64 replies to this topic

[Epic]

I'm just curious as to why zerkers still have 6 stam, i mean its been gone over lots of times but...they can round anything with 5 stam not spelled up..and they can do it with 4 and possibly 3 stam spelled up...wuts the deal

[Quark]

I agree here, zerkers can do intense rounds on basically anything, spelled up they can round anything really, they should be reduced in stam

[Stigmata]

I don't see a problem with them as a class -

You guys are looking at them with righteous fury, which agreed may need reducing.

I'm sure you'll agree they arn't exactly overpowered without them.

So with that in mind maybe you should be suggesting improvments for RF

[Angelus]

Run an arch 500hp+ from BT to Museum Doors and you're almost mort if you come there, lack of ac/mods make them sucky. One on one they always die, they miss too much and get hit for too much... Luck has a lot to do with it, i used 3 arch serkers on a fighter and only got him too mort. You lost, lets nerf a class..erm no?

Also, i don't even play berserkers anymore cause they're no fun, but im still for 6 stam.

[Thunderja]

In the end it evens itself out, you get a zerkers cleric, in 30 seconds the zerker will be as much use as the quitting forum. There are certain disadvantages even spelled that make them less than perfect.

[Epic]

...they can round anything with 5 stam not spelled up..

Without being spelled up they have the ability to do a round of 480 or so...no other class comes that close to being able to do that much damage with all their stam..granted zerkers dont have mods and they do lose a lil hps when they zerk..maybe have it take away less hps or something..but it just doesnt make sense they can use half of the ammt of stam they get at arch and still round things

[Epic]

In the end it evens itself out, you get a zerkers cleric, in 30 seconds the zerker will be as much use as the quitting forum. There are certain disadvantages even spelled that make them less than perfect.

Yes..that is if he doesnt round you first with 4 stam

EDIT: "Grats, i got taken out 2nd round, pfff how can a hypno'd/DL/non RF zerker not hit an arch ranger with 23 dex? silly game . "

that quote came from Thunderja in the PT section...its cause they are a screwie class and they should be modified

Edited by Epic, 13 June 2004 - 11:53 PM.

[Insomnia]

In the end it evens itself out, you get a zerkers cleric, in 30 seconds the zerker will be as much use as the quitting forum. There are certain disadvantages even spelled that make them less than perfect.

Luckily for the zerkers then - they don't need 30 seconds to slaughter the enemy party.

[Gaddy]

I definatly had casted Divine Light and Hypno'd (i dont think they stack though) an arch zerker. It didn't have a cleric to start with (this was during prof tournament), so no spells, it was the last left of his party---It clicked newb, arch halfling ranger 291hp, with smite (i don't remember if Newb had dex mods on or not).

That is one example of a zerkers power, with or without spells. I think we all know they're plenty too strong when they've got spells on, I think they are even without.


But I also do not play zerks so it makes it kind of unfair for me to think other people's crits should be weakend. (zerkers don't appeal to me because I don't need rounding other people power, i rarely fight w/ people anymore, and their 0 armor is bad at bosses. Hurting themselved every time they attack is also a huge negative. They're simply not a good crit to take to a boss that hits often cause they run your cleric's stam healing for 10-25)

[Ryuku]

Notice that zerkers cannot wear ANY type of stat modifier cept for weapon ones.

[Epic]

again, thats not the point..without dex mods and spells they can still round an arch ranger with 5 more dex then them . If they do get a stam dropped maybe the ammt of hps they lose when they zerk/smite should be edited a lil bit..all i know is they have to much stam and they are to powerful with or without spells..thats why you see parties of 4+ zerkers running around more then a party of anything thing else days..cause they are to powerful

Edited by Epic, 14 June 2004 - 02:17 AM.

[Rappy_Ninja]

didnt read topic... but zerkers are lil over powered

owned few archie ones with good stats its almost unfair... lol

[Gaddy]

I'd also like to toss this in-

In Nightmist, the people go though 'fads'. Old fad was getting a few thieves and hit and running to kill people. I don't think anything changed to stop it, just all of the people with enough skill to make it deadly got tired of it cause there is not as much fun in running away as staying to fight.

