45 replies to this topic

[Final Universe]

Ive noticed in the past few months alot of areas have been added to the game. Along with those areas have come new items. It is my opinion that those items have made alot of old items outdated. It is staffs argument that the old items will keep value because they are easy to get. However I believe once the new items are collected in a mass that the price on the better item will be at a price where buying the old item would be mindless. To put this in terms do you want a steak or a cheeseburger if they are the same price. No one buys the cheeseburger unless the price was lower. Another argument is that the area is harder however after many trips the challenge goes away. This acts as a handicap to players who havent visited or dont have the characters to visit it. So now you have the few players who can access the area getting access to a big majority of the items that have significant value.

Im suggesting that we stop introducing over powered items to the game. Secondly im suggesting that we think about altering the newly added items to fit into the game better.


WHAT IM ASKING OF YOU
Do's
-State any logical reason to support your answer.
-Show items that you feel are over powered.
-Show possible alterations to current items.

DONT's
- Make negative comments about staff efforts.
-Flame this post in anyway.
-Argue points dirrected at anothers post.

The purpose of this poll is to have a intelligent discussion filled with constructive criticism and come to a universal agreement on what does and does not belong in
the realm that we cherish. This means that any "nonesuch" will destroy those purposes and find this poll locked.

Edited by Final Universe, 09 April 2006 - 02:18 PM.

[Stigmata]

Why not offer alternatives on specific items that can offer variations on playing styles, instead of slightly improving them/keeping the same stats with a different name.

E.g - Mithril claws - 28 base damage + 1 armor.
Vampire fangs - 20 base damage -3 charisma +1 strength

Hawk talon would still be useful if you want to attack for more damage and get healed for more by clerics etc, blade of time would still be useful if you wanted 1 more base damage. See where i'm getting at here?

I also believe that editing existing areas to become as challenging as those added today (e.g chronos) would be acceptable, if the new items were added with the above suggestion in mind.

[Prophet]

Why not offer alternatives on specific items that can offer variations on playing styles, instead of slightly improving them/keeping the same stats with a different name.

E.g - Mithril claws - 28 base damage + 1 armor.
Vampire fangs - 20 base damage -3 charisma +1 strength

Hawk talon would still be useful if you want to attack for more damage and get healed for more by clerics etc, blade of time would still be useful if you wanted 1 more base damage. See where i'm getting at here?

I also believe that editing existing areas to become as challenging as those added today (e.g chronos) would be acceptable, if the new items were added with the above suggestion in mind.

The problem with editing old areas to become harder is that we'll end up with an entire map that requires 5 clerics to go anywhere safely.

[Sneaky]

I think one problem you mentioned before was that Rings of Defense have become worthless....

Condemned was thinking of selling them before, and the offers got up to almost 2m. Just because 1-2 players have some unique items, doesn't mean that better ones cannot be added. The value of the rares is in the fact that they are rare.

[Prophet]

Limiting the value of rares is also a good factor otherwise we end up with a giant influx of value added to the game during festive periods.

[Stigmata]

Why not offer alternatives on specific items that can offer variations on playing styles, instead of slightly improving them/keeping the same stats with a different name.

E.g - Mithril claws - 28 base damage + 1 armor.
Vampire fangs - 20 base damage -3 charisma +1 strength

Hawk talon would still be useful if you want to attack for more damage and get healed for more by clerics etc, blade of time would still be useful if you wanted 1 more base damage. See where i'm getting at here?

I also believe that editing existing areas to become as challenging as those added today (e.g chronos) would be acceptable, if the new items were added with the above suggestion in mind.

The problem with editing old areas to become harder is that we'll end up with an entire map that requires 5 clerics to go anywhere safely.

I'm talking in terms of editing areas that were desgined to be that way initially.

Chronos was desgined for mass parties of players working together, hence the really good possible drops. As time goes on, the difficulty of the area decreases, simply because people can afford to use more characters. An alt limit would prevent all this but thats not going to happen. So the only other way is to constantly edit them.

