63 replies to this topic

[Apocalypto]

I was going to respond again, but when people put reasonable responces all that seems to come from it is what the media is already saying. "Obama is dead - Justice Served - Our great nation finally did what they set out to do (but that wasnt what we set out to do wether or not your willing to believe it) -- so anyways, i think ill call it a day...

edit: and btw sandy, it was way more that 40k.. like 25mill i think

Edited by Apocalypto, 03 May 2011 - 07:08 PM.

[Crane]

I find the ridiculousness of some people's points laughably pathetic. To start, imagine.
Its a clear morning in London. Two planes streak across the sky slaming into Buckingham Palace and the Parliment building. Another is crashed into a field just outside of the city. There is no warning, no measure of preparedness. Before the day is over, 3000 londoners are dead, and a terrorist group operating under a calculated plan is uncovered. You cannot, with a clear conscience say to me that you would have no remorse, no empathy, no feelings for any of those victims. If you do, I can no longer discuss with you, because it is not merely lack of empathy that you run your life under, but pure apathy. I was merely celebrating the fact that the mastermind of NUMEROUS terrorist plots was assassinated in the vicinity of his own home, in a country that lied to us about his location, by a truly elite members of our military. I'm also pointing out the fact that had the situation occured in a new location, as described in my anecdote, i would not be apathic, i would actually try to give a crap, that's all.





USA FTW.

You do realise that's an ad hominem attack, don't you?

We had the London Underground Bombings that killed 52 people, plus we've had plenty of experience with the IRA in the 1980s, who almost succeeded in killing the entire Cabinet by bombing the Grand Hotel in Brighton. Of course I feel for the people who were killed in the terrorist attacks, but I don't let it cause me to go into a blind rage and a killing spree. I accept the feelings of anger and sadness that I get, let them pass, and then decide how to act in the long-term, rather than go on impulse. If that makes me not worth talking to, I'm sorry you think that.

As well as those who died in the Twin Tower attacks, I also feel for all of those innocent people who die in the Middle East under our bloodthirsty response, like those journalists and non-hostile militants gunned down by that Apache helicopter. Don't think for one second that the USA is Lawful Good.

I take a stance of neutrality.

[Sandy]

I was going to respond again, but when people put reasonable responces all that seems to come from it is what the media is already saying. "Obama is dead - Justice Served - Our great nation finally did what they set out to do (but that wasnt what we set out to do wether or not your willing to believe it) -- so anyways, i think ill call it a day...

edit: and btw sandy, it was way more that 40k.. like 25mill i think

Sweet ass! 25 mil for tha win!

[Silk]

On a side note or ten people hate america because of one major thing....We've been on this planet as a country for less than 250 years, we have the best of all worlds, we might not be persay the Strongest country in the world but we have enough of everything to do anything we want.)including weight to throw around)

Saying 'we' as a country is a hollow saying. I'm pretty sure your poor do not see it the same as having the best of all worlds.

Top 30 on Human Development Index Ranking

Norway
Australia
Iceland
Canada
Ireland
Netherlands
Sweden
France
Switzerland
Japan
Luxembourg
Finland
United States
Austria
Spain
Denmark
Belgium
...

http://www.nowpublic...ies-2009-un-hdi

I didnt say it was the greatest country in the world.
Um still we have the best of everything, regardless of press rankings, we have poverty yes, but its mild, we have crime yes but who doesnt?
stop import stop export and it doesnt matter the US is self sufficient, atleast long enough for numerous countries to cease existance.....Americans were sent here as exiles from religion we got here looked around some and said damn this place has it all, word got back to england taxes were raised and raised again....we threw some tea in a harbor flipped the bird and said bring it (most of this attitude probably stemming from being british and watching many armies falter trying to cross a channel smal in comparison to the atlantic ocean)

