all or cannot play at all. You don't really have much reason to post. Which I don't think you're dognapot because although he did like the idea of a 1 alt rule, he would usually not be a cabbage or give me nuts personally.

I haven't seen a true arguement that makes me see 1 alt as a thing that would be BETTER than multiple alts.

-Better not being "people would have to team up" because that isn't really better in a lot of ways people see things. It would also cause many many arguements.

-Saying people wouldn't have massive pking power really is the only thing i've seen anything near an argument. Which isn't all that large of a problem, and a 1 alt limit and changing the whole game is not the easiest way of adjusting that if it is a problem.

-Roleplaying, k, i dont see most of nightmist as "roleplayers", and there are many other games where people can roleplay if they want. You can still roleplay if you want, either thinking of multiple characters or playing a paci or something. It's not that i dont think you should be able to roleplay, there is no reason not to be able to do so and still compete in the game, but people who are not roleplayers are not truely a problem with the game in my opinion, and shouldn't be punished or limited so other players can have their way.

-Adjustments could be made to nightmist to make it more in-depth with people adding different types of things to their crits such as stat points or whaever without the game being a 1 alt game. I really don't think that that is the best way to handle making the game more indepth though, it seems more like just taking some ideas from other games and making nightmist like them.

Mage training at higher level is not hard, they rarely fizzle on monsters and hit for 60-70 easily, and thats with Prism, who has 19 int. I just don't bother to train a mage because they are not good enough in this game, and all they are useful for is invising my crits....so i haven't got reason to get another or get prism arched.

If you will read what i've posted here, then i wont post anymore on this topic, i feel i have expressed pretty much everything i can about my opinion and disagreements about this topic, and hopefully in the civil fashion Havanor asked everyone to post on it. I'm not going to end up sitting here bickinger with you guys about it. If it is added i think nightmist will lose a lot of its individuality and what makes me like playing it so much more than any other game i've ever played.

-Gaddy

[dognapot]

i don't know how long you've been around to watch me on the forum, but i do push people occasionally, like i pushed you. after that, usually one of two things happen: the person either rearranges thier position in an articulate fashion making points and what-have-you, or they shove thier foot far enough into to thier mouth that thier knee sticks out. thanks for not being the latter of the two. i'll try and explain how this 1 alt thing would be better.

first of all, the 'as many alts as you can do' standard is an impediment towards character customization. at this point, character customization is limited to the items you wear, which is not very roomy if you've noticed. when suggestions are made to make classes or advancement more in depth or complex it quickly becomes apparent that there is very fine line between what we have and what is overpowered. if you give crits the room to grow it gives players the room to maximize through thier alts. when you give 1 crit the ability to improve itself to be a quarter more deadly under some sort new system, you give four crits the ability to twice as deadly. it leaves a very large threshold between the minimum and the maximum available to an individual, and when it comes time to choose between giving newer players, or part-time players more options at the cost of giving full-time players a gross personal advantage it becomes time to go back to the drawing board. i suppose that covers making nightmist more in-depth. nightmist isn't starving for new ideas, it's starving for the canvas to apply them to. in a 1-alt world there would be much more room for different systems of advancement where the potential for abuse is limited primarily by social adeptness. not a bad limitation for this playerbase.

roleplaying is not really an issue of one person deciding to stay in character when it comes to this 1-alt issue. it's more of defining whether or not nightmist can still qualify as an rpg, it has the atmosphere but is becoming more and more of a real time strategy game. a 1-alt limit would reverse that course. that's all i see to the role-playing aspect here. i don't rp, but i don't like thinking of my crits as feet and hands or tools for doing a task either.

as for pking, i'm sure there's other ways to tinker with it, but a 1-alt world would have a vastly improved playing field in relation to PvP combat. even though it's not the most popular thing outside of town, a battle between two persons does still have it's skill in nightmist. however, lots of people don't get to enjoy it outside of the sparring arena with friends. there's lots of things each class can do, and good player can beat just about any class with any class if they know the class well enough. however, as i've said before, nightmist is leaning more towards real-time strategy so when it comes out, it usually comes out in the last minute or two of a mosh. but hell, that's usually decided by pots anyways.

i think that's about it. sorry for being a cabbage but i've heard the same thing alot about this issue, and in some instances i'm very opposed to a 1-alt rule. for instance if there were to be a 1-alt rule imposed on nightmist tomorrow i'd be against it, because it would only cement the lead that older and superactive players have made in the last two years. that's counter-productive to what i hope a 1-alt rule would improve upon. the 1-alt dealie isn't supposed to be imprisoning or a punishment but just a way for nightmist to expand in a different direction that, right now, seems to far for to be traveled to by any other means.

