87 replies to this topic

[Origenes]

Pacis are just fine. Enjoy of them.

[lowmion]

/csl

what alot of typing about some1 else being able to be equal and how you hate it.

/csl

[PureMourning]

Obviously, all the people who support paci's are just mad because they're afraid something might happen, and bye bye to their gold making.

I have a paci, like I said, don't really use it, so I'm not mad about it.

But, I've played before reset, for years, and there's people who played for 2 months and archs, items, about ready for cobalt. Insane.

[Consumed]

i get what u are saying but i think they are fair... every1 could get 1 and the whole point of pacis is that they are nonpkable... so i find them fair...

and b4 neof u start shiz about me just setin on one i aint got one ...and since there sooo great ima get 1 lmao...

[lowmion]

Hmm, getting the gold for a cobalt on a paci.....

You'ld have to kill 285,715 Modern Art Sculptures getting 350 gold of each of them..

If it takes say 2 mins to kill each and find another, thats 159 hours approximately...

So around 20 days of 8 hrs a day sitting in the museum to get a single item...

They deserve a cobalt staff after that.

/t consumed

P.s.

This is the quickest amount of time it could take with an Arch paci, in actuality it would probably take anything up to 5 mins to find a Mod to kill at peak times in the museum, sooo....

Edited by lowmion, 12 June 2004 - 05:45 PM.

[PureMourning]

See, I don't want to be mistaken, I'm not on either side. It is true, everyone can just get a paci, and no one would complain really. There easy enough to train, and cheap if you purchase.

I'm just saying they're a little bit uneven, eh?

[Shane]

Doesnt matter. Those on the top of the mountain are going to find whatever means they see possible to stop anyone from giving them some kind of challenge. I'm done with this thread and with the bitching about pacis this and pacis that. I still say suck it up and move on, deal with it cry baby. Either that or get off the game and find something where you can actually get challenged by something instead of you constantly owning someone.

[Angelus]

I don't really care what they make, or how they spend it, if they are having fun then let them, it doesn't bother me. But the intention of a paci is to explore not to sit day after day in zeum farming gold....

So i get both sides, but i don't see how anything on the game is bad, whatever happens to you happens to me...just play the game.

[PureMourning]

Shane, stop talking as if people are mad because they can't get PKed. It's not that.

[Fossae]

Well again like I said before I DON'T want a paci. Whenever TR uses a paci it is to take it to cg or some other boss where other clans will meet and cast JZ and Greater Pact. I know because when me and Pure joined DC we went to the Giant Sand Wurm and got the kill because we howed up a few min late. I'm agreeing with people saying they should just have to keep the gold they make to there self. About the amount of time a paci has to make 10 mill is wrong. This is so because what if someone dies in the museum on the second floor? You kill the sculpture that killed them and get there gold. You can take a paci to where vines are and when someone dies they can pick up items or go to the Demonic General and get halberd to sell. They make gold much quicker than people think.

Edited by Fossae, 12 June 2004 - 06:53 PM.

[lowmion]

That's a big 'what if'

How many paci's have died in the museum and lost 500k, let alone 1 million gold,

With the Dg, a paci has the 1 chance against how many other alt using ppl's?

With vines you normally find a bunch of covert thiefs that are getting the gold by pking ppl trapped, unless you're like me and cast Jz on the square so ppl can actually get through safely....

Granted if you're able to put up with the boredom you get to KEEP the gold your crit has earnt, but it's much quicker to go to the desert, with a bunch of alts, and get more gold for less effort,

Your game style probably revolves around pking ppl and getting rich off their hard work, and probably the reason that you dislike paci's so much, is that because of a paci's ability to retain gold safely, ppl can equip their crits with weapons/armor thus causing you problems in your routine.

Surely the fact that now you dont have to wait 2 years for some-one to be able to challenge you in anyway is good for the game, making it more interesting, and keeping things more even.

As not every1 can log on 20 alts, some can only log on 4-5 if that, paci's allow those ppl the chance to compete with the multi alt's, with the penalty of boredom, time, and more boredom.

And you CHOOSE not to own a paci, but the ability is there for you to own 1, whereas those that CAN'T log on multi-alts, have no choice.

