42 replies to this topic

[«¤ºxXl3úÐXxº¤»]

Yes zerks could very well use a vamp weapon, now had you read what i said it wouldn't seem all that bad.

The idea is you make it w/ a combined base damage, and vamp rate, that it can sufficiently stay alive, in some decent areas. At the same so you don't cut out the cleric, make it so you can get far better exp, with a cleric, or using a regular weapon.

[Äññöÿäñcë]

no, zerks couldnt use a vamp weapon.

if they got said weapon, it'd be easier for them to get to higher levels - and zerks dominated at lvl 30, they're even better at level 36+

the whole point of the 1a server is to communicate and help each other out. if you ask for a vamp weapon on every crit this defeats the object of this..

[Raylen]

zerks really badly need assistance though

even like 17bd and 0.1 vamp would be nice

[Äññöÿäñcë]

hmm, maybe if it was rare. or quite expensive.


but zerks are the most powerful class when a high level -- if you add a rune blade equivalent with less vamp to 1a for a reasonable price, everyone and their dog will get a zerk and train it. this doesnt equal anything out, as druids and mages still need to stay near a pub for refreshes, and all the other problems with the classes listed above.

nm is hard.

[Raylen]

Yeah, I guess you're right.

[Walt]

I have seen getting pked mentioned a few times here. And yes, those who can not covert, morph, or invis, are sticking out like sore thumbs. People fail to mention that al of these thieve with thier DotW tend to fail quit a bit when training between levels 25-30. So if a person is willing to search, they can and do get found.

If you do not want to get pked, and you do not want to spend your hard earned gold, the arenas are there, and do give exp out. Granted, you wil not make the gold you wil make training in the outer realm, but you won't get pked either and loose any hard earned exp or gold you get from the arenas. Rh arenas are the best, and have the fountain there for a free refresh so no gold wasted in the pub.

The DotW has been out for such a long time, but since only 1 alt can be used at a time, and only a handful of players actually trained a thief to its potential before the rest of the game caught on, people complain. No one complained on main for all of these years because you could run around with 20 alts in one shot.

When the mage was ruling the perverbial roost on the 1alt server, all of the high powered mage owners would say, "you don't like it, roll a mage and train one up." Well, a few people decided to not ake that advice and train a different class. We are now here discussing how unfair it is so it seems.

Now if you say "we can not make any good gold training in the arenas, I say this, "Get yourself a thief, level it up to where you can use a DotW, train it and make some gold, then train what will be your main character in the arenas." It may take you a bit more time, but before you know it, your main character will be arch, and you should have yorself a 6 stamina thief that can make you pretty decent gold.

As far as Zerks go, they are by far the strongest clas on this game(main or 1a), and it should take you some time to arch it, and quit frankly, be a bit more chalenging to do so. If you need proof how powerfull they are, as Hollow(Nick), Godzilla(Scott) for a demonstration of their strength. It is absolutle disgusting how hard they hit, and rightfully so I may add. And if they hit for their full potential, even unspelled, they can damn near cripple any charcter going PvP.

You want easy, search E-Bay and buy yourself an Atari 2600. You don't want to get pked, play the main server. You want to make decent gold away from town, get yourself a thief. Or you could try to change up your training techniques very often and not camp the same gd area every day you play, every time you log on.(Alot of people do this)

[«¤ºxXl3úÐXxº¤»]

There is a diffrence though.

-MAGES-
*Constantly Need Mana
*They Can Hide Away... It kills your mana
*Limited training radius due to always needing mana, and having to atleast break even to get money for mana, and pots.

-THIEFS-
*No Mana
*Only Food & Water (which last a long time) & maybe a few pots
*Nearly 100% take home
*Can Covert and Click Stay covert no problem
*Self Healing
*Can train virtualy anywhere from level 25 on

Then there is the simple little fact that a lvl 33-34 mage(dunno but prolly 35) can easily be one clicked by a thief with all the best equips and the 2.5* aop bonus.

For you to say it's the same thing is absolutly absured, there is a clear advantage over the other classes. Especially the in the point you choose to make with the mages.

[Gaddy]

...the exact same thing was said about mages.
"Mages can invis, pk, cast AoP, etc, etc, etc"---it's SOOOO unfair.

Those are not facts about thieves. A level 30 thief alone cannot stick around in Malok's guild even.
So no, you can't just train anywhere after level 25.


