73 replies to this topic

[Abstract]

A number of problems have occured within 1alt. Ill list them more sensibly.

Dotw is extremely over powered.
Playing is becoming very repetitive for people, hitting the same monsters over and over.
The only class, thats practical to level without a cobalt staff of the winds, is a thief.
With the playerbase diminishing, it is making it extremely difficult for people to achieve certain things (Leveling, etc).
The 35+ leveling system requires too much gold.

Yes alot of things, when the server was released.. should have been thought about and altered before hand. But it wasnt, and we have to deal with it how we can.

Increasing the Alt limit, allows players to vary what classes they use, and where they train much more than they can now. This creates a "Richer" gaming enviroment. It also reduces (but doesnt negate) how incredibly over powered thieves are, without actually making the class worse by reducing damage, removing skills etc.

I believe that by increasing the alt limit, to two or three, would allow for a much more versatile playing style. It would also allow us to draw a line, and start developing further, much more advanced and difficult area's.

In all, i realise the main purpous of this server is to force cooperation. But with an alt limit of two or three, you would still be required to cooperate.


And yes, alot of people have put in alot of work on individual alts, and alot of gold has gone into it. My opinion is that, we understand leveling is a problem. But it is there to keep gold out of the game, and this wont ever change. By increasing the alt limit to 2 or three, it wont change anything. But you will find it easier to make gold to level that one character you really care about, and then work on the rest. This way you wont sit there for hours and days purely making gold in the same spot, just to level your character.

- Jason.

[Freek]

Again, when I make posting asking questions about your reasoning I am not doing this because I am against the idea. I just want to be able to understand so don't take these post the wrong way.

Dotw is extremely over powered. - True. By making it to where any class can train with a cleric will make it to where thieves lose the dotw aspect. I can see this. However, I don't see why the item cannot just be deleted. (Don't have to answer that)

Playing is becoming very repetitive for people, hitting the same monsters over and over. - All grind games become repetitive. Been playing the same game for almost 9 years now. It happens. I don't see how changing it to an alt server will change the fact that the way you level is by killing the same stuff everyday.

The only class, thats practical to level without a cobalt staff of the winds, is a thief. - Do not agree. Thieves are by far the laziest and easiest class to train yes, but its just because people want to take the lazy way out. No matter what happens most people will take the easy way out.

With the playerbase diminishing, it is making it extremely difficult for people to achieve certain things (Leveling, etc) - You've said yourself that we have a new system for pre 35. This system can be achieved solo very easily, just time consuming. As for 36+, You will still need tokens I can almost see the issue here. But token bosses are still downed. Not to mention the "unfairness" issue. Therefore besides golding I don't see how making it an alt system will make it better.

The 35+ leveling system requires too much gold. - See above. The reason behind this was to keep gold out of the game. If you make it a 2alt so that its easier to level then you would also have to double the cost or the point behind making it cost so much would be void. Would it not? Purpose - Keep gold to a minimum. 2alt - make it easier to horde gold. Don't see the logic.

Increasing the Alt limit, allows players to vary what classes they use, and where they train much more than they can now. This creates a "Richer" gaming enviroment. It also reduces (but doesnt negate) how incredibly over powered thieves are, without actually making the class worse by reducing damage, removing skills etc.

^ - I completely disagree... If anything it will make the server play an even lesser amount of classes because there are those classes that excel with a cleric and in a party over those 1alt power house classes. Its only logical to think that everyone will have a cleric in there party leading to a Cleric + Some sort of hitter. Probably one that can use all the stam in one click, leading to 3 classes..

I believe that by increasing the alt limit, to two or three, would allow for a much more versatile playing style. It would also allow us to draw a line, and start developing further, much more advanced and difficult area's.

^ - Again I think increasing the limit will make it less versatile.. Classes like Mages/Druids/Fighters/Pallys will now be even more rare then they are now.

But you will find it easier to make gold to level that one character you really care about, and then work on the rest. This way you wont sit there for hours and days purely making gold in the same spot, just to level your character.

