324 replies to this topic

[Lich]

Been saying that for pages to ..lmao.. He is a child who makes up his own religon, makes up his own version of what biology is, and has no idea what the difference when comparing murder to getting rid of unwanted cells, I could do this to but i dont think his sesiiiitive sensabilities could take it.


I would also like to point out that he totally throws out what he cant figure out a way to argue with it. I reposted as he asked..like an idiot but there is no reasoning with a bigot.

[Karri]

I don't think its fair to invade someones right to choose their way of life.
*Mec rolls on the floor laughing at a not-well-though-out mockery of himself* Ok, then murderers should not be put in jail...

I do believe that homosexuality was being refered to, not abortion nor, as you twisted it, murder.

16% of Americans believe abortion should be legal for any reason at any time during pregnancy and 55% of American believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.

Haha, seems I'm not 'outnumbered'. .

Hello? That quote supports the other side, not your's.

55% of Americans believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.

This is what everyone has been screaming about, and you say, and I quote:

Oh, I've been raped, I think I'll kill my baby. . . no. . . I don't think so.

I hope you notice that this is contrary to what your fun little poll says.

according to freud the human psyche has three facets:

*runs away screaming*

For the love of ANYTHING, don't bring Freud into this. I think the only one to be accurately described by Freud's theories was Freud himself.

I would also like to point out that he totally throws out what he cant figure out a way to argue with it. I reposted as he asked..like an idiot but there is no reasoning with a bigot.

I do so hate to dissagree with you, Lich, because you seem so level headed and one of the reason I'm still keeping track of this thread is because you said it was the only one you'd be keeping track of. Mec is only 12, he can't be a bigot yet. What he IS is a 12 year-old who doesn't understand what he's debating.

I think this is all I had to post. But I know that I've spent too much time and have to eat some food now. Time to format it for easy reading.

[Lich]

No to me he stopped being just a 12 year old and became a biggot when he posted and i quote lolok who is argueing against me, gay, a Dislexic and a pagen. He is12 but not an idiot he can be a biggot you can do alot at 12 and 14 i know you can ask maha in the two years from 14 to 16 i was in high school all day and colledge at night with work inbetween because i was kicked out of my parents house, had to pay for it, which i did rather well. I finished bothe Highschool and the emergency medical andfire science program of Maryland state at 16 years old, and at 17 i had joined the army and was shipped off to Iraq. I think he knows perfectly well what he is argueing.

He is a child yes but he is not stupid, I think personally he is just coming here and argueing just for the sake of argueing but hey.

Also i am now back in game...smiles.. Unfortunetly enough people kept after me untill i agreed to come back and play but i will be more of a rper and i will be on a new crit.

Edited by Lich, 09 August 2004 - 01:53 AM.

[Stotic]

Anyway, about age? I would say that a rock's age is something million years old or something. Has a rock been born? No.

A rock isn't a living organism. We aren't debating matter.

[Mec]

Anyway, about age?  I would say that a rock's age is something million years old or something.  Has a rock been born?  No.

A rock isn't a living organism. We aren't debating matter.

It IS a meaning of age though.

Ah, well we'd say an unborn baby is -9/12 years of age .

[Lady_Maha]

An unborn BABY is negative 6 months old... the first trimester it is not a baby, it is a lump of cells. After that it starts to develope into what resembles a human being, and it has a chance of survival after about the 25th week of pregnancy (even if slim), that is why abortions are illegal after the first trimester. Until then it is not considered a baby. Look up definitions on foetus, embryo and baby please, before posting.

What is your next argument? Is surgically removing cancer murder too? After all, living cells are removed from a body...

You show your immaturity all over this forum Mec, the best example is another thread where you suggest that all people with depression do not receive any form of treatment but cope on their own somehow instead or be put in an asylum.

I highly doubt you are worth discussing this issue with any longer. You are barely older than my daughter, and she shows more common sense than you.

[Mec]

I don't think its fair to invade someones right to choose their way of life.
*Mec rolls on the floor laughing at a not-well-though-out mockery of himself* Ok, then murderers should not be put in jail...

I do believe that homosexuality was being refered to, not abortion nor, as you twisted it, murder.

16% of Americans believe abortion should be legal for any reason at any time during pregnancy and 55% of American believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.

Haha, seems I'm not 'outnumbered'. .

Hello? That quote supports the other side, not your's.

