196 replies to this topic

[JLH]

I think this is one of the few threads about the future of nightmist that is well thought out and hasn't turned into a slagging match
University term ends at the weekend, and i'll have handed in my massive uni project report in, so i'll have lots of free time over the 5 week easter break to work with Pandilex on a great deal of new stuff.

[Deval]

What a sneakily non-commital remark

[deadman]

jus being able to be on one crit... i think that cuts it to close maybe limit of 4 or somethin

[Squee]

Why would you reply with that..I'm sure people know that RPGing is..it doesn't mean they should be FORCED to do it just because a couple want to.

I've said it before and I'm going to say it again:

Without RP'ing, Nightmist becomes nothing more than a (please, excuse me) "Diablo rip-off." A game where the whole point is to become stronger and kill stuff/people. The difference (at the moment) between Diablo and Nightmist is that Diablo has graphical benefits that Nightmist will never have.

I strongly believe that the Nightmist community needs the RP'ing aspect (at least in minimal quantities) in order to keep it from becoming...well...bland.

As for those that actually enjoy the whole "hack, slash, level up, repeat" system of things, a 1-alt limit does not hinder that at all.

[Deval]

As for those that actually enjoy the whole "hack, slash, level up, repeat" system of things, a 1-alt limit does not hinder that at all.

Being one of those people myself who does not abuse alts, I think I am in an appropriate position to say that Squee is correct.

[Wolfgang]

Yeah... i've gotta agree with Squee on this one. This system does nothing to hinder the slaying of other players. At all. And it does nothing to force players to RP.

[Amy]

After carefully reading over this thread several times I decided to comment. Now, in no way am I stating that anyones opinions are out of line here. Each has a right to their own opinions and beliefs. (btw ty those that made kind comments )

The staff as a whole, as well as JLH and Pandilex, do put alot into this game. But I must say that players as well do the same. Each alt that I have, I have worked hard to train. Yes, I have ALOT of alts, because of my pc I can only sign on 3-5 Max, most of the time I play 4, and by CHOICE, I rp most of them (yes differently). The thing is, this is a game that is meant to be fun for all. Whether roleplaying or not, whether on 10 alts or 1 alt, it really shouldn't matter. Why limit the game to 1 or 2 though?

If a person feels that one alt is all that they need, then by all means, play only one alt. If a person wants to rp, then by all means rp. If a player wants to play 5 alts and can handle them, what does it hurt others by doing so? Yes, there are those that say that a group is too "powerful" or whatever with many alts, There is no difference in playing a handful of alts or grabbing a handful of crits.

Not even using our own clan as an example, lets look at TR. TR is a great clan. Sure, they are known mostly as an "evil " clan and I in game despise that of them. But, I do have friends in TR. In character as Amy is and In game, obviously I do not support their philosophies and beliefs, but truth be known, it does make the game interesting to battle it out in character. lol. Back to the subject at hand. I could get on 5 alts and face TR, and they could react with 5 alts of their own, or a handful of people playing one alt at a time from their clan, it is their choice. it is the characters that they have worked hard for to get. Power will come to those that seek it and those that work for it.

If someone wants to spend all day rolling to get a perfect stat character, then let them do it. They still have to get the same amount of XP to get where they wish to go as anyone else.

Now, about Revelation, I have played the game, it is a fine game.. but, I prefer nightmist much much more, Nightmist is more realistic, in nightmist as it stands NOW, you can create groups consisting of alts, you can join a clan, you can become strong or keep some characters weaker (for areas with level caps). There is much more freedom. If you die, you lose what you carry, in revelation your items remain in your inventory <now tell me , you fall down in battle and die, how in the world would you hold onto your items?> lol.

As for pay 2 play.. The choice is up to Pandilex and JLH. Do I hope it goes there, of course not. <raising kids is expensive!> lol. But, if it does, then it does and I will have to make a choice as will everyone else in game if it is worth the entertainment value.

All in all, I know I have covered many different subjects within this post. In closing I would like to say.. Enjoy the game for what it is.. If you dont like something, dont do it. If you dont like something someone else does, stay away from them. If you don't like to be pked, stay in town or fight to prevent it.. If you don't like to gain levels and earn gold, stay broke and never make arch. Everything we do in game is our choice. The rules are the rules and we either abide by them and modify our game plan and goals to take them into account, or we get on this forum and gripe gripe gripe.. it doesn't help anything to gripe. Why not try to adjust and do what you can to make the game fun for YOURSELF. Do I like everything that goes on in game? Of course not. But I either deal with it or disconnect.

