40 replies to this topic

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

Ok, first off this is ryan, not jono… As for the comments gaddy and rob have made, they are totally beside the point… hitting and invising with 5stam+1 for vis will work..but in order to kill them you have to use another round of beam, and probably still wont kill… thus getting clicked.. And that’s even if u get the second round off, or for that matter get invis after the first round… and as for going pking with 4 chars that’s insanely unfair to the class… along with absorb bracelets and the raise of min assassinate… and jonos post pretty much sums up my exact thoughts… dotw makes it nearly impossible to wait for low hp… and whats low for a thief with 400-420hp?..when u can hit around 360 with perfect round… besides the test I did with jono I did a test with freedom.. Lvl 32... Took 6 rounds b4 I rounded it… and that’s at 32..once at 35 it will be in an army of 35 thieves against the once in a while 6stam mage… everyone knows the reasons for this, being dotw, cost of mana, and overall easier to train a thief… thus mages should if anything be slightly stronger than thieves... not easily be ownd by them... lastly, rob, you havnt played in quiet some time… you don’t really get how overpowered thieves are…

[PureMourning]

Kudos for you two for providing hard evidence to support your reasoning. Now that you've explained in more detail let me try to explain better what I was saying. I both agree and disagree:

Agree: You have clearly proved that a thief can easily kill a mage a lot quicker, even when the thief is a couple levels lower. I know that I haven't played to see the leading thieves level between 33-35 and I have't first-handedly experienced battling with them but I definitely anticipated this. When I level 31 (still am, have been forever) I remember competing against Cody's dwarf thief quite often (Nepharious - at the time best dwarven thief). More times than not he had clicked me, even when he was lower level than me. So undoubtfully I knew that this would always be the case.

I also agree that overall Thieves are more dominant. They have the massive assassinates, the DotW to assist them greatly, ect. This has been argued all over the boards in the past.

Disagree: Now let me just reiterate what I was simply saying before (also related to what Gaddy was saying). I believe we were both targeting what counter-measures could be taken in defense on the Mage. In my opinion, Thieves are powerful bandits and outlaws who lurk the shadows and are the quite capable loner. I think their natural character by nature should allow them to have the 'upperhand' during 1 on 1 combat. This would completely justify them easily defeating another class if caught one on one.

Mages are obviously an offensive magic using class that have the most powerful damage spells. They also have a "stealthy" type of spell/ability that allows them to hide from others. However, a Mage's invisibility obviously mechanically differs from a Thief's covert ability and I also think they should be considered and used differently.

Covert: Assassinate a mob, remain hidden. Can only cast on self.
Invisibiltiy: Remain hidden longer, can cast on whole -party-.

The blunt comparison goes back to Gaddy's and I's original tactic we stated, which you two both ignored by continuing to outline the whole unfairness in terms of one on one combat. It you get a party of 3-4 together with a mage you can destroy anyone. Whereas a thief is just a second body with less surprise.

You both adressed and said "you won't have enough time to re-invis before you get clicked". How do you figure this? While in a small mage party PKing you obviously see who you're going to attack first when you spot the enemy, then you macro them. You pop out, hit, more than likely kill the person (or atleast one person if you're targeting a group) then you the mage can re-invis. This all happens instantaneously and the only way they will have a chance of clicking you next round is if they hurry up and macro your name, then hold it just in time all before you get your second round off, in which case you'll be already holding macro too. Most people won't have time to react to this suprise attack.

Also, once you beam, invis, you don't have to automatically wait for second round and beam again, depending on where you're PKing you could perform other tactics.

[Walt]

Hmmmm. Hmmmm.

So, I am to belive that a level 35 thief, one who has hit mobs upward to 650 or even "clicking" Drows without spells(using class bonuses and weapon table of course) should not be able to assassinate a character with mid 300 hp?
I am a dwarf thief. I have 21 strength. With mod epuiped items I have 20 dex. I should be able to hit more often and harder then any other class out there. A level 35 dwarf should be able to dominate any other level the same as he, with the exception of berserkers.

When the tables were turned, and the mages ruled nightmist, you did not see me complain one time that "Oh my god, I was rounded by the all ever powerful mage. It is totally unfiar and biased." What I did was pick my spots and pk, all the while training up my thief to the level and possition it is now.

You keep saying "minimal assassinate" was tweeked, but, when I "click" Achilles, I am always on full stam. So are you trying to say because the minimum assassinate was tweaked, I am only hitting for minimal now, and I hit harder? Or, could I be hitting for my levels maximum, therefore pking your mage a good portion of the time when it does decide to hit?

