46 replies to this topic

[Walt]

As recently as yesterday, a member of the Staff Team has negative things to say about the games co-creator. I have seen this negative talk about him several times over the last two years I have again played Nightmist. I could quote dates, times, and topics that this criticism has taken place, but I am unsure as to wether or not I too would be going against the ToS of the game, so I won't. It would not take you all that long for you to do a quick search yourself though, and read through it and find out what I am speaking about.

We all know Pandilex(Simon) has had some heavy impact on the game and it's economics from day 1. Wether it was good or bad, he has put into play some very powerful items and could be gotten drops if things are planned and carried out in a team effort.

Although not everyone has to agree that his input in the game is posative, going by the ToS of the game, subjecting him and his ways by criticism via the forum brings nothing but a black eye to any prospective new players who may be browsing to find a new game to play. And if they see current staff members brow beating a creator of the game, chances are they wi ll not stay around long enough to even downliad the client, let alone play the game.

If it was a player who said such things, then that player would be subject to not only having their forum posting modified by any staffer who though it best, even if their coments are to "try" to embarass the player in question, or even go as far as a forum ban to ingame ban or worse. Yet staff seem to do it whenever they feel the need to and get away scott free.

I myself feel that if any staff violate the ToS of the forums or even game, that staffer should be subjicated to imediate removal form both staff and forum, as well as a very lengthy in-game and forum ban. Yet this has gone on, and probably will continue to go on.

[Apocalypto]

Watch out walt, speaking the truth gets you a forum ban.

[Prototype]

Everyone keeps saying it violates TOS. Perhaps it's just me but I can't seem to find the part where you can't be mean to staff. So if you got a loc on it, please let me know.


People asked an explanation why the staffer did what he did. Then they get one and it still isn't good enough? The statement was pretty valid imo, it is no secret that Simon puts things in on a whim, just recently the bugged out achievements. If the staffer didn't say why he did it, you people would cry even more.

Funny how most forum users nowadays do nothing but flame, even on character trading, yet a staffer who gives clear information about why he did what he did you want to see hang? It was nothing personal, it's common knowledge that Simon does those things.

God knows I don't always see eye to eye with the particular staffer, but he did the right thing, it should've never been there in the first place.

[Apocalypto]

We cant post our opinions of how staff handle certain situations, yet staff can do the exact same about other "staff"? That makes alot of sense. But anyways, maybe what mark did wasnt so bad; However, I think there should have at least been some reconciliation for their work to get it mortally wounded.

[IXThunderDomeXI]

God knows I don't always see eye to eye with the particular staffer, but he did the right thing, it should've never been there in the first place.

Well i didnt agree with how he did it (should have yelled or paged or something) but at the rate we were doing it we could have got 5WoC ina hour which would have been totally awesome but very unfair from what i hear it was made 2 be killed but not by 4people

[Guess]

I think the game is good as dead and the little pieces that are left are trying to just be swept under the carpet.

As for almost killing pete. Gg.

[Gaddy]

Additions to the game are suppose to be submitted via the forum and approved by the staff team before the are implemented. They generally must be approved by JLH as well.
Simon did not follow any of those processes when he altered Crazy Pete. That is why Scripto reversed the change. It is within Scripto's scope of work to prevent such alterations when they are not done in the fashion that has been setup for the server.

1-Alt has not followed this same trend. Many additions and changes have been made without consulting other staff member, and it has led to several problems and "bug" like things. The whole point is to keep things balanced and fair to as much of the playerbase as possible.

[Prototype]

Perhaps it's not a nice thing, but I believe players can't comment on staff because they never know the entire story, since you don't have access to the staff forums and have no clue about progress, reasoning for bans etc. You just hear something and go on a frenzy

Anyways, what's the goal of this thread.

Either you want to have a reason to remove staff.
Or you want to gain power that you can go on about as you please.

Neither of these things I see happening, also, does the person who was actually talked about have a say in this? I doubt he cares much.

On a side note: Trevayne rules the main server, Simon agreed with not interfering. Therefore his statement that the particular mob and drop was valid holds no merit.


P.s. Nice punishment btw lol, if we would control the forum according to guidelines and general accepted norms of behavior then we'd have a dead forum within a few days. Most posts one way or the other refer to another player in a very anti-social behavior. Saying for instance c*** instead of the actual word doesn't take anything away from it.

[Apocalypto]

So a warning before you fix it and maybe a mosh or something?

