45 replies to this topic

[brewcrew]

Ok i know its gona seem like i am QQ'ing and in a way i am so i will concede that at this point. If you don't already know drow archers have been "fixed", what way do you ask? Staff has seen fit to change the spawn rate. I do not know what the spawn rate on them at the moment is but it was just what i was told.

The reason the mobs were changed was because of "druids power leveling", and the argument will go " druids can sit up there all day and make xp/ gold without having to worry about pks" - true but druids were designed exactly for this reason, PVP they are good but only 1 v 1 and it takes forever. They are designed to be "in touch with nature" so why would they not flourish in any area far away from a "village or town". Also this change was made to tailor to a certain player (aka me) as im the only one who uses tirantek anymore. To me it this is punishing players for finding resolute places to train, mapping areas, exploring and finding that "spot" where you can train peacefully and without worry, it is not like i am going into a "class restricted area" to hide away from pks. ANYONE can go up there and pk me and have on occasion, is it hard to get there? Yes, but that is why the area is worth going to. If this was a problem with "power leveling" then change the PoD on drow archers, not the spawn time. You are punishing players for being resourceful, and thinking outside the box even though you try to promote it. If u change this area why would u stop here, it seems to me that you want all players to always be in PK Heavy areas instead of exploring in the game. I trained a druid exactly for this reason, versatility, without it druids are worthless it seems to me you are punishing 1 player for their class choice and resourcefulness. The spot was not abusing game mechanics, it was not class restricted area, tell me what place is safe? If i move out of my area and find another secluded area what stops you from changing it? Being a druid you are going to be able to camp alot of places, making alot of gold on 1 screen of mana and making quite a bit of xp so any area i go will be dubbed the same as this. And also if i was going to power level wouldnt i do it in faravar?

[brewcrew]

On a side note how is going 3 hours away from town to get to a good gold/ xp spot different than a person sitting in a class restricted area all the way to lvl 40?

Edited by brewcrew, 11 November 2010 - 12:35 AM.

[Apocalypto]

I agree. I've been pk'd there and it isnt that great of pod. The pod is only like, what, 70? Which in no way could be deemed "power training". The spawn rate was a bad way to "fix" this "problem". Sorry for going "" happy, but i find this to be a poor addition. It takes away from people actually wanting to expand on where they are capable of training, because in the ammount of time it takes to find a good spot with less POD than the dessert/misty path/faravar/ect(that will eventually be taken away) you could be training in those said areas.

edit: So in a way, Cody is right. This is kind of a punishment for thinking outside of the box.

Edited by Apocalypto, 11 November 2010 - 12:56 AM.

[Abstract]

" On a side note how is going 3 hours away from town to get to a good gold/ xp spot different than a person sitting in a class restricted area all the way to lvl 40? "

Crystal Knives were changed, due to the high gold they were sold for, while that person was sitting in there.

As new things are opened and things are nerfed, we cant keep absolutely everyone happy. The two drow archers were a very very good training spot. You would know, your account has made over 17million gold there.

The spawn time was changed, because of the incredible ammounts of gold there. As new things are added, some things will be altered to help balance the game.

The playerbase as a whole, will never be happy with any change. Some people will always feel that it shouldnt have happened.

Just be glad new area's are being opened, and people are actually working on changes to benefit nightmist on a whole. (And yes, altering drow archers does benefit nightmist,in the long run.)

Go out and find another training spot

[tehbirr]

people are actually working on changes to benefit nightmist as a whole? couldve fooled me jase as i see these "changes" and "new" areas only benefiting certain ppl

[Abstract]

How can something only benefit a few certain people, when we release a new area? Its not like ive put a name lock on anything, ever.

But i might do that now, add some deathtraps that only work if one of your alts is on them.

Yeh, thats a plan. Good idea's bill, keep them coming.

[Cadabra]

I can think of a few mobs ingame that spawn fast and give off some nice gold...

They been changed too?

[Abstract]

Shrug, im done explaining what we do to the playerbase. As a whole, you will never be happy. People will always whine, and complain.

Back to the good old days when staff didnt see fit to explain anything.

[Tietsu]

Personally seen nothing wrong with Drow Archers. Trained there for a very long time. Drop rate for bows was the only major issue, but I believe that was nerfed.


