55 replies to this topic

[Üñtòúçhâßlë]

Well here i am posting cause ive come to about the end of my fuse with paccy's, i think they are draining the real meaning and morale of the game of survival of the smartest and fitest.... i dont believe in sitting on a paccy making gold and helping steal bosses... i dunno maybe the ppl who live on paccy's will stick up for them but thats wat their naturally going to do as its easy for them and they havn't had to work throught thick and thin to make it as a gud player and have respect like some of us have and i see people talkin about it everyday so im just seeing what ure view is...

Just post ure 2cents...

Thnx alot Craig

Edited by Üñtòúçhâßlë, 13 April 2004 - 06:39 PM.

[gnarley]

I agree, i use a paci.. lol and like the making gold part, but i dislike them very much, i just use cause they are there.. kinda like some alcoholics.. they dont wanan be.. they just cant help it

[draykill]

Paci's serve no purpose to the gaming experience; unless u like to sit around talk crap and make gold like a pansy. Paci's need to be changed. They can do whatever they want without a worry or care and make all the gold they want without ever having to worry about losing it.

Edited by draykill, 13 April 2004 - 06:20 PM.

[Genocide]

if this was 'survival of the smartest' you would lose because you spelt survival wrong

helping stealing bosses? whats this, if you were as good as you say, there would be no point saying this, because you would own the boss and get the kill everytime neway

Moral of the game? you make it sound serious, the moral of the game is to be bored on this instead of on your couch

Yea, people who sit on paci's will naturally stick up for them, just like the people who hate them (like you) are naturally going to put them down

Havent had to work through thick and thin? how do you no this? a paci could be your best friend and if they didn't tell you, you wouldnt know (they can be so discreet), they could be the person who has worked the hardest and trough the thickest nightmist has ever thrown at anyone, and you are saying they haven't, not too fair when you dont know who they really are is it?

i dont mean to dis you, yea ok you get the occasional git who sits on a paci on a boss square so it doesn't spawn, or who steals your kills, but then most of them say sorry and give you gold back anyway, there isnt no point in moaning about them killing everything specially when you sit in zeum, and the moderns spawn like every 5seconds anyway.

Nah seriously though i don't see the point in this post, the paci's are in the game for a reason...because some people do actually find them useful, not all but some, just like some people hate mages but they dont get flamed down in posts do they?

why are paci's there? oh yea thats it, because some people need a break from all the pkin and such i reacon some people who may of just started the game might want to explore the game a bit, look at new area's maybe make a little gold to help them out...but what happenes whenever they try this on normal crits? Bham some git jumps out from invis/covert and pops you! so the people who this applies to have a paci, and i wrong?

and i do remember once when you kept saying "god i wish people would stop pkin me" i bet if those days were still here you would have a paci right now.

Oh and btw, my account aint got 1 paci in it, i dont use em, i just dont see too much of a problem with them

[trauma]

well ill be blunt.. pacifist are for people who cant fight on reuglar alts.. plain and simple..

[hotsauce]

i agree with u all pacis are ruining the game and serve no purpose

[deadman]

Paci's were good in the beginning then they started to be abused. Sure they are pretty good gold makers but its stupid to sit on a paci al day its like a waste of time when u can be having fun on ur alts killing ppl or training. And then even worse they starting abusing them at bosses coming at mort then ppl bringing clans an stealing kills of bosses or having them take down jz to kill a few ppl and then putting it back up.


Simply Put PACI'S ARE ABUSED

[Rappy_Ninja]

I agree should be taken out lmao

[Xlithan]

i keep getting killed by those damn pacifists.

[newb]

Pacifists>>>>you

[Morgoth]

I agree totally either remove em or change them!! Maybe if jz used all you mana and only lasted 5 mins or something just change em so they aint so f****** annoying

[Xlithan]

well think about it.

they cant join clans or parties, you cant log on anymore chars when using them. they can't attack or be attacked, they're all alone with nothing to do but train. take away their ability to get gold will give them NOTHING to do, give them the power to attack will completely defeat the point of them being pacifists, having it so you can log on more alts will make them uber. *shrugs* i think they are fine tbh.

Edited by Squiggle, 13 April 2004 - 07:11 PM.