[Guess]

P.s. Nice punishment btw lol, if we would control the forum according to guidelines and general accepted norms of behavior then we'd have a dead forum within a few days. Most posts one way or the other refer to another player in a very anti-social behavior. Saying for instance c*** instead of the actual word doesn't take anything away from it.

Then the forums would be just like in-game.

[Prototype]

I'm perfectly fine with that. You on the other hand don't seem to be, always trying to repopulate it.

[SuperJase]

Asshats

[Apocalypto]

Either you want to have a reason to remove staff.
Or you want to gain power that you can go on about as you please.

Or maybe we dont want hypocritical standards for which our posts get deleted, with a chance at forum ban, while their posts are left full of the same sentiments we get banned for.

[Peacemaker]

For once i actually agree with Walt on this one, i myself was straight insulted on one of my posts on here by a staff member and the only option i had was to delete the post, as a staffer called me stupid for standing up for myself and getting banned for it. Another thing i was told today by a staffer that he could kill me ingame on his staff crit and make me lose exp and i could do nothing about it that JLH dont care and that no one else would. I believe if you make rules then you are supposed to follow them, i dont believe in the whole do as i say not as i do. I believe if a staff member can make a post about something, then a player should be able to respond whether the staff like it or not, especially if it pertains to that person or is directed right at them.

[Guess]

I think the silence proves the point.

[Prototype]

The silence proves that human beings need sleep.

You can't insult an officer, but he can call you an idiot and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it. It's because when you insult the officer, you insult the uniform. Same goes with staff I reckon.


This is all just a joke, all you guys do is insult staff one way or the other, just as you insult each other one way or the other. The underlying message in most of the forum users posts is a message nonetheless.

Anyways, peace out, idiots, yea I said it..wut wut!?

[Guess]

True, when you insult the officer you insult the uniform which is bad. But officers have a code they must go by that is laid out in print for everyone to read so when the officer isn't going by his code someone can say/do something about it. Here it looks like "oh I wear the uniform wtf they gonna do about it". Thats pro.

[Apocalypto]

Dont taze me bro.

[Cadabra]

On a side note: Trevayne rules the main server, Simon agreed with not interfering. Therefore his statement that the particular mob and drop was valid holds no merit.

Sorry... Did Trevayne tell Scripto to alter it back?



Since when cant "Admin" alter things?

I sense some Jealousy.

[Prototype]

Trevayne doesn't have to, I was merely pointing out that just because Simon said it was good holds no value on the main server. He agreed he would back off that server. Scripto on the other hand is an active staffer on it, so he has every right to correct the mistakes.

Admin can't always alter things, for two reasons in this case. He isn't an active admin on that server, by degree of the man himself. And besides that there are rules you need to follow to add/change something. Funny enough no one besides Gaddy mentions anything about that. So that rule isn't one we have to follow? Kind of selective isn't it?

And please clarify the jealousy comment, because I have no clue which way your swinging here. I'm not even a staffer on main (nor on 1a really anymore), besides that, things I'm jealous of aren't present on this game. If I was actually a staffer on main I would simply mention that the drop would needed to be handed in and replace it with something else. Which should be the goal of the entire conversation all together.


I guess I was wrong before, transparency on staff actions and decisions isn't what this server actually wants. It's just a lot more fun to complain and whine continuously.

[Prophet]

Its just another example of what I meant when the whole Pandilex is here to save the day thread came up.

Pandilex has never played main with 20 alts, throughout its various stages of development, as such changes made without consulting people who have is just ridiculous. I have no problem with him making suggestions, but follow the procedures clearly set in place.

Doing things on a whim is never going to work.

Edit: On a side-note Scripto gave a succinct statement of what happened, had he not there would have been claims of staff bias and the usual rumours spreading around.

His post was not actively made to score political points against Pandilex, but instead to set a clear message of what happened, rather than letting everyone make up there own version of events. As such I don't see how it would fall under the staff-bashing - it contained facts and wasn't a complaint.

Edited by Prophet, 05 November 2009 - 04:23 PM.

[Walt]

You are all missing the point I was trying to make with this poll/thread. It is not about Simon doing good or bad on the Main server. It is not even about main or 1alt either.

It is about certain staff from time to time flaming or worse about a co creator of the game. Jlh has said it a few times before, and most staff who have had any modding powers on the forums have "quoted" him as well.

"If you have something to say about staff that is negative, contact me via msn, email, or in game." Those were JLH's words(not exactly though) and many staffers who have reminded us of this.

Yet staff think they have the right to go on and do the exact opposite of what 'The Boss' has said.