^ - Again, the point of it costing so much was to keep gold out of the game. Whats the point of making it an alt server so that you can make alot of gold if the point was to keep people form gold whoring..


Good post. But I want alot more detail and explanations. ( I assume so does the rest of the 1a player base )

Edited by Freek, 05 November 2010 - 03:58 PM.

[brewcrew]

i leveled a druid easily from 1 to 34 without a cobalt.

[Freek]

Also, my post are not just for Jase. They are for anyone who supports the alt change. If you support the change please explain why.

[Pureza]

Changing it to an alts server. lol

Really though, would making it a 2 alt server really affect the 35+ leveling system?
You say it would make golding easier and negate the difficulty of the cost leveling past 35. Yes, it would make golding easier. But you would also be golding to level two crits past 35 at one time, instead of the 1 everyone is used to.
Do what you guys will with the server. It won't affect me one way or the other.

[Freek]

Changing it to an alts server. lol

Really though, would making it a 2 alt server really affect the 35+ leveling system?
You say it would make golding easier and negate the difficulty of the cost leveling past 35. Yes, it would make golding easier. But you would also be golding to level two crits past 35 at one time, instead of the 1 everyone is used to.
Do what you guys will with the server. It won't affect me one way or the other.

Not really since you wouldn't pay to level your cleric.

[Pureza]

Changing it to an alts server. lol

Really though, would making it a 2 alt server really affect the 35+ leveling system?
You say it would make golding easier and negate the difficulty of the cost leveling past 35. Yes, it would make golding easier. But you would also be golding to level two crits past 35 at one time, instead of the 1 everyone is used to.
Do what you guys will with the server. It won't affect me one way or the other.

Not really since you wouldn't pay to level your cleric.

So you're saying, that once the cleric hits 35, you're gonna stop leveling it?

[Freek]

Changing it to an alts server. lol

Really though, would making it a 2 alt server really affect the 35+ leveling system?
You say it would make golding easier and negate the difficulty of the cost leveling past 35. Yes, it would make golding easier. But you would also be golding to level two crits past 35 at one time, instead of the 1 everyone is used to.
Do what you guys will with the server. It won't affect me one way or the other.

Not really since you wouldn't pay to level your cleric.

So you're saying, that once the cleric hits 35, you're gonna stop leveling it?

Exactly. Hell I probably wouldn't level it past 30 unless I capped it.

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On a side note, I think 2a is sounding alot more balanced than 1a (with the current server the way it is). However, this does not mean the 1a server couldn't just be balanced better. Not to mention that the server has been 1a for as long as it has.

Edited by Freek, 05 November 2010 - 05:08 PM.

[HazzA]

On a side note, I think 2a is sounding alot more balanced than 1a (with the current server the way it is). However, this does not mean the 1a server couldn't just be balanced better. Not to mention that the server has been 1a for as long as it has.

Oh so true.. the majority of people on 1alt have 2 characters of a high level which they alternate between.. so wouldnt be all that bad i dont think.

[Crane]

If it becomes 2-alt or 3-alt, there is an added risk that at least one class will become even less used than what they are already, namely Paladins. They are very self-sufficient, but suffer from the problem of not dealing much damage. If you can just venture around the realm with, say, a Druid or Ranger backed up by a Cleric, what will happen to the Paladin? Conversely, Berserkers would see an increased use with a back-up healer.

Due to the problem with the Dagger of the Winds, there's a chance that some players will use pure Thief parties with the weapons. Such groups would be a nightmare to take on PvP.

One scenario I can envision is if every player takes a Cleric in their team to High Priestess Ku'Nal or the Drow Blade Mage - with a 1:1 or 2:1 ratio of hitters to healers, most of the bosses will become a pushover. Saying that, in the old days of multi-alt I'm not sure if this was a problem or not.

Personally I'm not overly supportive of it.

[Sausage]

I'd just run around with 3 seven stam dotw and solo the world. ezzzzzpk

This is silly.