Also Every country in the world that is a major power has had there times of limitless invasions, their chance to rule the world. China, Great Britain, Rome, Napoleonic France, It's our turn, On that same note i learned something the otherday i think explains america.....You may have noticed that alot of countries armed forces Salute...This ofc has gone on a long time, Only Americans Salute with middle and index finger to the brow, the british, french, italian armed forces along with many other countries invert their hands to Palm up when they Salute

Ok now to my point Once your country has suffered defeat in a time of war, and you are forced to surrender, from then on your armed forces Salute Palm up.......
Until that deafeat comes we remain the only world power that salutes palm down.....
We don't lose, we havent lost and to be an American is to never even admit defeat, or lost cause, a trait definately inherited from our mother country England

A two finger salute is also the way they do it in Poland. The palm up is simply the most natural way, and as such is the reason most countries use it. I don't know how you stumbled on your information, but it sounds like bullocks to me.

Poland lost to everyone including Nazi germany...and if you think palm twisted around backwards is natural youre some kind of mutant

Who won the Civil War btw? Or doesn't it count if you're slaughtering your own?

It does count wehn you are slaughtering your own and the UNION ARMY won the union army being in support of the existing government the Confederate States of America lost had they still an army they would salute palm up.....but they dont

in closing Osama is dead the WORLD should be rejoicing! I for one am!

Osama was nothing more then a symbol, he hasn't played an active role in years. If anything, you fuel the fire by giving them a martyr (it's still the right outcome tho, his dead is just not as useful as one would like it to be). It's far to deep rooted, and they work in cells for a reason.

Don't get me wrong, I guess it has to come to this eventually and purely looking at the math, I'm glad he's gone, but you might want to watch that you do not turn into fanatics yourself. Even if it is for your own 'righteous' cause.

All of the countries in which Al'queda hides are not in favor of Muslim extremism yeah some innocents die but that happens everyday......The math you say? thats the problem theres one thing math always makes, and that complete sense....Feelings, emotion, passion cannot be broken down into a mathematic equation....ever seen Bones.....yeah shes a genius but shes socially non functional because she sees everything based on pure science and math....so stick to math and leave the "feelings" to people who understand them for what they are

[Sandy]

By the way Crane,
I think your taking what some people are saying the wrong way. I do not believe that people who want to fight for their country, to rid themselves of unnecessary evils are, they themselves, an unnecessary evil. There are lots of people who would take revenge on someone who hurt their family. That doesnt mean that those people are terrorists also. The Afgahn people were more than happy that we were over there, helping them re-establish their government and also helping to drive back the Al Qeada's presence. I do not believe that they would fault us for celebrating in the capture and death of Osama Bin Laden. We obviously can't be that horrible of a nation, especially if we even gave him a "burial" that was fitting of his religion.

I think, as a country, we stand together wanting the safety and security of knowing our enemies can't harm us anymore. The same is true if someone broke into your house, and attempted to kill your children or your wife. You would get revenge. You would make sure they could not do that to anyone else, or die trying. Just like John Wayne or Clint Eastwood.

[Autek]

I'm offended that Obama is getting so much credit for this. Maybe he gave the final OK on whether or not to go take him out, but that was about the extent of his role. Give the credit to those who were doing surveillance on the courier that led us to him for months, those who actually took him out, and those in general who have been on the hunt for a decade.

Like Apocalypto said earlier, it's awfully convenient for Obama to be getting all this credit as he begins working for re-election. I think it's just the bias of the news networks that are twisting this into their favor so they can get another 4 years opportunity to cram their beliefs down the throats of Americans.

[Silk]

I'm offended that Obama is getting so much credit for this. Maybe he gave the final OK on whether or not to go take him out, but that was about the extent of his role. Give the credit to those who were doing surveillance on the courier that led us to him for months, those who actually took him out, and those in general who have been on the hunt for a decade.

Like Apocalypto said earlier, it's awfully convenient for Obama to be getting all this credit as he begins working for re-election. I think it's just the bias of the news networks that are twisting this into their favor so they can get another 4 years opportunity to cram their beliefs down the throats of Americans.