Only issue I seen with the area is that it was highly under-PKed and basically a safe haven for Druids and Paladins who train there. There are occasional PKers, but overall it's probably the least PKed area (that is used) in the game. Shouldn't be punished for that. The only reason they have that kind of money is because they stayed there for months on end golding, nearly threat-free. Druids finally had a decent spot at making gold, now the power-shift is changed back to Thieves and their outrageous gold making ability. (But we all know Cobalt Zerk > Anything else when it comes to golding. Nerf them, not the Druids. Haha.)

[Pureza]

Shrug, im done explaining what we do to the playerbase. As a whole, you will never be happy. People will always whine, and complain.

Back to the good old days when staff didnt see fit to explain anything.

rofl

[brewcrew]

stay on topic. We made 17 mil there because we stayed up all night and spent all our time training. We could have made the same gold other places probably with better exp it wasnt the mob making us gold it was us being persistant and staying up and training. Just because we didnt get pked makes our spot "broken" and "overpowered" well maybe but we are druids designed for that kind of thing and please use valid arguments on this thread.. Like i stated earlier wasnt class restricted, very hard to get to, far from town, and you could make roughly the same amount of gold/ and better xp on other mobs if u were as dedicated as us. In summation no need to change thanks for recking it for 1 person instead of fixing something that affects the whole server.


Just seems like players are being punished for their dedication and hard work. What is to stop you guys from taking away another training place because "druids make too much gold"? it wasnt the druids making it it was the players who sat up and trained and grinded.

Edited by brewcrew, 11 November 2010 - 02:51 PM.

[brewcrew]

maybe you should just delete every mob that drops more than 100 gold or delete everything not close to nightmist and open the arenas up for anyone....seems thats the way things are going... and i am not the only one who has made mass gold in 1 area, how is it different than people hitting marauders continuously or vultures or dessy or airship? oh i know its because those are pked alot....gg guys just go find spots around pkers and it will never get nerfed...YAY for exploration i mean oops.

[Horny]

stay on topic. We made 17 mil there because we stayed up all night and spent all our time training. We could have made the same gold other places probably with better exp it wasnt the mob making us gold it was us being persistant and staying up and training. Just because we didnt get pked makes our spot "broken" and "overpowered" well maybe but we are druids designed for that kind of thing and please use valid arguments on this thread.. Like i stated earlier wasnt class restricted, very hard to get to, far from town, and you could make roughly the same amount of gold/ and better xp on other mobs if u were as dedicated as us. In summation no need to change thanks for recking it for 1 person instead of fixing something that affects the whole server.


Just seems like players are being punished for their dedication and hard work. What is to stop you guys from taking away another training place because "druids make too much gold"? it wasnt the druids making it it was the players who sat up and trained and grinded.

aww why'd u edit? I liked the other post better

Also I would like to add that I support this newb, even though I don't have a valid argument. Give the kid his toys back he's not hurting anyone

Edited by Horny, 11 November 2010 - 03:55 PM.

[Crane]

There are quite a lot of monsters around Tirantek that provide good gold and aren't too hard to fight - if you can handle a pair of Drow Archers from that one location, it shouldn't be too hard to find a few Drow Warriors who offer similar gold and, as far as I know, are minute-spawn. Considering that you've explored the area for this training spot I would think that you know where the Maneaters are so you can avoid them.

[brewcrew]

that i can but its not all about what mobs offer gold up there either, its about, finding a spot then getting it taken away because they view us as "breaking the game". whats gonna stop them from saying another spot we find is "OP in the case of money" because every spot we find is going to be. Druids were designed for exploring and being away from town that being said, they make a lot of gold, as do other classes, ie.. thief, berserker with cobalt, but they chose to gank this one. Is it fair? maybe maybe not but also is it fair to have a 35+ cobalt zerk that can train solo in desert? no, were they designed for it? no. but do they do it? yes. On a side note im sure thieves have made alot more gold than us up in tirantek...they definately have the capability, we just worked hard and got ours and it seems thats not enough.

Edited by brewcrew, 11 November 2010 - 04:20 PM.

[Cruxis]

People shouldn't be able to log on Nightmist for more than an hour a day to prevent anyone from making more exp/gold than anyone else.

...