[draykill]

Hmm what happened to friend chat? Wait its still useable by paci's so i guess they not all alone, and um its a choice wether u prefer to be on alts or ur so called be all alone.

[Squee]

Oh no. Not a class you can't PK. Really, my heart goes out to you.

[Trevayne]

There is nothing wrong with the pacifist class. Staff have said many times that they are a part of the game that are here to stay. Get used to it.

Someone, please lock this thread.

[Zylia]

Pacifists + Stealing From Pacifists = Great Fun

Wishful thinking eh? Ok, maybe that wont happen. One thing that really bothers me about pacifists is basically you don't have to work hard at all to make money. Everyone knows that everyone who makes loads of money on a pacifist has it transfered over to their main alts. Maybe if this were prevented or something it would help out about the pacifists situation.

I remember how the game was when I first started. Though we've gotten so many great ideas put into the game, I would give anything to have many of the newer features removed. In my opinion, pacifists kind of spoil the game. They make going to a boss simple, they make making gold simple, and they cannot be killed. Remove all of these factors and the game might have a little bit of a challenge left.

It's too friendly for people now. I liked it back when you had to put an effort in to getting a boss drop. I liked it when you could pk everyone (not just ones in your range). I liked it when people couldn't become multi-millionaires off of one crit. I'm sorry but a some of these additions just really take the effort out of the game. You can't say that people whine about dying and whine about how they can't go to certain areas. I've played the game almost two years now. When I started out, I had no +/-10 lvl rule, I had no pacifist to make me money, I had no red stats on the roller to tell me when a stat was good. There were no toggleloc's or clan chairpersons to make things easier for keeping a clan safe. And look at me. I'm still here. So are alot of people. The bottom line of this is, we don't need the stuff thats making this game simple. Pacifists were made to allow newer players to explore Nightmist 'pk-free'. I didn't have this opportunity. I didn't complain about how I got killed everytime I went outside of town. Pacifists just aren't needed. People are abusing them in one way or another. I'm positive they weren't created to be gold miners, and I'm sure they weren't created to monitor boss runs. But they do.

I honestly wouldn't care if they were removed, but I'm not going say that they should be removed. My stance is, that the game is becoming too easy as is, and pacifists are a major part of that.

[Exor]

well ill be blunt.. pacifist are for people who cant fight on reuglar alts.. plain and simple..

well ill be blunt too.Fighting with loads of alts is for ppl with no skill.:)plain and simple.

[Üñtòúçhâßlë]

im in the same boat as zylia if u get me... word! (dunno wat the face is but thought it make a change hehe)

[Bean]

Oh ho! 3 points for Exor.

I think Squee said pretty much what needs to be said.

You cant pk it, so you whine. Boo hoo.

Edit: Paci's arent 'Abused' to let people kill bosses, I acctually think that was pandilex' expressed intention. Its called tactics. You have one friend log on a paci, run on the square, cast JZ and then you run in and start whacking away at the monster. Its not abuse, simple because there is no rule that says you have to be able to pk on boss squares. As well as there is no rule to say that people cant steal a boss kill from you...

Your all basing your arguements on unwritten rules of a.... more respectful kind. If the person doesnt have respect for you, then they can do whatever they damn well please short of swearing at you, and calling you racial names.....

Edited by Bean, 13 April 2004 - 08:35 PM.

[dognapot]

ugh pacifists. they're the largest reason i dread any new class in this game. what if it were to be worse than pacifists?. they're the solo class that makes PvP a pain, but the icing on that cake is always that no matter how much they manipulate combat, they do so with impunity. really it's quite simple to make the class more along it's goals...

prevent gold and items from leaving pacifists to anywhere other than an npc-shop

make pacifists vulnerable when they affect PvP interaction.

i think that would solve the bulk of it.

[Kharybdis]

Generally I have no problem with pacifists, aside from, as others have previously mentioned, the ease of making gold with them. One easy solution would be to drastically reduce the amount of gold dropped by undead monsters, but I can already see the outcry over that.

As far as player interaction goes, I've met about as many annoying pacifists as I have good ones. There are obnoxious players in every class... the difference with pacifists is that they can be jackasses with impunity. Here's one thing to consider: what if they were no longer protected by their deities?