Not supported.

[Freek]

I'd just run around with 3 seven stam dotw and solo the world. ezzzzzpk

This is silly.

Not supported.

Think we've decided that 3alt would be game breaking.

[Gnarkill]

If someone doesn't like playing 1 character on a 1a server..there is always main to go to. I feel like this is unnessecary as we have not saw a major influx of players to main showing us that people would rather play more than 1 alt at a time..the 1a server is still busier(user wise) then main on any given day. It just seems like another "quick fix" idea that will cause the game to slide further downhill.

oh and to "improve the game" if people want to use multi alts.. then close down 1a instead of making it an alt server. then move our 1a staff to multi and you would have all of the playerbase/staff making one server successful instead of two half arsed ones. you can still choose to use anything from 1 alt to 20 on multi.

Edited by Gnarkill, 05 November 2010 - 06:56 PM.

[Dangerous]

but but 1alt is boring

[Sneaky]

If someone doesn't like playing 1 character on a 1a server..there is always main to go to. I feel like this is unnessecary as we have not saw a major influx of players to main showing us that people would rather play more than 1 alt at a time..the 1a server is still busier(user wise) then main on any given day. It just seems like another "quick fix" idea that will cause the game to slide further downhill.

oh and to "improve the game" if people want to use multi alts.. then close down 1a instead of making it an alt server. then move our 1a staff to multi and you would have all of the playerbase/staff making one server successful instead of two half arsed ones. you can still choose to use anything from 1 alt to 20 on multi.

my sentiments exactly. if you want to play on more than one alt, I believe there already is an entire server dedicated to that -- It's not "nightmist 1alt" and "nightmist 20-alt", its nightmist one alt and nightmist multi alt. If someone wants to use three characters at a time, thats what the other server is for.

I'd think it would be much smarter to adjust the difficulty of areas before increasing the alt limit, but hey, I don't play 1a, so what do I know.

[tehbirr]

lol@main ppl posting that dont ever even log on 1alt

honestly, i think 2 alts would be good for the game, as many ppl stated, for the golding purpose and that purpose only... its not easy makin 2.5, 4.5, 6.5, 8.5 and 10m etc on 1 crit, but i can see where ppl would disagree with this suggestion, most dont have 2 high lvl crits let alone 1, but hey everyone has thier opinion

i just really dont see why all of a sudden this was brought up(probs more then 1 post bout this) but 1alts been around for how many years now? lol...i dno i just play the game, yall run it as u want since thats how this games always been run anyways, the playerbase's voice is never listened to, just ignored

[Dangerous]

I voted for 3alt for selfish reasons but 1alt is boring lets face it, so any suggestion to make it slightly better i'll agree with. I just don't see the point in being lvl 40 and kiling hedge lord on a regular basis, i think its time for some change hopefully for the best, i think this should be given a trial period b4 everybody goes all skitzo on the subject, thats all i gotta say.

And on a side note for any main players that post, this won't be like main becuz even if it was 2 or 3 alt it would still require co-op which is the purpose of "1alt".

Edited by Dangerous, 06 November 2010 - 07:48 AM.

[Tietsu]

I look at it as, "The game would be more fun" with an addition of ALTs. It's fresh, it's new. And you could temporarily give the server a chance to test and try it out for a couple weeks or even a month. Staff already explained too many times in the past that asking the playerbase for opinions is only bias. It's not a legit survey. Not really much staff to take a proper survey either. Try it before you buy it, I guess would be the point I'd like to get across. Within that testing period, we would see first hand what the major problems are, because at the moment, it's apparent not one of us know the true positives or negatives to a change, right now it's only speculation.

Although I would support a reform of the server (and a full reset), this allows staff to balance the server without people losing what you have now. ANY change that is made is ALWAYS going to be unfair to someone. If you balance it or change the ALT limit in any way, it's going to benefit someone and denounce the rest.