Simply running around on spelled zerkers is getting old to most people. I know ryan and joel wanted to start getting rangers again, or talked about it some, and other people i know with many zerkers also have said they want rangers. Fad is kind of passing over a little bit, except in tournaments where people want to round you rather than fight you...which make sense.

Zerks, in my opinion, ought to be tweaked, they have an armor ignoring attack like thieves, higher hp than every class by a whole lot, a rapid fire like attack that can hit for well over 150 per each stamina, 6 stamina like fighters, they do now have racial bonuses on the half orcs so some will have small ammounts of armor (and it will come into play, such as small snake attacks that would usually have around 5 hits, maybe just 2 or 3 now).

All of those positives, and their one negative is that they don't get armor or mods. I think having way higher hp makes up enough for the no armor, the hurting themselves cancels out with having an armor ignoring attack imo...so hitting for around 40 more than any other classes 1 stam with full spells? 6 stam?...i think they get a bit too much extra.



Another was to steal from desert to make gold, or maybe that was just me and a couple of friends lol, but anyway, the new fad is pacifists to make gold....it doesn't, after nearly a year?, seem to be dropping out....making gold by stealing from the desert is limited, the monsters have to be killed before you can steal from them for any profit (i dont know that it is dropping out of style, i haven't done it in forever...i should start up again)...I'm sure pacis will either be limited, or jlh and pandi will simply not care about people having lots of gold.

[Thunderja]

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 63 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 36 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 36 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 62 points of damage.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 57 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 45 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 36 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 43 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 66 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 43 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 53 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 65 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 42 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 41 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 69 points of damage.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 52 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 41 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 66 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 66 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 46 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 52 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 45 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 34 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
You are AFK now, due to in-activity with the message 5 minutes of being inactive.

took 7 more rounds till finally....
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 57 points of damage.
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 46 points of damage.
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 54 points of damage.
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 49 points of damage.
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 38 points of damage.
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 55 points of damage.
You killed Champagne
You got 0 gold pieces.
Champagne fell to the floor, her injuries getting the better of her.

Without being spelled up they have the ability to do a round of 480 or so...

That is with the most powerful weapon ingame a 21 str 18 dex zerker vs a 23 dex ranger with 4 cr's, granted they have the ability to do so, but they hardly run around doing bulk ammounts of damage and clicking people. As you can see there are some very pitiful efforts and in most of those fights i think my ranger could have kicked his arse. Zerkers without RF are a luck class, they can go from one extreme by clicking a very good crit, to totally missing a full round.

The zerker class to be classed overpowered have to be accompanied by a good cleric, which is why i like them so much as i have a couple. They have the ability do do alot of damage to bosses, more so than any other class but their high matainence can easily hog the cleric leaving my other alts vunarable on occasions. Same thing in moshes/duels, they chew through pots more so than any other class, was it just pot luck in our duel in pro tourny you went for the zerker?

As for people running around NM with a zerker party, it does not change a thing, i use 2 clerics 2 Rangers 2 zerkers and a thief in my main party, or 1 of those annoying invis with mage+ thieves parties, and if i came across a party of them i would not hesitate to fight as duels outside of town basically the spelled up party with the other person macrod will win no matter what class he is using.

What quest items has a zerker ever got that are better than weapons you can get ingame boss killing or buying? what stat mods?

Anyway zerkers are a tough class, and i seen how i could use their potential so i worked hard to train mine. i also did the same with Rangers/Thieves and i use them just as often and they are just as good just used a little differently. One thing i like about this game so much is the balance (apart from maybe my arch fighters rotting in my acc) and i honestly don't think zerkers upset the balance in anyway, even with 6 stam.

[trauma]

sighs, sounds to me like yall need to get some zerks, then you want have an argument.. i mean.. like they saying, they have 0 armor, have u ever hit a zerk with a spelled ranger.. i mean come on guys,if you gonna take away anything, take away those sad azz pacifist..

[Thunderja]

sighs, sounds to me like yall need to get some zerks, then you want have an argument.. i mean.. like they saying, they have 0 armor, have u ever hit a zerk with a spelled ranger.. i mean come on guys,if you gonna take away anything, take away those sad azz pacifist..