Chronos should take about 5 clerics to clear, but I'd hope for 5 people using 5 clerics. As thats not going to happen, the only other solution is to increase it's difficulty to cater for the increasing number of mass alt users.

Edited by Stigmata, 09 April 2006 - 05:10 PM.

[Prophet]

Why not offer alternatives on specific items that can offer variations on playing styles, instead of slightly improving them/keeping the same stats with a different name.

E.g - Mithril claws - 28 base damage + 1 armor.
Vampire fangs - 20 base damage -3 charisma +1 strength

Hawk talon would still be useful if you want to attack for more damage and get healed for more by clerics etc, blade of time would still be useful if you wanted 1 more base damage. See where i'm getting at here?

I also believe that editing existing areas to become as challenging as those added today (e.g chronos) would be acceptable, if the new items were added with the above suggestion in mind.

The problem with editing old areas to become harder is that we'll end up with an entire map that requires 5 clerics to go anywhere safely.

I'm talking in terms of editing areas that were desgined to be that way initially.

Chronos was desgined for mass parties of players working together, hence the really good possible drops. As time goes on, the difficulty of the area decreases, simply because people can afford to use more characters. An alt limit would prevent all this but thats not going to happen. So the only other way is to constantly edit them.

Chronos should take about 5 clerics to clear, but I'd hope for 5 people using 5 clerics. As thats not going to happen, the only other solution is to increase it's difficulty to cater for the increasing number of mass alt users.

Lol in actual fact it takes 2 :\ but I don't see the point in making it harder for newer players to obtain, thus making it only farmable by the rich who then in turn get more richer while the poor just fade away.

Edited by Prophet, 09 April 2006 - 05:12 PM.

[Stigmata]

lol. Just another drawback to people using alts.

[Stigmata]

I don't see why editing it would be a problem for new players. When i made it originally it wasn't designed for new players anyway.

Infact thats most of the problem regarding items isnt it?

Areas that were supposed to be difficult are becoming easier, simply because of the alt users and reducing prices of arch characters (again because of alt users - if you could only train 1 char at a time, how much you think they'd be worth?)

Edited by Stigmata, 09 April 2006 - 05:18 PM.

[Snoopy]

Ok well i will put in my 2 cents.
The new items are more powerfull then the old, granted.
But its a natural progression of the game, old things get out date and are replaced by new things.

The people who are most upset and whining over new items are old lazy players who are just sitting on what they have got and bearly play the game.
The fact is most of the new items are insanely hard to get makes older lazy players not get them, so they fall behind in the race to be wealthy, where as new and fresh players explore and get drops and get rich from them. Thats how it SHOULD be, you should have to keep playing and keep exploring to stay on top of the game not sit on your old items and moan everytime things are added that lowers your account value.

And your exaple ring of defence being out dated... so what - who ever has them have had a number of years of reaping the benifits of having extra armour at lower levels... and now the whole comunity gets a shot at the same thing.
Why is this such a bad thing.

[Stigmata]

WHAT IM ASKING OF YOU
Do's
-State any logical reason to support your answer.
-Show items that you feel are over powered.
-Show possible alterations to current items.

DONT's
- Make negative comments about staff efforts.
-Flame this post in anyway.
-Argue points dirrected at anothers post.

The purpose of this poll is to have a intelligent discussion filled with constructive criticism and come to a universal agreement on what does and does not belong in
the realm that we cherish. This means that any "nonesuch" will destroy those purposes and find this poll locked.

Snoopy: I see no one moaning or whining except you.

Edited by Stigmata, 09 April 2006 - 06:08 PM.

[deadman]

I agree with Snoopy.. Everytime something new comes into the game that matches that of an existing item that someone already has, they get annoyed. It's not our fault that we finally have a chance at something that we could never obtain before. So what if it makes your account value lower and you cannot sit there and go oh i got rares i can sell for however many mil. If you want to do something about it go farm the new item so that it can't hurt your rare item as much.

Before people were complaining that we never had any new areas and items in game, now that we got more staff and this is actually happening... make up your minds already either you want it or you don't.


The items are fine it helps to add balance, teamwork, and exploration to the game. Deal with it.