55% of Americans believe abortion should be legal only to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest.

This is what everyone has been screaming about, and you say, and I quote:

Oh, I've been raped, I think I'll kill my baby. . . no. . . I don't think so.

I hope you notice that this is contrary to what your fun little poll says.

according to freud the human psyche has three facets:

*runs away screaming*

For the love of ANYTHING, don't bring Freud into this. I think the only one to be accurately described by Freud's theories was Freud himself.

I would also like to point out that he totally throws out what he cant figure out a way to argue with it. I reposted as he asked..like an idiot but there is no reasoning with a bigot.

I do so hate to dissagree with you, Lich, because you seem so level headed and one of the reason I'm still keeping track of this thread is because you said it was the only one you'd be keeping track of. Mec is only 12, he can't be a bigot yet. What he IS is a 12 year-old who doesn't understand what he's debating.

I think this is all I had to post. But I know that I've spent too much time and have to eat some food now. Time to format it for easy reading.

Ok, about the thingy at the top of your post, about me rofling. The original post was (by me) "I don't think it's fair to invade someone's right to life" (or something like that), then someone posted "I don't think it's right to invade someone else's way to live their life"(or something like that) Then I posted the one YOU quoted.


Hmm didn't see the rape part.

Wasn't that post posted before?

And I think you're just a ??? year old who doesn't understand anyhting


I don't get it, I don't think rape is enough reason to kill a baby.

Ooohh the horrid memories, the child to help y. . . those memories would be there anyway. If killing the baby might actually get rid of the problem, then I might understand, but no. If you're raped, you'll remember it for the rest of your life unless you get that one alstheimers(MAJOR SP?) disease or amnesia, no matter what you might to to try and prevent it.


I don't know, but I believe some childbirths (usually of late babies), are very painful. When the mother pays attention to the child, I don't think the memory of that comes to her mind. Yes, I understand it's not as bad as rape, but the pain has already happened, killing the child won't make things better.

Hopefully this post is less 'biggotish' then previous ones.

Oh, and how am I a biggot. Being gay is wrong and harmful to society:

Gay and lesbian teens are two to three times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers and account for up to 30% of all completed suicides among teens; In 1989, suicide was the leading cause of death among gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered youth.
-Gibson, P. "Gay Male and Lesbian Youth Suicide, Report of the Secretary's Task Force on Youth Suicide", U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1989.


In a study of 137 gay and bisexual males, 41 had attempted suicide and 18 young men made multiple attempts. The average age of those attempting was 15.5 years old.
-Remafedi, G., Farrow, J., and Dwisher, R. "Risk Factors for Attempted Suicide in Gay and Bisexual Youth." Pediatrics, 87, 1991.


50% of lesbian and gay youth report parental rejection because of their sexual orientation.
-Remafedi G. "Male Homosexuality: The Adolescent's Perspective." Pediatrics, 79: 326-330, 1987. (this ruins lives)

42% of homeless youth identify as gay or lesbian.


This is all bad for the economy, and gays? They try and try to make it seem like being gay is 'socially acceptable'. It's not, it forces people to commit suicide. If the gays could just be quiet then there'd be fewer suicides. Gays do what they do, it is wrong, and then they try to get MORE people to.


This is a christian who argues homosexuality, and proves it can be done without using the bible. I agree with 95% of what he says.

Read Here

I especially agree with his comment about sex with animals. . . it's pretty much the same thing.

[Teh_Fluff]

I bet 20$'s that your daughter could kick his ass at pretty much anything...any other takers on this?

[Mec]

So, if there was some unpopular someone who nobody likes and no-one would grieve if he died, it would be OK?

I argue simply that you would never find such a person.
Noone is that unpopular... or that unknown.

A brutal murderer who has commited that wrong against others... say s/he gets put to death somewhere where capital punishment is legal. Someone will still grieve for him or her. They may despise what they did, but someone out there will pity them, and be sorry that they died.

Likewise someone completely unknown, perhaps a child who has been abandonned outside a house/police station/hospital... wherever, if they die the person who finds them will be the one to grieve even if they never had someone to love them while they were alive.

Perhaps, if someone had been missing for a long time, (perhaps homeless?) someone might not know they had died, might not know grieving was due... but such a person would likely have been grieving their loss already anyway

I'm absolutely convinced that you could never find a person that would have noone to grieve if they died.