/nod... Well said.

(lol)

[Eternyte]

OK, then. Why do you berserker users still use a berserkers if they are so bad. Don't beat around the bush with if/but/and/or. Just a plain and simple answer. Why do you use them if they are so poor?

When mages were poor I sold my mage, why haven't you done the same if they really are that bad?


Edit:
Round 4-

(WON) Stigmata, Imperium, Mekill VS Myrdon, Air, Acrimony

Ironic, don't you think?

Edited by Eternyte, 14 June 2004 - 09:27 AM.

[Epic]

OK, then. Why do you berserker users still use a berserkers if they are so bad. Don't beat around the bush with if/but/and/or. Just a plain and simple answer. Why do you use them if they are so poor?

When mages were poor I sold my mage, why haven't you done the same if they really are that bad?


Edit:
Round 4-

(WON) Stigmata, Imperium, Mekill VS Myrdon, Air, Acrimony

Ironic, don't you think?

*claps*

[Thunderja]

OK, then. Why do you berserker users still use a berserkers if they are so bad. Don't beat around the bush with if/but/and/or. Just a plain and simple answer. Why do you use them if they are so poor?

When mages were poor I sold my mage, why haven't you done the same if they really are that bad?


Edit:
Round 4-

(WON) Stigmata, Imperium, Mekill VS Myrdon, Air, Acrimony

Ironic, don't you think?

I can't see anywhere where someone has said zerkers are bad, I see their negatives been bought up to counteract their positives hence the discussion. Either im going blind or you didn't read properly....

Look over the pro tourny logs aswell, i think a cleric/ranger/ranger combo would have won more than any other

[Tatsu]

so...you start complaining about zerkers when four of them get into the final, yet last week there were 5 rangers in the final and no complaints were made. just because the zerkers got a lucky streak this time round, doesnt mean they are overpowered.

yes they do round crits which a fully equiped, but this is rare, even when the zerker has a 2+ mil/10 mil weapon equipped. even with RF and enhance and BoT ive survived 2 full rounds on my thief, which at that time was suffering from lack or armor and no AoH as well. zerkers need to be powerful due to lack of armor and unreliability (as already stated), reduce the amount of damage they deal and there is no incentive whatsoever to get zerkers.

as for having more hps, factor in the armor values of other classes and i think you might find they actually have less hps. this was shown in another post i think, tho i dont have time to find it now.

i think zerkers are one of the best classes introduced to nightmist yet, it adds variation (rather than having a party of rangers at bosses, it is now more effective to have a zerker-ranger combo), unpredictability and tactics to the game, which is what we need

[Insomnia]

it adds variation, unpredictability and tactics to the game, which is what we need

.. ha ha?

[Epic]

Getting rounded by zerkers isnt really all that rare, when i lost in the tourny the other day my cleric which had 20 dex at the time got rounded by the 18 dex zerker(with 4 stam mind you) and my ranger with 23 dex and 108 armor got rounded by the 18 dex zerker...

[trauma]

well i have 5 arch zerks, and i aint sellin jack lol..

[Rappy_Ninja]

zerkers are over powered I think anyways -.-
owned few arch ones in my life time

spelled can round anything pretty much

[Insomnia]

Last time I entered the tournament I went vs. 1 cleric + 2 berserkers in the first round, I had a cleric, ranger and a thief. We took out each others clerics pretty fast, ending up with 2 zerkers vs. my thief (20 dex, 317 hp) and ranger (23 dex, 291 hp). I should have a bigger chance of winning this considering zerkers uses pots faster, right? Too bad that both my crits got clicked the in the following 3 seconds. Gotta love the tactic they bring to the game.

Edit
Oh, and did I mention they used 4 resp. 5 stamina to click my crits?

Edited by Insomnia, 14 June 2004 - 07:49 PM.

[Thunderja]

Last time I entered the tournament I went vs. 1 cleric + 2 berserkers in the first round, I had a cleric, ranger and a thief. We took out each others clerics pretty fast, ending up with 2 zerkers vs. my thief (20 dex, 317 hp) and ranger (23 dex, 291 hp). I should have a bigger chance of winning this considering zerkers uses pots faster, right? Too bad that both my crits got clicked the in the following 3 seconds. Gotta love the tactic they bring to the game.