I hope the rules are not changed, if they are I will figure out how to deal with it. But, please take into account, if the rules change, someone will still find something to find fault in. Why not experience Nightmist as it is. Try different characters, try different classes.. .Find what is enjoyable to you and play the game. Just because someone has 10 alts, or near 100 alts <yes, guilty as charged lol> doesn't give them any unfair advantage. If they worked for them and have them.. it is their choice.

Good day to all,
Amy of Draco

Edited by Amy, 17 March 2004 - 11:11 PM.

[Thrice]

Can't be bothered to read that.....

But the majority of people that played pre-reset one being me...(scream) knew how much fun it was...to run around and KNOW that team work was happening or even better that the chances are you'd be in a 1 v 1 fight and not raped by 100's of ppl who think they're good by using alts.


tired atm..ill read again tomorrow..

[Deval]

But the majority of people that played pre-reset one being me...(scream) knew how much fun it was...to run around and KNOW that team work was happening or even better that the chances are you'd be in a 1 v 1 fight and not raped by 100's of ppl who think they're good by using alts.

God those were good days.

[Amy]

Increase of the level cap: It honestly doesn’t take that much time to fully train a crit to level 30. Many MUDs have leveling engines that require years of training to fully master a character. If players continue to keep maxing out characters in such short periods of time, the next logical step is to create an alt, and begin work on him/her.

Havanor, I totally agree with this. However, I believe that this can still be put into play using more than one crit at a time.

Also To Thrice, I am not saying I would ever log on more than 4 or even 5 characters, and I still use teamwork with other people. I like having a variety of characters that have different uses and functions within a team. But, I would like to add that if you wish not to read the entire post (heh sorry know it is long but had lots to say).. Then, by all means, please wait to comment until you at least take into account my arguement. Thanks.

I am as I said in my original post, posting my opinion, I do understand the opinion of all that came before me and I am not saying that I disagree with any of them, Either way it all turns out we will adjust.

Respectfully,
Amy

Edited by Amy, 17 March 2004 - 11:53 PM.

[Thrice]

Yep...i agree Deval...better not turn this to another old day post lol

[Stotic]

My opinion on this topic is obviously known. Take it from experience from the older players who have experienced an altless world and are merely trying to apply it to this new atmosphere. Havanor raises excellent points and I agree with him on every one. Alts will just become more and more abundant. Nightmist will turn into a Real Time Strategy game. I have 23 archmaster characters at my disposal. How many do I use for my pking routines? One. Of course this limits my abilities, but I accept that fact. One of the key elements of roleplaying is interaction. Players no longer interact like they once did. They just play with themselves to be blunt. They use alts. Yes, players should be able to use different characters for different strengths and weaknesses. But they shouldn’t be the ones providing them. Interact for god’s sake! If you are the Great Mage Wildertil of Arilin then how are you also a paladin? The system that we’d like to have is one player controlling one character’s mind.
There’s little convincing that we can do from this point and I’m sure you’ve heard all of the arguments. Any reason for doubt are solely based on your experiences and current situation in Nightmist. I’m sure we can come to some resolution in the debate, but there is one thing certain. This “adjustment” can alter Nightmist forever and very significantly. I for one believe it is for a positive end result.

[Flux]

To all the naysayers:

You argue that alts are fine as they are, and that there still is plenty of teamwork RPing, etc., should you want it. However, you are completely disregarding the overlying problem. Let's take a step back and look at the broader picture. The issue is that we're dealing with a game that has a short "shelf-life." You hit your first level thirty in a matter of months. Then what? After getting the same mandatory equips as everyone else, you eventually either sit around, or you create alts. Now, there's nothing wrong with having several different characters you can play, but people realize that "hey, if I have them on all at once, I’m X times as powerful."

In a game with a stronger sense of depth, there might be--for example--hundreds of different ways to build and evolve your mage. In Nightmist, all it comes down to class and race--which are still not particularly significant, seeing as how it boils down to a small change in whether your beam does an extra 10dmg, or if you have an extra 15hp. Rare quest drops aside, the best mage will still be using the exact same attack spell as the next best mage, and wearing the same damn robes to boot. You refuse to see that this is a problem, and alts were not originally the intended solution. I have laid out several terms which would expand upon the playability of the game. Some of the significant benefits of this ultimatum:

-greater character customization,

-a stronger necessary interaction between players,

-an environment that encourages a stronger sense of role playing, should you so desire,

-the potential for continued expandability in terms of weapons, armors, game dynamics,

-(bluntly,) more stuff to do.