We're all going to eventually die anyway, i'd rather pass on my traits and personality through my children to prolong myself than try to prolong myself through a longer life.

I personally consider it rather selfish to use your children as a way to prolong your own fame. In fact I consider it a horrible reason to have children.
And I sincerely hope you'll give those children enough room to gain their own traits and interests

Moving back, yet again, to abortion:
As Zylia and... well almost everyone on this thread has said, people don't have an abortion for the sake of it. It's not a decision they take lightly and they don't have an abortion because they think its going to be a fun idea... people have abortions because there are instances when they are necessary.

Anyway, you said that the baby is considered part of the mothers body, so is her arm. It's not going to be in the best interest of her 'physical health' to cut off her arm

There are cases I can think of where it would certainly be in her best interests to have her arm amputated.
The fact is that while amputation would be a terrible thing it is sometimes necessary and it isn't murder. You don't "kill" someone's arm if you chop it off...




Oh yes, Shera- thankyou for posting that link to Dieterle's Berdache piece, I found it a very interesting read on a subject I knew next to nothing about
Lich- I may well take you up on that and try and talk to you about it some time ^^ And just being nosey, but what's your book about?

Not FAME!

No, just my personality, anyway, when I'm in heaven I'll be smiling down on my child.

people have abortions because there are instances when they are necessary.

Necessary? This is only when the mother's life is at stake, and ONLY then.

There are cases I can think of where it would certainly be in her best interests to have her arm amputated.

Only when her life is at stake.

I'm absolutely convinced that you could never find a person that would have noone to grieve if they died.

The same with unborn babies. There'd almost always be a sad grandfather who wanted a grandchild, and uncle, or even a husband.

[Mec]

Anyway: I still have ONE question that I BEEEEGGG to be answered in the next post:

What's wrong with murder?

Why are you being so ignorant? I have already answered that question pages ago, you even made, what I suppose you could call a rebuttal if it were a proper debate. So why I ask do you still ask an answered question?

Edit: Sorry I got annoyed and skipped reading the other posts but i'd still like to make my point.

The answer was not sufficient enough, Metatron. All of that could easily apply to abortion too, so I asked for more.

[Lady_Maha]

Mec, you did not read the post right above your last one. Abortion is NOT murder, and in the first trimester it is NOT a baby.

As for all your nice statistics...

Why do you think they DO commit suicide? Because people like YOU don't accept them for who they are. Because you make their lives miserable by denying them certain rights you take for granted. Because due to people like you they have to hide who they really are and live unhappy, some of them married to someone they don't love to cover up their homosexuality (Elton John had the fake marriage for years to hide how he really felt before outing himself and he is much happier now).

The suicide statistics you posted clearly proves one thing, but not that homosexuality is bad. It proves that biased people like you destroy lives. I hope you are happy now.

[Shera]

Gay and lesbian teens are two to three times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers and account for up to 30% of all completed suicides among teens; In 1989, suicide was the leading cause of death among gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered youth.
-Gibson, P. "Gay Male and Lesbian Youth Suicide, Report of the Secretary's Task Force on Youth Suicide", U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1989.

According to this Mec at LEAST 70% of teens that complete suicide are HETEROSEXUAL!

50% of lesbian and gay youth report parental rejection because of their sexual orientation.
-Remafedi G. "Male Homosexuality: The Adolescent's Perspective." Pediatrics, 79: 326-330, 1987. (this ruins lives)

I had a friend attempt suicide after he told his parents he was gay. The reason he tried to commit suicide was his parents disowned him, told him that he was no longer their son and his dad beat him up when he told him. He could have easily kicked his dad's ass but he didnt he just let him beat on him and later that night tried to kill himself. Can you see where I'm going telling you this? Probably not so let me spell it out for you. This is ONE of the reasons that some homosexual teenagers try or do kill themselves. Because their parents/families/friends view them in the same way that you do, as some kind of aboration. Quite frankly I believe in we as a human race were more excepting of peoples race, religion, and sexual orientation we would be a lot better off and would have less people killing themselves. Thank you Mec for trying to perpetuate the cycle of shame that some homosexual people already feel!

