32 replies to this topic

[Sublime]

I personally think it was one of the better features on 1a, it is not nearly as easy to train an alt on the 1 alt server as it is on main, Grandmasters stand to lose a TON of exp if they die now, it doesnt seem fair to me that for those people who worked so hard to get there, have the best chance of losing it faster than it was earned.

Anyhow, please vote, and give your opinion's, i'm not sure that this post will help change JLH's mind, but who knows.

[Angelus]

They removed it because they believe you're not wasting enough time on training yet.

[Nerutically]

I belive they removed it for 2 reasons..

A. There are already lvl 36's and Cobalts..
B. Yes a grandmaster will lose alot of exp but... Isnt it hard to kill a grandmaster?

[Sublime]

Granted it is hard to kill a grandmaster alone, but, remember when you do have that title, people seem to try to kill you more and more, and there is 1 lvl 36 in game with a cobalt, and she worked her tail off to get it, i dont see why that has anything to do with the exp cap being removed though.

[Nerutically]

I was mainly talking about how the 1a server is a little over a year old and there are people already at lvl 36.. Granted people do try to pk them more but obviously losing 1.5m wasnt enough to make the grandmaster think twice before risking there life not only that but we both know that they dont die much anyways..

There has to be something in 1a more challenging then wow i got pk'd i lost 1.5m something a grandmaster can make very easly in a short amount of time..

[Sublime]

I never said there should be no exp loss, i myself voted for 3m per death, i just think losing 10 mil + exp is a bit drastic, for any level, and as your exp rises, the more you stand to lose, even something like a level based system on how much exp you lose would be a good addition, as you level up higher you lose a higher % of exp when you die, possibly starting with 1.5m at lvl 30 and raising 1m each lvl? or something along the lines of it, that at least makes it fair to ALL players.

[Äññöÿäñcë]

how much a grandmasters standing to lose now? in exp terms

[Nerutically]

I never said there should be no exp loss, i myself voted for 3m per death, i just think losing 10 mil + exp is a bit drastic, for any level, and as your exp rises, the more you stand to lose, even something like a level based system on how much exp you lose would be a good addition, as you level up higher you lose a higher % of exp when you die, possibly starting with 1.5m at lvl 30 and raising 1m each lvl? or something along the lines of it, that at least makes it fair to ALL players.

Thats how it is and was before the 1.5 cap was put on it..

And to Annoyance - Right now they lose 1.5 I think before the cap they lost somewhere around 3-4

[Sublime]

the experince system before never went with your level, it was total experience, my suggestion is at your entire lvl of 30, you lose 1.5m exp per death, at lvl 31, you lose 2.5m per death, etc, so on and so forth.

[Angelus]

I was mainly talking about how the 1a server is a little over a year old and there are people already at lvl 36..

I see that argumenyt a lot but the more I see it the less it makes sense. How in the world is getting to lvl 36 in a year fast? I don't know any other games that take that long to 'finish'. All this, we need to make it harder because people will get to the end, is bullnuts. Especially when on nightmist harder means more tedious. The primary goal on here is to make it harder or more expensive, instead of focussing on the part where a game actually has to be fun.

Edited by Angelus, 06 July 2008 - 02:00 AM.

[Nerutically]

the experince system before never went with your level, it was total experience, my suggestion is at your entire lvl of 30, you lose 1.5m exp per death, at lvl 31, you lose 2.5m per death, etc, so on and so forth.

Before the 1.5 mill cap was put on it did go with your level.. At lvl 30 you lost less exp when you died then you did at lvl 31 and so on and so forth..

[Walt]

This was originally discussed here( http://www.nightmist.../...c=26535&hl= ) and had be on and off again discued for about 6 months or so. I am glad to see this happen. Now people will have to think hard about coming back and forth trying to suicide pk.

I myself have alot to lose with this change (about 7.5 or so million), but it is the risk I am willing to take when out pking. But if you are willing to take peoples exp away, you should be willing to risk loosing a bit more then a mear 1.5 million yourself.


PS
I believe it goes back to loosing .005(one half of one percent).

Edited by Walt, 06 July 2008 - 03:26 AM.

[Gaddy]

My only problem with this is that people can still hit-and-log at things like Crystal Giant.
That's pretty unfair in many aspects...

But...there's no simple way to fix that.

[Cruxis]

So, people get hit and logged.

Lets make them lose MORE exp.

But it's totally fair, cause now the people who don't even need to hit and log, will.