Edit
Oh, and did I mention they used 4 resp. 5 stamina to click my crits?

Sounds like his cleric got off a couple of spells before he was killed, like i posted earlier they hardly run around clicking every crit and their dog unspelled with 6 stam let alone 4.

[Bean]

My unspelled zerk with 17 dex at lvl 28 can regularly *I mean with 60%+ occurance* Round my 22 dex thief... and my 22 dex fighter...
*5-10% of those were with only 3 stam*

[Rappy_Ninja]

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 63 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 36 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 36 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 62 points of damage.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 57 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 45 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 36 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 43 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 66 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 43 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 53 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 65 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 42 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 41 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 69 points of damage.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 52 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 41 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 66 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 66 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 46 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 52 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.

Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 45 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time for 34 points of damage.
Renegade berserked at you from his Blade of Time, but missed.
You are AFK now, due to in-activity with the message 5 minutes of being inactive.

took 7 more rounds till finally....
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 57 points of damage.
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 46 points of damage.
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 54 points of damage.
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 49 points of damage.
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 38 points of damage.
You berserked at Champagne from your Blade of Time for 55 points of damage.
You killed Champagne
You got 0 gold pieces.
Champagne fell to the floor, her injuries getting the better of her.

Without being spelled up they have the ability to do a round of 480 or so...

That is with the most powerful weapon ingame a 21 str 18 dex zerker vs a 23 dex ranger with 4 cr's, granted they have the ability to do so, but they hardly run around doing bulk ammounts of damage and clicking people. As you can see there are some very pitiful efforts and in most of those fights i think my ranger could have kicked his arse. Zerkers without RF are a luck class, they can go from one extreme by clicking a very good crit, to totally missing a full round.

The zerker class to be classed overpowered have to be accompanied by a good cleric, which is why i like them so much as i have a couple. They have the ability do do alot of damage to bosses, more so than any other class but their high matainence can easily hog the cleric leaving my other alts vunarable on occasions. Same thing in moshes/duels, they chew through pots more so than any other class, was it just pot luck in our duel in pro tourny you went for the zerker?

As for people running around NM with a zerker party, it does not change a thing, i use 2 clerics 2 Rangers 2 zerkers and a thief in my main party, or 1 of those annoying invis with mage+ thieves parties, and if i came across a party of them i would not hesitate to fight as duels outside of town basically the spelled up party with the other person macrod will win no matter what class he is using.

What quest items has a zerker ever got that are better than weapons you can get ingame boss killing or buying? what stat mods?

Anyway zerkers are a tough class, and i seen how i could use their potential so i worked hard to train mine. i also did the same with Rangers/Thieves and i use them just as often and they are just as good just used a little differently. One thing i like about this game so much is the balance (apart from maybe my arch fighters rotting in my acc) and i honestly don't think zerkers upset the balance in anyway, even with 6 stam.

its not that hard to make them seem weak but if you say they arent over powered

why do I get hit for 110 with just a adament on my full arch ling fighter (thats like 106 armor) and somehow I can still get hit for 110


thats just 1 stamina not all 6

[Thunderja]

OMG once again you are talking about a spelled zerker foo'. Spell your ling fighter up and hit him back and see if the zerk starts crying about your damage.

You attacked Renegade with your Blade of Time for 101 points of damage.
You attacked Renegade with your Blade of Time for 54 points of damage.
You tried to attack Renegade with your Blade of Time but missed.
You attacked Renegade with your Blade of Time for 102 points of damage.
You attacked Renegade with your Blade of Time for 93 points of damage.
You tried to attack Renegade with your Blade of Time but missed.
(Breaker)

/cry zerkers get hit for too much

Like i said a zerker spelled is a machine, the point im getting accross is the same goes with rangers too, just not to such a degree. And like i said i think certain zerker qualities even the playing field even when spelled up.

[trauma]

i think thats the same thing i basically said in my post.. zerks have 0 armor.. meaning they get hit for alot more damage than anything else.. i really dont see what the fuss is about here..