57 replies to this topic

[Sneaky]

No, admins didn't intend for thieves to power train-- thats why it has been removed. If they didn't intend them to be able to steal from every monster in an area, they would have edited the ability to not be able to steal from monsters when they removed it from stealing gold that monsters got from players.

[Crane]

I've just seen a fine example of Greater Pact being abused in Tirantek... the Pacifist appears and selectively casts Greater Pact on attacking crits, usually Berserkers, to prevent Drow Rogues from being killed quickly (so they kill crits), and also at the Drow Archmage, where crits are Greater Pact'd so the damage dished out by the Drow Archmage and his underling Drow Mages is spread across fewer crits, hence more damage and a higher chance of a death... and you're telling me that's a good tactic? It's totally cowardly, and not even pacifism.

ADDENDUM: That's probably a very good case to make it self-cast; generally I find that Pacifists use Subdue and Shield Self if they want to protect crits from monster damage, as it lasts longer.

Edited by Crane, 24 April 2006 - 05:23 PM.

[Raylen]

I've just seen a fine example of Greater Pact being abused in Tirantek... the Pacifist appears and selectively casts Greater Pact on attacking crits, usually Berserkers, to prevent Drow Rogues from being killed quickly (so they kill crits), and also at the Drow Archmage, where crits are Greater Pact'd so the damage dished out by the Drow Archmage and his underling Drow Mages is spread across fewer crits, hence more damage and a higher chance of a death... and you're telling me that's a good tactic? It's totally cowardly, and not even pacifism.

Hehe few people owned by Gareth

[Momba]

Delete Pacis.
Remove the PK level cap.
Give zerkers atleast a thong.
Return thieves to the days of glory. The stam bug was not a bug. Was a lame excuse for ruining a very nice class to make standard attacker classes more appealing.

[Urgency]

wouldnt it make more sense to not use greater pact when trying to stop someone from attacking a boss when a paci could just stand on a boss square and JZ the place for hours on end hence forth making it easier to kill off crits faster then casting greater pact and letting said boss do it?

[Snoopy]

change this and be sure to also stop them dragging monsters. If your talking about tirentek, for example vortexing onto the first floor mines to be greeted by 2 drow rouges and 2 scouts dosnt sound a very "pacifist" thing to be inflicting on them either.
Also make them work the same way as protect does for mages on traps so they connot repeatedly set off traps on oposing partys.
Fix all the bugs or leave them alone.

[deadman]

Or complain that you can't stop bosses from being killed? Sucks people can't screw people out of killing things.

[Gaddy]

Thieves stealing from monster's doesn't prevent you from killing a monster and getting a drop, so I don't see the connection there...

I think it's a clear abuse and I doubt admins intended Greater Pact to be used in order to prevent one player from attacking a monster. I think if they can be banned for dragging monsters, they should be banned for keeping people from properly playing the game.

I doubt the admins intended thieves to be able to wipe an area of gold, but it happens deal with it.

Well you see, if you'd bothered to read my post, you would notice that is exactly what I was saying. It has been that way since the start so people don't complain about it because they are used to it.

The connection is that there is no gold on monsters like Sand Spiders, who are killed for exp and gold---which is pretty much exactly the same as being prevented from killing a boss, in my opinion.

[Prophet]

Thieves stealing from monster's doesn't prevent you from killing a monster and getting a drop, so I don't see the connection there...

I think it's a clear abuse and I doubt admins intended Greater Pact to be used in order to prevent one player from attacking a monster. I think if they can be banned for dragging monsters, they should be banned for keeping people from properly playing the game.

I doubt the admins intended thieves to be able to wipe an area of gold, but it happens deal with it.

Well you see, if you'd bothered to read my post, you would notice that is exactly what I was saying. It has been that way since the start so people don't complain about it because they are used to it.

The connection is that there is no gold on monsters like Sand Spiders, who are killed for exp and gold---which is pretty much exactly the same as being prevented from killing a boss, in my opinion.

I had read your post but it appeared that Deimos hadn't understood your point so I tried reitterating it to him.

So apology accepted.

[Crane]

Pacifists are harmed by traps too, not just the party that decides to camp on it.

As for them not dragging... hmmm... you see, in places like Harabec Dungeon, dragging makes it all the more difficult for Pacifists; I get so annoyed when I can't shake off the Wall Crawlers!

[Prophet]

Pacifists are harmed by traps too, not just the party that decides to camp on it.

As for them not dragging... hmmm... you see, in places like Harabec Dungeon, dragging makes it all the more difficult for Pacifists; I get so annoyed when I can't shake off the Wall Crawlers!

Except 2 drow rogues on the starter square is a little more harmful than a bit of gping. By the time my screen has updated from vortexing you can guarantee 4 will probably be dead.

[Snoopy]

pacifists are harmed by traps - move onto trap square move off on off on off heal heal on off on off heal heal (by now a party of say 16 crits is just about dead becuase even with 6 clerics you cant keep up with the traps setting off on multiple crits. - 1 you dont have enough stam and 2 the lag of the traps setting makes you freeze when trying to swop between clerics. (and dont say move off the square becuase a) allot are kill to pass and you move of 1 square with a trap onto the next square with perhaps a drow rouge - that and your so lagged you cant actually move)

Edited by Snoopy, 24 April 2006 - 10:36 PM.

