58 replies to this topic

[lowmion]

The new format of all mages getting a guarenteed 8 hp's per lvl is really good,

However,

An elf mage has 18 con and gains 8 hps per lvl

A human mage has 19 con and still only gains 8 hp per lvl

It should be that the extra con allows for 9(+?)hp gains

Thus compensating for the lower intel and wis stats, as it is with other class's.

What do you all think? And can this be implemented ?

[Squee]

Nope.

A human mage will start off with more HP than a mage. There lies your bonus.

[Eternyte]

If human mages were getting 9hp per lvl every lvl that might temped me into making one.

[Deval]

I'd say superior MP, Spell Damage, Spell Resistance and lower Fizzle rate FAR outweights the few extra hitpoints you get as a human. This seems like a pretty reasonable request to me.

It might be worthwhile posting this in the normal 'Suggestions' area.
(Eternyte, might be best if you do that, you've got a certain amount of eloquence with your suggestions.)

[lowmion]

/t Squee

My Human mage started off with 14 hp's and 24 mana
What did your elf mage start with ?

/t Deval

My thoughts exactly, thnx for your support

I was going to post in the suggestions area, but thought that being a mage topic it would only be transferred here again, as has happened in the past.

If this where to be implemented, would it then be allowed to reset the human mages currently in play, so that they could benefit as well ?

And if you do post this in the suggestions area, could you attatch a poll to it as well, just to make it crystal clear to the sysop's, thnx.

[Thunderja]

I think it is only fair, an average of 17 or so hp's on human mages isn't gonna make everyone rush to use human mages.

Hmm i wonder if with the 5% more exp rule on humans would make them easier to train to arch than the extra few damage Elves do?

Anyway back to top, give them a chance at getting 9's

Edited by Thunderja, 11 June 2004 - 10:44 AM.

[Ryuku]

I was rolling a Human druid and got x/19/19/19/19/x and didn't want to waste it, so I made a mage, got 14hp and 24 mana.

[Squee]

I don't remember how much a level 1 elf mage (with 18 constitution) would get... =\

The number 12 strikes me for some reason...but don't hold me to that.

[Ryuku]

I rolled a 17/21/19/18/20/15 mage and sold it, but I'm sure it got 14hp.

[lowmion]

I'm going to post this in the suggestions area, and see if it cant be implemented.

[Squee]

I did a quick roll and elf mages do get 14 HP to start...so I was wrong about that one. ^^;

However, I don't think that human mages should get a huge advantage HP-wise. Maybe 15 HP more but I think that anymore than that and it'll just be ridiculous.

[lowmion]

I think that allowing 9 hp gains for 19 con would be fair not ridiculous,

Simply put, 17 con get's you 7 hp gains, 18 con get's you 8 hp gain's and therfor 19 con should get you 9 hp gain's.

kinda like what you would expect from the different stats.

[Squee]

I know but if human's were given a definate 9 HP gain for every level, they would get 30 more HP than elves and gnomes. With a randomization, they would get an average of 15 HP more (give or take).

I feel that 30 HP is a lot to mages and would be a significant difference for just one extra point of Constitution. Constitution shouldn't hold that much weight when rolling a mage.

[lowmion]

It would make ppl have to actually choose between the 2 races though, because the difference is so pronounced.

A 17 con mage has that same gap in hp's and there's no opposition..

Is there a randomization for a 17 con mage, so that they can get 8's?

Edited by lowmion, 13 June 2004 - 07:00 AM.

[Eternyte]

You also have to realise that with the extra 30hp in choosing a human mage, you are also forfeiting 4(approx) max dmg, increasing your fizzle rate, losing your 10% magic resistance, losing your damage bonus in the forest, and also the amount of mana you would gain, by either choosing elf or gnome.

I think the pros and cons balance out, I'm all in favour of humans having 9hp per level. Anyway, there is only about 1/2 level 30 human mages, so for their bonus they would need to be arched which would take the time.

I vote for this idea.

[Squee]

Alright, I suppose I see your point(s). Just one question...

...Would a mage with 14 constitution receive a 4 HP gain when they level up?

[lowmion]

cant say i've ever had or known anyone to keep a crit with 14 con, let alone a mage,

Roll one and lets have a look.

[lowmion]

/t Squee

An answer to your question......