And the real power of thieves comes from the fact that there are quite a few of them in-game now, and these thieves work together to get things done.
Maybe that's the lesson people should take from what's going on, more than what class to use or how to use it. Get a group together and go take care of business.

[Äññöÿäñcë]

...the exact same thing was said about mages.
"Mages can invis, pk, cast AoP, etc, etc, etc"---it's SOOOO unfair.

I just remembered about a point you / someone else made on the first page of this thread, mages can "hit hit hit invis" for training purposes, but can you even imagine the amount of mana this would use? Espiecially with invis being raised at the start of 1a. This also means they have to base themselves around a city with a pub (preferable) or a mana shop (much more expensive), meaning they are quite easy to find for pkers.

No, it wasn't until players reminded me that invis and camo have double costs that I remembered how much mana it would use. It would not be possible without a pub.
However, high level mages can find places where AoP blocks almost all monster damage---they just are not ideal training grounds, but neither are places where you can click monsters.
-Stadius

Those are not facts about thieves. A level 30 thief alone cannot stick around in Malok's guild even.
So no, you can't just train anywhere after level 25.

A level 30 thief with DoTW and the average equipment can train in Malok's guild for days just by using a vampiric weapon and food.

Other places where they can train alone have already been mentioned.
Eg,
-Pyramid of the 3rd Moon (scarabs, bottom floor - good exp and quite a vast area so not a massive chance of pkers)
-Tax Lord (10k gold, and decent xp. Doesn't look too bad to me)
-Vampire Bats/Spiders (Sit covert, and click)

Theres three to name but a few..

Malok's Guild-
False. A level 30 thief cannot simply sit and hit in Malok's Guild.
I've worked with Kia and Reaper. DotWs is not good enough to sit and hit on Master Thieves without potions or some kind of major trick. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't check.
If you need to check, ask Devotchka. She has been on when I've gotten on and checked a few things over the past week.

Pyramid-
The xpd on Scarabs has been lowered. I'm not a fan of lowering it further.
Druids use this area quite a bit as well. I do not see a problem with training in the place.

Tax Lord-
I will look into lowering his gold to a level reasonable for 1-alt.
Quite a few things like this are still on the 1-alt system that were designed for Main only. Please continue to point them out.

Vampire Bats/Spiders-
Low xpd, though Sentry Spider xpd may need to be lowered a bit.
Other high levels could easily seek thieves out and PK them in the Orc Caves or Illum. Tunnels. I don't see people up in Frostborn much though.

-Stadius

[Gaddy]

Sorry, but other players still need to work up to the high levels and work with their characters.

It seems like every player with a high level character likes the benefits of the specific class. And if players would work together to trade off clericing for bosses and training or the sort, thieves being able to train without clerics would not be such a big issue.
I still think clerics need to gain better experience from healing players.


Griping about thieves doesn't change the fact that other classes have been able to get to level 33+ when players worked hard enough. Some people are playing 1-alt harder and getting to high level, and it is not just thieves.
The more arguing over this topic I see, the more it seems that the real case here is heresay and jealousy. I'm not going to punish an entire class just because some players think they have it easy. That's just a comfort blanket for people who have not gotten their own characters trained as much.

Should Torches, Machetes, Dwarven Pickaxes, etc, etc, be damphered if the Dagger of the Winds is messed with?
Yes, because these are the real best training tools. DotWs is just like a mini-vampire blood potion to go with them. And this is very difficult to work with...
These 'easy' training items are not mentioned though---why? I think because players only want things that they themselves are not abusing to be issues or 'problems' with the game.

Anyway, I've been looking into DotWs, like I said I would.
This wasn't a, "Hey, I'll get this changed in a few hours." type of issue. Please stop treating it like the case has been ignored. It simply takes time to understand what exactly is being done and if/how to dampher it.

[Nerutically]

Sorry, but other players still need to work up to the high levels and work with their characters.

It seems like every player with a high level character likes the benefits of the specific class. And if players would work together to trade off clericing for bosses and training or the sort, thieves being able to train without clerics would not be such a big issue.I still think clerics need to gain better experience from healing players.


Griping about thieves doesn't change the fact that other classes have been able to get to level 33+ when players worked hard enough. Some people are playing 1-alt harder and getting to high level, and it is not just thieves.
The more arguing over this topic I see, the more it seems that the real case here is heresay and jealousy. I'm not going to punish an entire class just because some players think they have it easy. That's just a comfort blanket for people who have not gotten their own characters trained as much.