P.S.
Hi Rob.

Edited by Walt, 13 May 2008 - 03:46 PM.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

Csl.... yeah ryan ill give it an hour before they cry to staff on that one

[deadman]

All I have to say is grow up what in the nuts is this... You can't really win an argued fight here about if something is balanced or not so you resort to childish immature name calling? We aren't back to our preteen years guys.. grow up and act mature.. step up and do something about it not sit here and name call like little kids.

[Walt]

first off, before the tables where turned you were kissing jonos ass, secondly u click him everytime not just sometimes, and i have i have 1 crit, a lvl 33 thief, and i think its rediculous to be able to click something everytime... you dont want a change to occur because your entire clan is made up of these "beasts"... and this has nothing to do with 1v1 rob... u try to train puremourning when u come back and ull get ownd in a matter of seconds,.. <my thief and jonos theif could do the trick.. im just saying that they are overpowered because, well, they are....

I'd like you to refresh my memory of when i kissed Jono's ass. Why, because we agreed not to pk each other? I remember when Solstice gave me control of the clan and Jono pked some of my clannies and I pked him, his clan(DA) went on ally soon after.

And since we are bringing up ppl kissing Jono's ass, isn't it funny, that Jono, the one who always had personal allies with enemy clans, and always in the biggest clan, you know, the person who had it easiest to train without fear of getting pked, yes that Jono, is the one who is pitching the biggest fit about anything being overpowered? I see someone gets a bit of exp taken away from him from a few pks all of a sudden cries to staff about what is unfair.

Csl.... yeah ryan ill give it an hour before they cry to staff on that one

Yes Jono, you were laughing all the way up to and including the time you were removed from Pande. To quote Shawn Michaels, "I've lost my smile." Did you loose your smile Jono?

[Consumed]

speaking of growing up, did you seriously just quote shawn michaels?... and /t tony i didnt call anyone any names? ... i said he kissed jono's ass, because jono being lvl 33 and him being under 30 he would have gotten owned. Now that its the otherway around walt seems to think he is superior to all. and back to growing up, look at the top members in your clan tony... ... and to quote such a mature industy, professional wrestling, suck it tony....

and as for the rest of your post walt, trying to defend the fact that thieves are overpowered, i could care less what equipment you have. i have dex mod's too, as does jono, and i dont care what you have to say, my opinion about the matter will not change... the fact of the matter is that i know how the game works, and i dont see this changing... considering all staff has thieves now, i dont see them being nerfed like they should be... mages were, and thieves were made better, it would have been more fair if neither of these changes had not been made...

[Sausage]

You just need to get over it and stop whining.

Professional Wrestling is the sport of kings.

[Walt]

Well, first of all, I didn't have this crit when it was under 30, I bought it when it was level 31 almost ready for level 32. So good game there on that one with him owning me with his level 33 n my under level 30 character.

Secondly, I've never kissed his ass as you have stated. What I said was, Jono had it easiest out of any player on nightmist. Jim being in MD, with several personal allies who were in BoD/Pande who wouldn't hit him, even if they pked a fellow clanny. So Jono got comfortable with the fact he could train in HM or desert anytime he wanted too. Now that there are no more personal allies, he faces what every other nightmistian player faces, being pked. I wouldn't like being pked if I had full use of the realm with no repercussions.

Another thing, I have no idea how you and others think I act "superior to all". I am an average player with a pretty decent character to run around on. I guess because I pk I act like I am better then everyone? If you would like me to act that way, I could continue to verbaly put you in your place with my "superior inteligence" .

And finally, yes, I did quote Shawn Michaels. I even said it in my post above. "To quote Shawn Michaels". But, it fit what I was getting at, although you seemed to have grasped that notion.

P.S.
Thieves minimal assassinate was raised, but even if it wasn't, I know for a fact that my maximum assassinate, which was not tweaked or touched at all by staff would still easily get the job done.

Edited by Walt, 14 May 2008 - 03:08 AM.

[Devotchka]

Now that its the otherway around walt seems to think he is superior to all.

News to me, being I am the superior one. ::giggles::

and back to growing up, look at the top members in your clan tony...

What about us? We are all mature in wisdom and age.

[Gaddy]

Well, I won't be un-locking accounts that I ban so lightly anymore.

This topic is being closed.
1. The guild discussed has been put in place. The next ones needed are on the way, and if discussion for druids or another class is needed, those players may start a 35+ for druids post, etc.

2. This has gone ridiculously off topic, and I am not going to bother deleting posts---which is annoying and takes time with a slow internet connection.

3. People don't listen.