This is only fairness, and you do want that in this game or dont you?

P.s.

I forgot to mention that it also give's those that wish to role-play solo style, a way to earn gold to equip their single crit's with good equip/armor without having to sacrifice their standards by using alts in the game...........

Edited by lowmion, 12 June 2004 - 07:32 PM.

[PureMourning]

Wrong, I can make more gold in zeum with 1 paci than an alt party in dessy (which I do often). Not too mention, you run the chance of dying in desert.

It's also ridiculous when people have cable internet, with 2 comps, and I know people who run 2 paci's at once, rofl.

[dognapot]

Its not a theory its common sence. The class was made to even the balance because if it wasnt there is no reason at all they could do the same things as someone on ten alts.

If the alt limit was in place there would be no need for them because with the safe guards that new players have right now to protect them untill they learn the game it would be more even before the killing could begin. there for the class would not be needed. But right now in this time with the rules as they are the class was needed to give newer players a way to compete with the older with better systems, better crits and better equipment and as long as someone can log on 10 plus crits and clean house getting all thet items and gold they want there will be a need for pacis.

Common sence nothing more, Instead of whineing(spelling to early) people should be asking themselves if we want them gone that bad what sacrifice should we make to get them out, and there is only one that is realistic enough to make it work one alt. then they are not needed and can be removed.

your on crack.

1. it's not common sense. i don't know how long you've played, names get passed on and traded so many times. when people talked about abra not bein' around i thought about the original abra that was a co-founder of my old clan, but if you've been around for a year then you should recall that you are mistaken about the purpose of pacifists.

2. there is no reason at they can do the same thing as ten alts! i think it's purely a lack of foresight. who would've believed that nightmist would exploit such small things so obsessively? well anyone knows nightmist...

3. even if your common sense wasn't inspired by rubber cement, it still can't make connections with reality. pacifists give new players a way to compete with older players? because older plays have 10 alts? pacifisits are used by older players too, and probably with much more success. so where's the advantage to newer players?whatever advantage they have is being used by older players who can apply thier superior knowledge of the game.

4. i love how you make offer a solution to a fictional problem. a 1-alt nightmist isn't going to happen to this server. the gods say it isn't in the stars, and aside from that it would be incredibly unfair to newer players.

now seriously, this isn't complicated. pacifists are making absurd amounts of cash for the purpose of lavishing it on thier alts. this (and other things)is contrary to the purpose of pacifists in several ways. so just stop them from doing that. nightmist could use a class that excells in hanging around and not being an asshole, but pacifists went way, way, off course on that one.

Edited by dognapot, 12 June 2004 - 08:42 PM.

[alone]

You'ld have to kill 285,715 Modern Art Sculptures getting 350 gold of each of them..

When was the last time you did any maths?
Calculator: 10000000/350 = 28571.428

[lowmion]

heh,
missed a decimal point somewhere, was using the grey matter not the calculator,

ok using that then the time it would take to get a cobalt staff =

Calculator: 28571.428*2/60/24 = 39.6825388888889 days

and using the 8 hrs a day of game play formula that would equal

Calculator: 28571.428*2/60/24*3 = 119.047616666667 8 hr sessions in the museum,

I like the error's I made b4 better, lol

Kinda put's the whole get a cobalt staff real quick on a paci thing into perspective huh?

Edited by lowmion, 12 June 2004 - 10:38 PM.

[Shane]

Shane, stop talking as if people are mad because they can't get PKed. It's not that.

My point here is that if its not ppl bitching about not being able to kill pacis its something else. So it goes from one whine to another whine and even yet another whine. Which brings me to a question I have asked before, whats your next complaint?

Edited by Shane, 12 June 2004 - 10:35 PM.

[Shane]

Well again like I said before I DON'T want a paci. Whenever TR uses a paci it is to take it to cg or some other boss where other clans will meet and cast JZ and Greater Pact. I know because when me and Pure joined DC we went to the Giant Sand Wurm and got the kill because we howed up a few min late. I'm agreeing with people saying they should just have to keep the gold they make to there self. About the amount of time a paci has to make 10 mill is wrong. This is so because what if someone dies in the museum on the second floor? You kill the sculpture that killed them and get there gold. You can take a paci to where vines are and when someone dies they can pick up items or go to the Demonic General and get halberd to sell. They make gold much quicker than people think.