[Bean]

Stamina timing could be brought back with one alt.... or rather it would HAVE to come back to begin with...

I would say something else but dognapot just said pretty much everything I was thinking, and worded it better.

P.S: To all those hundreds of people that play nightmist and dont want a one alt limit..... Uh.... How about you guys get your butts into this topic and comment.

Edit: One alts? Damn... what a horrible grammatical mistake.

Edited by Bean, 22 March 2004 - 08:22 AM.

[Squee]

Either way, if you're Rich or Dognapot, you either don't play at all or cannot play at all.

I obviously play the game a lot. Know why you usually don't see me around? It's because when you log on, 49% of the characters are simply additional alts. Those "power players" simply flood the best areas to train with variations of themselves and simply kill anybody that attempts to "move in on their ground." By playing 1-alt, I am forced to train in terrible places, giving me little EXP and little gold.

And before you tell me that I should just train more crits and that it's my fault that I'm stuck training in these inferrior places, know that I do it for a reason. I am proof that anybody can play 1-alt while still being as interactive as someone with 100 alts. I am forced to train with people (if they can tolerate a mage), not to roll a good 5 more characters.

... shouldn't be punished or limited so other players can have their way.

A 1-alt limit does not impede on training at all. All it means is that all characters will be equal. Of course...this would also mean that peoples' egos will be reduced 10-fold. I, personally, think this is a step in the right direction. If you're a better player then me, show me by beating me in a duel, not by rolling 14 better crits then overwhelming me. This is a MuD, not an RTS.

Edited by Squee, 22 March 2004 - 09:30 PM.

[surkillalot]

now let me just get this out there ive read this post over and over and my brains about to just blow up!!!

and just let me add im not a very smart person so what im about to say just bare with me.....

To make it clear im for a 1 alt limit. Like everyone elses thats for a one alt limit i think it would bring the whole role playing element back into the game. the only reason it seems like no one on the sever is RP'ing any more is because they cant. Now let me explain. If a person trys to play the game then they have to creat alts not because they want to because they have to in order to survive in the world.
Now if say i go out with a low lvl crit by my self i will lvl up slower yes and one of the main resons is because im being pked to damn much!!!!!! i do everything trying not to get pked I run i log i stay in the city for awhile and just wait but still if i dont have someone else back me up or if i dont creat alts then i will just keep getting pked till i get sick of the game and just quit. Which brings up another thing. Once a person gets to lvl 30 then what they play with him for awhile then get board and when i mean board i mean really board i know i have. So what do i do i creat a new crit and that seems to be whats happening once someone arch's they simply start all over and arch anther guy then another etc.....
If this was put into effect i think that it would make the game funner so instead of just doing the same thing over and over and over till you get tierd of it like some people who have stop playing the game.
Which brings me to my next point. Like said ealyer a Nightmist citizen thing would just make the game even funner. Since no one would be the same.

now let me just say agien im not a very good speller and alot of things might be said wrong in this post but i think everyone will get the point.

thank you for taking the time to read what i have to say.

~~Surkillalot~~

[ice_cold]

You say that it doesn't force you to play alts, I challenge you to choose a lvl 1 character, other than a paci, and try training it by itself, without the help of any alts, and see how successful you are. 

Also, when you ask about rp'ing, yes they do mean actually playing as a different person, hence thats what Role Playing games are, the idea of taking upon the identity of the character whom you choose to play. 

You say that we do not listen and just ignore your opinions, but I think it is nearly the fact that the only opinion or argument that has been given, is one saying that "Well I like alts and hate the idea."  Other arguments stating that the game is not made for single characters was then combatted by new ideas which could lessen this. 