Then the weak side will just quit altogether cause they lose even more exp and have no chance of doing the same to the strong people.

There's no point in making the higher lvls lose more exp if they won't lose it at all, and even if they do, all the ones who are willing to risk it, are probably capped, waiting to make gold, to lvl past 35. Some of them suicide to MONSTERS and TRAPS just to be able to gain more exp. Lets make them hunt people even more instead.

I laugh how staff think more exp loss for higher lvls is a good idea. It'll only hurt the lower levels more.

I think the cap should be 3m, that seems all the hotness.

[Gaddy]

But it's totally fair, cause now the people who don't even need to hit and log, will.

Then the weak side will just quit altogether cause they lose even more exp and have no chance of doing the same to the strong people.

Some of them suicide to MONSTERS and TRAPS just to be able to gain more exp. Lets make them hunt people even more instead.

I laugh how staff think more exp loss for higher lvls is a good idea. It'll only hurt the lower levels more.

Post like this annoy me for 2 or more reasons.

1. You completely missed my point- which was that hit and logging is a problem, and that I'd hate to see players with such cowardice being rewarded more for their lazy and tactless methods of PKing.
At least hit and run people...hit and log is for drama queens.

2. You made up a bunch of things to support what you want without any factual basis for them. Making up nuts is an instant sign that I shouldn't take most of your post seriously.



....but whatever. It is a multi-sided issue.

[Scripto]

How is it hurting anything other then high lvls? Anything under like 29 I think it was will still lose the same ammount of exp as they did before, being as they have always been set as a percentage then an ammount. And to at all honest.. the cap was only suppose to be added to multi, was added to 1alt as a mistake and that is why it was removed.

[joanna]

0.5% or your current exp when you die to a monster or poison
1% of your current exp when you die to a PK or trap

Thats IIRC how much you lose per die, its based on current exp not level (of course higher level crits have higher exp anyway...)

What i do find wierd is how people are getting L36 on 1-alt in a year, yet on multi it took around 8 years before someone got a crit with that much exp....

[deadman]

Really that happened because back then more people were all about buying, rolling, selling, and training rather then taking one 20 alt party and going everywhere with it killing bosses etc.. There was no alt limit for the longest time. Also it was a while before you started seeing parties of more than 5 running around as well. Another reason was more areas to roam to with certain levels/amounts of characters needed to do it solo so when 1alt came around people new the best exp areas.

Anyways I voted that it should be maxed off at 3mil loss per death.

[Angelus]

When someone reaches lvl 40 that means losing 50 mill exp. That be a bugger to get back.

[Throwback]

dont die, it isnt that hard, especially for anyone in pande, i have no idea why you even brought this up JP, you guess can do clericless bosses, and your worried about exp?!? Before the cap was in place and even after I regarded "not dying" as a point of pride, take some pride or choose your fights a little better.

[Snoopy]

either way... end of the day no need for more argument.

Staff implimented it - so they support it

50% of the player base support it - so its staying in

yay democracy <3

[Gaddy]

It's not as if we're such hard-butts that we don't listen to players or take in discussion, but this is something that no player really 'wants'...and that makes it difficult to buy into arguements against it.
Muchless when keeping it how it is setup is what got the most votes.

This is how the server was always suppose to be setup.
It's a single character system, so dying on that character should be a pretty big deal. Now losing 50m experience....that might be a big extreme to us, but once characters are level 40, they will be VERY strong and shouldn't die but once in a blue moon. They will hit for quite a bit and train faster than anything we've ever seen on Nightmist.
A day or two of work is what a level 40 ought to be losing when it dies...just so they do not constantly run around messing with people who 'might' have help to kill them.

[Sausage]

I think it should remain the way it is.

[Cruxis]

But it's totally fair, cause now the people who don't even need to hit and log, will.

Then the weak side will just quit altogether cause they lose even more exp and have no chance of doing the same to the strong people.

Some of them suicide to MONSTERS and TRAPS just to be able to gain more exp. Lets make them hunt people even more instead.

I laugh how staff think more exp loss for higher lvls is a good idea. It'll only hurt the lower levels more.

Post like this annoy me for 2 or more reasons.

1. You completely missed my point- which was that hit and logging is a problem, and that I'd hate to see players with such cowardice being rewarded more for their lazy and tactless methods of PKing.
At least hit and run people...hit and log is for drama queens.