What is the big deal with them making gold? Isnt the gold there for ppl to make? Not like the gold is not supposed to be made. You say you dont want a paci, fine then stop complaining about others making gold and go on with the game or move on to your next complaint.

[dognapot]

shane, the problem with them making gold is that it they make gold through a solo-crit that's blessed with certain protections as a result of thier alignment. when the money leaves thier pockets and goes to a crit used for killing then it becomes a problem. they're supposed to against violence by name, yet they fund killers? and it's a pretty safe bet that if pacifists couldn't transfer any money or items (like they can't transfer damage), they would be more popularly used by the people they were made for.

[Kalypso]

shane, the problem with them making gold is that it they make gold through a solo-crit that's blessed with certain protections as a result of thier alignment. when the money leaves thier pockets and goes to a crit used for killing then it becomes a problem. they're supposed to against violence by name, yet they fund killers? and it's a pretty safe bet that if pacifists couldn't transfer any money or items (like they can't transfer damage), they would be more popularly used by the people they were made for.

finally someone makes sense

[PureMourning]

Yeah thank you I'm not complaining about them making the gold or being better than me. I thank dog for explaining to people that they shouldn't be allowed to make gold the way that they do or be able to distribute it to other characters.

This is Fossae btw.

Edited by PureMourning, 12 June 2004 - 11:29 PM.

[Shane]

Doesnt matter if its a paci or not, the gold is gonna be made and used for whatever purpose. Only difference is that if its not a paci you cant stomp it to the ground without effort or challenge. Which I still think is a problem. Stop complaining and let ppl get to where they can give you a challenge instead of you totaly stomping them down. Or does that bother you that they just might be able to fight back?

[Gaddy]

I <3 Dognapot because he always makes everything make sense and owns the noobs who try to take shots at what he says.

Edit- Btw Lich, I know who you are, you've played this game as long as me, and I know you don't have a cobalt, so don't try taking shots at my "30" alts concept, where I have something like 14 crits in my account that ever actually log on, and only 12 of them actually ever do anything. I don't have a cobalt because I don't see the item as worth it at the momment. I'd rather have my crits than a cobalt because I would rather be able to kill a boss than win a mosh.

You try to play pretend like I'm wrong because I play several alts and whatnot, but you do too, just not now because you're on the paci you play in zeum. Stop trying to hack off people's mouths to protect your wallet.

Edited by Gaddy, 12 June 2004 - 11:38 PM.

[Gaddy]

Doesnt matter if its a paci or not, the gold is gonna be made and used for whatever purpose. Only difference is that if its not a paci you cant stomp it to the ground without effort or challenge. Which I still think is a problem. Stop complaining and let ppl get to where they can give you a challenge instead of you totaly stomping them down. Or does that bother you that they just might be able to fight back?

....you say that as though players making trips to train in places are actually killed that often...Players don't actually die every time they leave town, stop playing pretend.

I haven't been killed in desert in longer than I can remember, people simply do not check it often enough.

I've been killed in the museum, 3 of my thieves, once as far back as I can remember, and that was chris just a while back when I had first left TR for DH.

I've only been killed in Chronos one time on my party, that was a mage running with protect setting off the traps to kill me.

HOWEVER- I have practically NEVER even seen people in either mountain area- one time in each place..frostborn i saw people yesterday, sentant i saw people the first time i explored it.



The problem is, new players aren't exploring because they can go sit on a paci to make gold. New players can play alts and train in more places than they do, if they did, they wouldn't be killed. However, they sit in the hedge maze or rose garden to train....places that pkers check practically every 5 mins. Someone check RG cause they're looking for GCB, hedge maze cause they know they may find someone bold enough to train there or the HL.

Not saying abandon common areas, just try exploring some, there are a TON of places in Nightmist that are under-used and no one will pk you even if they see you because the people who go there don't pk in general, even if you're there at the same time as them.

[Bean]

Like I said, I hardly think It will change anytime soon.

Last time I saw a problem brought up that had this much support behind it, JLH or pandilex posted after awhile with an affirmative on the change. The change was implemented soon after...