Edit: Not saying a month is enough time to reveal every problem, but it's a pretty good ground to start making solutions or suggestions.

Edited by Tietsu, 06 November 2010 - 12:13 PM.

[Prophet]

Making it 3 alts mean I might actually play it.

What does this tell you? You've changed the game concept completely so its up to you whether you're comfortable with this.

[Cadabra]

I look at it as, "The game would be more fun" with an addition of ALTs. It's fresh, it's new. And you could temporarily give the server a chance to test and try it out for a couple weeks or even a month. Staff already explained too many times in the past that asking the playerbase for opinions is only bias. It's not a legit survey. Not really much staff to take a proper survey either. Try it before you buy it, I guess would be the point I'd like to get across. Within that testing period, we would see first hand what the major problems are, because at the moment, it's apparent not one of us know the true positives or negatives to a change, right now it's only speculation.

Although I would support a reform of the server (and a full reset), this allows staff to balance the server without people losing what you have now. ANY change that is made is ALWAYS going to be unfair to someone. If you balance it or change the ALT limit in any way, it's going to benefit someone and denounce the rest.




Edit: Not saying a month is enough time to reveal every problem, but it's a pretty good ground to start making solutions or suggestions.

Alec as always hits the nail on the head.


Trial period.



Edit: Prophet, 3 Alts is way too much. Would 2 Alt bring you back?

Ive spoken about this with some people ingame, 2 Alt may bring some people back with it being more intersting.

Edited by Cadabra, 06 November 2010 - 02:47 PM.

[brewcrew]

Alec u only support full reset because your characters suck. Also as to not stray from topic, i would support a 2 alt trial period, it would let us see what issues might arise from the additions.

[Freek]

I'd support a 2a trial period. But I do not support any more then 2a.

[Isolated]

2 alts would enable people to take on tougher areas..

[tehbirr]

i dont agree wit alec's suggestion, what would be the point in changing the server to 2-3 alts if the purpose is to attract ppl to play more... a full reset doesnt benefit anyone as majority of the playerbase if not everyone would just say screw it and not even bother attempting to play anymore, be years of wasted time then, literally wasted.

[Tietsu]

I support a full reset for Jase's above comment. This server was not made for 1A, it was made for several. The only way to completely do things right, is to remake every single little boss and mob and delete what everyone else has so everyone has a fair shot at how things were suppose to be done. I don't play really, I log on to talk nuts occasionally, but I never speculated that it would bring people to play, I say it would bring me back to play again. I have given exceptional suggestions to help balance the server to no aveil. moose it, do somethin', all I gotta say.

[Freek]

Full reset would be way to overkill. Never gonna happen.

[Tietsu]

Unrestrict Natura. The exp isn't great, but Antlers (Not even really OP) will be allowed into the game.
Open up Lush Jungle to level 30's and lower. (Ankhegs will be the only issue, to my knowledge.)
Bring in class restricted areas (such as Valorian Sanctum)
Make all of SDG L2L, like it should be.
Give Mayor a % chance to drop Museum Key with a chance to spawn every 10 minutes. (Kinda fine the way it is though.)

Could go on and on. I'd have tried to do alot of this and more, a long time ago if JLH would hire the right people as staff.

[Exor]

While I haven't played Nightmist since 2004/2005 I'd for sure give the game another spin if it was made to 2-3 alts. I enjoyed playing main so much back when alts weren't massive, and I do feel having two or three alts is a perfect number. I think with the game the way it is now there's not much hope to getting new players to play. Or even old school players like myself who might come back.

The game just won't be on equal footing for a new player who wanted to try out the game. Since some of these guys have been playing nonstop since 2002+ they have a huge lead in the economy and in knowledge of the game. Although the economic lead is not nearly as big in the 1alt server due to it not having been out as long, it's still there though. And there obviously cannot be a reset as this would drive away a lot of the remaining players who have hoarded their crits/items for so long and it'd feel like a waste.