2. You made up a bunch of things to support what you want without any factual basis for them. Making up nuts is an instant sign that I shouldn't take most of your post seriously.



....but whatever. It is a multi-sided issue.

Uh, I know it's a problem, did my post not tell you that..?

And okay, I've seen people capped without gold suiciding at river to be able to see their exp bar move, pking is not a problem when gold takes way longer than the exp to get. Which is why 35+ won't care about a few pks. And lvl 31-34 will, they need exp more than gold.

Infact

Keep the cap the way it is now

Make lvl 36 cost 500k increasing by 500k each lvl

That'll make it better

[Walt]

And okay, I've seen people capped without gold suiciding at river to be able to see their exp bar move, pking is not a problem when gold takes way longer than the exp to get. Which is why 35+ won't care about a few pks. And lvl 31-34 will, they need exp more than gold.

I am one of the ones who he speaks of who went into the mansion for a 40 mil exp dive while trying to gain the 2 million gold for lvling past 35.(did it twice)

Only reason I did it was because I can not stand having to /togglexp everytime I log on and off.

Infact
Make lvl 36 cost 500k increasing by 500k each lvl

I would love to be reimbursed 1.5 mil gold. But this will not happen. Plus this is not the time or place to talk about this moosing subject.

Now losing 50m experience....They will hit for quite a bit and train faster than anything we've ever seen on Nightmist.
A day or two of work is what a level 40 ought to be losing when it dies...

Agreed!
Gaining exp is sick once you have the extra stamina. The extra damage you do, as well as gain per level up makes training almost to easy. So even if you are level 40 and happen to die, it should only take you minimale one day, 2 at the very most to gain it all back plus some.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

First off this is Ryan.


First off this is completely fine to nearly everyone posting because they have a thief. Thieves are easy as hell to train. For one they can vert and click mobs, or they can get that handy dotw and go anywhere. Besides that, they have a nifty little place where only that class can go (malok guild). Hmm, guess that is all i can say about how overpowered thieves are that pertains to this topic. The exp is extremely easy to gain for this class is all i am trying to prove. So, if you have a thief this idea isn’t that bad. Take this idea for the other classes and its ridiculous.

Lets start with berserker. They are extremely hard to train and similar to a thief. They have the ability to smite through armor and berserk. Ok, considering how hard it is to train a zerker on the one alt server they should be powerful. Now for the few people that have played this class (most stay on there overpower thieves, but why not /eyes) on the one alt server know it is fairly hard to gain exp. Without a cleric, its nearly impossible. So, losing 7mill on a zerk and losing 7mill on a thief are totally different things. Zerks do however have hella hp and its to be seen weather they will get killed as easily on a higher level (which i doubt). So maybe it will even itself out at latter levels. But from 31-35 will be pretty damn rough.

No-one really cares about pally but I think they along with fighters will be able to hold there own at higher levels. That is if anyone ever levels them. But who knows, since assassinate is so overpowered. They’re high armor wont make a damn when a 7stam thief (with higher assassinate damage that before the server came out) that cuts through 75% armor or w/e hits it.

Rangers seem to be fairly easy to train because of hypno. This allows them to go pretty far out into the realm solo. Besides that they have a lot of armor. Also the only class that a thief cant rape easy.

Druids are easy to train anywhere with armor spells. Thieves probably own them too, haven’t had the pleasure of being on anything but a lvl 31.

Clerics are easy to train except for the fact that they have to train fairly close to town or with a party. Because of this you would get pk’d pretty easy.

Now to the class that gets the shaft in many aspects of this not so well thought out server. Where shall I train a mage, hmm. They are complete mana #####s, so somewhere close to getting a refresh or a pot shop. Now I can think of plenty of places to train them but whats the point. I made 6mill exp in the time I would have made 20 on a thief because I have to move around so much. Why do I have to move so much? Because of pkers. Now you will say its fair because all classes have the same chances of getting killed by players. But that is entirely false. Mages have extremely low hp even at 35. Because of this 35 thieves can click you rather easy with Aura of protection cast. I mean if its not bad enough that mages get easily clicked at 35 now you have to gain back 7mill exp too? that’s fair.

So I voted make it 3mill. In addition I think there should be a area for everything except thieves, because not everyone is going to take the boring/easy route.

Edited by XxDarkAlliancexX, 24 July 2008 - 01:28 AM.

[Äññöÿäñcë]

What i do find wierd is how people are getting L36 on 1-alt in a year, yet on multi it took around 8 years before someone got a crit with that much exp....