195% supported

[Apocalypto]

I was using that to point out the fact that what happens generally isnt coincidental. Such as the towers being hit in general. Draw your own conclusion.

[Sublime]

The US says that they performed facial recognition and took tissue samples to confirm he is Osama Bin Laden... well, the latter is only possible if they have a pre-existing sample to compare against - I wonder where and when they managed to acquire such a sample that was definitely his.

A few years ago Osama Bin Laden's sister (who was living and working in the US) passed away, before her death, she donated her brain to the US military in hopes that her own murderous brother would be stopped.

It's not just American's who should be happy about his death, it's the entire world... You have all talked about another country being the "top dog" or "#1 country." Well, think about if the UK was the most powerful country, you would have been the ones who suffered through a devastating 9/11 attack instead of us, and your views and ideals about this matter would be completely different than what they are now, because you didn't go through what America had to go through.

So before you decide that our whole country is full of extremest people, think about yourself inside that tower, or on one of those planes crashing into the towers, or the field in Pennsylvania. Think of those people before you think of anyone, because they are the ones who know exactly what that monster was capable of.

[Freek]

The US says that they performed facial recognition and took tissue samples to confirm he is Osama Bin Laden... well, the latter is only possible if they have a pre-existing sample to compare against - I wonder where and when they managed to acquire such a sample that was definitely his.

A few years ago Osama Bin Laden's sister (who was living and working in the US) passed away, before her death, she donated her brain to the US military in hopes that her own murderous brother would be stopped.

It's not just American's who should be happy about his death, it's the entire world... You have all talked about another country being the "top dog" or "#1 country." Well, think about if the UK was the most powerful country, you would have been the ones who suffered through a devastating 9/11 attack instead of us, and your views and ideals about this matter would be completely different than what they are now, because you didn't go through what America had to go through.

So before you decide that our whole country is full of extremest people, think about yourself inside that tower, or on one of those planes crashing into the towers, or the field in Pennsylvania. Think of those people before you think of anyone, because they are the ones who know exactly what that monster was capable of.

THAT is why people hate America. Not because we are the "#1 Country"

[Crane]

By the way Crane,
I think your taking what some people are saying the wrong way. I do not believe that people who want to fight for their country, to rid themselves of unnecessary evils are, they themselves, an unnecessary evil. There are lots of people who would take revenge on someone who hurt their family. That doesnt mean that those people are terrorists also. The Afgahn people were more than happy that we were over there, helping them re-establish their government and also helping to drive back the Al Qeada's presence. I do not believe that they would fault us for celebrating in the capture and death of Osama Bin Laden. We obviously can't be that horrible of a nation, especially if we even gave him a "burial" that was fitting of his religion.

I think, as a country, we stand together wanting the safety and security of knowing our enemies can't harm us anymore. The same is true if someone broke into your house, and attempted to kill your children or your wife. You would get revenge. You would make sure they could not do that to anyone else, or die trying. Just like John Wayne or Clint Eastwood.

You are right; that is why I chose my words carefully. I don't wish to let rage and emotion consume me while I decide how to act in the long-run; in the short-term, however, instinct is often your best friend, and I would have no qualms about facing an intruder and running him through with a samurai sword if he so threatened me or those I love. But when something has already happened, when the perpetrators are dead and the damage has been done, that is when you have to tread carefully on how you respond.

There is an element of jealousy against the US, I'll admit, just like there was against the UK back in the day of the British Empire, but The People's Republic of China is fast contesting the #1 spot, and while they have terrorist attacks too, they're not on the same level as in the Western world because China only push their muscle around within what it considers its territories (Tibet and Taiwan). Outside of their borders, while influential, they're not as hot on foreign policies as we are.

Edited by Crane, 04 May 2011 - 09:19 AM.