I think if the server were changed to 2 or 3 alt it would be a lot more newbie friendly and would give new players more of a chance of doing things in a game where they know no one at all and are forced to play one character. I also really think changing the 1alt to 2/3 alt would be a huge step in attracting more players as well as players who quit. Another idea for that would be to change the roller up. In this day and age no gamer wants to sit there for hours trying to make a perfect crit. Not when everyones used to instant gratification when it comes to gaming these days. But alas that's a topic for another day.

I'm not sure my thoughts on this really matter since I haven't played Nightmist in so long, but I thought it might give a different perspective as someone who has quit.

[Apocalypto]

Got tired of reading most of this so i didnt lol. But i wouldnt support anything other than 1alt. It would be extremely easy to get 3 cobalts with 3 alts. Then we would have several lvl 40s at a lot quicker of a rate than they are coming and it would just end up being a cluster"moose".

edit: ok, read through all that crap and dont really have a change of opinion. I think changing the game is a rediculous idea. The overpowered classes would just be more easy to train. Rangers/zerkers/clerics game only doesnt sound that fun to me...

Edited by Apocalypto, 15 November 2010 - 04:34 AM.

[Cruxis]

1. Dotw is extremely over powered.
2. Playing is becoming very repetitive for people, hitting the same monsters over and over.
3. The only class, thats practical to level without a cobalt staff of the winds, is a thief.
4. With the playerbase diminishing, it is making it extremely difficult for people to achieve certain things (Leveling, etc).
5. The 35+ leveling system requires too much gold.

1. Lower the BD or lower the vamp, take it out of game, or make some vamp weapons for other classes that are as attainable as DoTW.
2. This will always be true for most online games, the only cure is consistently added content. 1a has alot of content undone, we don't need more, we need to make other content more easily available.
3. Only because of dotw, see point 1.
4. The worst problem imo. The only cure is either more alts, stronger single characters, or weakening of healing bosses. Stronger mana will allow for fewer people on longer trips, now they just need to be able to pwn that ending boss. Aswell, many people who still play are either in their lower or mid 20s, and are starting to log less and less because of life, the game pace is simply to slow to keep them logging for just that hour of free time they have.
5. Simply enough, lower the gold? 1m, 2m, ect instead of double that.

I understand why you offer alts instead of these obvious fixes, many things have been done with the ingame content and changing it would piss off alot of people. If any change made would piss people off and the playerbase always whines regardless, what's the problem?

Aswell, if something is a problem, but changing it would piss off alot of people, wouldn't it piss off more people to let the problem escalate?

Although, 2 alts in my opinion would balance the classes, and more so than 3+.
With 3+, clickers obviously become OP due to speed being a necessity with more alts, and everyone would have a cleric + 2 hitters. Look at main.
With 2 alts, you get one super crit with healing, or 2 regular hitters. It mostly seems to balance out zerks/thieves and makes other classes better since they can be paired with a cleric. The same issues eventually will show as with 1a though, 2 fighters/pallies would be useless, and 2 thieves/zerks would be very strong. A possible fix for that would be you can't log 2 of the same classes.

Personally, I'd like to keep it 1a. Though 2a would fix alot of our problems, I believe staff putting the time in to make the game better for 1 character would be better. Balancing the classes would take JLH, but making the game "completable" is easily in any staff's power, and it'd only take a few hours of dedicated time, if even that.

Actually, balancing the classes wouldn't even take JLH, but would take a staff member hundreds of hours to do. Changing and testing all equipment ingame, raising and lowering max armor and weapon damage on all classes, ect.

As an example, say staff want crits to be able to last longer, and decide crits should have double their hp.
By lowering the BD of weapons, raising monsters PoD, lowering monsters hp (or raising gold), lowering monster damage, and putting negative wisdom mods on healer's armor (or negative chr mods on everything), you effectively give crits double their hp.

Yeah, it'd take 1000x times longer than it'd take JLH to make the change, but it's just an example that "big" changes are possible without him. Just need a creative, logical, analytical, dedicated staff member.