Seeing as the only replies from both of those gentlemen have been to the negative, I just dont see it changing in the near future.

So the best solution is to just sit back, and wait for the opportune time to bring this up once more. Rather than bickering over, and over, and over.

Basically, calm down guys, no need to get snippy with eachother.

[Shane]

Not trying to get snippy nor am I playing pretend. MY POINT here is that everyone seems to find one thing or another to whine about when it comes to a paci. Gaddy, you cant not use yourself as an example as a pkable person. Not many ppl will mess with you because 1 your a nice guy, 2 you out of the many few have skills and are an actual challenge. I see ppl die all the time, over and over. The gold will be made reguardless if its on a paci or on a normal. How about this, since you wanna seperate one class out from transfering gold why not single them all out. No transfering anything from one alt to another. Better yet make the game 1 alt, but we all know that will not happen either. Everyone keeps going on like this game is the world and life of some. Its data on the server. So what if one class makes tons more gold than another glass. That should give everyone who whines more reason to go out and make more gold or join the masses and do it like they do with a paci. But instead the whine and cry about it over and over till it gets old. Then when the realise that their complaint isnt going anywhere, they find something else to complain about. Look at how many posts there are about pacis, and how many times Pandilex has said that the class is more balanced than the rest and will not change. Its a game, get over it. Pacis give others and new ppl a little advantage over the rest of you. Its bound to happen sooner or later. Accept it and start preparing for the challenge that these ppl on pacis might present instead of constantly trying to find a way to stop them from becoming a challenge. The economy of NM was long screwed before pacis came along so thats not an issue.

[Lady_Maha]

Edit: forgot to log out the wife so i removed and reposted it as my self.

Edited by Lady_Maha, 13 June 2004 - 01:34 AM.

[Lich]

[quote name='dognapot' date='Jun 12 2004, 09:40 PM']your on crack.

1. it's not common sense. i don't know how long you've played, names get passed on and traded so many times. when people talked about abra not bein' around i thought about the original abra that was a co-founder of my old clan, but if you've been around for a year then you should recall that you are mistaken about the purpose of pacifists.[/quote]

First my name has been the same since one month after i started playing and has never changed since, I repeatedly change my name if i get a better alt. Next i have played for 1 month shy of 2 years. I remember when paci`s came out and i remember TR and Da and all the big pkers Fighting about them because they could not be killed. I also remeber JLH and Pandi both saying that they were made for the purpose of evening the odds at the time and that they liked them the way they were. I will look for the exact post and put it up later.

[quote name='dognapot' date='Jun 12 2004, 09:40 PM']2. there is no reason at they can do the same thing as ten alts! i think it's purely a lack of foresight. who would've believed that nightmist would exploit such small things so obsessively? well anyone knows nightmist...[/quote]

There is a reason why they can do the same as ten alts because they are one alone, They dont have the aid of 9 brothers to help them achieve their goals, The fact that they can be used by older players is what makes them fair. No matter how long you have played you can get on one and do the same things, meaning that you the older i think im god player can go and farm gold with them as well. to keep yourself stronger. You choose not Not my problem its there you can. dont like that i choose to to build my mains ...Shrugs .. Like i truly care what you think not your game.


[quote name='dognapot' date='Jun 12 2004, 09:40 PM']3. even if your common sense wasn't inspired by rubber cement, it still can't make connections with reality. pacifists give new players a way to compete with older players? because older plays have 10 alts? pacifisits are used by older players too, and probably with much more success. so where's the advantage to newer players?whatever advantage they have is being used by older players who can apply thier superior knowledge of the game.[QUOTE]

You are also the guy who says that weapons you pay millons for in the game break when you attack people therefore making you have to spend millons more to replace it, and you say my common sence is is inspired by rubber cement. Go find a bottle degumm then reread my post. Have actually commented on this part above here.