Ste's statement shows exactly why people want alts more than anything:  They do not want to share power or gold with anyone else.  Why would one choose not to use alt's in a game where you stand no chance against other's armies of alts?  As he stated, if a new player comes to this game they have a choice:  Either stay using that very first crit you use and repeatedly die after lvl 5, not accomplishing anything, or start making a band of alts to be able to defend yourself.

I implore any of the hundreds of people who direly hate this idea to please come and show an argument more than "I like alts", or "the game isnt made for it."

well how bout this for you.

im a new player. i roll my crappy crit because i dont know whats good yet. i log on and i turn up in boars tusk where 1 person sits.

IM_NEW: Hi, how are you?
IM_NEW: Are you there IM_OLD?
IM_NEW: What are all these pictures for?
IM_NEW: How do I move?
IM_NEW just logged off

why would this happen, because rather then people just sitting around they woud be out training with people, why, because they cant train by themselves, they have to go when people want to go right? So this new player who just started, tried finding out how to play, but only 1 AFK person was around because everyone else has to be out trainign when other people want to train, you cant go out by yourself anymore right? You say you have to have alts now to combat other alts, if there was a 1 alt limit, you would then need strong friends because 1 alt cant last against 4 people all hitting you at once, 1 alt cant last against 10 TR members hitting you (example) right?So the game then shifts from having to have alts, to having to have friends. Well then, what if that wasnt an issue? lets say 1 alt can last, we tghen come to the problem of bosses. how can 1 person who's alone, expect to get a boss drop? Okay, so you have to work with people, well i dont believe thats completely fair to our Australian player base because there is a great deal less people on when theyre on. I know when im on at about 6am my time (11am GMT), only about 30 players are on, how does the 1 person who is only on from like 5am-7am compete equally with the people who play around 10pm GMT? I think that you guys are overlooking the fact that a 1 alt limit would favor some people over others.

Edited by ice_cold, 26 March 2004 - 08:09 PM.

[Bean]

Personally I think anyone that cant read that the tutorial is north of the boars tusk doesnt need to be playing nightmist in the first place. But im an arse so go figure.

Secondly there are the forums. People CAN come to the forums and ask for help with the game. And they dont even have to be in the game to know about the forum. Its on the site.

And lastly, There would still be people sitting all over chatting, because thats what people like to do. People wouldnt just create ONE character and never play another one in their lives, people would still be creating new characters and leveling them for the sake of either variety in their styles of play, or just to sell. A one alt rule wouldnt stop people from playing alts altogether, it would simply stop them from playing the alts in tandum.

[Deval]

Okay, so you have to work with people, well i dont believe thats completely fair to our Australian player base because there is a great deal less people on when theyre on.

Bad example, I'm Australian and fully support the 1 character rule.

[ice_cold]

Okay, so you have to work with people, well i dont believe thats completely fair to our Australian player base because there is a great deal less people on when theyre on.

Bad example, I'm Australian and fully support the 1 character rule.

only reason i said that was because of you , i just love you so much, your just great

but really, do you think it would be as easy for someone who logs on for inbetween 11:00gmt and 14:00gmt rather then someone who logs on inbetween 20:00gmt and 23:00gmt

[Aidon]

I have te to see any # of players less than 40 during the hours when I see Deval on.

[Bean]

Even I am sometimes on during that time... sleep is overrated

[Thunderja]

P.S: To all those hundreds of people that play nightmist and dont want a one alt limit..... Uh.... How about you guys get your butts into this topic and comment.

Im pro alts, to a certain degree, but it seems everyone who is and says so on this post is attacked about their opinion is some way or another by people who spend more time on forums than actually playing Nightmist.

I have trained 4 archmaster crits from lvl 1, i have aquired more from other means but after spending countless days training these crits i have become rather attached to them, and to choose one or throw them away for a new nightmist format would not be easy. In training these crits and buying my first hally and so on i have also become very attached to the game as it is.

To people who say one alt would make people nicer and work together, i have that and it's called the aviators. It's true, other people on the game are pricks, they slag me and my clan off, but you seperate the men from the nutstalkers when you run into each other unexpectedly in the desert or so on. I dislike some people and clans so much i will go out of my way just to let my arch rangers and zerkers deal with them, and i personally find in the end them been pricks a good thing because i had so much fun killing them.