If staff can not abide by this one simple rule set forth for the fourms, then who is to say they are not doing the same in game? (The last statement is just a rhetorical question, and bears no merit to this topic of discussing at hand. It was just an example of what could be happening if certain things are being done in one situation. Do not get your panties in a bunch, for I am not calling any one who is staff a rule breaker at this moment.)

[Gnarkill]

You can't insult an officer, but he can call you an idiot and you wouldn't be able to do anything about it. It's because when you insult the officer, you insult the uniform. Same goes with staff I reckon.

Actually "officers" get repremanded quite often and could possibly get sued/suspended/discharged for "Defamation of character" lawsuits, mostly when they do stuff like that where a bystander(or child/friend that is present) sees or where they emotionally harm a person or thier reputation to society/peers. It is usually linked with excessive force or someone who took thier position a little to serious on an arrest and tried to be "big bad officer bob" with the insulting.

Typically, the elements of a cause of action for defamation include:

1.A false and defamatory statement concerning another.
2.The unprivileged publication of the statement to a third party (that is, somebody other than the person defamed by the statement).
3.If the defamatory matter is of public concern, fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher.
4.Damage(physical or emotional) to the plaintiff.

so technically stuff like this does get bunched under the slander/defamation category and it all depends on how thick Simon's skin is and how we as peers view the comments made about him.

I think in this case Mark was just explaining why things were done that he had to do, he didnt go out and say anything like "Simon is a pedo and hates white people". All that was stated is what happened and he pointed the finger at who adjusted pete so everyone didn't run rampant with rumors and whatnot. I probably would have let them kill it once then fix it since they discovered it was so easy, but thats a staff call not ours.

as for this whole post.. since I started playing years and years ago alot of staff haven't gone by the TOS in every circumstance but expect us to... where is this new to you guys? JLH has stated staff have the final say many times over the years and its thier "judgement call" hence why they are "staff" and we aren't.

Edited by Gnarkill, 05 November 2009 - 06:32 PM.

[Prophet]

You are all missing the point I was trying to make with this poll/thread. It is not about Simon doing good or bad on the Main server. It is not even about main or 1alt either.

It is about certain staff from time to time flaming or worse about a co creator of the game. Jlh has said it a few times before, and most staff who have had any modding powers on the forums have "quoted" him as well.

"If you have something to say about staff that is negative, contact me via msn, email, or in game." Those were JLH's words(not exactly though) and many staffers who have reminded us of this.

Yet staff think they have the right to go on and do the exact opposite of what 'The Boss' has said.

If staff can not abide by this one simple rule set forth for the fourms, then who is to say they are not doing the same in game? (The last statement is just a rhetorical question, and bears no merit to this topic of discussing at hand. It was just an example of what could be happening if certain things are being done in one situation. Do not get your panties in a bunch, for I am not calling any one who is staff a rule breaker at this moment.)

First of all, the only time I have seen staff "flame" the 'co-creator' (I put in ' ' because co implies equal work, which regarding the current nightmist there certainly hasn't been.) is when he has personally called them out for actions, such as in the case of "The Unfortunate future of Nightmist". When a colleague comes out and does something like this, then surely they are allowed to respond?

Secondly, this current case isn't flaming its simply to use a cliche - Setting the record straight.

Much of the reason why this rule was brought in was due to the fact of frequent complaints made on the forum, when the person in question did not have a clue about the actual facts and was tarnishing a staffers name incorrectly with half of the truth. (Topics like "He banned me for this" when this wasn't the full story.) As such stopping people complaining on the forums was a way of stopping the staff haven't to personally explain themselves in a debate with x number of people. Staff complaining, if they have, I would view as different as they have the full facts in front of them and can therefore make proper insightful comments.

Additionally, considering the 'co-creator' has publicly lambasted them in those topics previously he can't expect them to as have glowing words for him.

[Apocalypto]

Admin can't always alter things, for two reasons in this case. He isn't an active admin on that server, by degree of the man himself. And besides that there are rules you need to follow to add/change something. Funny enough no one besides Gaddy mentions anything about that. So that rule isn't one we have to follow? Kind of selective isn't it?
Perhaps this isnt about one thing?

If I was actually a staffer on main I would simply mention that the drop would needed to be handed in and replace it with something else. Which should be the goal of the entire conversation all together.
Ya no nuts. Thats what alot of people would of done, instead of not even mentioning he was changing it. I better watch it huh, im not staff so i cant make this statement.

I guess I was wrong before, transparency on staff actions and decisions isn't what this server actually wants. It's just a lot more fun to complain and whine continuously.
Or perhaps we want transparency of actions that make sense, and pertain to the set rules.