Even without protection from their deities, pacifists still are definitely not lacking in defensive capability. They heal well, they have pretty strong armor, and they can use magic to neutralize threats. Even if there was just the possibility of getting killed by another player, I think the annoying few might think twice before casting greater pact and stealing your kill.

Edit: Looks like my last point is about the same as what dognapot was saying... so then, let's just say that I support what he wrote.

Edited by Kharybdis, 13 April 2004 - 09:38 PM.

[Onlyme]

Paccis r enoying and bored `


/yawn

[Gaddy]

I think if people paid less attention to what people on pacifists say they'd have fewer problems. I know I like pacis when I go to CG and people come in a mort and rather than being able to attack me like the cunts most people in game are (too lazy to work it to mort but will try to steal it then and i have to hold stam to defend myself rather than get a drop i spend time on), the people have to hit CG and hope for luck. I think sometimes the zeum is a bit over-packed when there are lots of pacis on, but i claim my space and tell the pacis that I'm just going though my space, if i kill something they'd been hitting, that's just how it is because im on alts and i am not going to sit there looking for pacis when i need to run around using stamina.


I do think that some people abuse pacifists, but not nearly as much as they used to. It used to be that people couldn't go to bosses without having some paci or 2 for the opposing clan put spells on them so they couldn't attack and stuff like that, but that has slowed down a good bit.

....I guess I really have no problem with pacifists anymore, most people who play them are cool and don't talk nuts. Some get attitudes and cast subdue and such nonsense on my crits for stealing kills or w/e, but really that's them just wasting mana with the crits i use to make gold half damage really doesn't slow me down THAT much..and it wears soon enough.


If you guys talk to the pacis in the zeum, 80% or so of them are actually pretty cool people and stuff. I know i've had pacis on numerous occasions come cast JZ while I logged onto my crits, when people log onto their thieves in zeum pacis have come and casted JZ on me and had me sit in square letting me know that people are being gay and starting to hit and run.....they help a good bit if you get on their right side.

-Gaddy

[Bean]

Gaddy you are the voice of reason

[Gaddy]

Generally I have no problem with pacifists, aside from, as others have previously mentioned, the ease of making gold with them. One easy solution would be to drastically reduce the amount of gold dropped by undead monsters, but I can already see the outcry over that.

As far as player interaction goes, I've met about as many annoying pacifists as I have good ones. There are obnoxious players in every class... the difference with pacifists is that they can be jackasses with impunity. Here's one thing to consider: what if they were no longer protected by their deities?

Even without protection from their deities, pacifists still are definitely not lacking in defensive capability. They heal well, they have pretty strong armor, and they can use magic to neutralize threats. Even if there was just the possibility of getting killed by another player, I think the annoying few might think twice before casting greater pact and stealing your kill.

Edit: Looks like my last point is about the same as what dognapot was saying... so then, let's just say that I support what he wrote.

Making it so that pacis could be attacked by other players would entirely ruin the class. You must realize that they train and gold make in places where people sit on a good set of thieves waiting for someone to kill. Thieves mostly ignore armor, so if a paci hits a mod and is waiting for stam and has 5 thieves hit it...there is basically a 0% chance of the paci surviving...that is completely ridiculous.

The point of the class is to be solo and not have to deal with other players being jackasses. They can make something like 50k an hour, if other players logged onto alts and went though zeum for a long time w/o being attacked....you'd be suprised...i know i've made 120k in 1 hour on my normal party, i simply do not have the patience to do it often...I guess pacis have the advantage of not having to log onto many alts (less lag and time logging on/off) and not having to worry about being jumpped.

I think tributing gold should be made to actually cause them to make less gold though. I got on Chrono the other day, since moderns practically never hit, the kill deity thing pretty much always goes to mana now, so they get back the mana they used and rarely have to ever use mana or tribute...that shouldn't be the way it is. I think the deity given for killing mods should either be taken away or halved or at the very least, lowered to where it doesnt entirely pay for the mana used to kill the mod.

[Bean]

Thats what makes training at the modern art sculptures good....

Besides, you have to make like 50k+ before you can go there anyhow, so you pay for the privelage to train there.

And as you said, other classes make money faster than pacis in there. So why hamper that for them?