[Jigsaw]

leave it the same, funny watching certain people cry.

[Raylen]

Fix all the bugs or leave them alone.

There's your bottom line right there.

[Thunderja]

Emphasis on ALL.

[draykill]

Is it possible the people against this change either gp players or don't have to deal with being gped?

[deadman]

Not everything can be fixed... this one can.. only one reason why you are fighting it so much that i can think of is what Jer said...

Make Greater Pact self-cast.. should have been that way in the beginning.. this way no one can mess with the system and abuse it to get alts from point A to point B or stop people from killing monsters to get drops or to help their clans..

[Shaginator]

I hate to turn this into a personal attack, but seriously everyone here who is complaining about this......you are all the same people that come to the forums and complain everytime you think someone has found any kind of advantage over you. Yes it is a pain in the arse, and maybe not even quite "fair"...but it makes sense and its already part of the game. Let it be for crying out loud, and try to actually work a way around it instead of asking staff to change things everytime you see something you dont like. This is a game, its supposed to be challenging. You should not be able to just run to HL and drop it without challenges like this. Thats why its called a boss.

Edited by Shaginator, 25 April 2006 - 01:46 AM.

[Gaddy]

I would actually like to see the game without greater pact at all.
Subdue and shield self alone make it so a paci recieves practically no damage, with greater pact they cannot be attacked and they can attack.

Why do we have characters in game that are practically invincible? And lets not play pretend, a 4 stat pacifist can live anywhere without much trouble; I have taken them everywhere, really, and never had problems except for drow rogues and getting lost.

[Wolfgang]

But its not just about them surviving on their own... its about aiding others to survive as well...

[Thunderja]

Dragging monsters, setting off traps, drop JZ when the other player has no stam. All bigger problems than this yet this seems to be the flavour-of-the-month. Out of all the previous things GP is the most friendly, has nobody ever had a mate on a paci gp'ing their clerics at a boss so they don't get hit?

All in all it's just another brick in the wall.

[deadman]

Or has anyone had someone greater pacting someone's crits so that they can not get a kill on a boss or kill it till someone else gets there first.. to steal kill..?

Greater Pact is fixable.. Justice Zone is not.. Greater Pact should be self cast only.. using it to protect your clerics or anything else at a boss is abusing it as well as stopping other players from killing a boss... no if's and's or but's about it..

[Thunderja]

Example. A couple of months ago I could only use 12 crits at a Drow Archmage. A friend of mine would log on a paci and GP my clerics so they can't be hit causing me to be able to stay alive better. Now a paci helping someone stay alive is abusing it? I think there goes and if and a but.

[Thunderja]

I'll add more.....

So you didn't get to kill a boss, whip-de-doo. Everytime I am on a kill to pass square with traps on it, and a paci drags drow rogues onto me. I loose a total of 50 mil+ experience off my grandmaster party. Excuse me for thinking complaining about changing that aspect of a pacifist is just nit-picking. It fails in comparrison to the real problems and yet, GP can be used to help other players. How can dragging and setting off traps help players?

I'm not being a hypocrite, I also wave the cheap paci death flag well. Just get off GP's case there are worse problems.

[deadman]

every class can drag monsters so stop trying to nit pick... you know that GP is a problem, but since you abuse it you are defending it to the high hills..

Edited by deadman, 27 April 2006 - 10:20 AM.

[Thunderja]

I can asure you, your little Hedge Lord friend wouldn't be me. I have other ways I'd stop you from getting to kill it sunshine.

Now, a suggestion was made on forums that I don't agree with. I put my point of view or views forward and people are getting upset? Get over it, and stop making outrageous claims.

every class can drag monsters so stop trying to nit pick

Yes every class can run past kill-to-pass monsters using GP on themselves until finally reaching their target and not being able to be killed by them. That was weak mate. Your little problem is far down the list of many others. Maybe at least be a little open minded and see that. I myself will be open to changing GP, if anybody can come up with a GOOD suggestion. But seriously, it's nothing.

I'm off to bed, I'll read your "Do things my way or else" reply tomorrow, and hope in vein that you will see where I or Lew who has also said the same are coming from.

[Exodia]

i juss wanna kno why all of a sudden its a problem to certain ppl again... posts and posts were made about greater pact at bosses and nothing was done, so why all of a sudden should something be done, i lost countless drops to the simple fact of bein greater pact at the boss.. so suck it up and take ur losses, cuz in the end, its only a game

Or has anyone had someone greater pacting someone's crits so that they can not get a kill on a boss or kill it till someone else gets there first.. to steal kill..?

Greater Pact is fixable.. Justice Zone is not.. Greater Pact should be self cast only.. using it to protect your clerics or anything else at a boss is abusing it as well as stopping other players from killing a boss... no if's and's or but's about it..

also, tony stop tryin to be john wayne, ITS A GAME

[Crane]

Ah; I've had enough of this; JLH has said that for now it won't change. Locked.