40 replies to this topic

[deadman]

Why do both gatehouses need one? Why can't they be moved somewhere that is set just for them? It gets annoying trying to move around as a thief when these Templars can spot you coming into the room nearly 100% of the time. Or at least not make them to spot thieves coming in from the gatehouses which ruins the idea of running around covertly like a thief is intended to.

[Throwback]

thats the point, the templar guards the gatehouses to prevent monsters/strangers/the unwanted from entering.

removing the templar may let the beasts in.....anyways it was only killed by emma, g i wonder why, maybe she didnt think of it at the time and i am kind of saying its a pretty big coincidence but the templar being killed certainly helps her clan out ten fold. The make-up of the currently used class in pande is thief so it being gone certainly proves to help them more. True not much in moving in lf and grassy meadow but its not hard to run to entrance of lf and coverting. The templar can stay in my opinion.

[deadman]

Ok if you want to try and play blame cards here and say Emma did it to help clan which she wouldn't do such a thing.. Then I'll throw a card too.. You begged Elf to respawn it there just so that you could see where thieves from Pandemonium were trying to go covert.

Thieves are meant to move along covertly from town to town place to place. Having something at an entrance to a town that spots them just about all of the time coming or leaving the town is ridiculous and ruins the purpose of thieves.

[Animosity]

support

[Angelus]

Thought it was 100%, I do find it annoying. It takes away of the goal of a thief. If a simple city guard can already spot you all the time. And its kinda silly having to pass it, kill the monster, and then covert.

And if you wanne talk reality about guards guarding and seeing all. How come druids can camouflage with chars/monsters/npc on the square. Camouflaging while people see you kinda takes away from the whole camouflage idea don't it... But that my kids, is a story for another time.

Edited by Angelus, 13 November 2007 - 11:14 PM.

[Throwback]

true i did, but if it wasnt supposed to be there then she wouldnt have spawned it, take it away i simply know emma killed it and left it that way for no reason at all. Whether was for fun or she had alterior motive then thats for her to say if she wishes. It's not cheating because the only advantage is simply allowing covertness. If you don't want it there I'm not going to cry all day to have it respawned like the other night. Simply was trying to stop it for time being.

Im not into whole rp thing but ive never been spotted being camo or invis'd. If there is a flaw with being covert, dont make a thief.....


just a side note, dont be lazy

Edited by Throwback, 14 November 2007 - 12:07 AM.

[joanna]

id hardly call a city guard 'simple'.... cityguards are supposed to be the best trained combatants in the entire city.... spotting thieves should be one of the simpler parts of thier job, infact id go as far as to say give them the vision spell.....

Camo and invis physically change the appearence of the casting crit, to the colour of the scenery in the case of camo, and to air in the case of invis, as opposed to covert which just implies the thief is hiding. The fact covert thieves that are not partyleaders can stay covert is a bug that has been with nm since conception, it works both ways though - thieves in a party that hit a trap lose the thief's resistance to traps.

[Crane]

I wouldn't call that a fault... when you are covert you are actively staying in the shadows and otherwise trying to keep out of sight, but well-trained guards can spot you, especially if their eyes are on the only gateway into the city. Camouflage and Invisibility, on the other hand, is true invisibility. For Invisibility, the magic stops you from being seen entirely, as if your physical form weren't there, while Camouflage, I imagine, makes you look like the Predator.

(Joanna beat me to the reply!)

[deadman]

Still having them at the gatehouses ruins a thief trying to move around hiding from people. With them there if we want to leave town any other way besides the sewers we have to be seen to do so.. that's ridiculous.

[Throwback]

that's life

[Crane]

If the Crystal Templar that guard the gatehouses don't spot sneaky thieves entering and leaving the city, I would be worried what else could be entering and leaving Nightmist... *eyes a blackguard sneaking into the city and causing havoc at the local monastery*

[Animosity]

If the Crystal Templar that guard the gatehouses don't spot sneaky thieves entering and leaving the city, I would be worried what else could be entering and leaving Nightmist... *eyes a blackguard sneaking into the city and causing havoc at the local monastery*

Then it should spot druids/mages. or anything invised using a tarma pot.

[Ryuku]

Thieves covert lasts forever, although their movement is slower, I don't feel that's a good enough reason to allow them almost eternally safe passage out of town.

I'd support this only if crits that walk on to a square with a covert thief might reveal him, aswell as a thief walking onto a square and being seen.

Also, thief is a clicker, the ONLY class capable having a full stam attack and being able to hide (again, covert lasts forever, takes no mana, and no stam to use). Not only that, besides an invisible zerks smite (being a 1 hit full stam attack, is probably why), clicking something with no one else there keeps you invisible.

Since that's possible, something I think of as a bug is also possible. A thief can stay somewhere where they can click a fast spawning monster repeatily, without ever being revealed, not needing potions to stay alive, unable to be pk'd, and able to stockpile mass gold with little effort and no fear of losing it. There's almost always a place to do this for any level before 30.

SDG for 5-13
Small snakes for 13-21
Sentry spiders for 21-30

I don't think thieves covert needs to be made any more powerful compared to mages/druids invisibility spells. Just because you are sick of getting pk'd so you make mass thieves to move around and do stuff, doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to die unless you're pking yourself.

Edit: I'll add possible solutions that will balance this idea so you can consider if you really want it implemented. And don't think I'm only saying this for myself, now that Nub is lvl 31 (or is ready to be lawl), I'm training my thief to 31.

Thieves can be seen by entering players instead of just when entering a room.
or
Thieves don't stay hidden when they click a monster or player.