Squees_Mage is a Male Human Initiate Mage. He looks normal, smart, agile, and sexy. In one hand he holds an Oak Staff and he is in a healthy condition

Race/Class: Male Human Mage., Str: 8, Int: 14, Dex: 13, Con: 14, Wis: 16, Chr: 17, Lev: 1, Exp: 1,017, HP: 12, MP: 21, Stm: 1.

You have increased to level 2, gained 6 hp and gained 10 mana points

and just in case you're wondering at lvl 1,

You extend your hand out, and lightning shoots from your fingertips, electrocuting a Drunken Brawler for 10 points of damage.

And was hitting with the Oak staff for a 2 Pod.....



And yes you can have this crit for free, lol........

[Mec]

It should be a definite 9. 2 more intelligence gets you what, an extra 5 damage maybe? 5*5 = 25 right there, then 5 more should be balanced out by the chance to fizzle. Not to mention the extra mp.

[Squee]

A definite 9 HP per level up means like 30 more HP when it's Arch'ed compared to an elf or gnome or whatever.

30 HP is a lot to a mage. It really should be a percentage. A 50% chance will still mean the Human Mages will get around 15 more HP than an elven mage.

[Thunderja]

Squee is right, a certain 9 is not a good idea, the chance of a 9 is and with the extra 5% exp gain would make the playing field about as even as it should be.

[Eternyte]

Whats the difference in doing 25/30 more damage, or having 25/30 more hp. It balances out perfectly. Exluding the loss of mana and extra resistance and extra fizzle rate, which should throw the certain 9hp per lvl into undesputed territory

[lowmion]

So you all basically agree that the 19 con should be used on human mages ?

Just that there's disagreement about whether or not the gain should be a definite 9 hp gain or a possible 9 hp gain.

So to iron this out and make it clear, can you all post:

(1) yes/no support 9 hp's

(2) yes/no definite 9 hp gains

Hopefully then the sysops can give a veiw as to whether this will/wont be implemented.

Thnx

[Squee]

Whats the difference in doing 25/30 more damage, or having 25/30 more hp. It balances out perfectly. Exluding the loss of mana and extra resistance and extra fizzle rate, which should throw the certain 9hp per lvl into undesputed territory

I just don't think it should be a definite thing. This is like me saying that all Elven Mages should get a definite 14 mana every time they level up because of their 20 Wisdom. I'll agree that a Human Mages should be a little more "hearty" than other mages...but there is always the certain Human that's a little more frail than others and there's always that Elf that is a little more well-built than others.

If it were a percentage, this kind of variation would be reflected.

[Eternyte]

Yes can't have fixed hp per level up for 18 cons, and not have it for 19 cons it makes it very unfair. The variation with mages is within their mp, plus all the other reason's I've already stated.

Perhaps Pandilex would like to take this on board, and create a level 30 mage with 285hp ish, and test it against various classes and other mages to test the discrepancies.

[Mec]

I vote YES 9 hp, and YES definite.

Look Squee, a Mage at arch can do 25 more damage, and has a fizzle chance which balanced out the 30 hp. PLUS it has extra mana, AND a fizzle chance. It's totally fair. What's not fair is that a human mage has NO advantage over an elven one EXCEPT that it can have one more strength. 30 more HP would be fair!
Not 15 hp, 30. It's pathetic if you get 7 7 7 7 7 7. . . for a 17 constitution, 8 8 8 8 8 8. . . for 18 constitution, and 19 lends 9 8 9 8 9 8. . . advantage.

[Mec]

Squee is right, a certain 9 is not a good idea, the chance of a 9 is and with the extra 5% exp gain would make the playing field about as even as it should be.

I'm afraid not. Mages get 5% more damage inside a forest, and that balances out the 5% more experience, the race balances are even.

THe constitution gains are NOT!

[lowmion]

/t Squee

set hp gains for set cons means just that,

if you only like a 19 con crit to maybe have a chance at 9 hp's, then it should also be an 18 con crit has maybe a chance at 8 hp's by the same percentage, which would effectively undo the whole mage upgrade thing.

and by the way human's arnt the only 19 con crit's that can be mages,

half elf's might also make a reappearance as a prefered mage race if this was brought in, thus keeping the whole diversity thing happening instead of every-one only using gnomes and elf's.

/t Eternyte,

So do you have any idea's as how to get a staff response/opinion for this topic ?

[alone]

I doubt it'll be changed, otherwise JLH will have to allowed every Human Mage to resettable, once again..

[lowmion]

How many 19 con mages are there in the game?