42 replies to this topic

[Freek]

Loving the changes all the time. Can't wait to see the big major update.

But!

Nerf Tunic Absorb not Armor please!

You summon a beam of pure light, blinding Khemere for 53.6 points of damage.
You summon a beam of pure light, blinding Khemere for 52 points of damage.
You summon a beam of pure light, blinding Khemere for 52 points of damage.
You summon a beam of pure light, blinding Khemere for 52.8 points of damage.
You summon a beam of pure light, blinding Khemere for 52 points of damage.
You summon a beam of pure light, blinding Khemere for 52 points of damage.

!!!

[Dangerous]

It's cuz hes Elf just, nothing to do with absorb

[brewcrew]

I am elf full wiz mod and he hits me harder lol

[Vega]

Get better mage O.o

[Apocalypto]

fighters have tank hp, and pallys with holy speed at 36+ will prolly be pretty beast. dont agree that they need help with absorb... dont agree with nerfing armor

[ice_cold]

Freek rounds Sovereign (22 Wis) all day with 5 beams. Freak has 6 beams. Sovereign would need to level 5 more times to even have a chance at not being rounded. That's lvl 37 against a 34. A mage with 7 stam, would round Sovereign any level anyday. Seems spell absorb is good to me. there's no reason a mage should be the only class not a single person can protect themselves from.

I also agree with the nerfing of warrior tunic armor. Holy speed works fine. with regular equipment I have 100 armor (halfling 107). When I have Jase's god awful powerful item on, I have 90 armor +2 str and .2 spell absorb. doesn't seem like a bad trade off to me.

What I'm mad about, is no one has said anything about all classes in the coven! NEW MONSTER KILLS!

[Apocalypto]

i agree with changes overall now that i thought about them. kinda sad about the ranger armor tho haha..

[Freek]

The problem I have with absorb is that it is a constant and there is no way around it. You put on a piece of gear with x amount of absorb on it and you instantly decrease the damage of the mage by that percent.. always.. No other defensive stat does this. I can try to stack armor but armor only goes up so high, so not only is it still a chance based to block a hit but its also impossible to get armor to a certain limit. Therefore magic users are the only class that can be countered consistently.

When Emma introduced absorb (back when mages were "op") she knew that absorb was a powerful stat and thats why even then she dealt with it in small percentages. The idea was to stack absorb if you wanted to fend off a mage. Not have one item with enough power to decrease the damage of a mage by 20% always. Now not only does a mage get -20% instantly, then there attacks can still fizzle, be resisted and be half resisted.

I don't mind the idea behind absorb but if we are going to put items in game that not only give great offensive stats (2 str) and then give it a constant 20% damage reduction it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Absorb the way it is currently designed should have to be something you have to trade off to get. 20% damage reduction and 2str for a little bit of armor? I'll make that trade all day. Yet Feathered Boot's not only give -20 armor they also take away 3 str and thats just for 1 dex.

To get a high % of absorb you should have to stack those types of items or those items shouldn't give you a bonus + a bonus. If I want to take 20% less damage always I should give up a stat, not gain 2.


So basically.

Absorb should either be a stat that takes multiple items to stack high or a trade off on gear.
or
Absorb should be redesigned to have chance involved. Yes you might have 20% absorb but there should still be a chance involved on if you will actually absorb the damage or not.

[Apocalypto]

supported.

[Dangerous]

I find myself asking why i let you beam me lol but i'm totally biased on the subject so i won't post thoughts

[Silk]

I play a fighter, day in day out. I've liked them since main server started and they have always been the worst choice of crit on nightmist, they stand no pvp chance against any crit 1v1 i dont see why they shouldnt have some magic resist, im running 22 wis on an elf fighter warrior tunic enhances that a bit yes, but i lose straight up to every other crit in the game save maybe a thief (and im talkin equal levels) why? because every class has armor and it drops my damage 100% of the time, Mages dont have to overcome armor and never have.
Magic resist is just armor vs mages, and fighters/pallies/rangers do crap dmg vs Aop'd mages its just part of the game.