[Prototype]

The fanatisc part isn't because you got 'revenge', which I have no problem with whatsoever. It's about continiously calling US the best country in the world, and that no one can stand in your way, one even went as far as wondering why the US didn't just drop an A-bomb because it would be so much easier. I'm pretty sure those terrorists share some of the same feelings although it being a different cause.

And those attitudes is what's unfitting of a world power. We as a world stopped Osama, no matter who pulled the trigger in the end, as I'm pretty sure it wasn't you nor me. Convincing yourself that you are better then the rest of the world because you live in America is not so far of from terrorists believing they are better because of the ideals they hold.

“Those who know how to win are much more numerous than those who know how to make proper use of their victories”

Aka, don't be a turnip about it.

[Prophet]

This thread has made me lose my faith in humanity.

[Sausage]

^ Sausage likes this.

[Apocalypto]

I hope i agree with you, because if i dont......... "god" <<<

[Vodka]

I don't even know if I believe he's been killed/dead. Anyone can come up some story making everyone else believe it.

Call me twisted, or just really super curious... but I would like to see some kind of photographic proof of his demise. Or, just SOMETHING that will let us know.

[Isolated]

congrats on making a martyr out of an a$shole.

obama doesn't deserve any credit and it makes me sick watching msnbc congrat him on something he had no part of

give the 25mil+ to the shooter.

[Crane]

It does anger me that Obama is using the whole incident as a means to boost his popularity - if it failed like Operation Eagle Claw in the 1980s, he'll probably end up getting the boot. I would like to see some photographic evidence too, but publicly showing off a corpse violates the Geneva Convention (I'm not sure what the exact definition is), although the fact they considered doing so shows the US doesn't really care about that. I guess their concern is if people see a picture of a mutilated body said to be Osama's, raging emotions will cause some people to do something stupid, like the US's knee-jerk reaction of invading Afghanistan after 9/11.

I'm pretty sure the shooter, if Osama was killed, won't get the prize money because he was a Navy SEAL, one of a couple of dozen bound by secrecy, and their intelligence came from a courier they were spying on rather than someone willingly working for the US. Besides, do you really think the US government will want to part with $25m in their current economic state?

Ultimately we won't be hearing the last of this... there will be another Osama Bin Laden, and another after that. The question is... what will the Western world turn into as a result? More punitive anti-terrorism laws like the USA PATRIOT Act? Labelled a dissident or worse for not following a narrowly-defined life path and choice of religion? Arbitrary arrests for potential pre-crime? (As a recent example, a child was arrested during the Royal wedding for openly carrying a pen due to the potential for anti-Royal vandalism - here's the video)

ADDENDUM: There does seem to be plenty of evidence that an operation did at least take place in Abbottabad, since the local children are collecting and selling pieces of the Black Hawk that was destroyed.

Edited by Crane, 05 May 2011 - 10:29 AM.

[Isolated]

considering what "there" spending my money on, it'd be alot better cause then bailing out some huge corporation that outsources 70% of its jobs..

and considering what most people make in the military.. i'd say give to the seals.

(friend of mine makes a little above 9 an hour in the navy)

I've never been much of a racist but that kenyon needs to gtfo out of office, I'd rather see the trump at least he understands how to succesfully minipulate the economy

pardon my spelling

[Isolated]

Before the day is over, 3000 londoners are dead,

something like this did happen visit ww2, the whole nazi bombing england thing.. was kind of a big deal 70 years ago

[Trendkill]

/t isolated did that involve osama bin laden?

This whole post was about americans being happy that justice was finally served after 10 years of chasing him.

/t vodka ok how do you explain the results of the DNA of osama bin laden?!?

/t crane ok does the London Underground Bombings that killed 52 people involve osama bin laden?

Also i agree Obama should NOT of taken credit for the death and capture of bin laden's body it should of been our Navy Seals.

All comes back to justice.