I read the article that you linked and frankly that guy is biased. He says he's not but he is. Wow he had a gay friend BFD! While he was friends with the guy he still thought that he was immoral and sounds like, basically going to hell! How hypocritical is that?!?! I say very. Funny how the bible says "judge not lest ye be judged"

Mec I honestly feel sorry for you, just as I feel sorry for anyone that is racist. You are both going to miss out on knowing some pretty awesome people just because you judge them before even knowing them. Ironic how the bible says "judge not lest ye be judged."

[Lich]

ok to answer you mec as to how you are a biggott i will now post the definition.


Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
- big·ot·ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective
- big·ot·ed·ly adverb

You become biggot when you become intolerant to others, and that is what you are. You become intolerant to what the world is telling you as long as your own oppions are set against them weather you are right or not.


Next as for the suiside statistics you posted here is one for you.

Posted in a repost on cnn.com..

The surgeon general made these coments on the suiside rate in the United States,
" 50 to 51% of lesbian and gay youth report parental rejection because of their sexual orientation, As to why they attempted, I believe that if we would all be more excepting of people and how we are it is the only way to bring this rate down."

Mec your way of thinking is what causes this rate, it has nothing to do with what they are but what you do to them that causes this. The gays and lesbians should never be forced to justify themselves to anyone as to how they are. If they were excepted for what they are then they would never have a problem.

Edited by Lich, 09 August 2004 - 09:14 PM.

[afireinside]

Mec i had a friend just like you awhile ago and she did nothing but hate other people, she was my only friend but then i told her that i am gay and she hated me afterword, she turned all my friends against me and ruined most of my social life at school, because of that i almost shot myself in the face. i didnt because i thought to myself that im a better person, i could have been dead right now because of her. its people like you and her that would make anybody not just gay people start to hate themselves.
this is my last post because i dont need your judgement i get enough of that from other people. i hope for your sake that you become a more accepting person,
just dont ever make a another person feel as bad as that girl did to me because you wouldnt want someone to die just because of your hateful words would you?

Edited by afireinside, 09 August 2004 - 10:33 PM.

[Zylia]

Mec. Ready, one sentence per line, I'll drop my English level down for you:


Your viewpoints are the reason 30% of gay and lesbian teenagers commit suicide.

How does that make you feel?
A. Extremely happy that women can't have an abortion yet I can be such a jackass that I can make gays and lesbians feel so bad that they no longer want to exists?!
B. Just happy.
C. Willing to rethink my viewpoint.
D. Not willing to rethink my viewpoint.

Your rejection causes pain.

What would accepting them cause?

I'll let you... EXPLAIN... your answer... I would hope in the next post you make...

I'm also begging you that when you reply to people's thoughts and comments, for one moment of your precious life... think from the other perspective. You can't live your life thinking inside the box. All of us have tried thinking your way in order to gather an answer to you. Why don't you try now?

[jurian]

i've been doing some research and i found this childhood picture of mec

[Cule]

funny

[Mec]

Let's restate everything, shall we?

Me: Abortion is wrong.

Enemies: Abortion is right, because people are raped.

Enemies: Mec you're stupid.

Me: So what? Unborn Babies have a right to life same as you do. They're innocent.

Enemies: People are raped!!!

Enemies: Mec you're stupid.

Mec: (ignoring them; they make no sense) Being gay is wrong too!

Enemies: Mec you're stupid.

Enemies: OO! You brought religion into your arguments! There IS no right or wrong! You're ignoring out posts too!

Enemies: Mec you're stupid.

Me: I'm still right.

Enemies: Nooo, we disproved you.

Enemies: Mec you're stupid.

Afireinside: I'm gay! You're a racist Mec!

Enemies: Mec you're stupid.

Me: Being gay is immorral because it's harmful! Gay people are more likely to commit suicide, so gay people should quit being gay because it's a bad influence to kids who might follow their example and become gay and commit suicide. and you guys are the racists because you discriminate and KILL unborn babies.

Enemies: Mec you're stupid.

Enemies: No it's not. It's none of your business either! You're not fit to decide! You've never been gay!

Enemies: Mec you're stupid.

Me: Well, have the surpreme court justices?

Enemies: Mec you're a biggot.



Perhaps this is... umm... a bit exaggerated, but I think I followed the gist of the argument pretty well.

Anyone care to add to the summary or post their own? Or criticise it.