Also Calculator: 53.6+52+52+52.8+52+52 = 314.4(whats that 1 beam short of rounding him?) thats pretty good dmg. id like to see what he hits you for while your armor is 135 or so

[Freek]

If you played a fighter before and you played them now you would know there is a huge difference in the two. With critic strike a 35 fighter can round a 37 druid fully spelled. I've seen it. Critic strike makes fighters one of the best pvpers. They have enough HP to tank, enough armor to absorb and can potentially dish out some of the highest damage per round.

As far as armor is concerned, armor is still roll based. Meaning there is still a chance to do full damage. Absorb is a constant %. Meaning 100% of the time you will be absorbing 20% of the damage.

Absorb is the only thing in this game that doesn't have some sort of roll involved and to me that doesn't make sense.

I don't mind the idea of absorb intact I like the idea of choosing between stats. I do it on the mage all the time. Sometime I dex out, sometimes Intel and sometimes I like to armor stack. But I don't have an item that gives so much for so little. Black robes gives me 2 damage for a ton of armor.

I just think absorb should be roll based and take more effort to stack


Edit: just read piddys post.

I don't mind a fighter absorb stacking an making me useless that's fine. I don't believe that one item alone can reduce my damage by 20% always and then still be benefiting more.

If you havent figure it out I'm not against absorb. I wouldnt mind WT if it gave 20% absorb and didn't have str mods. The item was balanced before fighters could ignore armor. And the 2 str didn't affect it much. Not anymore. I wouldn't mind the current form on a pally due to horrid hit rate, low HP, low damage and no armor pen. But on a fighter with critical strike, high HP and the ability to stack 4 str with 2 items is absurd

Edited by Freek, 03 February 2012 - 11:12 PM.

[Silk]

Crit Strike isnt all that great, ive seen it in action a few times now, and vs spelled armor its crap. 35 rounding a 37 druid with full spells? ive never seen it but the fighter better be horc and spelled or im callin bs, and fighters have enough hp to tank what? another fighter? A thief with Dotw? I have an idea what if we put warrior tunic back to its full armor leave it at +2 str and take away the absorb completely, and release a new armor with same armor base +2 wis and no absorb? I'd like to see the dmg mages do vs 25 wis on an elf fighter, im willing to bet it would leave you begging for Warrior Tunic to exist the way it does right now. The game isnt broken Just because 4 people in the game have warrior tunics and you cant kill them, if you see them out training log on a zerk and go click em like everyone else does.

Also earlier you stated that its on all the time with no roll and you can still fizzle or get resisted, Honestly i would love to miss and get armor absorbed the blow as often as a mage fizzles or gets resisted, mainly because id probably be lvl 40 by now

Edited by Silk, 03 February 2012 - 11:27 PM.

[Silk]

Quick summary of dmg output

Round 1:
Fighter: Miss, miss, armor, armor, armor, Full, CS = 98 dmg in 7 stam
Mage: Resist, partial, Full, Full = 129.0575 in 4 stam

Round 2:
Fighter: Armor, Armor, Armor, CS = 62 dmg in 4 stam
Mage: Full, Full, Full = 152.5225 dmg in 3 stam

Round 3:
Fighter: Armor, Full, Armor, Armor = 28 dmg in 4 stam
Mage: Full = 53.2475 dmg in 1 stam and Fighter's death


If i had tunic id resist an additional 20%
that would make...
Mage
Round 1: 103.246 dmg in 4 stam
Round 2: 122.018 dmg in 3 stam
Round 3: 42.598 dmg in 1 stam

Total would then be 267.862 which is about 2 more partial dmg beams till the fighter dies

Im not sure on how much dmg 2 points of str affects each stam
on the fighter but im sure it doesnt round the mage before it dies. i dont think a case can be made for Warrior tunic being OP

Edited by Silk, 04 February 2012 - 12:35 AM.

[Freek]

The testing in everything is good but critic strike increases like every stat ingame. After 30 its scales dramatically each level. I entend to do more testing at the 35 level.

Before masta has rounded neo while neo was fully geared and spelled. And after that got close a lot of times.

Either way I still feel like it should be a little more difficult to stack absorb, have a bigger trade off or still be roll based.