Seriously, it's about what people are willing to put it and do for the reward.

Thieves can easily make 300k in an hour or two, robbing certain locations, aswell as pissing off the next person to come along to train in that area. That's not too much gold? I say steal gold should just be taken away, they're assassins now, not thieves.

And don't give me that "thieves are for making gold", cause thieves are already for making bosses easier on clerics, easy pking, and easy leveling.

I'm not trying to turn this into a thief bashing thread, I'm just comparing to show, Drow Archers, is not that "fast" of gold, especially when a 10m item had to be bought to do it, compared to 350k for easy golding on a different class that has way more going for them.

If none of that makes sense, the following monsters need to be gold nerf'd/spawn slowed, depending on their availability, seeing as they can be way better than archers.
Modern Arts
Hedge Minions
Master Thieves (since they were referenced earlier in topic, I'll say this, even without crystal knives dropping at all, these would still be good gold, 400 a pop for 4 hits, 100 gold a round, that's actually very good gold)
Ettins
Giant Leeches
Granite Beasts
Mutant Beetles
Gardener
All(most) monsters in desert/misty path/dungeons.

I probably missed some, hate me for it.

I don't wanna hear any "high pk" area crap, cause no area is a high pk area if you're not stupid. I haven't been pk'd in RG or HM the last 1m+ gold my acct has made in those areas.

I don't train on archers, never have, never will. Oh wait, staff have to think players are always being bias anyway.

Edit: Playerbase will always whine..lol
I saw no topic with mass people complaining about too much gold being made there, was it simply one person spending their staff brownie points or a random statistic decision?

Edited by Cruxis, 11 November 2010 - 04:57 PM.

[brewcrew]

Now superiour mana crystals available in TTK....stupid the mana is overpowered and u remove training spots for that? DUMB IDEA ...remove the mana and make it back to what it was... if that was your reasoning for doing it... Lodestones are not allowed to be sold there so lets make a better crystal and put it there....great logic

Edited by brewcrew, 11 November 2010 - 05:01 PM.

[Freek]

" On a side note how is going 3 hours away from town to get to a good gold/ xp spot different than a person sitting in a class restricted area all the way to lvl 40? "

Crystal Knives were changed, due to the high gold they were sold for, while that person was sitting in there.

As new things are opened and things are nerfed, we cant keep absolutely everyone happy. The two drow archers were a very very good training spot. You would know, your account has made over 17million gold there.

The spawn time was changed, because of the incredible ammounts of gold there. As new things are added, some things will be altered to help balance the game.

The playerbase as a whole, will never be happy with any change. Some people will always feel that it shouldnt have happened.

Just be glad new area's are being opened, and people are actually working on changes to benefit nightmist on a whole. (And yes, altering drow archers does benefit nightmist,in the long run.)

Go out and find another training spot

Not to bash or anything, but why when people have a discussion about a topic instead of discussing the topic you link it to something else then try to compare it to that?


Ok, so Drow Archers were nerfed because they yield to much gold compared to there 70 pod. Alex has already posted other mobs that drop better or the same amount of gold and oh look there are some that give more exp. I don't see how this is even considered a problem. Everyone knows who trains out there and by now everyone knows how to avoid maneaters. Why is the spot so good? Because its secluded. Why is the spot secluded? Because when nightmist 1a was a pk frenzy anytime someone tried to train a couple players decided to explore and find mobs that dropped decent gold and good exp. Why is it changed now? I don't know you're going to have to tell me. Did it just now become a problem? Maybe you should explain how "altering drow archers does benefit nightmist,in the long run".

The main problem with this is that only a few people train off such monsters and they aren't gaining anything. I could make better gold or exp or hell even a combination of gold on a druid somewhere else. Choose to do it here because its SAFE.

Also, you say go find a new spot. Whats the point? If I explore a new spot and make "17mill" training there even though im the only person to find it and use it, its just going to be changed right? Why even look for new spots and explore if its just going to be nerfed anyways?

Basically if you want to get your point across maybe instead of trying to compare it to something like crystal knives in a thief only area easily accessible etc etc etc. You should try to post specifically about Drow Archers and how they are "game breaking"

[Pureza]

Why not just nerf the amount of gold dropped, instead of nerfing the spawn rate? That's what was done to MAS when it was deemed a "problem".