Once you put your personal agenda behind you and start genuinely striving to assist Nightmist in becoming a better game, we can make progress. I want to build a world where you don’t need alts, because the game is so damn good that you wouldn't want to muck yourself up. Historically, the "it's fine as it is" mentality has been the bane of many civil advancements in our society. And somewhere down the line, you might even thank me for stepping up and saying something.

This is my final post on the subject.

[Amy]

Havanor, I definately see your points and would like to commend you on putting them very clearly and precisely in a format that all can understand. I do agree with many of your points and yet, my opinion still remains as far as playing more than one alt at a time. Is it necessary for me to do so? No. Do I enjoy it more, definately yes.

As mentioned before, I will adjust to whatever path the game follows.

Good day to you,
~Amy of Draco

[Thrice]

But you probably only enjoy playing with more than 1 alt due to how many alts everyone else uses....

Maybe..not saying im right, but maybe

Good day to you,
~.Uhh Yeh.

[Silverwizard]

WHOA nice Havanor, you finally shot everyone down, thanks, any still naysayers, shut up.

[Hatchet Crew]

Controll yourself child. If somone can argue a intelligent point let them it is only fair and sum good might come of it sum might not.

[Squee]

Usually, when you call someone a "child," you use proper spelling and grammar to show that you have the authority to call someone that...

On another note,

Hanavor gets my applause for writing that little blurb.

I'd explain why I think a 1-alt limit would be good...but, either, I have said it or Hanavor (re)covered it.

[Amy]

WHOA nice Havanor, you finally shot everyone down, thanks, any still naysayers, shut up.

Silver, the thread was so that we could discuss the pros and cons of this.

[Silverwizard]

What I am saying is, Havanor shot down all your cons with simple logic, what I meant was that the naysayers are mostly, "but I like alts, they rock!", nothing intelligent is left that can counter it, if there is, go ahead let it get shot down too.


I made this post coherent ~ Deval

Edited by Deval, 19 March 2004 - 04:54 AM.

[Bean]

I personally agree with pretty much every idea for one alt limitations that has been posted on the message boards.

I can remember a time when everyone played with one alt, and they didnt HAVE TO, They did it because it was fun. Those days were rather interesting.

And to all those who are still disagreeing, because they think the new system will force you to interact with other players, your wrong. You can still venture off on your own, there would be plenty of opportunity for that. I explored almost all of the pre-reset nightmist map with only one character *With pit stops at potion shops and inns of course*. You could do the same now if you wanted.

Eh... I dunno if I said that right, oh well.

P.S: Deval, if a limit is put in, will you come back!

[Deval]

P.S: Deval, if a limit is put in, will you come back!

Absolutely.

[Bean]

Awesome sauce!

/cheer

[Wolfgang]

>_> I feel the need to say something. But everythings been said. Repeatedly...

The people arguing for the 1-alt implimentation have a better argument. They tend to be slightly more coherent (not in ALL cases)... but uh...

>_> i lost my train of thought.

the point is... I really dont think the arguments against the 1 alt limit hold water... or at least not very well

[Stigmata]

The source of the alt problem in my opinion -

When the game reset, everyone was in a HUGE rush to get powerful.......

I remember logging on, for the first night after the reset and people did not use alts.....they each had a main crit and used it both for training and pking.

Shortly after the reset it was obvious who was the most powerful (Seth/Ebony/Anthrax) who travelled around the barracks not using alts, but teaming together. We all know that they liked to pk which is fine, but others who were trying to train were not so lucky.........some had no prior game experience and no old players to team up with and quickly got constantly killed.

This lead to one deciding factor - Either these players teamed up to attempt to beat Seth and co. out of the barracks or they made other characters that they could use themselves to help defend their mains.

Obviously if they had teamed up, things may have been a little different but the fact is these players did not want to share the power they were racing for, they did not want to share the gold and they wanted to establish themselves as a power on their own.

By using alts they knew that they could defend themselves in a crisis, but they also knew that any gold and experience gained while using alts would go directly to them, and most importantly no one else.