[Kharybdis]

Making it so that pacis could be attacked by other players would entirely ruin the class.  You must realize that they train and gold make in places where people sit on a good set of thieves waiting for someone to kill.  Thieves mostly ignore armor, so if a paci hits a mod and is waiting for stam and has 5 thieves hit it...there is basically a 0% chance of the paci surviving...that is completely ridiculous.

Good point; I didn't really take thieves and other one-click classes into account. For whatever it's worth, I retract what I said about making pacifists vulnerable.

Still, I don't think they should be able to make gold quite as easily. You may be able to make gold faster on other crits, but on a pacifist you're making that gold with virtually no risk.

Edited by Kharybdis, 13 April 2004 - 10:38 PM.

[Zylia]

Besides, you have to make like 50k+ before you can go there anyhow, so you pay for the privelage to train there.

You can use the site to transfer gold onto a pacifist. You don't -have- to make 50k on a pacifist.

Also, how reasonable is it to make over a million gold (which I could name a few people who have... ) on one crit? I'd love to see any other single class accomplish that.

The main reason that other classes can make more gold is because most people have multiple alts on. Yes thats true, more alts = more gold. With mainstream classes, you run the risk of dying. I know one time I was in museum with 100k on a crit.. I had just logged another crit off at the seasonal holding that gold and I was jumped seconds afterward, but a pacifist cannot be killed - it doesn't run the risk of being attacked. Also, with a pacifist... that 50k that you spend on a key can last forever. I know my pacifist has been sat in the museum for practically 4 months with gold on it. 50k = nothing when you have the capability of making millions. Plus they don't have to bother with refilling on mana and buying another key.

[Bean]

So your people are griping because you cant get at the classes gold??

God...

[Charon]

*Charon shifts about awkwardly and clears her throat*
*Charon looks at the date*

Yippee, someone finally got around to starting an 'I dont like pacifists' thread... I have to admit I thought it would have happened long ago though.
How I've longed for one of these >.<

Although I'm actually glad to see that there are so many people being reasonable about pacifists

*Charon has hope for the world* ^^

Now... I warn you, I'm the queen of long posts.
Sorry people... but you'd best prepare to start scrolling

Untouchable- for one, your grammar is awful. It would be a lot easier to answer you if you'd at least put a few fullstops in there :s

i dunno maybe the ppl who live on paccy's will stick up for them but thats wat their naturally going to do

Yes, I'm a pacifist user. My first crit was a pacifist, my pacifist is my forum name. Theres no point me trying to argue otherwise

I do feel the urge to stand up for pacifists. I like the idea of having pacifists in game. It's something a little more unique than the regular combination of fighter/mage/cleric you find in so many other games

well ill be blunt.. pacifist are for people who cant fight on reuglar alts.. plain and simple..

Just because I use a pacifist does not mean I have no other alts. I personally think it would be pretty hard to find someone who only had a pacifist, or pacifists, in their account. Great though I happen to think they are, even I couldn't play one 24-7-365

I don't only use a pacifist. I use other alts. And I work hard on those other alts. You can't just make a blunt statement like that. It's simply not possible to say that people with pacifists don't work hard and put effort into the game

well ill be blunt too.Fighting with loads of alts is for ppl with no skill.:)plain and simple

Because of my pacifist, I've convinved myself its possible to play this game with few or no alts... and I dont just mean when I'm a pacifist.
I can honestly say that you will never find me with more than two alts on at a time, and even thats rare. Most of the time I use one. Time was that wasnt true. I used to use six. Times change

Yes, I may never beat the 'big bosses' without finding another persons team of alts or a group of friends that I can tag along with, but I'm fine with that. By training alone on 'mortal' crits, I force myself to make more friends, I teach myself to cooperate instead of hang around with a team of alts to pk some unsuspecting person out of boredom

Okay, I've also taught myself to be a coward and run damned fast to stop myself getting needlessly slaughtered, but I think thats all part of the 'skill'

its stupid to sit on a paci al day its like a waste of time when u can be having fun on ur alts killing ppl or training

That's your opinion. You just happen to enjoy pking... I, alternately, might happen to like being helpful considerate and peaceful (I may also sound incredibly fake, but please excuse that)
Just because you think its 'stupid' doesn't mean other people shouldn't get to do that if they want
I could quite easily say: 'I think its stupid to pk people when you could be having fun being helpful on a pacifist'
If I happened to think that (note the if), I wouldn't have the right to ask for your pking classes to be altered. Just because I might happen to think its stupid doesn't mean all your pking classes should be altered. You would disagree with me. Many people would...