[Squee]

#5: yes homos hurt the world. what they do is unhealthy and abnormal, non-chrisitian behavior. why do they insist on letting the world know they are gay... they have their civil unions, the only purpose of them having gay marriage is because they want to feel "normal" WELL GOD DAMN IT THEY AREN'T

I haven't read this whole thread (yet) but when I read that, I just had to speak up. I cringed as I read that over a second time (maybe I read it again because I was hoping that what I first thought and saw were two different things).

"Hey, Squee, what's wrong with your eyes? And your hair? And your skin? They're so...different. What? You're Vietnamese? Oh, you're not normal. Please, seperate yourself from us.

We're not saying that we're better than you, we're just telling you that you're different than us and need to go away. Oh, but don't worry, we respect you enough that you can mingle with other of your kind...but so long as we don't ever have to see it or hear of it or ever have to act like it even exists."

For all you (so-called) Christians out there, I wish so badly that I could just magically summon up Jesus Himself. Then, I'd like to watch you squirm as he tells you that you're all wrong.

Please, remind me the Golden Rule of Christianity? Was it... do unto others as you would have them do unto you? How would you like it if all the gay and lesbian people suddenly said that you were no longer allowed to marry people of the opposite sex. You'd be damn right pissed. You'd be offended. You'd be hurt.

Sure, I can understand some of you are homophobic and are afraid of these changes. Who wouldn't be? Change is scary, there's no denying that. However, must you turn your fear into hate? You act like gay people are these animals that you have the right to control. No, they're real people. We're all people. We all have feelings and we all need to be with others. Who are you to say otherwise?

Penguin, imagine for a moment that I loved another girl. I loved her madly and deeply. My very core screamed to be with her day and night. We adore each other. We want to be with each other for the rest of time. We've known each other since we were teenagers. Yes, we fight and we don't always get along... but it's so hard to stay mad at each other. All in all, we're truly in love.

In fact, we're so in love that I've decided to propose to her. With tears streaming down her cheeks, she hugs me and kisses me and tells me that it would make her happier than anything to be with me.

Now, I go to my parents for their blessing. Uh oh. Guess what? I'm not allowed to marry her! Would you like to know why? She's German and I'm Vietnamese. We're apple and oranges. We're not "normal". And despite the fact that we are truly meant for each other, we can never make that final committment to each other. Doesn't that break your heart even a bit?

I mean, we're both people, aren't we? We both were born naked and screaming. We both scraped our knees as kids and we cried to our parents. We both remember our first kiss, the first time we fell asleep next to each other. We're people and there's nothing you can say that would prove otherwise.

I think I'm repeating myself a lot in this post. I suppose it's because I'm trying to get a point across - people are people, regardless. Tell me that a gay person isn't a person. That a gay person doesn't deserve the same treatment as anyone else.

Tell me it and then choke on your damn Bible!

[Night_Angel]

I did not read past the first page because i felt i would get too angry to type. so im adding my two cents and thast all lol.
First i think that Bush should remian in office. my views on Kerry are due to a lack of respest i saw from his supporters at the "Rolling Thunder" (a motorcycle ride to the Vietnam Memorial to honor Americas fallen vets around Memorial Day) as i am a vet i went on the Rolling Thunder and as i rounded a corner all i could see were vote for kerry signs. i felt this was disrespectful of what the day was for. it was to honor the Service men who died for the country. not to promote someone who went home cause he got scratched three times and supported Fonda (or whoever that woman was who collected names of ranking officials for teh enemy.)
I think that Bush did the right thing with the war and im sure many of my fellow Service men and women will agree.

Second gay marrages. I am a Christian so therefor i dont agree with gay marrages. i have family that are gay and i have friends who are gay so please dont think that i am juat a sheltered child ho doesnt know anything about gay people. i kno wwhat marrage is for and its supposed to be for a Man and Woman to devote themselves to each other for life. its not natural for someone to be gay. our bodies arent made for it our bodies are made for hetrosexual relations. weve all taken health you know what i mean) there is nothing natural about putting a sexual organ into a oriface thats only purpose is to dispell waste from the body.