[Freek]

Why not just nerf the amount of gold dropped, instead of nerfing the spawn rate? That's what was done to MAS when it was deemed a "problem".

At least MAS were used by 50+% of the player base to gold. Not two people.

[brewcrew]

still would like to point out alex's post on malok guild monsters dropping 400g per death....ezier to kill than drow archers and sooo much closer and easier to get to than tirantek

[Apocalypto]

Very good points presented in this topic. I would have to agree that this is rediculous. Two characters training to lvl 36 and 37 shouldnt make 17mill? Yet they are required to spend 10mill on tokens alone? hmmm.. call me stupid but that doesnt make the most of sense. Can also restate the popular opinion of other areas yeilding more gold, yet this was a spot you could kill until you unmorph and then go 5 minutes of being inactive and not get pkd. That is basically the only reason it was used, yet it's a problem. Get outta here.


edit:excuse me.. 12.5mill

Edited by Apocalypto, 11 November 2010 - 11:39 PM.

[brewcrew]

Yes not to mention people training and getting multiple cobalts in 1 account making a ton of gold more than what jason or i have and didnt even have to work as hard to do it.....2 cobalts lvl 37 zerker multiple 35 thieves and yet im the problem ..... doesnt sound right

[Eternyte]

Top 10 Druids Exp Wise - Neo, Prophet, Silk, Silfver_Ek, Superbeast, Viper, Menace, Genocide, Maugrim, Naois.

Main monster kills between those were - Drow Archers 56000, Granite Beast 30000, Black/Brown Bears 43000, with a few thousand spread between Sentry Spiders/Scarabs/Cinder Beast/MAS and Mutant Beetle.

Top 10 Thieves Exp Wise - Devotchka, Rush, Solstice, Hitokiri, Olodak, Hierophant, Loki, Anarchy, Exquisite, Astinus.

Main monster kills between those were - Master Thief 61000, MAS 27000, Scarab 28000, Cinder Beast/Mutant Beetle 45000

I didn't go through the Top 10 Zerk because most of those have high level thieves but in general their main monster kills were Sentry Spiders, Hydra Hatchlings, Scarabs, Cinder Beast, Granite Beast, MAS and Mutant Beetle.

As you can see from this the monster kills are fairly evenly spread between several areas used within the game, yet with all the gold being made from other monsters why was it only Drow Archers that have been changed. If something is going to be changed there needs to be congruence between those changes.

As an example:
You roll a character it logs on in Nightmist that is fairly close to most of the other towns. You start training up and you get a bit stronger. From this base town of Nightmist you realise that there are 3 towns which are exceptionally close...Arilin, Windia and Resthaven. You do a bit of research and realise that there are a few places to train very close to this town of Resthaven. You as a solo character buy your pots and head out you have so much fun training in these areas your nice and close to town, you don't have to go far for pots/mana, you can use a pub to refresh yourself for 100 gold, you can even drink from a fountain and heal yourself for free. You have now bought a special weapon, this weapon actually heals you with a % of the damage you do, you now hardly ever have to drink potions, but it's ok there is the magical fountain. You find a new area even CLOSER to town, in fact it's right underneath. You can actually hit these monsters with your 4 regained stamina at 31 and never have to heal with this magical weapon, but what if I lag, that's ok...you can even /examine and get advanced healing potions in the guild. This is epic you think to yourself, and most of the time I can even attack when I'm hidden, so I take even less damage. Win/Win!

Now Tirantek...
1. You can't get their on your own (Need to co-operate with others)
2. You can't get back on your own (Need to co-operate with others)
3. If you want to get out you have to pay 5k (That's a bit steep, just because I want to train somewhere different and need to co-operate with others)
4. Refresh at a pub cost 10000 gold. (Are you INSANE!!)
5. Tirantek is already under used in 3 years almost none of the area has been completed, the game is aimed at co-operation but since there is now no point in going there for Drows there is no need to co-operate to get there.

" On a side note how is going 3 hours away from town to get to a good gold/ xp spot different than a person sitting in a class restricted area all the way to lvl 40? "

You're joking right, you answered your own question in that statement.

The two drow archers were a very very good training spot.