The main point im making here is that in a rush for power, its everyone for themselves and if that means making 'yourself' a party of 5 alts instead of one crit then so be it. Greed is your answer.

And if anyone is unclear here's a simple list of events -

Game resets, everyone is in a rush to get powerful before anyone else.
A few select groups of old timers teamed up and dominated the game from the off.
New players got annoyed and started using alts to defend themselves.
Everyone else got killed by the people using alts and so made alts themselves.
Cool items were released, and obviously people wanted them for themselves, so made alts instead of teaming to increase their chances.

[dognapot]

actually the cool items were released like shortly after the select groups of old-guys got moving. then the cool items stopped coming shortly after the new players got annoyed. seems like a like a little thing but it did make difference.

[Stigmata]

I should have been a little clearer when I said 'cool items'

From what I remember, the main boost in the use of alts came with the crystal giant/crystal ring, as no one wanted to spend hours with others killing it, with a good chance of not getting the item.......hence using alts themselves to better their chances.

But your quite right anyway (if your talking about the release of halberds etc)

[Gaddy]

You guys have to realize that there have been, maybe, 12 people who have posted here about wanting 1 alt. There are hundreds of players who like nightmist the way it is that simply don't even want to bother with this post because they don't want to have, the one's of you who have, you guys sitting there being annoying saying what they say doesn't matter and only viewing things from your own opinion.

As Amy said, you can try to role play multiple crits. I've known her for a very long time. That is what she does. She does it very well.

As for saying nightmist is basically a diablo 2 rip-off...that is just stupid. Nightmist would become a diablo 2 rip off if you limited players to 1 crit, and gave them the ability to adjust their 'stat points' after each level and get weapons with multiple stats of their own.

I don't see what you mean by rp'ing in the first place. If you role play a character, do you act different and in the "role" of a person? If that is the case, then I don't like it at all. I don't want to pretend to be a person in the game, especially not each time i play the same game. I am not saying that's how it is for everyone, but I just don't like the idea in the slightest.

Alts in nightmist have been around for a long time, where do they destroy the game? You say they force you to play alts by playing alts, but no one is making you do anything. Now if you choose to play only 1 alt, then you'd be out of luck in almost any fight or attempting to get boss drops, but then your point in the game could be to do your own thing and role-play. Maybe you think that is unfair or a stupid thing for you to have to do, well now you see how i view it as unfair and a stupid thing for us to have to play only 1 alt so that the few people who actually would do any role-playing can.


If you say anything about "I didn't read your whole post, but ----" I'm not reading what you ignorantly reply to me or other people.

-Gaddy

[Sausage]

I've seen comparison's of Diablo to Nightmist if this were to go inplace.

Have any of you ever played Diablo? Noone kills eachother unless they both agree to a duel. Everyone always helps eachother out and goes out on quests together. They don't know the person they're helping they just help them out. They duel to see who has the better crit. Not go out and murder everyone they can see.

That comparison is a very weak one.

[Squee]

I made the comparison not on those terms. I'm saying that on Diablo, the whole point is to "hack, slash, level up and repeat." As it stands, that's all Nightmist is about.

Also, I've said this before but it seems I have to say this again:

If you like the challenge of controlling so many alts at the same time, a MuD isn't for you. You're looking for a Real Time Strategy game like WarCraft III or the like.

As for RP'ing as different alts...I find that incredibly difficult. It would take me mass amounts of time to make 3 decent characters, think up unique personalities, backgrounds etc. for all of them much less more than 3. I have no clue how Amy does it.

Also, there is such thing as a Roleplay quest - where a group of people will do a quest but in character. If people just wanted to RP through text, they could do it through an instant messenger service, not Nightmist. Obviously, when you RP through Nightmist, it makes it easier to visualize everything since the client will tell you when "things are happening."

Also, a 1-alt limit does not stop you from "not role playing." A 1-alt limit, from a statistic view-point, will make characters stronger with more HP and mana so they can survive more easily by themselves. This will mean, yes, you will be able to take out those small bosses by yourself. What this also means is that you won't be able to take out the larger bosses by yourself. You're going to have to (I know this is a shock for some players but, please, bare with me) interact with others. You may actually have to join a clan, not to chat but for support in game.

Now, if you're one of those people who would rather play an RPG but still be able to talk...put a TV by your computer, buy a SNES then load up MSN Messenger.