Noone is forcing you to use a pacifist and not pk. You have the choice. If you would rather have fun pking, you have the choice to do that
Why should pacifist users not have the same chance to explore or make money?

That said... pacifists have their limits. If you take a pacifist into Harabec Dungeon, it will get slaughtered. There are many things down there which can kill it. I know, I've taken my pacifist to say Hello to most of them ^^
Pacifists can be hit by monsters And there are a great number of monsters a pacifist cant kill to save itself. Pacifists are not immune to attack.
A good ranger can hypno and drag some particularly nasty, alive, monsters to a pacifists square if they so choose
In the museum, countless times Arrowheads have been dragged down (either accidently or on purpose) to the MAS floor. Those things have a real bite if you happen to get stuck with them.

Pacifists... while they have a large degree of immunity (which I like!) are not completely immortal, which is part of their charm. It's that whole 'tactics' thing again ^^

Maybe if jz used all you mana and only lasted 5 mins or something just change em so they aint so f******  annoying

This... would make JZ unusable. As it is it drains mana, and can be particularly annoying if you end up healing or fighting at the same time as you have it cast
(frequently when I cast it to help people log in the museum, I find MAS' being dragged into my square to make me use mana faster)

I think Squee's comment is a good answer to that idea too:

Oh no. Not a class you can't PK. Really, my heart goes out to you

A coupla people you cant pk and you start to feel hard done by? Don't I just feel terrible. I think the blanked out swearing makes me feel a little more hostile than normal though. Perhaps you could tell me where you pk and I'll introduce you to my JZ... I have the sudden urge to throw a spanner in your works at some point in the future. People are lucky... they've never met me when I'm being 'f****** annoying' >.<

[Pacifists] take down jz to kill a few ppl and then putting it back up

The stamina required makes it somewhat impossible to do this. Even if you wait until the attacks are done to take JZ down, the 'enemy' crits will get some of their attack stamina back before the pacifist gets the five stam needed to recast JZ.

Time was, I could honestly say I'd never used justice zone dishonestly, but I'm sure you (deadman) might then point out to me the incident where I cast justice zone whilst hidden by a mage
That was, admittedly, sneaky and dishonesty... I've never done it since ^^

The only time I use JZ now is to help people log on... or as a knee-jerk reaction when a party appears from nowhere and starts pking people I'm talking to.

Then we move onto this whole money thing.
Alts make more money. 'There's more risk' you cry... perhaps. But that seems to be what you 'non pacifist users' like about your non pacifist crits, so how can that be an arguement? You can't like the risk and at the same time complain about it... >.<

So your people are griping because you cant get at the classes gold??

God...

I think that sums up my views on that point quite perfectly as well ^^

Paccis r enoying and bored 

You find pacifists boring? Noone is forcing you to use one.
Now you may find them annoying... Other people have given reason. Do you care to say why?

Do you find pacifists annoying because you can't kill them? They can't kill you either, so lets assume its not that

Do you find pacifists annoying because you get killed by them?
Their green now, they stand out. I'm sure that you arent the kind of person to go around attacking the nice green pacifists, so I'll assume that isnt the reason

Do you find pacifists annoying because they can make money easily? Well you can make money with other crits too... so lets assume its not that either

Do you find them annoying because they stop you pking other people?
Now this may one admittedly may annoy you - but it is a pacifists purpose to prevent violence, so a pacifist should have the right to save people.
That said, even if a pacifist has made one square safe, there are still a lot of non safe squares out there with people more than willing to step onto them...


Gaddy's addressed a great deal of the other points excellently, so I feel no need to repeat anything he's said

One last thing for now:

Kharybdis makes note of "the annoying few"

Just because some pacifists are damned annoying, doesnt mean you should tar us all with the same brush. Just because a few of them do somehow "abuse the rules" does that give anyone the right to make life hell for those of us who dont abuse the rules? For those of us who do play fair, who don't wind people up... who are nice?

Why let "the annoying few" spoil it for all of us? You have to admit, that's hardly fair!

Edited by Charon, 13 April 2004 - 11:28 PM.