Third abortion. i am compleatly against abortion. no ifs ands or buts. i used to think that it depended on the situation. well i dont anymore. the child has nothing to do with the situation and should not have to pay for it. too many eople use abortion as another form of birth control an dits not. i dont agree that a woman can abort a baby without the father's consent, the father cant tell the woman to abort it and even if he does tell her to she doesnt have to listen. if he wants the child and she doesnt hes out of luck she can abort. but if he doesnt want the child and she does hes on the hook to pay. this doesnt seem right to me. then again i dont agree with abortion so none of that should be an issue.
A child is a person from the moment of conception. you may have made a mistake resulting in being pregnant but that child made no mistake. he or she should not have to pay for your mistake.
If a person doesnt not want a child there are so many people out there who cannot have children who would love to adopt. and they are having to go to china an dother countries because women throw babys away like they are nothing. anytime one of my friends wants to abort a child i thikn about my aunt who couldnt have children but wanted one so bad, and she could afford one. but she couldnt afford to go out of the country. I think that with so many people willing and wanting to bring a child into their house, there shouldnt be any abortions. also if people would be responsible about there sex life they wouldnt get pregnant.
I understand that the biggest arguemnt for abortion is Rape. well if you cant raise that child due to lack of finances or you dont think you can look at that child after what happened there is someone out there who would love that child even if he or she was a result of a rape.

im going to stop now cause im getting upset feel free to rip my opinion to shreads.


Edit: I realize that i may have lost somethign in some peoples eyes for this post but please remember that these are MY opinions and that i am not trying to cut anyone down or tear anyone up. anyone who knows me knows i am an accepting person it is not my place to judge you. i have friends who are gay and who have had abortions and who will be voting for kerry but they are still my friends and i treat them no different from any other person i know. i have also been curious before and done stuff with other women and i know its wrong in my eyes so i dont do it anymore i dont think less of the women ive tried stuff with in fact i love her dearly, as a friend or sister though.

Edited by Night_Angel, 29 August 2004 - 05:25 AM.

[jurian]

let the thread (or mec) die plz

[Lich]

Angel you are right with that post you did loose something in somones eye's.

Election i could care less you have always been die hard republican no matter is the repubilcan is wrong or not, so is excepted that your veiw will not change.

But being who you are and because I know you in real life soe of your other statements not only surprise me, but offend me as well.

im not gonna repost everything i have said it is a waste of time, and you are an adult and can look for what I mean. Excepting is a word that is offensive to me and here is why. When you except something you are still saying its wrong, but you cant change therefore you except it. Like Mec you have based your arguements on christrianity again I point out that when compaired with other religons my own included as well as, all asian religions, Hinduism and a plethera of others Christianity is a new religon.

A new belief that with in it you as person were not even allowed to vote because you were inferior, a women was considered against god because, she allowed her self to be fooled by the devil and gave adam the apple. For centuries after christianity was born and womens rights were stripped, rights that every other religon in europe at the time had given them as women were in all case equl except a few where they were revered as the more strong of the species because the gods gave them the right to carry life.

A religion that untill not even 50 years ago, considered it immoral for a women to own land with her husband, if you look into the recnt past of christianity women were the gays, now it is just another target.

Abortion i will not even discuss with except to say that again if you were a person who showed the same status of life, that an infant baby does at the legal state of aborting, you would not be allowed to be placed on life support, that with in its self is a form of murder, but it is legal and never once is it discussed, in fact we take steps to insure that we are not placed on it. even if we show more than a fetus, so i will say no more as i have wanted this thread to die.

But yes you havelost something in someones eyes and you know why.

[Angelus]

Why not let everyone just think what they want, you say he's wrong and he says you're wrong. It's all about opinions, the whole world is based around opinions on whats good and bad.

Abortion - I don't care, i'll never get pregnant. And if my g/f will then it's her choice, no one elses.

Gayness - I don't care, i'm not gay, let them do what they want as long as they stay outta my crap

Maybe pay some more attention to what you yourself think and a little less to what others think.

Edited by Angelus, 29 August 2004 - 10:03 AM.

[Lady_Maha]

Well Sharon, your political orientation doesn't concern me, since it is your personal choice who to vote for, but I have a few things to say about the other two subjects we are discussing here.

Gay marriages: It doesn't concern you at all when two people of the same sex get married, it doesn't hurt you, it won't affect YOUR life in any way shape or form. How can you base OTHER people's life on YOUR religion? Those people have rights, the same as yours, and if they truly love each other I see no reason why they can't get married. It won't happen in your church, it will happen in a courthouse. I never thought of you as a bigot Sharon, don't prove me wrong.