[Crane]

They took a sample of the DNA, and compared it to what? You find a pool of blood you cannot identify who it is unless you have the DNA on record already. Having the DNA of a close relative might indicate it is who you are looking for, but isn't 100%.

The London Underground bombings was home-grown terrorism, a number of youths inspired by extremist Muslim clerics; whether they themselves are inspired by Osama bin Laden is hard to determine. They are otherwise a splinter cell.

As for giving $25m to the shooter, who was the shooter out of those two dozen Navy SEALs? The other problem is that giving them the prize money will identify them and greatly increase the risk of retaliatory attacks, if not against them then their families and military installations, like that one that occurred in the USA (I've forgotten the name of the base) when an army Major turned rogue.

One question... if it all comes back to justice, what is the actual purpose of justice?

Edited by Crane, 06 May 2011 - 01:07 AM.

[Sublime]

The US says that they performed facial recognition and took tissue samples to confirm he is Osama Bin Laden... well, the latter is only possible if they have a pre-existing sample to compare against - I wonder where and when they managed to acquire such a sample that was definitely his.

A few years ago Osama Bin Laden's sister (who was living and working in the US) passed away, before her death, she donated her brain to the US military in hopes that her own murderous brother would be stopped.

[Trendkill]

the purpose for justice is that maybe it helps those families of lost love ones sleep a little better at night knowing justice has been served?

[Numb]

didn't expect you to get my point "trendkill", I'm not going to point it out ill let you guess

btw jase, I can just keep making accounts its not like I care about a forum account so keep congrats on locking my posts "privleges"

[Abstract]

Btw "Numb", I can just keep banning accounts, its not like i care about the 2 seconds it takes me to do it. Your warn level was raised 10% by myself for bypassing a swear filter. Not my fault it was already at 90%.

"Ok now to my point Once your country has suffered defeat in a time of war, and you are forced to surrender, from then on your armed forces Salute Palm up.......
Until that deafeat comes we remain the only world power that salutes palm down.....
We don't lose, we havent lost and to be an American is to never even admit defeat, or lost cause, a trait definately inherited from our mother country England"

Also didnt you lose in Vietnam? Start soluting palm up please.

The reasoning i heard for certain countries (And in particular the British Navy), for saluting the way you Americans do, was because when saluting "Palm up" you can disguise a blade behind your hand. This itself was attempted on a British Naval officer, who was attacked by a soldier concealing a blade in this fasion. So by saluting the way you do, nothing can be concealed behind the hand.

Either way, my story is probably crap too, one of those Military rumours you hear from spending time in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban.

[Crane]

I'm not sure if I can dig out a reference for that reason behind the salute, but it actually sounds weirdly plausible to me, although I'd question how you'd hide the blade when you're not saluting (e.g. marching) and whip it out during the salute.

Look beyond name tags and technicalities... calling the Vietnam War a political conflict (in actuality, it was a 'proxy war') is like calling torture "enhanced interrogation techniques" - it doesn't change its form.

Edited by Crane, 06 May 2011 - 03:59 PM.

[Trendkill]

Im sorry if i offended anyone...in a nutshell im just glad that the families of all the lost loved ones that died during 9/11 attacks have gotten justice. It also done my heart really good to see many people from different religions and colors and cultures work together to help eachother during that day and still to this day support the families of lost loved ones. I guess its nice to see that our american people will work together to help others, that not all americans are greedy and self centered and only care about themselves.

Again...im sorry if i offended anyone. Im just glad that justice has prevailed.

[Sandy]

They took a sample of the DNA, and compared it to what? You find a pool of blood you cannot identify who it is unless you have the DNA on record already. Having the DNA of a close relative might indicate it is who you are looking for, but isn't 100%.

The London Underground bombings was home-grown terrorism, a number of youths inspired by extremist Muslim clerics; whether they themselves are inspired by Osama bin Laden is hard to determine. They are otherwise a splinter cell.