Another thing that was said, alts are power, try jumping Epic or Tadpole and their party of 4 or 5 crits. Alts are nothing without an element of skill. I was jumped in desert and had my cleric, master zerker and arch ranger killed first round leaving an arch zerker and ranger. The guy had 12 crits from lvl 26-30, I clicked 1 he droped advanced pots which allowed me boys to last another round. While pushing my pot macros i looked for his next weakest crit and clicked that and got more pots. My 2 crits were left standing in the end because i had better macros set and my crits are quality not quantity. (/clap @ /get 14 advanced healing potions)

At the end of the day it's night, and i will support Nightmist either way, but what if it's changed and people start with the "i remember when there was alts, they were the good old days!" It's a no win situation, you cannot please all.

[Raylen]

It's a fair point - the main supporters of 1-altness are people who spend a larger than average amount of time on the forum, and a lower than average amount of time on the game

I casually mentioned this 1-alt idea in clan chat the other day - not one person out of about 5 or 6 mid-level players had heard about it, as not everyone reads these forums, and unsurprisingly, not one of them supports this idea.

[newb]

Why do you think we dwell on the forums?

Tell me that and i'll tell you why we support it.

[Squee]

Skill in this game is not what one thinks.

Can you micro-manage? Can you keep track of things and keep them organized? Can you afford the best internet connection possible?

Can you draw a box with your mouse, select units and tell them all to repair your Town Hall?

Skill should be about predicting what your opponent will do and what you should do in response. Skill is not simply overwhelming your opponent with alts.

Also, don't think I don't sympathize with those who have so many alts and have worked so hard for them. If ever this 1-alt ideal comes into play, I certainly hope everyone with a substantial amount of characters will be compensated.

[dognapot]

Also, don't think I don't sympathize with those who have so many alts and have worked so hard for them. If ever this 1-alt ideal comes into play, I certainly hope everyone with a substantial amount of characters will be compensated.

compensation is impossible. first, one could argue that using alts to improve thier wealth at an accelerating pace for two years is compensation enough. also, any compensation proportional to the amount of characters is going to put a rediculous amount of space between old and new, but it goes further than that. if a 1-alt rule were implemented in nightmist, how do you compensate everyone who didn't have substantial amounts of characters? everyone who's been running full steam from the get-go would just have thier leads frozen in time. you can't be fair to everyone here, and still keep the same nightmist. if a 1-alt rule were implemented on nightmist, new players or less alt heavy players would have little to no hope of being nearly as successfull as players are now, and older players still get burned. i usually say that a leaner sister server would solve that problem. a 1-alt nightmist running alongside the nightmist we play now, but how can you stop us all from trading our wealth here for wealth there? perhaps there is no fair way to transfer to a 1-alt nightmist, or perhaps nightmist has just gone too far in one direction to do much else? in any case, nightmist has a strong enough playerbase to keep growing at a pace where people leaving won't be noticed for a long time. so from a developement perspective, the whole thing might be totally irrelevant.

[Raylen]

I personally don't see how you could implement the switch to a 1-alt nightmist without a reset. To do it without one would seem to cause too many problems

Newb, i knew someone was going to say that, lol. As far as i can tell, you live on the forums because you don't find the game interesting enough to play.

And yet, there are a large amount of people out there that do enjoy playing the game, myself being one. Heck, i'm sure even those crazy kids over at Animosity enjoy the game in their own inimitable fashion.

Why is it that i enjoy the game and you do not? Simple. We are two different people. We like different things. And as has been said, you cannot please all the people - there will always be some who love it, and some who sit on the forums.

Anyway, tired now, gotta stop writing, peace

[Deval]

I personally don't see how you could implement the switch to a 1-alt nightmist without a reset. To do it without one would seem to cause too many problems

Care to expand upon that, or you just throwing up an empty case for argument for the sake of it? Unless you have something more to add to that other than saying 'Uh oh, I bet that's gonna cause problems', don't even bother mentioning it.

Newb, i knew someone was going to say that, lol. As far as i can tell, you live on the forums because you don't find the game interesting enough to play.

I don't see how that has any bearing on the subject, and who cares if he finds the forums more interesting anway, it doesn't mean he doesn't have the best interests in the game in mind, and what he believes to be suggestions for the betterment of Nightmist.