Abortions: No woman in her right mind will look at an abortion as a form of birth control. Once again, it doesn't affect YOU personally. You do not know about the situation the woman is in, how she got pregnant, what risks the pregnancy can cause. If YOU choose for YOURSELF not to have abortions, that is fine, but don't try to force your beliefs upon others.

I do believe that if a woman is married and is pregnant from her husband he should have a say in it, however: If a pregnancy causes serious health risks for a woman, I believe she should have the right to have the pregnancy terminated. Who says that a fetus's life is more precious than that of the woman carrying it? Shouldn't she be allowed to stop risk to her life?

I also believe that a rape victim should be allowed to have an abortion. As discussed before, it is NOT considered life until after the first trimester. Unless you have been in that particular situation, do not judge others. I have been, and I can tell you, I would have rather taken my own life than to carry out the child of the person who put me through the most miserable time ever.

Oh, and doesn't the bible say that those without faults should throw the first stone? Do not jude others lest you want to be judged. Do not bring your religion into this, none of us except Mec do. Freedom of religion is a wonderful thing, and I belive in that. And that includes laws etc not being based on religon.

That's all I will say to you about that.

[jurian]

in holland there is freedom of religion as long as it does not harm others like we had some guy calling gayness a desease and yes he got some sentence/penalty for it.

[Cule]

no!! dont restart this!!

[Zylia]

Death to this thread!!!

Mec, I see what your beliefs are, you believe that because 'God' whom you believe in, gave everyone life and wanted everyone to procreate and allow the human race to prosper. Everything should be perfect. Man and woman should be wed and not have any sexual relationships before they have a ring on their finger. This is a good set of moral beliefs, but in a world of murders, rapes, and wrongdoing not everything is so clear cut. It would be wonderful if every man and woman could be united with a soul mate, have kids, have funds to support themselves and be happy. The reality of life is that you can't always have a perfect life. Someone is always going to be different and there is always going to be someone somewhere who is suffering. The most you can do to be polite to your fellow human beings is to respect them and what they believe in. Not everyone can have the ideal life, and most people do what they want and have to do to be happy. You can't force someone to be happy, they have to acquire happiness the only way that they can. This may be through aborting a child which they cannot support, this may be through connecting emotionally with someone of the same sex, and for some, though it sounds sick, see that the only way to be happy is to cause hurt and pain to others (emotionally or physically - husbands beat their wives, children.. sometimes use abusive language and mistreatment - mainly to make themselves appear more powerful and in control of a situation or person). There is nothing that can be done to stop this.

What I'm trying to say is people do the things they do so that they can be happy and have as good as a life as they can get. You can't force someone to be happy!!! The only way a person can be happy is to do it themself! Now let this poor abused thread die. Mec has his beliefs, we all have our beliefs. I think we see that this is a neverending road and all we're doing is running around in circles. Let's just respect each other and not keep the argument going.

Mec ~ I have a great website for you if you want to attempt to debate some other issues of the elections. America's Debate Forums They have a ton of forums on all different subjects. You ought to check it out.

[Night_Angel]

*double posted oops*

Edited by Night_Angel, 29 August 2004 - 04:45 PM.

[Night_Angel]

Lich and Maha you know that you were the people who i was worried about losing somethign in your eyes. thats why i made the edit. have i EVER tried to change what you thought or what you believe? i have had discussions learning about your beliefs. Have i EVER showed you any less respect then anyone else? i didnt think i did i thought i showed you more. like i said it is not my place to judge and i dont want to cause i love you both. i could be wrong in my beliefs and you could be right. i dont want you to think any less of me for my beliefs as i dont think less of you for yours.
Lich your right accepting is the wrong word i dont want to change how or what you think and feel. maybe loving and careing. it doesnt matter to me what beliefs ppl have or what they do i love them because they are a person and they matter to me. Tanja and Shawn you have mattered to me more than alot of people since i met you and i love you like family, for some reason we got close fast and i dont want to lose that. i know im not perfect and i mess up and our beliefs and opinions on things are different but i love you both the same after reading your thoughts (i went back and read them) as i did before. and i would like for you to try not to look at me different for mine.

[Lich]

Now that i am calm down, Sharo hunney your fine, you have never tried to change my views true, but you should take the time to read the whole thread even mecs gibberish and you will see what we mean by leave religon out of it, Read what has been said as to why we believe it read the evidence given into both sides. then post because you came across sounding like mec and that is why we were Mad.