But will play around with it more

[Autek]

In my opinion the class that really got the shaft with the nerfing of the WT are paladins. Their best armor item gets nerfed because of a different class that can use the same item.

[Gnarkill]

I don't know much about 1a fighters but even before CS came into play.. AoP has always been that way... fighters always had to time when AoP wore off on mages back in the day... only way I ever won against mages on Gnarkill in events and yet with a trinity blade he would beat cobalt druids 80% of the time(unless i fat fingered it up) and any other classes he didnt have a huge problem with(unless kev/rappy were paying them they got ninja fingers lol).. all you could do is pot and keep alive /timer till AoP drops and try to round. Anytime I got in a pissing match with mages I would get worked simply because of AoP and running out of pots eventually

I'm hoping they fixed that for the 30+ but I know at 30 and below it has always been a problem.

Edit: I think a group of us fighter users even whined/posted against AoP a few times back in the day haha

Edited by Gnarkill, 04 February 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[Shera]

In my opinion the class that really got the shaft with the nerfing of the WT are paladins. Their best armor item gets nerfed because of a different class that can use the same item.

Yep the pally's did get the shaft with the changing of WT since it was their best tunic. I wanted to have 24 str, I guess I'll have to settle for 23 if I want to use the WT, and have 7 less armor then I have now even with the addition of a Hades ammy. Maybe there needs to be an armor ammy that is pally only with 12 ac lol.

[Freek]

Yeah I didn't and don't mind the tunic on paladins. It's just fighters with cs has to much going for them. I fear that fighters will scale way to good. Rediculous stamina, critic rate, high HP and high armor.

Gonna test more when im home from work

[Gnarkill]

must have been some sh!tty druid users lol.

you have a point! Back then druids were only level 30 and without the nice 30+ and new 1a stam system.. so compared to now they were horrible.. but one of the more notable wins with it was against Rai on Rappys decked out druid in Triplex. Druids back then did not stack up to 1a druids these days though.

Edited by Gnarkill, 04 February 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Freek]

http://www.nightmist...mp;#entry244150

This topic had me pondering about things so I bumped that too.

[Silk]

I think mages have too much going for them. i mean really they do 100's of damage per round w/o fail to both players and monsters, they are more dodgy than even the dexiest thief, they have the ability to not only increase their stamina regeneration rate, but also thier armor rating(to almost 1.5* a standard fighters rating at equal level) , if armor starts to fail them they can turn invisible, and if invisibility is gonna wear before they could run somewhere, they just etherealy jaunt to their intended destination. Lets decide we should just nerf them and make a whole new thread about it

Why dont you drop your "fighters have the potential to actually be good for once, but this jeopardizes my mages superiority so it must be broken" stance and think about the game as a whole for 1 tiny time in your whole life


you got your l2l mana pond,you got your full dmg to hornets, you can let this one go

Edit: oh yeah and trap immunity forgot that one

Edited by Silk, 04 February 2012 - 09:12 PM.

[Freek]

Lol wow. You took this thread to a whole new direction and when i can reply with a keyboard I'm looking forward to it.

[Apocalypto]

lol. fighters werent great, but now they have more than potential to be good. they have potential to be broken. hopefully not, but masta vs neo wasnt a good indication of a different story...

[Silk]

i didnt take it a new direction, its the same direction but a new target, and masta vs neo may be a nice test, but check out todays triplex where...with spells on i couldnt touch neo. or pok. or ravage. or Nin. now i did get 2 rounds on nin with 2 Cs's per and both times it was for 120 dmg but the rest of the stam was wasted in misses, now maybe if i hit 7/7 CS anything will die, but if pok hits anything with berserk 8/8 or Nin hits anything with rapid fire 8/8 its gonna die, thats just tough luck.