Edit2: Thieves don't need to be anymore useful in what they do, infact, I think they need drawbacks immediately. If you actually took the time to lvl 35 a thief, you'd see nothing could compare except a 35 zerk. Like staff have said, 1a was not ready for immediate release, although it was released anyway. Nothing with 7stam should have a hit rate like a thief, you'd click anything 33 or under.

I got bored, and I like rambling, excuse me, I gotta go potty.

Edited by Ryuku, 14 November 2007 - 06:33 AM.

[deadman]

If a druid or mage can leave a town or enter a town because of an ability, then a thief should be the same way. If you remove it for one then remove it for the other 2 as well. It's that simple.

[Throwback]

tony. thieves are not casting a spell on themselves to covert, they are like hiding behind tree's, mages/druids are literally disappearing right in front of u........it's that simple

[deadman]

Staff input then?

[Angelus]

Druids camouflage is just like it says, camouflage. Its not invisibility, so if you camouflage while people watch it should have no effect. I don't mind how the game treats it, just stating something.

And if thieves can't covert into towns, how would they rob people and/or houses. They got their name from somewhere. Unless bunny's made up the name thief for us cause we stole their carrots.

In the end reality has no issue, should be pretty clear after 7 years. So arguments like all of these hold not much value (as well as my own). Bottom line is will it balance or unbalance the game.

[deadman]

Have to balance them up with the rest, if the other two can do so then the thief should be able to as well. The thief loses stam while running covert, a mage or a druid does not and can hit and camo/invis in the same round while a thief can not. Also a mage can do more damage with a round of beams then a thief with assassinate right now.

They should all be able to leave or enter town without being seen using their abilities that's balanced.

[Throwback]

look
stick to topic,...u want to covert and u need templar gone...its there to stop monsters from entering not stopping thieves from coverting in town. The issue is want it moved and the problem is if it's gone, monsters can enter.

[Devotchka]

I don't mind the Crystal Templar's being anywhere, it's a guard and does what a guard is supposed to do. Although, I would like to suggest, maybe it could be changed to where you can sometimes covert in front of it and sometimes can't. Being as thieves can slip by guards on some occasions.
Or it could be just where he spots you entering town and not leaving, though the ladder sounds a bit more appealing I must say so myself.

Thieves don't stay hidden when they click a monster or player.

By the way..

Assassinate ..1. to kill suddenly or secretively.

That would really take away what an assassin is.

[Hustle]

well, the way i see it no offence but its bs about the monsters not coming into town, lol isnt like they going to ride right on in soon as we remove the guard npc, lol hell ive seen the same old msg (you cant do that guards are everywhere) but i dont see em? so whatever, i do see everyones points but angelus is right, what has the most balance?

i vote that it doesnt spot thiefs anymore, or it has a % chance to spot any class that is covert/camo or under invisilibity threw spell or tarma potion.

say a thief % is lil higher considering the guards are more prone to catching a thief, and a druid next in line considering camouflage can be seen, lol your not invisible just camo, and then mage with least % considering they're completely invisible

or you can switch them totally backwards if you would consider that the guard cant see any you anyways and only can hear you at times, then thief would be hardest to spot, druid next considering they're more prone to phyical strength(i guess can move they're bodys more smoothly? lol) and mage last.


well thats just my long overrated opinions lol

[deadman]

Exactly put it gets annoying for people to say oh the monsters can come in.. thats NEVER going to happen unless a staff makes it happen. It should be made that thieves, druids, and mages can come in and out of towns without being spotted. As of right now only the thieves are being penalized by this the other 2 can do it already = unbalanced. So for thieves to be able to do it as well = balanced.

[EvilDognapot]

It only spots theives that aren't particularly stealthy. Besides, what about the NPC's in arilin, and windia? Why does two NPC's in NM get all the attention?

Also, isn't there a difference between magical duration spells, and a physical skill? I wouldn't call it unbalanced, maybe unskilled.

[Gaddy]

I don't like the Crystal Templar because he brought the Magimoxies...and I have never liked them.

[Throwback]

the thing is its a ROLE PLAYING GAME, so know your role and covert outside of town

[deadman]

LoL Why just because MD can do it on mages so they can more easily spot us before dying? That's the only excuse i've really seen tossed by you.

But honestly a good point was proven here and that it would balance to have all classes be able to do it.

So can we have staff input that is about the topic and supporting or unsupporting?

And I mentioned the templars because they are at the actual exits, but yes it should be all towns.

[Throwback]

LoL Why just because MD can do it on mages so they can more easily spot us before dying? That's the only excuse i've really seen tossed by you.

And I mentioned the templars because they are at the actual exits, but yes it should be all towns.

not once have the letters MD been said in any post by any person on this thread until now, I have not once said no because it hurts my clan, i simply keep pointing out ur 10 IQ. Fine make templars at everytown so thieves can't covert, clearly this tony supports because it balances out every town.

[deadman]

Lol you are completely missing the idea and trying to be smart about it and crack jokes.. All it makes it seem like is you are trying to do what benefits you while we are trying to see what benefits the game.. Make posts with meaning not ones trying crack unfunny jokes.. This forum is for suggestions and for rebuttles..

So to the staff, what are your thoughts?

[Throwback]

i have been serious and i have rebuttled every attempt u have made at a good arguement. why need staff input when clearly your arguement is weak

[Angelus]

Doesn't need to be said. Ofcourse you're keeping your own clan in the back of your head with your arguments, only natural.

It's purely a matter of opinion, though and arguing about it won't make a difference. Both outcomes wouldn't unbalance or balance the game, it's to minimalistic to be of influence.

Anyways I can see the reasoning behind why the 100% spotting should be changed. But I don't see why anyone would actually be against it, it didn't used to be this way in the long long ago So why is it there in the first place, just change the 100% uncovered to a more realistic number and be over with it.