[quote name='dognapot' date='Jun 12 2004, 09:40 PM']4. i love how you make offer a solution to a fictional problem. a 1-alt nightmist isn't going to happen to this server. the gods say it isn't in the stars, and aside from that it would be incredibly unfair to newer players. [/quote]

Spoken like a multi-alt player, An alt limit with the already in place ten lvl cap and the fact you cant even be pked untill lvl five. Would not be unfair. Because it gives them 15 lvls before they can be untouched to learn the game and the way things are done before you and your crits can kill them unless you are on a low lvl alt. at which time they can fight back because well what do you know you are with in ten lvls of them. so the odds are even. They dont get that advantage now because of the fact that they have to lvl with alts sometimes they cant have more then 4, when you and all your mist head buddies can pk them on 40 plus each on ten crits so that one of you alone can kill them with no problem. The alt limit is my oppion of what I see in game do i care if it is put in. Not really because i like the game and will play it no matter how it is run even if it went pay to play. But obviously you don`t and if you do then quit bitching about something that like the alt limit will not change.


[quote name='dognapot' date='Jun 12 2004, 09:40 PM'] now seriously, this isn't complicated. pacifists are making absurd amounts of cash for the purpose of lavishing it on thier alts. this (and other things)is contrary to the purpose of pacifists in several ways. so just stop them from doing that. nightmist could use a class that excells in hanging around and not being an asshole, but pacifists went way, way, off course on that one.[/quote]

No it didnt, you can sit on a passy and not be an asshole just fine. in fact its funny pacis are the most unrude bunch in this game. In the zuem we play leap frog or give back the gold we steal by accident, If you were to pk me on my main would you give me that gold back.. HELL!!!!!!! NO and i wouldnt expect you to. its part of the game that on my mains i have to live with. But thankfully pacis dont have that problem.

They make massive amounts of gold that they can lavish on their alts, So do you with ten alts in the Rose Garden. to make 150k in the Rose Garden on ten alts with one as a thief hidden (another legal thing that i am sure will be bitched about later.) takes one hour. There is a very little chance to die when you have an arch cleric and two pallys with you to keep you healed and even if you do die that thief runs away to a nopk square to wait on your return and pick up. at which tme you can continue on your marry little way. A paci makes 50k an hour while you are straight running and you can talk on friends, but what is a clan chat. You get to be bored. You get to be alone and you live with it as your way of making money.

I did not use a calculator. Both examples of how much money you can make were tried in game by myself on an arch passy in the zuem, and a fighter with ten crits none below lvl 25 and none above 29 so reguardless what you say they are even and will continue to be so. Untill another way to even the odds is put in and that too will get bitched about because the power that the older players once had is gone.


Edit; was informed by omni tonight that it wasnt the desert it was Rose Garden.

Edited by Lich, 13 June 2004 - 01:50 AM.

[Lich]

shane, the problem with them making gold is that it they make gold through a solo-crit that's blessed with certain protections as a result of thier alignment. when the money leaves thier pockets and goes to a crit used for killing then it becomes a problem. they're supposed to against violence by name, yet they fund killers? and it's a pretty safe bet that if pacifists couldn't transfer any money or items (like they can't transfer damage), they would be more popularly used by the people they were made for.

The christian church is against killing. But it funds The United states army through donations to buy guns and armor. It is by its very nature a group of paci's as in the tenents of the catholic religon it states only a true holy war. One devined by god is a right war. Yet they give money to the milatary all the time to by weapons to kill people.

[dognapot]

you are so on crack. the catholic church is a church. catholicism is a religion. the comparison is not apt. anywhere. especially in a game.

edit: didn't notice that first post. my god man i hope you didn't spend too long on that. while you explain why they can rake in cash and not get hurt, you're forgetting there's a reason why they're a no-alts class. also, you won't find your post. oh and i've never been a heavy alt player. the most i've ever used was two. you should know i'm all in favor of a 1-alt nightmist. with certain conditions to make fair of course. face it. pacifists weren't made to be a substitute for 10 crits. that's insane. you are on crack.

double edit: just noticed you were confused on another matter. a 1-alt rule wouldn't be fair because it would cement the lead current veterans have on every new player. making them untouchable to a certain extent. so yada yada blah blah crack.

Edited by dognapot, 13 June 2004 - 06:17 AM.

[Lich]

Hands you a whole lot more weed you need it.


You didnt even read what they said. So no point discussing it with you and crack baby. Your wrong thats all i have to say and i can also use your own sentence against you. Its not in the cards they are not being changed so get over it.