Should Torches, Machetes, Dwarven Pickaxes, etc, etc, be damphered if the Dagger of the Winds is messed with?[/b]
Yes, because these are the real best training tools. DotWs is just like a mini-vampire blood potion to go with them. And this is very difficult to work with...
These 'easy' training items are not mentioned though---why? I think because players only want things that they themselves are not abusing to be issues or 'problems' with the game.

[b]Anyway, I've been looking into DotWs, like I said I would.
This wasn't a, "Hey, I'll get this changed in a few hours." type of issue. Please stop treating it like the case has been ignored. It simply takes time to understand what exactly is being done and if/how to dampher it.

Bolds.

#1 - IF players would trade off clericing.. As Angelus said what is the point of clerics and why would someone make and train one up if there is no need for it? As a cleric you miss out on the pking part of the game.. Why would someone train a cleric if you can just train a thief that can heal itself. pk. kill bosses and make gold so much easier?

#2 - Thieves don't have it easy? Are you really that blind? Thats why 1/2 of the lvl 31+'s are thieves... But it can't be because its easy to train them or the advantage they get when they are 31+... If it was as easy to train a diffrent class people would do it but its not so you can't say that its just because those players have worked harder that is bull.. Corey as an example arched a thief in 3 days game time.. Name another class you could do that on..

#3 - Torches etc... These are MULTI class based items almost any class can use these to train with unlike the dagger of the winds witch is why no one complains about these..

As I've said in number 2 you can play the hole "They've worked harder" card all you want.. Everyone knows a thief is far more easier to train then any other class as of right now.. I've posted in this thread the reasons why.. If you want to be blind to those facts so be it.

Sure a level 35 fighter might straigh own a lvl 35 thief who knows but it takes 2x as long to get the fighter there and it cost 2x as much so whats the effing point?

Broc had the right Idea easy train a thief to 35 make mass gold and sell it off and buy a cobalt.. Now he can train pretty much anything he wants with ease where ever he wants. Manda has been stocking gold sense time began and its well deserved, he'll shes even made enough gold to buy a cobalt level 2 thiefs to level 36 almost completly deck them out and still have enough to keep her score at 10k..

The old 2 top player's werent thieves and they did work harder then anyone else and thats why they were the top 2. Memphis/Freek.. When they were around people trained druids/mages but when they left they soon figured out that thieves had it easy and we'll own those 2 classes at the same level. So people stopped training those and got on the thief train.. Even Corey before he left trained one up for that fact and Achilles also bought or trained up a thief because of its advantage...

[Gaddy]

Posting a bunch of the same topics and points that other players have made doesn't drive it home any better. I read fine the first time.

I've said multiple times that I am looking into the problem.
I don't follow why people are still griping at me or arguing that I don't see any of the problems.
What I have said is that posting a bunch excuses and arguing with me just makes all of your complaints boring and annoying. Especially since they all look like alternative ways of saying, "But look what they have, I want that or I want them not to have it! Easy, easy, easy."

Dagger of the Winds-
I've looked into the Dagger of the Winds a bit. It's impossible to get the full experience of it without training a thief to level 36 from 25 and testing other weapons/equipment, and then testing other classes. However, I feel that I've arrived at what seems to be the larger problem, which the high vampirc stat allowing boss runs to be easier.
For training, even a low vamp stat will allow constant training in places that you generally click the monsters. I think that is why the high level thieves don't bother asking DotW to remain the same, they don't need vamp to sit and train, and many of them got tired of that method of training long ago. Anyway, I've suggested it be altered to try to lessen it's power in boss runs.
It is under post titled Dagger of the Winds. If you would like that to be looked into, contact your game staff and ask them to look into it further.


The larger problem-
Since the monster spawn system was changed, thieves can sit on a single grid hitting the spawn without moving, etc. This seems to be a problem, and it makes training take no attention whatsoever. I've suggested that the spawn system and monsters tracking be altered.
If you want that, ask JLH and Wes to look into my post about it in the Information Center.


Further, you should all start asking that Cobalt Staff of the Winds and alternates be adjusted and worked out to balance them out now, before several are in game. These will completely unbalance the server, and the ones benefitting the most will be those who are the strongest already.




"stfu nub i dun haev anything to do with 1a"
I'm done here.

[Äññöÿäñcë]

^lol at speedy


aight guys, problems been addressed and its been said it'll look into, so i'm gonna lock this post - cheers for everyone that discussed the matter as it is now going to be looked into