Its just another example of what I meant when the whole Pandilex is here to save the day thread came up.
Again, perhaps its not just this one time....
Pandilex has never played main with 20 alts, throughout its various stages of development, as such changes made without consulting people who have is just ridiculous. I have no problem with him making suggestions, but follow the procedures clearly set in place.
And that has to do with staff openly calling people names ect?..
Doing things on a whim is never going to work.
On a whim, i woulda let them finish killing the boss, then i would have traded the drop for something obviously way less valueable and proceed to explain the reason. Then, the original post wouldnt have even had to surface. Who shot himself in the foot?
Edit: On a side-note Scripto gave a succinct statement of what happened, had he not there would have been claims of staff bias and the usual rumours spreading around.
After the fact. Maybe if that had been a party of five*pun* he wouldnt have made such a big deal about it /cough /cough.. lol jk..
His post was not actively made to score political points against Pandilex, but instead to set a clear message of what happened, rather than letting everyone make up there own version of events. As such I don't see how it would fall under the staff-bashing - it contained facts and wasn't a complaint.
Ok you win, its about one thing. *Not joke*

It is about certain staff from time to time flaming or worse about a co creator of the game. Jlh has said it a few times before, and most staff who have had any modding powers on the forums have "quoted" him as well.
What about when the say negative things to the playerbase? Ive seen plenty of posts made by staff that would have got me a forum ban. Believe me i know alot about it.
"If you have something to say about staff that is negative, contact me via msn, email, or in game." Those were JLH's words(not exactly though) and many staffers who have reminded us of this.
GAH JLh, pandilex mooseed eveRYTHUGN UP
Yet staff think they have the right to go on and do the exact opposite of what 'The Boss' has said.
You here a whistle coming from the distance. Could it be staff whistling innocently.
If staff can not abide by this one simple rule set forth for the fourms, then who is to say they are not doing the same in game? (The last statement is just a rhetorical question, and bears no merit to this topic of discussing at hand. It was just an example of what could be happening if certain things are being done in one situation. Do not get your panties in a bunch, for I am not calling any one who is staff a rule breaker at this moment.)

Heh


Much of the reason why this rule was brought in was due to the fact of frequent complaints made on the forum, when the person in question did not have a clue about the actual facts and was tarnishing a staffers name incorrectly with half of the truth. (Topics like "He banned me for this" when this wasn't the full story.) As such stopping people complaining on the forums was a way of stopping the staff haven't to personally explain themselves in a debate with x number of people. Staff complaining, if they have, I would view as different as they have the full facts in front of them and can therefore make proper insightful comments.
Sure.. It wasnt for someone to feel powerful. Ive been talking to staff on the forum with a little fire in my tank and after we go back and forth i get banned... hmmm... Was it because i said something wrong, or because i was right and i happened to include something that could be considered bannable?

I will look at other 6/6 races depending on price I may consider buying, but only if the price is right.

I believe he said half-elf and half-orc, not human.

I believe you are a moron.

----------------------------

That not rude for game staff to say? If i was new to nightmist, browsing the forum and saw a staffer say that to a player i would think to myself "Holy nuts, why would i want to play a game that this guy is staff on" .. In my opinion staff should have more restraint than the playerbase and i tend to not see. I see negative comments from then and premature bans because they cant live up to their responsibilities and show a little restraint.

Edited by Apocalypto, 05 November 2009 - 08:45 PM.

[Prophet]

Lol should work for the tabloids taking that last quote completely out of its context.

Also the above last part emphasises my point: What you see - thats the exact point you see half of what goes on they see the complete picture.

Edited by Prophet, 05 November 2009 - 08:52 PM.

[Peacemaker]

DJ is right about the sueing and all that. Also if it is just you and an officer you can sit there and curse him out all day long as long as you do not make any threats or walk towards him in a threatening manner and he can do nothing about it. Only way he can do anything is if other people see it and the words offend them, then you get like a slap on the wrist with a foul language ticket and sorts.

As i have stated before, new staff members need to be appointed that have not played the game and do not have friends ingame, then stuff will change for the better.