I dont see why people think fighters have high HP, 400 hp isnt high teamed with 110 armor that would be like being naked with 510 hp, i understand that but with increased stam fighters HP is insignificant escept to maybe a thief or a cleric, druids at 30+ hit harder with spider staff than half of the fighters on the server hit with cobalt. In tripleX today Pok 5 stam smited me and stuck me to 1 hp. i at the time had 343hp and 163 armor(cleric spells) so in 5 stam pok did 505 in 5 stam im lucky to do 200 vs anything in the game, and btw CS vs zerks hits for less than what i normally hit them for, because why? CS ignores armor, and zerks dont have any so when fighters are lvl 40 and zerks are lvl 40 i dont think that fighters are gonna be able to kill zerks fast enough to avoid getting clicked. and since fighters will always lose to zerks and definately paladins, probably druids and rangers both i dont see how they will become OP overnight, as everything rises in level they all gain bonuses to stats and its probably pretty equal by now lvl 40 mage is gonna be popping off 600+ dmg a round zerks will be up over 1000 thieves are about 650 Rangers are about 650 and fighters will be about 750 all the math is there just look at now, and throw it forward

Edited by Silk, 04 February 2012 - 11:41 PM.

[Freek]

i didnt take it a new direction, its the same direction but a new target, and masta vs neo may be a nice test, but check out todays triplex where...with spells on i couldnt touch neo. or pok. or ravage. or Nin. now i did get 2 rounds on nin with 2 Cs's per and both times it was for 120 dmg but the rest of the stam was wasted in misses, now maybe if i hit 7/7 CS anything will die, but if pok hits anything with berserk 8/8 or Nin hits anything with rapid fire 8/8 its gonna die, thats just tough luck.

Except for the fact that you are 5-6 levels lower than them and millions if not billions of exp. Critic strike and hit rate both go uo dramatically the more exp you get. Masta was critting almost 50% of the time w/o max Intel. And no them hitting something with a full round at the same level doesn't mean instant death, yes its close and it should be cause its difficult to get a full round on anything vs anything

[Silk]

look 8/8 pok is gonna be squeezing out 900 dmg per round no crit in the game is gonna tank that nin will be hitting 700 per round no crit of equal lvl is gonna tank that but maybe a zerk and maybe a horc/dwarf fighter when your mage has 8 stam and youre probably gonna do 700 dmg per round on stuff that doesnt have magic resist and armor doesnt affect you. Zerks are gonna be beasty, rangers, mages, druids, pallies, are also gonna be beasty clerics fighters and thieves arent gonna be that great. thats just the way it is.... awww yeaaaah...so what if fighters have a slim chance to round anything but a zerk ?

[Apocalypto]

your on a lvl 31 hitting 36-38.. no nuts your gonna miss.. im training a pert ranger and it misses all the time.. but guess what, a few more lvls and it will rarely miss... your basing your opinion off a low lvl and with the basic mechanics of this game it is obvious that your CS will significantly increase...

[Silk]

no im basing it off of the levels the crits are now, multiplied forward to lvl 40 ill grant you that IF i hit CS every stam every round or close enough to it that im untouchable then its OP...But zerks have no reason to fear it it hits them for less than regular attacks Nin is lvl 38 he hits me for 50-70 per stam when a fighter is lvl 40 it might hit 80-150 per stam and yeah 80-150* 10 stam could be lethal but zerks do that kind of dmg at lvl 36 and noone is posting that they need nerfing. and yes your ranger will miss less and less, i think that in tripleX nin maybe missed me 10 times in 10 rounds and he was under DL fighters might hit all the time but the one thing they cannot get around is armor it will cause them to miss due to too little dmg to be counted as a hit they will get crappy hits vs armor alot of the time. There is 1 GM fighter on 1a and people are acting like all fighters are lvl 40 and they are running around in parties of 10 breaking the limits of the game, and this isnt near true, no matter what gear they have on, what you guys should be worried about are horc fighters with or without CS if they stack str mods so that hanced they are sitting at 50 str 10 stam but noone Worries about that
and its just as plausable

[brewcrew]

/t Silk ....the point you are not getting is that we tested CS with a lvl 35 dwarf fighter. It does not have max intel ( the stat that affects cs). Against Neo, a lvl 37 druid fully equipped (aka 4ac rings bbs ammys etc.) and the fighter ROUNDED Neo, who has great hp, and morted him 80% of the time. It wasn't just a one time deal, we tested it multiple times.