As for giving $25m to the shooter, who was the shooter out of those two dozen Navy SEALs? The other problem is that giving them the prize money will identify them and greatly increase the risk of retaliatory attacks, if not against them then their families and military installations, like that one that occurred in the USA (I've forgotten the name of the base) when an army Major turned rogue.

One question... if it all comes back to justice, what is the actual purpose of justice?

Osama was hospitalized w/ kidney failure. I am sure they had DNA samples there.

[Wanted]

Lol…I just saw this topic and decided to put my 2 centinto it
Note: I do not intended to hurt anyone's feelings and Iam sorry if I do.

Firstly, the local news we see on TV is nothing but propaganda. Everything you see is censored by the government (to a certain extent) to propagateits agenda.

Example: Citizens in Pakistan having a protest over Osama'sdeath. Many of us saw such images in the news after the Death of Osama and thought to ourselves what screwed up people. (at least I did). However, thereare reports arising stating that "Pakistan's former president struck a secretdeal almost a decade ago permitting a U.S. operation against Osama bin Laden on Pakistani soil….The sources told theGuardian both sides agreed Pakistan would fiercely denounce the incursionafterward."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/05/10/bin-laden-us-pakistan.html


Such a report makes more sense, cause hey, I don't thinkanyone would be retarded enough to support such a crack head. You may ask, why would such pictures be propagated? Let see, Pakistan seems like a good countryto attack after the US is done with Afghanistan. In addition, Iran is alsopainted in a negative picture for the same purpose.

Second, I believe the whole Osama thing is bullsh!t. I'msure the US/CIA knew the whereabouts of Osama all along and finally decided to finish the story. Why would I say this, the article above suggests it. In addition

- 2011 has been the deadliest year for US forcesin Afghanistan since the beginning of the war in that country. http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/2011-pace-be-deadliest-year-so-far-us-tr

- Many allied countries are starting to pack their bags and leaving Afghanistan, leaving the US alone there.

The US realizes that they will face much more casualtiesif they are the only ones there and decide it is time to end the story. By endingthe story they could leave the country in pride.

I also don't believe it can take 10 years for the US and CIA to track down someone. No matter how good they may be at hiding.

Three word give me a good chuckle: Justice, Freedom, andDemocracy. All three were used by Bush to justify its actions in Afghanistanand Iraq.

For those who think Justice has been served… I ask what is Justice. Is it just to kill thousands of innocent people because approximately 3000 people died on 9/11. If you call that justice, then I do not want to be alivewhen those we have harmed claim justice over us. Because in that case, they wouldhave to wipe us off the map to achieve it. Yes, we have killed Osama. But what destruction did we cause and whose lives did we devastate to achieve such a goal. We mourn the lives of our loved ones we lost on 9/11 and our troops while those in Iraq and Afghanistan mourn loss of innocent loved one who died due to our bombings and misfires. As it is said, what goes around comes around. Justice will be served when Osama,Bush, and Bair all face war crimes. Osama is dead…so now the other two need to go.


"Freedom?" What is freedom when our own governments scare the sh!t out of us of a potential attack on us so they can get our consent to go to war. It wasn't Osama that continued to instill fear in us and decreasedour freedoms in the pursuit of national security. Which freedom have you achieved today that you did not have the day before Osama was killed. Living a life in fear leads to us accepting anything the government does.

Democracy! The democracy that preaches the freedom of beliefs and what not but went to great extents to ensure communism did not spreadduring the cold war. Or the democracy we say we are spreading but are merelysupporting authoritarian governments who are our allies.
Yea we kill the #1 most wanted person, but somone else is now the #1 most wanted. Do I hear another war?

Ill shut up now cause I could go on forever. These are just my beliefs and i do not intended to harm anyone elses beiefs. God Bless our troops, but sorry, War is not the Answer.

Edited by Wanted, 11 May 2011 - 02:01 PM.