I admit some staff have been around for a while and people think they deserve to be there, but tbh i have seen lots of people that would have been better staff passed up for people that have just been here longer or were closer friends of the staff that was before. I mean we cant even get events ran anymore as it is. So why are they there? I tell you that one clan has had most the event items for the past 3 months or so cause staff refuse to make time to run the events that they started to run. Then those people in that clan get to use their special item for alot longer cause instead of prizes only lasting a week as before the rule is that it is kept until the event is ran again. How convenient that the item is in the clan of the staffer that runs the event and he never makes time to run it anymore. Again why do we have staff? What do they really do for us? I havent seen a change yet on one alt server for the good. All we get is empty promises and no news of what they are wanting to change. Why not inform us of what you are atleast trying to get done? What will it hurt? Nah instead you would rather just let the game die and be done with it, atleast thats the way i see it.

What the quest that happened? The one that benefited only a sole clan. That lasted a couple days then when other clan had a chance to finally take on boss on their terms ( as in instead of prematurely as enough werent on when they got lucky and got 4 tokens before) it ended? Shortest quest i have ever seen tbh. Not to mention for a person that has played the game they didnt take into consideration of how unbalanced the game was so that others could enjoy the quest as well. Why was it so short at that? Usually they last a week or so from my experience. Even an old staff member at times made the square of the boss nopk that way others could have a chance when the server was previously unbalanced.

Come on can we atleast try? How about some news? Future updates to come?

[Apocalypto]

I think the quest was fine. Perhaps it could have been longer, but it would have just given pandemonium more drops. We would have got a couple maybe, but the items would have been defamed of their value. Our party should have got the second kill when we went, we just made a little mistake.

Edited by Apocalypto, 05 November 2009 - 09:11 PM.

[Sausage]

DJ is right about the sueing and all that. Also if it is just you and an officer you can sit there and curse him out all day long as long as you do not make any threats or walk towards him in a threatening manner and he can do nothing about it. Only way he can do anything is if other people see it and the words offend them, then you get like a slap on the wrist with a foul language ticket and sorts.

As i have stated before, new staff members need to be appointed that have not played the game and do not have friends ingame, then stuff will change for the better.

I admit some staff have been around for a while and people think they deserve to be there, but tbh i have seen lots of people that would have been better staff passed up for people that have just been here longer or were closer friends of the staff that was before. I mean we cant even get events ran anymore as it is. So why are they there? I tell you that one clan has had most the event items for the past 3 months or so cause staff refuse to make time to run the events that they started to run. Then those people in that clan get to use their special item for alot longer cause instead of prizes only lasting a week as before the rule is that it is kept until the event is ran again. How convenient that the item is in the clan of the staffer that runs the event and he never makes time to run it anymore. Again why do we have staff? What do they really do for us? I havent seen a change yet on one alt server for the good. All we get is empty promises and no news of what they are wanting to change. Why not inform us of what you are atleast trying to get done? What will it hurt? Nah instead you would rather just let the game die and be done with it, atleast thats the way i see it.

What the quest that happened? The one that benefited only a sole clan. That lasted a couple days then when other clan had a chance to finally take on boss on their terms ( as in instead of prematurely as enough werent on when they got lucky and got 4 tokens before) it ended? Shortest quest i have ever seen tbh. Not to mention for a person that has played the game they didnt take into consideration of how unbalanced the game was so that others could enjoy the quest as well. Why was it so short at that? Usually they last a week or so from my experience. Even an old staff member at times made the square of the boss nopk that way others could have a chance when the server was previously unbalanced.

Come on can we atleast try? How about some news? Future updates to come?

Most relevant post of this thread. Very on-topic.

Side Note: There are two worlds; mortal and immortals. Some people have the best of both worlds.

[Prototype]

I have addressed these things already in the past, but no one wants to listen.

If I say something positive, like if I was building something. Then you all take it as a promise and keep bugging me about it in and off game (trust me, it's all I got when I uncloaked). If I say something negative, that nothing is being done and that staff forums have been dead for months, you forget it a week later and start asking again. What's the point? The admin is basically gone, and the staff aren't into it anymore. Take it or leave it.

This will most likely be my last post on here, I'm tired of being stuck in this useless time-consuming spiral on these useless threads that go wrong from the get-go. How many times haven't I been motivated by the start post, just until others post and remind me of why I feel like I would be putting time in this black hole. For people who are so dedicated to wanting NM to still succeed (instead of just moving on), you surely sabotage every bit of hope you got. Tired of being judged as well, when you have no clue about the wasted time I put in this and all that is just sitting on the shelve. But I reckon the other staff feel the same way, hence they've learned these lessons a long time ago. And motivation just slips away, when by creating something you make people happy for a few days, but they come back more hungry than they were before.

I'm going to pull a John. I'll be around, perhaps I'm doing something, perhaps not. But it is very rarely you'll hear from me again on this forum. Have a good time going against each other. There's more pking going on here then there is in game.