[Prophet]

mike..your just angry you didn't get any shinys

If you got any of them, you wouldn't be making this post

He'd be selling them for 3 times there value instead :\

[Sneaky]

I don't normally agree with snoopy but I have to agree on the old players point.

Let's take what you said to me in-game Fusion--

"I'm not wasting my time exploring the game to find the stuff, i'd rather just buy what i need."

Its players like you that shouldn't be whining about new items, you should stop being a putz and start looking ^^

[Snoopy]

mike lol

And my comments about the moaning were in passing and just my way of getting my point across, they were not directed at perticular people on this thread or other wise. i was just generalising.

[Urgency]

personally i dont care about new items and the such the only thing that bothers me about anything is the fact the the is no teamwork if your like me a nub and unknown to the older players of the game. so to sum up what i'm saying if noone knows who you are then your pretty much not going to get and teamwork or help to do anything. Mind you there are a few of the old players that are glad to help but mostly you are just called a nub or noob and told to stop being lazy and go out on your own.

[Prophet]

personally i dont care about new items and the such the only thing that bothers me about anything is the fact the the is no teamwork if your like me a nub and unknown to the older players of the game. so to sum up what i'm saying if noone knows who you are then your pretty much not going to get and teamwork or help to do anything. Mind you there are a few of the old players that are glad to help but mostly you are just called a nub or noob and told to stop being lazy and go out on your own.

As for no team work, many of the areas are damn near if not impossible for tirantek in terms of soloing, especially if you can't use 20 alts, then they are impossible.

Edited by Prophet, 09 April 2006 - 07:34 PM.

[MysticStorm]

I say just be greatful for the new areas and the new items and let it be. Have to agree with Snoopy on everything he said. I don't have the new shinies yet cept for the silver crossbow. One day, I will have them new shinies. For now, I train up to save money and make my crits stronger to go to new areas.

Bottom line, either play the game and have fun or stop whining about new stuff that pops up just because you don't want to play no more. The rares didn't drop in value. If you knew retail and appraising, you would know that the older and the rare the item is, the more in value that item will get when new and better ones are introduced into the world! The same goes for this game. The only reason why some people think that rares are no longer valuable is because you do have worry-warts that think "Oh no, my rare is no long valuable because this new item came out so I gotta sell it at the cheapest price to get rid of it so I can get the newer better item." Doesn't have to be that way and it's up to the older players to guide the ones that don't know how to take care of the rares that.

Game on, need to train to get new shinies.

[Gaddy]

I think the best way to keep from making more and more ups on ac and base damage is to use more of the options aside from base damage and armor.

IE-
Trying to balance stat mods well enough on an item.
Poison damage
Low hp leeches (2-5%-ish)
Etc.


The problem here is that if something comes out that some people will use, and others will not...we just deal with more people complaining and whatnot.
It is not worth-wild to make an area that people won't care to go to because the drop isn't good enough, and the drops, exp, or gold are the only things players in Nightmist really care to go for.

[Snoopy]

other pisiblities would include grouping monsters.. kinda like fleshy, rock, elemental etc then weapons that have large bonus's vrs those monsters - so a 29 base sword with a diamond cut edge for slicing through flesh.

dunno just an idea

[Gaddy]

That is another way---good call.

Basically it's adding the monster damage table into more things, very good idea.
I knew I'd forgotten a portion of what could be done.

[Momba]

I never understood why some are so consumed with gold and the price of items. If you play the game as it was intended to play the only prices that should concern you are the prices in the shops.

If you would invest as much time in the actually playing as you do worrying about the prices of items you would find that it really doesn't matter. You go into an area EARN the item your complaining about and the only price you have to worry about is the price of mana and lodestones.

JLH I say ignore all the complaints about the economy. Who cares what an item costs or how much gold is in the game. If a person is willing to pay millions for an item they themselves could go earn then let them.

Always the same inactive people complaining. If you actually played maybe someone would listen. If your so interested in economy spend some time working on ways to fix the US economy. Nightmist is fine.