Aye, and then for their efforts they get twice as much stam as us, I love how this works


I think you should lose more xp the higher level you are really.. Not a stupid amount of xp lost but I think thats how it should go.


I like the idea about an area for everything except thieves..

I also agree that people do go for the higher levels before hitting lower levels (e.g. at CG, Devotchka would get targeted before Twizted would, having ten levels between them).

[Walt]

First off this is Ryan.


First off this is completely fine to nearly everyone posting because they have a thief.If I count right, shouldn't this be secondly or something to that affect? Thieves are easy as hell to train. For one they can vert and click mobs, or they can get that handy dotw and go anywhere. Besides that, they have a nifty little place where only that class can go (malok guild). Hmm, guess that is all i can say about how overpowered thieves are that pertains to this topic. The exp is extremely easy to gain for this class is all i am trying to prove. So, if you have a thief this idea isn’t that bad. Take this idea for the other classes and its ridiculous.
Your clan has quite a few high lvl thieves, maybe you should take advantsge of the Malok guild. And I myself do not train down there, but train mostly in rose garden, dessert, or in the hedge maze when i do train. Nothing in those areas are anything clickable. Look in your own backyard before casting stones at others. Come look me up from time to time, since I am slight alot and then you can pk me.

Lets start with berserker. They are extremely hard to train and similar to a thief. They have the ability to smite through armor and berserk. Ok, considering how hard it is to train a zerker on the one alt server they should be powerful. Now for the few people that have played this class (most stay on there overpower thieves, but why not /eyes) on the one alt server know it is fairly hard to gain exp. Without a cleric, its nearly impossible. So, losing 7mill on a zerk and losing 7mill on a thief are totally different things. Zerks do however have hella hp and its to be seen weather they will get killed as easily on a higher level (which i doubt). This is the 1-alt server. This is a PK server with a maximum of 1 character per user. So maybe it will even itself out at latter levels. But from 31-35 will be pretty damn rough.
Zerks at level 31+ should be harder to train imo. The damage they can do alone without spells is awsome. They also have the the option of enhancing themselves by using "rage" to hit for even more damage, hence not always needing a cleric to train or pk with.

No-one really cares about pally but I think they along with fighters will be able to hold there own at higher levels. That is if anyone ever levels them. But who knows, since assassinate is so overpowered. They’re high armor wont make a damn when a 7stam thief (with higher assassinate damage that before the server came out) that cuts through 75% armor or w/e hits it.
God_of_Death-lvl 34,; Masta-lvl 32; Corrine-lvl 33; Thumper-lvl 31; Undertow-lvl 31; Tradgedy-lvl 31. You can not say "if anyone decides to train them up, because there are 6 lvl 31+ fighters right there.

As for Paladins, maybe people would train those more if their hit rate and str against mobs where a bit better. Or maybe if they had a decent magic spell to use on the undead. Or maybe if they wouldn't get shat on by both mages and thieves, even at the same lvl or 1-2 lvls under. This class by far imo is the most unbalanced of them all.

Rangers seem to be fairly easy to train because of hypno. This allows them to go pretty far out into the realm solo. Besides that they have a lot of armor. Also the only class that a thief cant rape easy.

Rangers are balls to train at lower lvls because of their piss poor hit %. Once you muscle through though, and get that extra stamina at lvl 31 it seems to be easy sailing. I have seen many a boss soloed by a ranger(the only class I might add) after reaching lvl 31+. All you need is a bit of time, and some patience. But let's not forget how easily a lvl 35 mage can kill a ranger because they have low hp too. Time and again I have seen a lvl 35 mage round a ranger and have an extra stamina to invis to keep safe.

Druids are easy to train anywhere with armor spells. Thieves probably own them too, haven’t had the pleasure of being on anything but a lvl 31.
Druids at higher lvls have very tough armor to get through when both spells are cast. This makes druids a bit tougher to pk in the begining of the fight, and like a mage, druids aren't built for the toe to toe battles as a striking class. They also have the ability to camo and track, very good in the pking game, but they fizzle/get countered a bit too much for my tastes. Imo druids s/w even at lvl 35 is pretty weak and could use a tweaking.