Please tell me you didn't change an entire monster based on "two drow archers", what about areas which have several monsters like Rose Gardens, Spider Tunnels, Zeum and Desert where you have to move but 1 square to find another 6 monsters, plus they all have rapid spawn rates. Doesn't seem like a very well thought out change much as a knee jerk reaction. You could have simply moved a monster, increased their hp, decreased their gold. Changing the spawn rates not only takes away what gold you could make from them, but also the amount of exp:time ratio spent which all but makes them pointless to train on. Which in turn will increase the amount of people training on other areas. If I didn't make myself clear enough it's a BAD thing.

As new things are opened and things are nerfed, we cant keep absolutely everyone happy.

Agreed, however, with a little bit of though and balancing, the majority of things do not need to be nerfed, most nerfings happen when a staff member makes an area and wants it to hold the best items in game and thus renders another item useless.

The spawn time was changed, because of the incredible ammounts of gold there.

Once again, as you stated before...he was using "Two Drows". You kill anything 37000 times and you'll get quite a nice amount of gold.

(And yes, altering drow archers does benefit nightmist,in the long run.)

The only benefit I can see from this is if you are making an area that is full of Drow Archers, but then...why not just make a new monster?

You talk about characters being overpowered or weapons being overpowered, I don't want this game to turn into most others where every class is given something which is equal...effectively making them the same class. (I'm thinking more Enigma on D2 where every class can teleport)

Class balancing is about the strength of the chars in ratio to ease of training. For instance it is a well known fact that a thief is probaly the easiest char to train, then why are they the most powerful? There is no logical answer!

The classes have not been balanced properly, classes like thief/zerk have too much stamina for these 1 click abilities (discussion found Here). Thieves are either thieves or assassins, they are not both. They should not be able to run covert at all or be dragged covert. They should only be able to covert on a square that has no one on it (standfast party/clan members), they should only be able to stay on the one square covert and if they move they uncovert, if their prey comes onto the square then they deserve to be able to click it. But I digress.

In summary changing Drow Archers was a bad idea which was clearly not thought out, change it back

[Stig]

I'll have a deeper look into this - you guys have raised some pretty good points. I can't promise anything though.

[brewcrew]

aww but promises are the best....you could fix the "superiour mana" problem there by raising the price of it to 700g just a thought or just by removing it entirely....i mean they didnt even allow lodestones there why put a more powerful mana crystal there? just a thought.

Edited by brewcrew, 12 November 2010 - 03:10 PM.

[Freek]

aww but promises are the best....you could fix the "superiour mana" problem there by raising the price of it to 700g just a thought or just by removing it entirely....i mean they didnt even allow lodestones there why put a more powerful mana crystal there? just a thought.

Or not

[Stig]

Lodestones are a different "brand" to the Mt. Melior series - Superior Mana Crystals are meant to be harvested in the same way as Advanced Mana Crystals, albeit far more carefully, and being the main mining facility, Tirantek has cheaper prices for it.

Promises are best, yes, but I have to consult with the other staff and evaluate other options too.

P.S. "They", who didn't allow Lodestones in Tirantek, would be Crane when he first designed the area.

[Autek]

I haven't trained Tirantek since I leveled Savage (old Neo) to level 35. Heck, that was so long ago there were no superior crystals or anything. I can say it took me quite a while to find my way through the Maneaters and find a cozy spot. Back before Walt was banned he'd be the only person who'd come out and hunt for pks out there. It wasn't however, because he was superior to the rest of Nightmist. . . Anyone willing to work for a pk could have come out there. As people mentioned before, it's wasn't like training below Resthaven where only thieves could come and get you.

All that said, I again haven't been out there for quite a while and don't remember spawn rates etc. so I can't say anything about it aside from what I said above. I will say Eternyte's post is pretty convincing though.

[brewcrew]

Promises are best, yes, but I have to consult with the other staff and evaluate other options too.


Not to sound condescending, but is that what other staff thought about nerfing drow archers when obviously there are far more serious issues pertaining to nightmist?...i know you guys had valid reasons for doing it especially the way it looks to most people, that we were hoarding gold, but in all honesty it was just hard work. Again not meaning to sound spiteful or anything i know you guys do the best with what you have and what you are presented, i have just been upset with the whole situation wich does not allow me post without putting my thoughts or feelings into it.