[Final Universe]

Ok this is my story, I dont expect help but im just saying. I get maybe 20mins a day max to play during the week. Along with maybe 2 hours a day on the weekends. I log on for the first time in 2 weeks and see 2-3 new areas and close to 10-20 items that ive never seen and they all seem like quest items.I page the first person on that I KNOW understands whats going on ask for help to just get me started and he says "you can pay me 750k" and this is just for a few strokes of the keys to point me in a general direction to find these items. I page another person and they say 75k per ingredient just for info. Its to the point now that you CANT keep up if you dont go out and explore for 6 hours. This only benefits maybe 10% of our game base that has that ammount of time to spend. The other 90% is going to not want to play because others are so overpowering...Im sorry but if player base is important maybe add things that the casual gamers can play along with the hard core ones.... Definatly with NM2 on its way you cant profit if you scare away players with the overpowering ones.Mike I did say that however I say that to the point where you dont score 36 on your ACT's just sitting on your arse along with PSAT's, Exams, ect...

[Prophet]

Ok this is my story, I dont expect help but im just saying. I get maybe 20mins a day max to play during the week. Along with maybe 2 hours a day on the weekends. I log on for the first time in 2 weeks and see 2-3 new areas and close to 10-20 items that ive never seen and they all seem like quest items.I page the first person on that I KNOW understands whats going on ask for help to just get me started and he says "you can pay me 750k" and this is just for a few strokes of the keys to point me in a general direction to find these items. I page another person and they say 75k per ingredient just for info. Its to the point now that you CANT keep up if you dont go out and explore for 6 hours. This only benefits maybe 10% of our game base that has that ammount of time to spend. The other 90% is going to not want to play because others are so overpowering...Im sorry but if player base is important maybe add things that the casual gamers can play along with the hard core ones.... Definatly with NM2 on its way you cant profit if you scare away players with the overpowering ones.Mike I did say that however I say that to the point where you dont score 36 on your ACT's just sitting on your arse along with PSAT's, Exams, ect...

Or you could put your brain into gear and go check out the area thats been getting ready for release for a while now, its hardly a big secret.

[Snoopy]

and if you cant play - for what ever reason then you dont have a right to complain lol. yes it maybe requires 6 hours of searching mapping testing to find somthing... your playing a game that ususly reuires like 80 hours to arch one crit.

I was away for a year just after dungeons opend due to exams and gf - when i returned i didnt make a thread about how roa had made cr's pointless, i got of my ass mapped it out and got some shiney drops

[Sneaky]

So since you can't log on, we're all supposed to give you information?

I'm a firm believer in not giving hints/clues to anything, aside from clannies (since I usually work with them on new things). Why should YOU get told how to do things, when I/another person wasn't? I lost 100k experimenting to get a new item, and snoopy more than that-- Sleeping's lost about 500k as well.

Maybe some of your other friends have different views, maybe I'm a bit selfish...but I believe everyone should be at the same disadvantage here.

[combusta]

Ive lost 225k experimenting for 1 item aswell but i know how 2 get it now its all good

[Final Universe]

I said im not asking for help or sympothy. The purpose of my post is to prove that maybe the casual gamers(newbs as they are called on this game) are being shut out and that if our player base goes down the game suffers. Maybe add some smaller, fun, CHEAP areas instead of hardcore ones? On the same breath 80 hours to max a character isnt that much compared to other games. To say I havent put in the game time is crazy. Check the logs I spent 8 hours a day for close to a year exploring/gold making/jew trading just like everyone else. Now im a lazy gate sitter....

UNDERSTAND
Im not making this argument for my personal gain. I have no rares, no mass of outdated items (not in use), and no intentions of playing the game ligit ever again. However I know for alot of people who gave the time and effort to earn there share in this game and to give it away in ammounts never before seen is crazy. Before Ceramic javelin came out the most expensive items were no more then 1-2mil now you can go get 2 cj drops and trade up for a csotw.

[Sneaky]

Theres at least 5 ceramic javelins that people are selling with no buyers, lol. Ever hear of Gauntlets of Virtue too? Sovereign Swords? They sold for a good 5-6m back in the day...

Believe similar things happened when Blades of Time came out?