I casually mentioned this 1-alt idea in clan chat the other day - not one person out of about 5 or 6 mid-level players had heard about it, as not everyone reads these forums, and unsurprisingly, not one of them supports this idea.

Well, if you've got all those fellows who are so violently opposed to an alt limit, then let them come here and state their opinions. That's about as valid as me saying 'Yeah well I have 29 clannies who were all on at the same time, and we all think an alt limit is neccessary.' Should your friends choose to come to forums to voice their opinions, lets hope they have something to offer that doesn't involve self gratification.

On a final note, how does people frequenting the forums have any bearing on their attitudes or the entertainment they derive from the game? You singled out one single player, and that may be the way he feels, but you cannot use one person who has their own individual attitudes and way of thinking to represent the opinions of the masses. Even still, I would suggest that the current popularity of forums is a testament itself to the problems in game. People easily could have become tired of the constant stressful battle to have the most alts in the shortest period of time, and thus in a final attempt to salvage whats left of what they once enjoyed, they resort to forums with hopes to address what they believe are pressing issues.

I'm sorry mate, but your arguments just don't hold water.

[Bean]

They dwell on the forum because nightmist requires no skill.

This is the road to nightmist greatness:

1. Log on as many alts as possible for your computer.
2. Set up their attacks.
3. walk on the square, and click as fsat as possible on intended target.
4. Gloat and call the person you just RAPED a noob and a poser.
5. Rinse and repeat for two years.

Hardly a skillful thing.... Even though I admit I have taken advantage of it more than once.

Nightmist used to be:

1. Log on your ONE character
2. Join forces with close friends/clannies WITHOUT ALTS
3. Walk on square, Attack enemy first round by clicking as fast as possible for the more blunt. Use detrimental spells, etc for the more... eloquent.
4. Spend the next few rounds with short planning before your attacks to overwhelm your enemy with strategy rather than bludgeoning them with thousands of alts.
5. Gain fame for having true skill, and being feared by all..... ON ONE CHARACTER *Ask anyone pre-reset about ebony*

I want that system back, it was much better for the game as a whole. Who cares about the roleplay aspect... I dont, I can roleplay on the forums just fine. Its more fun like that anyhow. I want the actual gameplay back, where you had a chance to defeat three enemies even IF it was only you. You didnt have to surprise them with a hit an run, you didnt have to be 10 levels higher than them. You just had to be able to use your character better.... THAT was skill. What we have now is like playing bloody starcraft.

Nightmist should NOT use the same tactics and a bloody RTS... Because its an RPG... And contrary to your belief those are two different things. If none of you see it your obviously blind. You are letting your want for personal wealth/power get in the way of bettering the game, and you refuse to see that the game will go down the Sh*tter in terms of gameplay if it continues on this route....

Bah im done ranting, even though I just typed all that I am guessing only... .000000000000000000001% of you will understand.

Edited by Bean, 31 March 2004 - 01:29 AM.

[Hatchet Crew]

JLH said that the game will never be a one alt game and there will never be any alt limit imposed on the nightmist comunity. I think thats seals the deal?

[Deval]

Err where did he say that exactly?...

As far as I'm aware, the extent of his comments has been as follows:

I think this is one of the few threads about the future of nightmist that is well thought out and hasn't turned into a slagging match
University term ends at the weekend, and i'll have handed in my massive uni project report in, so i'll have lots of free time over the 5 week easter break to work with Pandilex on a great deal of new stuff.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, that is far from indicating what you suggest, and if nothing else, I'd say that's more of an encouraging remark in regards to the discussion, not a negative.

[newb]

In magical rainbow fairy happy bunny land.

I'll explain some of my opinions tomorrow, but for now, I sleep.

[ice_cold]

I have te to see any # of players less than 40 during the hours when I see Deval on.

well

There are 101 characters online, (39 users).
The server time (England, GMT) is 08:26:33 on 03-31-2004.

The server time (England, GMT) is 09:15:33 on 03-31-2004.
There are 96 characters online, (37 users).


when im on there less then 40 people

Edited by ice_cold, 31 March 2004 - 08:17 AM.

[Thunderja]

It would be nice if JLH could elaborate further on his previous post. Until then i doubt anyone can accuratly speak on his behalf but himself.