Clerics are easy to train except for the fact that they have to train fairly close to town or with a party. Because of this you would get pk’d pretty easy.
With a party? Are you kidding me? You get shat xp gain on 1a when in a party. All clerics do while partied is heal the others and cast spells. I would rather by reg mana and hnr demonics and make a bit of gold and decent exp then party up and train my cleric that way. And fairly easy? Maybe it gets a bit better after lvl 25, but the tediouness of getting from 1-24 is unbearable at times. And try to get to lvl 31+, You need a good 8-10 clerics hitting a boss who not only hits hard as nutz, but also posions too. This sounds so easy of a class to train.

Now to the class that gets the shaft in many aspects of this not so well thought out server. Where shall I train a mage, hmm. They are complete mana #####s, so somewhere close to getting a refresh or a pot shop.You didn't know that mages used alot of mana before you rolled achilles, and trained it to lvl 35? That's right, you didn't do this, Jono did. Now I can think of plenty of places to train them but whats the point. I made 6mill exp in the time I would have made 20 on a thief because I have to move around so much. Tirantek seems to be an ideal place to train a mage. Very cheap mana cost in that town. There is not alot of pking traffic up there. There is also alot of decent xp mobs in the area as well. It's not my fault you have been killing butterflies, catapillers, and rats and leeches the past few days.Why do I have to move so much? Because of pkers. Now you will say its fair because all classes have the same chances of getting killed by players. This is the 1-alt server. This is a PK server with a maximum of 1 character per user. You like to try to pk, but you are not that good at it. You don't seem to complain when you pk someone, but only when you get pked. Go train up in Tirantek, it is alot safer up there. You could also try to train off of lions and lioness in Faravar. Mana is a bit more exspensive there, but the exp is awsome.But that is entirely false. Mages have extremely low hp even at 35. Mages have outstanding mana power at lvl 35, wich helps compensate their lower hp. I think that was the reasoning that was when mages were coded. Oh, and you can enhance your armor with AoP, you can also invis yourself like no other class can and run without stamina loss. You can also invis a very good pking party if needed; cleric, zerks, etc and run around destroying unsuspecting parties. But mages are useless. Because of this 35 thieves can click you rather easy with Aura of protection cast. I mean if its not bad enough that mages get easily clicked at 35 now you have to gain back 7mill exp too? that’s fair. Back to the pking thing again I see. You fail to mention that mages destroy most other classes. I think average dmge done with your beam is around 65ish on PvP. so with 6 stams, you can round just about anything. Achilles has morted me on several occasions, causing more then 400+ dmg to Hitokiri. Just wait untill you get to 2 billion exp and loose 10+ million every pk. That is gonna suck even worse. Maybe if you stop pking, you won't get pked as much. Or maybe if you were a better pker, you wouldn't die as often.


So I voted make it 3mill. In addition I think there should be a area for everything except thieves, because not everyone is going to take the boring/easy route.

Edited by Walt, 25 July 2008 - 08:16 AM.

[XxDarkAlliancexX]

ok, you replied to all the side issues... but you didnt respond to the main issue at hand... that being it is extremely easy to get xp on a thief compared to other classes and you know it... and clerics are easy as hell imo... i arches asclepius in 2days 22hours and 52minutes gametime.. but you have to train them in easy pkable area's... but ya, how bout instead of trying to disagree with everything i say you get the point. Thieves get xp way faster than other classes is the only thing i was trying to point out.. on sidenote i pointed out that the other classes are easier to pk... and no thoughts on an area for non thieve users?.. maybe magic users or somethin... i could right it up if i had reason to believe it might be implemented... and i was just screwing around on achilles last couple of days since ive been banned for a month over a petty issue..

[Walt]

I did reply to the exp issue, but it was an afterthought(somehow my posting didn't register on that issue.) And you know I have no problem agreeing on many issues on how to improve mages. I have jockied for Devastate, moved to get another stackable armor spell, maybe get beam tweaked a bit more each lvl increase. I am one of the few thief users who have said mages haven't improved like most other classes. But when you sit there and take popshots and have holes in your theories, I had to call you out.

And a side not about how quickly I get exp...I hit mobs that are 70 or 70+ PoD. I do not sit around clicking spiders or snakes or the such. Clickable mobs are shat xp and gold, and if I am going to train, I want "bang for my buck".


P.S.
Thieves are unlike any other class in which their best attack is assassinate, which leaves them sitting ducks for 10 whole seconds. Their dagger attack is pretty bad. Unlike any other class, once they assassinate, they do not have the option to move. Every other class does have the choice to use one or all of their stamina.

Edited by Walt, 25 July 2008 - 08:58 AM.